Episode "Hell hath no Fury"

[Tom]

Ok, I found it now, It is a different address. It´s 14400 Old Cutler Road.

Here is a picture with the details.

The roundabout with the journalists is there, the playground with the street running next to it (Old Cutler with the public bus), the parking lot in the background and the group of buildings with the inner yard (see pictures added below). Ellen Mason worked in the building on the far right side, the one closest to the Old Cutler Road.

Perfect work! Thanks!

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tom

[daytona365]

6 minutes ago, Tom said:

Ok, I found it now, It is a different address. It´s 14400 Old Cutler Road.

I've updated the address in my previous post

Edited May 25, 2020 by daytona365

[C Glide]

Wow, tough one solved. Great work. I can't wait to check this out further and update my site.

[Tom]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb daytona365:

the pic doesn't work, but I'll update the address anyway :-)

Its because I updated the picture with the episode details. Now it works. I added a few pictures.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tom

[daytona365]

8 minutes ago, C Glide said:

Wow, tough one solved. Great work. I can't wait to check this out further and update my site.

then don't forget to also add the locations of Tucker's drug den and Club Araña in Smuggler's Blues I've sent you a couple months back

Edited May 25, 2020 by daytona365

[Tom]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb daytona365:

then don't forget to put in the locations of the drug den and Club Araña in Smuggler's Blues I've sent you a couple months back

C Glide has around 25 locations to add. I also sent him a long list 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb C Glide:

Wow, tough one solved. Great work. I can't wait to check this out further and update my site.

Now, as we are in full gear, let´s hunt down the shooting range 

[Tom]

HHNF: CC2: the shooting range

I found an outdoor shooting range near Homestead, at 304th street. It fits in size but not in surrounding (2 houses, busy street in the background). Also historic aerials shows that in 1986 this range was not there. Just a quarry...

But it is the closest match so far. The search continues ...

Edited May 26, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

News Flash maybe coming regarding Ellen's apartment interior. Stand by.

Edited May 29, 2020 by C Glide

[C Glide]

News Flash: I have been working on updating this episode on my site because of the great work you have done and recent find of the long lost school. While watching the episode I was struck by a realization that I have trouble believing now that I did not catch before. While the exterior shots of Ellen's place were indeed filmed at 705 14th Street (now addressed as 701 14th Street apartment 3). The interior scenes that I thought were filmed inside, were not. But I may know where they were filmed. I recognized the layout and especially the fireplace from Bought and Paid For. Twins Apartments now Arcadia Condos, Gina's place. WOW! The unique fireplace is a significant piece of evidence. I continue to watch but it looks clear to me that it could not possibly have been filmed inside 705 14th Street. Pictures are now available of that apartment on Zillow and many things don't match up, floor plan, no fireplace and the front door is only a couple of feet from a wall that in the show would have been an open Livingroom. Also in the show they shoot from inside and show the open floorplan from the door but when Trudy is earlier seen running out we see a wall and door just inside the outer door. I continue to investigate.

[C Glide]

Tracking the path of Tubb's courtyard walk and talk with Ellen. X is her classroom.

[airtommy]

2 hours ago, C Glide said:

Pictures are now available of that apartment on Zillow and many things don't match up, floor plan, no fireplace and the front door is only a couple of feet from a wall that in the show would have been an open Livingroom. Also in the show they shoot from inside and show the open floorplan from the door but when Trudy is earlier seen running out we see a wall and door just inside the outer door. I continue to investigate.

I see what you mean about the two doors

I searched Miami Beach for apartments with fireplaces and only got a few hits, all w/ fireplaces in the corner of the room. Those glass bricks in the corners of the room are very unique.  It would have to be an end/corner apartment maybe?  Could this actually be a set?

 

[Tom]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb C Glide:

Tracking the path of Tubb's courtyard walk and talk with Ellen. X is her classroom.

You are right about the walk, but: the walk ends at the door of the playing room and the interior scenes of the playing room were not all filmed in the southern building but also in the eastern one! This is easy to prove: the wall color of the respective classroom interior (turquoise vs pink), the distance of the traffic on Old Cutler in the background and the „east“ sign above Ellen on the wall! In the arrest scenes (Beaks attacks Ellen and gets arrested) they filmed in the southern building as clearly indicated. in the picture below. So the X in your pic is only correct for the end of the walk and the arrest scenes but not for other the interior classroom scenes. For this purpose it (also) belongs to the eastern most building!

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb C Glide:

News Flash: I have been working on updating this episode on my site because of the great work you have done and recent find of the long lost school.

Say it honestly: you want put pressure on us to find the shooting range and this is an 48 hour limit set to us to add it to the update 

[Tom]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb airtommy:

I see what you mean about the two doors

I searched Miami Beach for apartments with fireplaces and only got a few hits, all w/ fireplaces in the corner of the room. Those glass bricks in the corners of the room are very unique.  It would have to be an end/corner apartment maybe?  Could this actually be a set? wit

I doubt that this is a real apartment. The Twin Towers apartment looks different despite the fireplace (this one here does not even look operative to me...?). 

To me, the whole appearance - fully pink kitchen and kitchen window, glass brick wall, ... -  resembles other studio sets used before. e.g. Tubbs apartment in Amen...send money (glassbrick wall) or Ginas apartment in "Bought and paid for". I am considering if there is any other studio set or components of it in other episodes that could look similar...

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

I am stumped with the shooting range. Given the background with residential houses, a nearby street and the nice picnic table as well as the lack of any shooting range administration building or infrastructure (except the range itself which is wood and concrete and therefore not likely decoration just for the episode), I came to the conclusion that this was a public shooting range that everyone can use without instructors.  

The hammock area visible in the background and safety regulations implicate that this range must be at the outskirts eg close to Everglades and not with a residential neighborhood behind the range. Having a range in your own backyard was just allowed in 2014 in Florida. I am not sure if an unattended range like the one on MV was common or even allowed without range master back in the 80s.

I checked (with help of public listing by the FWC in Florida) all public shooting ranges from Homestead up to Markham´s range in north Broward and even took a look to the few registered ones on the west coast near Naples. https://myfwc.com/hunting/safety-education/shooting-ranges/

There are not many. Just 11 official ones in Florida in total. No fit. 

This is getting mysterious. Like the Burnett villa was for a long time. My best bet is that this public range is gone. Unfortunately, I did not find any historic list of these public ranges from the 80s to exclude that possibility.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

7 hours ago, airtommy said:

I see what you mean about the two doors

I searched Miami Beach for apartments with fireplaces and only got a few hits, all w/ fireplaces in the corner of the room. Those glass bricks in the corners of the room are very unique.  It would have to be an end/corner apartment maybe?  Could this actually be a set?

 

The fireplace is the exact design of Gina's except not in a corner. Set crossed my mind but I think it is a real location.

[Tom]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb C Glide:

The fireplace is the exact design of Gina's except not in a corner. Set crossed my mind but I think it is a real location.

I checked three different Twin apartments (#5, #7 and #8 to be specific) but except the fireplace, neither the door area nor anything else in their appearance rang a bell with me. See yourself below. And nowhere are glass bricks laid in like we see in HHNF. I doubt that they ripped exactly these small bricks out in every apartment since then.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

It is a mystery. Another amazing thing about Vice after all these years. Fun. Don't forget that when the changed to condo ( I will have to look at my pictures when I get home from work for the date) they gutted these places and did a total remodel. Strange if it is a set that they copied Gina's fireplace so accurately. I will look at 701 14th Street more closely tonight as if I remember correctly, the east end had an L shape with at least some block windows. Maybe they used a different apartment there. These units are two stories not 1.

[Tom]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb C Glide:

It is a mystery. Another amazing thing about Vice after all these years. Fun. Don't forget that when the changed to condo ( I will have to look at my pictures when I get home from work for the date) they gutted these places and did a total remodel. Strange if it is a set that they copied Gina's fireplace so accurately. I will look at 701 14th Street more closely tonight as if I remember correctly, the east end had an L shape with at least some block windows. Maybe they used a different apartment there. These units are two stories not 1.

Thank god that we have Google, zillow, etc otherwise we would be screwed. What we find after 35 years is amazing enough. The 1:1 fireplace copy speaks for Twin Aprtments, but everything else against it. I did not check where exactly apartments #5, 7, 8 are (I am fully aware of the second floor), but the odds are high that  these three are a good overall representation and floor schema will be nearly the same with all others.I also focused on the match of the entrance area, in the episode it looks like a 1-room apartment, where you enter the living room directly from the street. That is not only unusual but also will not match with any apt in the Twin condos where there is a small hallway after the entrance door (BTW: I hate that condo madness in SoBe. Every area I lived there in the 90s they built a high price condo and tore down all shops or public places for it).

P.S. Do not forget the floor! In Give a little take a little Ginas apartment had a wooden floor, same on the realtor pics. In HHNF we see carpet  for the whole room if I am not mistaken. That is unusual and rather speaks for a set, because it is too cumbersome to lay out a new wooden parquet floor for such a one-time set in studio (which has normally a concrete floor).

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

We will get it. In the end we will solve them all and have fun doing it.

[miamijimf]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

I am stumped with the shooting range. Given the background with residential houses, a nearby street and the nice picnic table as well as the lack of any shooting range administration building or infrastructure (except the range itself which is wood and concrete and therefore not likely decoration just for the episode), I came to the conclusion that this was a public shooting range that everyone can use without instructors.  

The hammock area visible in the background and safety regulations implicate that this range must be at the outskirts eg close to Everglades and not with a residential neighborhood behind the range. Having a range in your own backyard was just allowed in 2014 in Florida. I am not sure if an unattended range like the one on MV was common or even allowed without range master back in the 80s.

I checked (with help of public listing by the FWC in Florida) all public shooting ranges from Homestead up to Markham´s range in north Broward and even took a look to the few registered ones on the west coast near Naples. https://myfwc.com/hunting/safety-education/shooting-ranges/

There are not many. Just 11 official ones in Florida in total. No fit. 

This is getting mysterious. Like the Burnett villa was for a long time. My best bet is that this public range is gone. Unfortunately, I did not find any historic list of these public ranges from the 80s to exclude that possibility.

There is no doubt that it was a real range, permanent structure and the firing line looks exactly like the Trail Glades firing line.  Outdoor ranges came and went in the Dade County area.  I remember passing a small "cemetery" just before you came to the admin building at Trail Glades which had small 2 ft high headstones marked with the names of other ranges that had been closed due to accidents or safety violations.  It showed the determination of the managers of Trail Glades to keep their range alive and safe.  They were successful because it's still there.  I remember this from the 50s and early 60s but I'll bet that range closings continued into the 80s and 90s.

[Tom]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb miamijimf:

There is no doubt that it was a real range, permanent structure and the firing line looks exactly like the Trail Glades firing line.  Outdoor ranges came and went in the Dade County area.  I remember passing a small "cemetery" just before you came to the admin building at Trail Glades which had small 2 ft high headstones marked with the names of other ranges that had been closed due to accidents or safety violations.  It showed the determination of the managers of Trail Glades to keep their range alive and safe.  They were successful because it's still there.  I remember this from the 50s and early 60s but I'll bet that range closings continued into the 80s and 90s.

Thanks. That´s what I thought.

Means we have a plan: @C Glide who lives near Naples now, drives over with a portable DVD player to Trail Glades which is at Tamiami Trail and interviews the owner about the MV range 

[C Glide]

I plan on going over Sunday to check out a few locations.

[C Glide]

Pop's Gun Club in SW Ranches is the closest I have found on my quick search this time around. Wanted to point out the tower  seen in the near background. I had forgotten about it so I wanted to make sure it had been seen by all.