Administrators Ferrariman Posted August 18, 2020 Administrators Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Ok, it also made me wonder because he said it was 1978, so not relative to Vice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRemington Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) “Victims of Circumstance” is one episode I can’t watch again. The plot is just tasteless to me, killing Holocaust survivors? Even though it’s fiction, it’s very insensitive and in very poor taste. NBC should have banned this one. What did that episode have to do with Vice? I only watched it only once about five years ago... Made me sick. On a lighter note... I couldn’t stomach watching “Miracle Man” again either. Maybe it’s not as bad as I remember, but just couldn’t do it... Maybe another night. Edited August 18, 2020 by AndrewRemington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 The name Klaus Barbie ring a bell? Granted he was grabbed in 1983, but there was a wave of interest in finding and convicting old SS personnel around that time which carried into the early '90s. I suspect they were trying to be "topical" again, and that seems to have issues when translating to later audiences. Also, at some point in the show the characters transitioned from Vice to OCB (Organized Crime Bureau). It's never made especially clear when this happened (I'd say sometime during Season 2, but it could have been earlier), but that shift explains the wide range of cases they started picking up (at least from a canon plot sense). OCB and Vice were two distinct units in Metro-Dade, along with Narcotics and Homicide. Given the average case focus, Narcotics would have been a better fit for the lads, but "Freeze, Miami Narcs!" just doesn't have the same ring to it, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robbie C. said: The name Klaus Barbie ring a bell? Granted he was grabbed in 1983, but there was a wave of interest in finding and convicting old SS personnel around that time which carried into the early '90s. I suspect they were trying to be "topical" again, and that seems to have issues when translating to later audiences. It’s not over, even now. Check out their WSJ story from a month ago! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/former-nazi-camp-guard-convicted-in-germany-11595522320 It’s maybe not as “topical” as we think? Edited August 19, 2020 by pahonu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, pahonu said: It’s not over, even now. Check out their WSJ story from a month ago! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/former-nazi-camp-guard-convicted-in-germany-11595522320 It’s maybe not as “topical” as we think? History is one of my specialties, so I'm aware it's not over. But in terms of television and popular culture, it certainly was topical at the time this episode came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: History is one of my specialties, so I'm aware it's not over. But in terms of television and popular culture, it certainly was topical at the time this episode came out. That was not a comment on your personal knowledge. Sorry if you felt that way. I was simply pointing out that, while it may certainly have been topical in the 80’s, it has been an ongoing issue in the post-war years, and remains so today. Another poster commented that they felt the episode was in poor taste and should have been banned. I disagree and feel keeping the conversation going is vital. Even if many feel it is over, it clearly is not. For what it’s worth, I’m a part-time history professor and full time social studies teacher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 Usually if I say something's topical here, it's more in reference to popular culture at the time or certain events that may have resonated with the audience in the '80s (Free Verse springs to mind) but don't have as much traction now. I also never said the conversation should end. I'm actually happy NBC aired this episode, along with God's Work and the oft-maligned Amen...Send Money. All three spoke to things that either weren't mentioned at the time or only came up in passing. As I've said elsewhere, it's somewhat annoying that Evan gets all the push for talking about homosexuality when God's Work was far braver in the context of the times. I don't think people who didn't come of age in the '80s really understand just how groundbreaking that episode was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: Usually if I say something's topical here, it's more in reference to popular culture at the time or certain events that may have resonated with the audience in the '80s (Free Verse springs to mind) but don't have as much traction now. I also never said the conversation should end. I'm actually happy NBC aired this episode, along with God's Work and the oft-maligned Amen...Send Money. All three spoke to things that either weren't mentioned at the time or only came up in passing. As I've said elsewhere, it's somewhat annoying that Evan gets all the push for talking about homosexuality when God's Work was far braver in the context of the times. I don't think people who didn't come of age in the '80s really understand just how groundbreaking that episode was. I very much agree with you that God’s work was more daring in its content than Evan, particularly dealing with the character directly. I too became an adult in the 80’s and both episodes were powerful in that time. I also agree that Amen... Send Money was perhaps the most topical episode of the 80’s given the televangelism and associated scandals of that decade. It was not you that I believe wanted the conversation ended, but another poster. I simply wanted to emphasize that the conversation about the Holocaust shouldn’t be ended or judged to be in poor taste no matter how long ago it was. It was topical in the 80’s, very much before, and should be still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRemington Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 My whole point of disgust is killing Holocaust survivors. That breaks my heart someone would write a story like that. They already survived an unimaginable, horrific ordeal and then get targeted again? That is what was distasteful for me. I think they could bring up antisemitism without killing Holocaust survivors. Antisemitism is very real and still a big problem in the world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 AndrewRemington, while I agree with Pahonu that the Holocaust and antisemitism remain important and significant topics in our world today, I also feel your point is well-taken. It's difficult to take such a serious and grave topic and use it to drive what is basically entertainment (i.e. an hour-long television show). I think it can be done. The history is important and must not be forgotten. Books, movies, TV shows, art, and music are some of the ways artists have responded and attempted to prevent future repetition of the Holocaust. Movies and TV (in our world today) are major venues for reaching people and shaping their hearts and minds. But different viewers, who come to the topic from different bases of experience and personal history, may not all receive or interpret it in the way intended by the author/filmmaker, etc. And of course, sometimes the artistic vision or execution falls short, or is subverted by commercial considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 14 hours ago, AndrewRemington said: My whole point of disgust is killing Holocaust survivors. That breaks my heart someone would write a story like that. They already survived an unimaginable, horrific ordeal and then get targeted again? That is what was distasteful for me. I think they could bring up antisemitism without killing Holocaust survivors. Antisemitism is very real and still a big problem in the world. I understand your point. If we look at it closely, it is really an episode about white supremacy/white nationalism and a psychopathic daughter really. The Jewish population is a frequent target, thus the storyline. I can’t say from memory that killings like it have occurred in the past, but it certainly does highlight the depths of anti Semitic beliefs that do exist here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushido Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) The BEST list is quite good! DEFINTELY MIAMI has always been the consensus pic for definitive episode. BUSES was the top pic by TV GUIDE. DEBTS was the cream of season three and critically acclaimed. EVAN and BLUES are classic eps also. THE GOOD COLLAR would be in my TOP five but otherwise quality choices! Bruce Marshall Edited September 17, 2020 by bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 My top 5 favourite episodes from the show are: 1.Freefall (my favourite episode, idk why, but this has something special and had a lot of work put into it, and combines the best elements of MV, minus good music) 2.Deliver us from evil (I always loved this one, dark, emotional, good music, good ending, pretty much everything) 3.Forgive us our debts (had a strong emotional side, good drama, decent music and plot and is related with Deliver us from evil) 4.Definitely Miami (the most iconic MV episode imo, it had A LOT OF style, good plot, magnificent ending, good music and other minor aspects) 5.Brother's Keeper (the first MV episode, combined all great elements of the show, with the only downside being that it had some weaknesses) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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