Is this MV BluRay Box worth a 180 bucks?

[Noogman03]

I recently realized that I still dont own a DVD/BluRay collection of the series. But summing up the "cheaper ones": Theyre bullshit. Poorly edited, a lot of scenes are missing and the visual quality is not the best either...  :(

At this moment Im thinking about making a bigger investment; a collection that costs a 180 bucks and seems pretty solid, it also says "uncut" in the description. Apart from that it also includes some other special Features...

Thats it:

https://shop.kochfilms.de/de/miami-vice-complete-ultimate-collection/miami-vice-complete-ultimate-collection

Do you think such a purchase is worthwhile?

Edited March 29, 2021 by Noogman03

[ViceFanMan]

I bought each of the official original Universal DVD sets as they were released for each season. They are very good visual quality and digitally remastered...as I assume the Blu-Ray set is as well. However, both used syndicated rerun versions for the episodes...so some scenes are probably edited from the original airings, and some colors/lighting are for some reason altered or changed—such as for Seasons 3-5, the reruns (and ultimately DVD & Blu-Ray sets) changed the logo colors to this ugly, un-MV like dark green & purple combo.   But, that’s what’s officially available...something is better than nothing. 

[Paul K.]

From what I read, the Koch box set is the best one so far! The one with the most attention to detail.

For comparisons, please feel free to check out the following thread:

 

Here are some of the comparisons:

DVD release vs. Koch Bluray:

Elephant Blu-Ray vs. Koch Blu-Ray

 

And the Koch adjusted intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2suaYwoXzM.

 

[ViceFanMan]

However, is that a German DVD or Blu-Ray set? If so, I’m assuming the same versions were used for it, too...but I’m not sure?

[ViceFanMan]

5 minutes ago, Paul K. said:

From what I read, the Koch box set is the best one so far! The one with the most attention to detail.

For comparisons, please feel free to check out the following thread:

 

Here are some of the comparisons:

DVD release vs. Koch Bluray:

Elephant Blu-Ray vs. Koch Blu-Ray

 

And the Koch adjusted intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2suaYwoXzM.

 

Cool!  You can tell a difference with Gina’s dress, but the club scene looks the same to me. However, it looks like the Koch set still used the syndicated reruns for the episodes...as the “fake” purple & green logo is used in the intro. 

[Paul K.]

8 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Cool!  You can tell a difference with Gina’s dress, but the club scene looks the same to me. However, it looks like the Koch set still used the syndicated reruns for the episodes...as the “fake” purple & green logo is used in the intro. 

The club scene is corrected to have a little bit more contrast! You can see it especially well when you focus on the neon in the background.

I believe that the intro might be related to the masters. I found the following summary of the different versions in the attached thread:

 

"Yeah, basically they first came out from Mill Creek US as DVD and then on Blu-ray. Over time people started spotting various errors with Universal's source masters, many of which Mill Creek got corrected.

The same masters then came out in the UK from Fabulous without any assurances on those corrections and with incorrect video levels which killed lots of information and detail in the darker parts of the image.

Then Elephant came along with the corrected versions as per Mill Creek, but crucially they put the original audio on there in lossless 24bit quality, where the Mill Creek only had it lossy and the UK didn't have the original mixes at all.

The French has some exclusive extras and they also went to great pains to secure French language options - even including a fondly remembered original French VHS dub. And of course their asking price reflected that extra work - they did more on it than anyone else on the market then and time is money.

And all of that also applies to Koch Germany who have also done extras and German language options for their market, lossless 16bit remix and original audio, and also some work on presenting the video masters better than any of the others, see here. And of course that comes at an even higher asking price than the previous releases."

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Paul K.

[Ferrariman]

This to me looks like the usual "let's release another version because we know people will buy it"   Movies have been doing this for years. They continually re-release movies with "an extra 10 seconds of deleted content!"  or some other gimmick to pick our pockets.  I could never justify $180 (or even half of that) just because the shade of Gina's dress was just a little bit sharper. 

I have the original broadcasts from the 80's on VHS.  All 1st airings. I've watched them 1000 times and I can guarantee you the scenes that are missing are minimal at best. A few seconds out of 2 episodes is all that's missing and unless you've watched them 1000 times like I have, you won't even notice. So is it worth it? In a word, no.  Save your money.

[Tom]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Noogman03:

I recently realized that I still dont own a DVD/BluRay collection of the series. But summing up the "cheaper ones": Theyre bullshit. Poorly edited, a lot of scenes are missing and the visual quality is not the best either...  :(

At this moment Im thinking about making a bigger investment; a collection that costs a 180 bucks and seems pretty solid, it also says "uncut" in the description. Apart from that it also includes some other special Features...

Thats it:

https://shop.kochfilms.de/de/miami-vice-complete-ultimate-collection/miami-vice-complete-ultimate-collection

Do you think such a purchase is worthwhile?

I have the Koch set myself and I was a little bit involved in the final production process as I helped a friend of mine to restore the best German audio for all episodes (I provided my old tapes).

Thus, I can say this box is the ultimate set in all respects: video quality (complete new scan from the original Universal master with lots of corrections, e.g. wrong gamma shift on earlier releases). They even fixed some bugs on the original Universal master, e.g. dropped frames on El Viejo at the end and dropped audio in "Sons and lovers"! The picture quality, sharpness and natural colors is groundbreaking. I add a picture here that I made with my mobile (sorry, I had no other chance than to just photograph it off the TV screen) to illustrate the colors. But I added the normal version from Amazon Prime (HD) in comparison that comes from the same shitty old Universal HD master scan. @FerrarimanI would say that comparison says everything? 

For the first time you can see how great the colors and visuals really were and how the original looks like. 

Also it is the only set with full English subtitles and the artwork speaks for itself.

Being a German native speaker myself I also can confirm that they did a smart job to give you all options to watch the episodes only in the cut German version or the full English uncut one where all scenes that were never dubbed in German are subtitled instead.

Clear buy recommendation from me!

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb Ferrariman:

This to me looks like the usual "let's release another version because we know people will buy it"   Movies have been doing this for years. They continually re-release movies with "an extra 10 seconds of deleted content!"  or some other gimmick to pick our pockets.  I could never justify $180 (or even half of that) just because the shade of Gina's dress was just a little bit sharper. 

I have the original broadcasts from the 80's on VHS.  All 1st airings. I've watched them 1000 times and I can guarantee you the scenes that are missing are minimal at best. A few seconds out of 2 episodes is all that's missing and unless you've watched them 1000 times like I have, you won't even notice. So is it worth it? In a word, no.  Save your money.

Sorry Lou but you are wrong! How can you assess something without ever having seen that set yourself! This is like doing a color review as a blind person. The picture comparisons posted above with Gina´s dress do not give representative credit of what it really looks like. I had the chance to see some glimpses before start and decided to spend the 180 bucks and I did not regret it.

I would ask you not to sell your "sure facts" here for something you have not inspected yourself. I have the Koch set and they never claimed to have additional new scenes. The picture is the best ever (see my post on it above), the artwork is superior and it has full subtitles in English (all the previous sets did not have anything of that).

P.S. yes the price is hefty but I was involved and I know what labor of love they put into manual corrections of episodes and restore bugs from the Universal master to create that picture quality. They spent more than 1 year on doing that, it shows but it has its price if you are familiar with hourly rates of any manual process, from a carpenter to a plumber. When you now accuse them of going for a fast buck that this is just an unqualified prejudice without any substance. I would rather complain about the price for the cheap and sloppy US and French releases.

And your comparison with your old tapes or other sets is ridiculous. That is like apples and oranges. When I first saw the Koch BluRAy I have realized that I have never really seen MV visually. Not at least as it was intended to look like by Michael Mann in 1984. All the old tapes I have, the US DVD releases were dull old colorless crap against this box. However they did it (from the same masters as all the other releases before) it works. Now you know what a rip-off the other releases were that used the same master and came up with something mediocre.

For the future I would ask you to get the merch in question first yourself before doing a "review" and giving advice on it on suspicion and scaring off others with it. But to do such a remote diagnosis is not fair and does not do good service for a fan who asked us all here for advice!

I added the Amazon HD version as comparison above to make the difference clear and why it pays off to analyze both versions to come to a QUALIFIED OPINION.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tom

[airtommy]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I bought each of the official original Universal DVD sets as they were released for each season. They are very good visual quality and digitally remastered...as I assume the Blu-Ray set is as well. However, both used syndicated rerun versions for the episodes...so some scenes are probably edited from the original airings, and some colors/lighting are for some reason altered or changed—such as for Seasons 3-5, the reruns (and ultimately DVD & Blu-Ray sets) changed the logo colors to this ugly, un-MV like dark green & purple combo. 

Syndicated rerun versions were missing a lot of footage. The first Universal DVD was only missing a tiny number of things ("parachute pants", "no business like show business").  The DVDs might have been derived from network rerun versions?

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by airtommy

[ViceFanMan]

37 minutes ago, Tom said:

I have the Koch set myself and I was a little bit involved in the final production process as I helped a friend of mine to restore the best German audio for all episodes (I provided my old tapes).

Thus, I can say this box is the ultimate set in all respects: video quality (complete new scan from the original Universal master with lots of corrections, e.g. wrong gamma shift on earlier releases). They even fixed some bugs on the original Universal master, e.g. dropped frames on El Viejo at the end and dropped audio in "Sons and lovers"! The picture quality, sharpness and natural colors is groundbreaking. I add a picture here that I made with my mobile (sorry, I had no other chance than to just photograph it off the TV screen) to illustrate the colors. But I added the normal version from Amazon Prime (HD) in comparison that comes from the same shitty old Universal HD master scan. @FerrarimanI would say that comparison says everything? 

For the first time you can see how great the colors and visuals really were and how the original looks like. 

Also it is the only set with full English subtitles and the artwork speaks for itself.

Being a German native speaker myself I also can confirm that they did a smart job to give you all options to watch the episodes only in the cut German version or the full English uncut one where all scenes that were never dubbed in German are subtitled instead.

Clear buy recommendation from me!

 

 

Definite differences...but in all honesty the redone ones look crazy neon-like , whereas the others look more original and pastel-like. I realize that some of these sets digitally remaster the colors...but it sometimes actually changes them from what they originally were. I agree with @Ferrariman...the original airings & colors are best—I don’t care what people say...nothing beats that!  

[ViceFanMan]

25 minutes ago, airtommy said:

1.  Syndicated rerun versions were missing a lot of footage. The first Universal DVD was only missing a tiny number of things ("parachute pants", "no business like show business").  Those DVDs might have been derived from network rerun versions?

2.  Was the logo color change done for syndication?  I thought it was in the original broadcasts.

No, the original logo colors after Season 1 were always teal & pink...the purple & green was done later for reruns. The purple and green logo is the “fake” one...and a sign syndicated reruns were used for all the DVD & Blu-Ray sets.

Edited March 29, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

54 minutes ago, Ferrariman said:

This to me looks like the usual "let's release another version because we know people will buy it"   Movies have been doing this for years. They continually re-release movies with "an extra 10 seconds of deleted content!"  or some other gimmick to pick our pockets.  I could never justify $180 (or even half of that) just because the shade of Gina's dress was just a little bit sharper. 

I have the original broadcasts from the 80's on VHS.  All 1st airings. I've watched them 1000 times and I can guarantee you the scenes that are missing are minimal at best. A few seconds out of 2 episodes is all that's missing and unless you've watched them 1000 times like I have, you won't even notice. So is it worth it? In a word, no.  Save your money.

Totally agree...original airings are the best, and how things originally & truly were!! Digitally remastering the colors can actually change them. I’m lucky enough to have original airings too...and that’s MV gold to me! Digital-shmigital!  

[Tom]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan:

Definite differences...but in all honesty the redone ones look crazy neon-like , whereas the others look more original and pastel-like. I realize that some of these sets digitally remaster the colors...but it sometimes actually changes them from what they originally were. I agree with @Ferrariman...the original airings & colors are best—I don’t care what people say...nothing beats that!  

Your opinion but the Koch set has the most natural colors. They Filmed it that way! Maybe you just got too used to the dull old airings?

But what I am strictly against is to give „advice“ on something you have never seen yourself. Somebody who does not own the set or seen it himself should not give advice on it and disparage it.

 

[Tom]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan:

Totally agree...original airings are the best, and how things originally & truly were!! Digitally remastering the colors can actually change them. I’m lucky enough to have original airings too...and that’s MV gold to me! Digital-shmigital!  

Have you ever examined the Koch set in detail or do you possess it? If no then your argument ist just a Scientology statement. The member who started this set wanted substance help for his buying decision and you give him a religion statement on something you have not seen yourself. Do you think that will help him?

[ViceFanMan]

11 minutes ago, Tom said:

Your opinion but the Koch set has the most natural colors. They Filmed it that way! Maybe you just got too used to the dull old airings?

But what I am strictly against is to give „advice“ on something you have never seen yourself. Somebody who does not own the set or seen it himself should not give advice on it and disparage it.

 

Original airings are not dull old airings, lol!  They’re the real thing!  Nothing beats that, original real colors & logos and all...sorry!  I realize if you were involved with helping create the Koch set, you want people to buy it and spend the money, and I’m not saying it’s a “bad” set...but I am lucky enough to have the original real thing.  I don’t want altered or neon-intensified colors. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Tom]

Guys! A member considers to buy the Koch set and asked us for advice if it´s worth it. Don´t you think that makes only sense to give a buying advice if you have this set yourself to compare?

THUS: COULD EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE KOCH SET OR DID NOT EXAMINE IT AT LEAST IN DETAIL SOMEWHERE (not just have seen 2 pics here in the thread) REFRAIN FROM JUDGING IT HERE VIA POSTING?

You all may have your private opinions on it, but to judge something one does not have makes no sense and will not help the original requestor!

Maybe @Ferrarimanand @ViceFanMancan start their own "I don´t know it but I judge it" thread instead?

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb ViceFanMan:

Original airings are not dull old airings, lol!  They’re the real thing!  Nothing beats that, original real colors & logos and all...sorry!  I realize if you were involved with helping create the Koch set, you want people to buy it and spend the money, and I’m not saying it’s a “bad” set...but I am lucky enough to have the original real thing.  I don’t want altered or neon-intensified colors. 

LOL the original airings on an 80s TV? Or what exaclty are you referring to? The old VHS tapes? The US DVD? You cannot be serious that this is the real thing. This is the original thing, but not the real thing color-wise. You have no clue what you are talking about! VICE was filmed in BluRay resolution (the 35mm Panavision has the same resolution), but the scans to the HD masters were always bad. Koch did a new scan and they did NOT alter colors. You cannot judge that as you have not seen it.

Yor argument that I was involved is SUPERSILLY. I have no stake in Koch what so ever. But I have a copy myself and therefore can give a QUALIFIED OPINION about it, although it is subjective. You cannot give any opinion about it as you don´t have it (HEARSAY only). Got me? 

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

Guys! A member considers to buy the Koch set and asked us for advice if it´s worth it. Don´t you think that makes only sense to give a buying advice if you have this set yourself to compare?

THUS: COULD EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE KOCH SET OR DID NOT EXAMINE IT AT LEAST IN DETAIL SOMEWHERE (not just have seen 2 pics here in the thread) REFRAIN FROM JUDGING IT HERE VIA POSTING?

You all may have your private opinions on it, but to judge something one does not have makes no sense and will not help the original requestor!

Maybe @Ferrarimanand @ViceFanMancan start their own "I don´t know it but I judge it" thread instead?

 The person asked opinions. We are all giving our opinions.  Just because you don’t agree with ours, doesn’t make ours anymore wrong. From all the scenes and colors that you have posted to compare, I still stand by what I have stated. I realize that you want this person to buy this, and that’s your opinion. Now that you’ve stated yours, and we have stayed at ours, why don’t you let the person then decide. 

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb ViceFanMan:

 The person asked opinions. We are all giving our opinions.  Just because you don’t agree with ours, doesn’t make ours anymore wrong. From all the scenes and colors that you have posted to compare, I still stand by what I have stated. I realize that you want this person to buy this, and that’s your opinion. Now that you’ve stated yours, and we have stayed at ours, why don’t you let the person then decide. 

He wanted a BUYING HELP, not your hearsay or religious fight that the old tapes are better anyway. And you and Lou were disparaging something you have not seen yourself. Period. Not more and not less. No need to try to get around that by making ME a religious man. You can have your own opinion but need to see the item in question first. 

[Tom]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan:

. I realize that you want this person to buy this, and that’s your opinion. Now that you’ve stated yours, and we have stayed at ours, why don’t you let the person then decide. 

No, you are just manipulating here! I gave MY ADVICE after I bought it and REVIEWED IT. I don´t get anything if he buys it or not.

You gave your advice WITHOUT KNOWING THE SET AT ALL. That is ridiculous and manipulative. You would also rate a restaurant without ever having been there for dinner?

If you don´t get the difference get some help

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tom

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

He wanted a BUYING HELP, not your hearsay or religious fight that the old tapes are better anyway. And you and Lou were disparaging something you have not seen yourself. Period. Not more and not less. No need to try to get around that by making ME a religious man. You can have your own opinion but need to see the item in question first. 

 Nothing I have said  is hearsay, LOL! I have seen enough comparisons and enough DVD and Blu-ray sets to know. I don’t know what your hangup about the religious thing is, but now you’re coming off really goofy and silly, LOL!  The person was wanting opinions on whether it was worth spending that money or to buy it or not. Once again I realize you were bound and determined the person should buy it, I am saying I’m not necessarily sure it’s really worth it. However, if the person wants to buy it awesome! If they don’t, then you need to learn to deal with that. They asked for opinions, opinions have been provided.  I think it’s time you moved on, and let the poor person make their own decision. 

[Tom]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan:

 Nothing I have said  is hearsay, LOL! I have seen enough comparisons and enough DVD and Blu-ray sets to know. 

But you have not seen the Koch set right? DO YOU HAVE THE KOCH SET TO COMPARE (OR DID YOU SEE IT IN REALITY ON A TV SOMEHWERE)? YES OR NO? 

So no more words needed. You are the scientology guy here. I would respect any of your opinions if you had seen it. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tom

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

But you have not seen the Koch set right? So no more words needed. You are the scientology guy here. I would respect any of your opinions if you had seen it. 

Ok, you have gotten so far off with the anger & rage over someone who likes an original airing compared to an altered version...again, that’s your opinion. I’ve seen the comparisons and I’m standing by mine. Now, calm yourself, and now that we’ve all stated our opinions...why don’t we let the person ultimately decide (if you haven’t scared them away already ). 

[Tom]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan:

Ok, you have gotten so far off with the anger & rage over someone who likes an original airing compared to an altered version...again, that’s your opinion. I’ve seen the comparisons and I’m standing by mine. Now, calm yourself, and now that we’ve all stated our opinions...why don’t we let the person ultimately decide (if you haven’t scared them away already ). 

You are again trying to manipulate what I said: I respect that you like the original airings better (even if that makes no sense to me as I also own all older versions and they ARE dull compared to Koch set). But I do not accept that you give ratings and advice on a box set that you don´t have yourself. And I doubt that your "second hand" experience (just heard about it) will help the fan who asked more than my first hand experience. There were also other reviews here on the forum from fans who have the box so he does not base his decision on me only.

He can buy what he wants but I would base my 180 bucks decision rather on a first hand buyer experience than on opinion of someone who does not have it.