Tom Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 vor 2 Stunden schrieb C Glide: This is a tough one though it seems it should not be. Spent an hour or so looking when I first did the episode on my site with clearly no luck. Just spent about 1.5 hours, still no luck. A mystery. Did have a close call, see attached photos but not it. At first we need to find a place with the same island/waterway situation as seen in the episode especially bearing in mind the tip of land, the open water seen next to it and the waterway width. I found not a single location in whole Miami area up to Palm Beach that fits. If there is no fitting spot then the question if the house was maybe remodeled or abandoned is obsolete too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona365 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) @C Glide, thrilled to see you back!!! I think I may have a candidate for the RIB house: 710 Harbor Dr, Key Biscayne. I could not find any pictures of this house, only google maps views. There, the house looks quite different, but there are some things that make me believe it could be the house, although heavily remodeled: From what we see in the episode, the house is built around an octagonal center, which applies also to this building It's looking out on a tip of land It has an octagonal window in the correct place The shape of the pool is very distinctive There is a structure across from it on the waterline which resembles what you see in google maps I think there is an external staircase in the correct spot, but it's not clearly visible in google maps The house apparently was built in 1969, so it was there in 1989 Other scences with Jon Polito were also filmed on Key Biscayne Approximate layout we see in the episode: (octangular center and pool in sketch are shapted after 710 Harbor Dr) Aerial of 710 Harbor Dr looking out on a tongue and a tip of land Octagonal window structure on opposite side Edited May 20, 2020 by daytona365 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) Interesting theory! Thanks! That’s at least a location that is nearly matching with the surrounding criteria. I checked this property earlier and I doubt that´s a possibility even with remodelling. Here´s why: the 1986 historic aerial shows that 1. the pool is too far from the waterfront compared to the episode where it is close to the waterfront. 2. the house in 1986 seems to be the same as we see now (the house we see in the episode is max 3-5 years old not built in 1969). The diagonal Front at the southeast end of the house is missing too. No way they built that house back to original state after RIB was filmed in Oct 1988! 3. the opposite land is too much developed in 1986. In the episode we see much high greenery and less houses. 4. the angle with the tip of land does not fit. In the episode El Gato is at the last corner of the property with the staircase and angle indicates that the house would need to be much more "inland" (down the waterfront row to the right/southeast from our perspective) to match what we see in the episode.my red arrow indicates where the tip of land would need to be in case the house was the right one). Edited May 20, 2020 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona365 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 44 minutes ago, Tom said: Interesting theory! Thanks! That’s at least a location that is nearly matching with the surrounding criteria. I checked this property earlier and I doubt that´s a possibility even with remodelling. Here´s why: the 1986 historic aerial shows that 1. the pool is too far from the waterfront compared to the episode where it is close to the waterfront. 2. the house in 1986 seems to be the same as we see now (the house we see in the episode is max 3-5 years old not built in 1969). The diagonal Front at the southeast end of the house is missing too. No way they built that house back to original state after RIB was filmed in Oct 1988! 3. the opposite land is too much developed in 1986. In the episode we see much high greenery and less houses. 4. the angle with the tip of land does not fit. In the episode El Gato is at the last corner of the property with the staircase and angle indicates that the house would need to be much more "inland" (down the waterfront row to the right/southeast from our perspective) to match what we see in the episode.my red arrow indicates where the tip of land would need to be in case the house was the right one). the house in 86 looks totally different, there's no octaconal center, no pool, no jetty, there are only two perpendicular wings. The aerial for 1995 is a blurry nightmare but seems to show something closer to current but still different. This matches however with your statement that the house was at max 3 years old at the time of filming. Proximity to water impression could be due to heigth and camera angle and I don't quite get what you mean with the angle to the tip of land. IMO this matches quite well. I'm not ditching this and will continue to investigate. View from the house towards tip of land: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Just to add: This type of Bauhaus style house (architecture) started in 1982. you will not find any house in Miami like seen in the episode older than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Yes I looked at that house as well. I think we are all on the same page and will find it. I can't rule much completely out as we have not found it yet so I keep all options open but tonight I am going to scan historic aerials as I believe now that the house is most likely gone or heavily remodeled. Lets face it a high priced property on the water would not likely remain with that ugly gold trim and cold design. If it were easy it would not be so much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) vor 21 Minuten schrieb C Glide: Yes I looked at that house as well. I think we are all on the same page and will find it. I can't rule much completely out as we have not found it yet so I keep all options open but tonight I am going to scan historic aerials as I believe now that the house is most likely gone or heavily remodeled. Lets face it a high priced property on the water would not likely remain with that ugly gold trim and cold design. If it were easy it would not be so much fun. I agree that it likely was remodeled but my biggest concern is the location. I tried to find fitting spots for the house based on our clues with historic aerials but there is no location that fits with all our clues for the surrounding of the location. I am stumped. the only case I know where they tore down a new waterfront home is Levecs house in Indian Wars. but Star Island is a special case. Buyers there are so wealthy that they easily afford to pay double just to rebuild completely. Edited May 20, 2020 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Do we all agree that attached to the south east corner of the pool is a hot tub and that is why the corner is rounded. Looks like a hot tub to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Tonight I am just gonna look at all points of land that were mostly green at time of filming and eliminate all prospects from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) The water frontage of the property seems unique in that it's compass orientation along the canal is not a N+S or E+W it appears to me to be more of a left end pointing east south east and right of screen being more north west in direction.??? Edited May 21, 2020 by C Glide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona365 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 I've contacted the owner of 710 Harbor Dr via LinkedIn (could't find his email), let's see if anything comes around. The octagonal center and window and the pool shape are still biting me. And you would not believe what kind of horrible interiors rich people can retain over decades, I have an example in my own family :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 vor 40 Minuten schrieb C Glide: Do we all agree that attached to the south east corner of the pool is a hot tub and that is why the corner is rounded. Looks like a hot tub to me. I am not sure about that. But even if we are, this clue I would not build on too much if we assume correctly that the whole property was completely remodeled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 vor 35 Minuten schrieb C Glide: The water frontage of the property seems unique in that it's compass orientation along the canal is not a N+S or E+W it appears to me to be more of a left end pointing east south east and right of screen being more north east in direction.??? How can you pinpoint directions here? I would be happy if we could. But pools are not always directed to the south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 I believe the exterior lighting is natural. For example when El Gato walks in the water is a fire with the suns refection on the water. Given the location/position of the sun and resulting shadows and bright spots we can determine the orientation. This filming could only be done about mid morning (10:00ish) or late afternoon which is my bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 No luck tonight anywhere else. I dismissed it before but 710 Harbor Drive KB is still the best find so far. As I study it more I have become about 97% sure that is the place. So much matches up. Right compass orientation, white out building in right spot (that is a biggie), hot tub in right spot, angles on pool correct, tree at north end of pool in right spot, multiple columns in right spot, roof shapes are right for what we see inside, rectangular look of roof in SE corner is deceptive as it appears to cover an outdoor area that we see in the ep. and I suspected that this maybe the case when watching the ep. What are the columns doing there if not supporting such a roof. Tomorrow I will ask a friend who grew up down the street if he has been in there to see if he knows the house. (He is the one who showed me the Caddyshack house just over on S Mashta Drive which I have not published yet.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 1365483287_047.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) vor 6 Stunden schrieb C Glide: No luck tonight anywhere else. I dismissed it before but 710 Harbor Drive KB is still the best find so far. As I study it more I have become about 97% sure that is the place. So much matches up. Right compass orientation, white out building in right spot (that is a biggie), hot tub in right spot, angles on pool correct, tree at north end of pool in right spot, multiple columns in right spot, roof shapes are right for what we see inside, rectangular look of roof in SE corner is deceptive as it appears to cover an outdoor area that we see in the ep. and I suspected that this maybe the case when watching the ep. What are the columns doing there if not supporting such a roof. Tomorrow I will ask a friend who grew up down the street if he has been in there to see if he knows the house. (He is the one who showed me the Caddyshack house just over on S Mashta Drive which I have not published yet.) I agree. Let’s assume that it is the house (the 3% not matching for me are the short tip of land that does not match the angle from the corner with the staircase, the mysterious "tower" structure behind Celeste and that the opposite land is on 1986 aerial much more developed than seen on MV, but all these issues are somehow explainable, e.g. palm trees in MV blocking the view and simulate more green than there was on the opposite side) In order to prove that this WAS the house and if we can´t find photos of its 1988 state that means that we need more intel supporting that the original house (Seen on historic aerials 1986) was torn down in 1987 rebuild in 1987/88 as we see it on MV in Oct 88 and remodeled after 1988 (the 1995 historic aerials is inconclusive but we know for sure that what we see 2020 on Google is not the state as we see it in MV 1988 as some landmarks as the spiral staircase is gone). The 1969 build date about that house could be wrong or just misleading (stating the original first build, not the subsequent remodelings). And guess what there is proof that the (foundation of the current) house was erected in 1987! See red rectangle in my picture (source: Clustermaps, https://clustrmaps.com/a/mkknu/). Bad luck, that was one year too late to be reflected on historic aerials! The info about companies registered there could lead to some pictures of the house in 1980a that cannot be found by normal google search for the address only. So, the chances that we have the right house have risen to 99% for me. And...if you want to interview prior owners see at the other pic. Telephone numbers included ... Also, it is obvious that this is the only possible spot at all in Greater Miami that fits (unlikely that we have overlooked another) with all surroundings. Edited May 21, 2020 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) I am trying to set the puzzle pieces together in the right place, also visually now. I think we are inching to the final verdict that this IS or better WAS the house (although I was negative about it originally). Remark: I partly borrowed @daytona365´s great pool recreation graphics. Sorry for "highjacking" this but it helps a lot to vizualize! The tip of land that disturbed me (too developed, angle) can be explained. As Historic aerials 1986 proves the last two houses were not there, thus it appeared as green tip of land behind El Gato and the angle fits as well bearing in mind exact camera position on El Gato gives some room for flexibility and cannot re-created with Google Earth exactly. Edited May 21, 2020 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona365 Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tom said: I think if you look closely that the spiral staircase is even still there, partially hidden by the trees. Not to mention the octagonal window in the exact right spot, that's also a dead giveaway. And the octagonal shape of the hot tub. The original designer or owner seems to have had a big love for that. you can twitter the current owner too, or post a message on is FB. I don't have accounts there myself, so I can't. He doesn't seem to be very active there though. https://twitter.com/harbordrive710 https://www.facebook.com/karl.stenstrom.9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) vor 1 Stunde schrieb daytona365: I think if you look closely that the spiral staircase is even still there, partially hidden by the trees. Not to mention the octagonal window in the exact right spot, that's also a dead giveaway. And the octagonal shape of the hot tub. The original designer or owner seems to have had a big love for that. you can twitter the current owner too, or post a message on is FB. I don't have accounts there myself, so I can't. He doesn't seem to be very active there though. https://twitter.com/harbordrive710 https://www.facebook.com/karl.stenstrom.9 DAMN you are RIGHT! I overlooked that! The spiral staircase is still there! I´ll update the picture and change it! UPDATE: I have updated the aerial pic with the staircase. That means we have found it! NO WAY that the pool and building octagonal shape, the vertical exterior columns, the spiral staircase and the waterway surrounding all can be a coincidence! the appearance of the staircase (fully filled white guiderail) fits too.the vertical columns are thicker now but that makes sense since they must carry more static weight now of extended rooms underneath roof. BURNETT HOUSE, 710 HARBOR DRIVE; KEY BISCAYNE Congratulations gents - @daytona365 and @C Glide! Great detective team effort! Let´s wait for C Glide´s comment on that. If he agrees too, I think we can post this location as found in the episode thread! @airtommy @Matt5@miamijimf Edited May 21, 2020 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Am 12.5.2020 um 12:37 schrieb Tom: Time to do a missing location status folks! I counted still 30 unknown locations in all five season’s episodes, approx a dozen of which are major locations (eg houses that have significant scenes) like the party house in Rites of passage FOUND the racetrack in One way ticket the Espinoza house in Duty and Honor Crocketts /Caitlin’s new house in Rising sun of death FOUND the Video dating club in Love at first sight the Cook house in Blood and roses the teaser house in Deliver us from evil Burnett’s house in Redemption in blood (a very mysterious one despite very unique clues like broad waterway and exterior spiral stairs!) FOUND Ross home in Miami squeeze Ritas house and Lombard home in World of Trouble Yvonnes house in Too much too late All of these are still unsolved and deserve a concentrated effort (I did a lot of searching the last few weeks but to no avail), don’t you think? we had great success in tackling locations together years ago (I especially remember how many people helped to track down the Ramrod Motel in Streetwise!). Why not trying it again together in a systematic way (eg define a sketch what exactly we look for and split it up area- and detectivewise?)? Not bad, for 9 days of detective work! 3 major locations found out of a dozen unknown cases (and the 4th location found, the "consulate" in Rites of passage is not even mentioned in above list!). If we go on like that we´ll nail down all of them this before the end of summer! Edited May 21, 2020 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just got to work and spoke with my friend that grew up on KB. He and his brother as kids walked every inch of that island as kids fishing the shoreline all the way around. His favorite fishing spot was on Nixon's heli-pad we saw used several times in Vice. Back when the secret service was more relaxed about that stuff. Even has a great story about when the SS helped him land an 11 foot hammerhead on the pad using a chain and Nixon got mad. He states for sure that this is the house as he use to fish in that backyard as well. Cheers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 vor 2 Minuten schrieb C Glide: Just got to work and spoke with my friend that grew up on KB. He and his brother as kids walked every inch of that island as kids fishing the shoreline all the way around. His favorite fishing spot was on Nixon's heli-pad we saw used several times in Vice. Back when the secret service was more relaxed about that stuff. Even has a great story about when the SS helped him land an 11 foot hammerhead on the pad using a chain and Nixon got mad. He states for sure that this is the house as he use to fish in that backyard as well. Cheers. Thanks! Good to know, but the evidence is overwhelming anyway! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 as we discussed the vertical columns of the Burnett house: this type of column "outriggers" were obviously very popular in those days. Attached is a photo from a house deep south in Pinecrest, also built in 1987. It never appeared in MV, but it has the same columns, most probably also with a roof although not visible here. Same architect? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) On 5/20/2020 at 4:41 AM, daytona365 said: Octagonal window This was the clincher for me. Once I saw this, I knew you had found it. Congrats, this is an remarkable find! I searched from here to all the way up to the northern end of Broward but couldn't find it. The Hibiscus Island house that you guys had discussed years ago was an incredibly close match. It must have been the same architect. https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=602d09bc-0596-4b26-85fd-8f48cad550ea&cp=25.78198~-80.156055&lvl=22&dir=270&style=g&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 Edited May 21, 2020 by airtommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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