Episode #17 "The Maze"

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Just my take on this episode. I read conflicting reviews and in my opinion this is not as bad as some made it to be.

The intro was one of the best in the whole series, I liked  the whole Crockett chase sequence at the mall. That moron of detective Dureya got on my nerves from the very first scene. If i was his partner i would have punched him for being an idiot. And i was hoping for Dureya to be shot in the maze by the Escobar brothers. But I assume he got at least suspended or fired. I found very funny the way Switek and Zito showed up to the maze owner to demand the man's attention and get the building blueprints. And Stan line 'it's safe to say lunch is a wash' . I also appreciate the realistic approach when showing the SWAT/SRT guys planning the entry in the building. I think they wanted to get an undercover detective first (Tubbs) to evacuate the civilians for the swat to come in and get the perps dead or alive. I know real life SWAT/tactical teams are trained to locate and secure hostages first while another team goes for the bad guys.

And for me the highlight of the episode is the dancer in the disco scene. Always had me laughing so hard. The man must have snorted a few lines of white .
I agree though with some posters saying some scenes dragged for too long, especially the shots inside the derelict building. On a final note, I find Raul Escobar bursting into tears at the end before getting arrested quite pathetic.

Let's give this a 7/10.

Very well stated, and accurate thoughts for “Maze”!  Even if it is maybe “weaker” than some of the other 1st season episodes, I too don’t think it’s as bad as some make it out to be.

 I laugh so hard every time I watch the scene with the crazy guy-dancer at the club...pink suit & two-tone spats to match, lol!!  He definitely had sampled some lines of Calderone’s finest beforehand! 

I originally gave it a 7, then later thought maybe just a 6...but I think you’re right. Let’s stick with the 7! 

[RedDragon86]

It's a good one but a little gritty.

This is the type of material better suited in Kojak.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by RedDragon86

[mjcmmv]

On 1/19/2021 at 9:52 PM, Dadrian said:

I watched this episode last night. 

This is another one where you just have to focus on the amazing Jan Hammer music throughout. 

Honestly—I think Jan was thinking: “I gotta pull out all the stops here. This one needs some real help.”

He totally came through. 

You are so right about this, Dadrian! The music was key!

[Dadrian]

33 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

You are so right about this, Dadrian! The music was key!

Thanks, Mary!

Don’t get me wrong—even with the mostly lackluster images and stagnant location, it’s still a great episode from season one! There is so much Jan Hammer music throughout on this one, though. It seems his music would be the most memorable part for anyone, but it’s hard for me to be objective in that department.  

[ViceFanMan]

11 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Thanks, Mary!

Don’t get me wrong—even with the mostly lackluster images and stagnant location, it’s still a great episode from season one! There is so much Jan Hammer music throughout on this one, though. It seems his music would be the most memorable part for anyone, but it’s hard for me to be objective in that department.  

Hey, now...the Blue Waters wasn’t a “stagnant” location for filming...although it probably smelled stagnant, lol!  Seriously, though, great music and I don’t think the plot is that bad...awesome performances by all!  I wish the Blue Waters could’ve been saved/preserved, before it was trashed.  

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 4/9/2021 at 4:12 PM, sdiegolo78 said:

Just my take on this episode. I read conflicting reviews and in my opinion this is not as bad as some made it to be.

The intro was one of the best in the whole series, I liked  the whole Crockett chase sequence at the mall. That moron of detective Dureya got on my nerves from the very first scene. If i was his partner i would have punched him for being an idiot. And i was hoping for Dureya to be shot in the maze by the Escobar brothers. But I assume he got at least suspended or fired. I found very funny the way Switek and Zito showed up to the maze owner to demand the man's attention and get the building blueprints. And Stan line 'it's safe to say lunch is a wash' . I also appreciate the realistic approach when showing the SWAT/SRT guys planning the entry in the building. I think they wanted to get an undercover detective first (Tubbs) to evacuate the civilians for the swat to come in and get the perps dead or alive. I know real life SWAT/tactical teams are trained to locate and secure hostages first while another team goes for the bad guys.

And for me the highlight of the episode is the dancer in the disco scene. Always had me laughing so hard. The man must have snorted a few lines of white .
I agree though with some posters saying some scenes dragged for too long, especially the shots inside the derelict building. On a final note, I find Raul Escobar bursting into tears at the end before getting arrested quite pathetic.

Let's give this a 7/10.

Oh, I'm all about Pepe and that "Renegades of Funk"; Pepe's a key figure too, he knows about "The Maze", and he was right, his feet WERE on fire!

[Christine]

Today I watched "The Maze." While I think much of what I'm writing now has already been said by someone at some point, I'm just going to write down my thoughts on the episode now.
After a brief but lighthearted beginning with banter between Crockett, Tubbs, Tim and Dickie, things quickly get serious.
I think Tubbs plays the part of the Jamaican who has just arrived in Miami very believably and in the dirty, torn clothes he immediately gives a completely different image.
What struck me immediately was that he had absolutely no problems getting into the supposedly so well-secured fortress. The picture inside I found very depressing, the many dirt, the clearly visible decay everywhere.
The story itself doesn't offer very much suspense. There is the girl who doesn't realize that her behavior could give the Escobars some stupid ideas. She also doesn't seem shocked or sad after her brother is shot.
What I didn't understand, even on repeated viewings, is why Tubbs is suddenly tied up on the floor. Was there something cut out of the film? Maybe there is someone who can explain to me how this situation came about.
What I also noticed was that Crockett again walked around half the building and climbed over walls to find an entrance to the hotel. He says as much over the radio, but the task force makes it easy: they simply use the main entrance door, through which the body had already been carried out and the children had escaped into the open.
I like the episode (a bit) because it's a Tubbs episode, but I wouldn't call it a highlight of the series.

 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

2 hours ago, Christine said:

Today I watched "The Maze." While I think much of what I'm writing now has already been said by someone at some point, I'm just going to write down my thoughts on the episode now.
After a brief but lighthearted beginning with banter between Crockett, Tubbs, Tim and Dickie, things quickly get serious.
I think Tubbs plays the part of the Jamaican who has just arrived in Miami very believably and in the dirty, torn clothes he immediately gives a completely different image.
What struck me immediately was that he had absolutely no problems getting into the supposedly so well-secured fortress. The picture inside I found very depressing, the many dirt, the clearly visible decay everywhere.
The story itself doesn't offer very much suspense. There is the girl who doesn't realize that her behavior could give the Escobars some stupid ideas. She also doesn't seem shocked or sad after her brother is shot.
What I didn't understand, even on repeated viewings, is why Tubbs is suddenly tied up on the floor. Was there something cut out of the film? Maybe there is someone who can explain to me how this situation came about.
What I also noticed was that Crockett again walked around half the building and climbed over walls to find an entrance to the hotel. He says as much over the radio, but the task force makes it easy: they simply use the main entrance door, through which the body had already been carried out and the children had escaped into the open.
I like the episode (a bit) because it's a Tubbs episode, but I wouldn't call it a highlight of the series.

 

From my point of view, the reason Tubbs was tied up was due to being confrontational during the events that led to the shooting of Georges. I suppose he was tied up off-camera (Now for me, when I get tied up I need the camera on, otherwise I end up pretty disappointed), but the Escobars weren't really digging Jamaican Tubbs's interference to begin with, as he was questioning their (poorly thought out) answers.

As for Gabriella's reaction to her brother's death, maybe she was in shock. I agree though, her dancing did lead to issues.

Ha ha, yeah, "The Maze" was pretty easy to enter, but I think caution was in play due to the potential hostages and the erratic behavior of the Escobar brothers. Not much of a maze though, from what I can determine.

[Christine]

The Blue Waters was a giant box that you could definitely get lost in, but you didn't get to see much of it, unfortunately. It would have been fitting if a map of the hotel had been on the table at the team meeting where Tubbs painted. This could have been shown again after Crockett explained that he was going in. A Crockett who looks at the architect's plans again before he starts walking would have been more believable.

 

[FlemFan]

A mixed bag for me. A clever premise, Tubbs's arc is super, just gets a bit plodding and slow in places. Crockett advancing then going behind the SWAT then roaming around was awkward.

[Christine]

Am 27.4.2021 um 16:46 schrieb FlemFan:

A mixed bag for me. A clever premise, Tubbs's arc is super, just gets a bit plodding and slow in places. Crockett advancing then going behind the SWAT then roaming around was awkward.

Behind Crockett's apparent awkwardness, however, there may have been some intent on the part of the creators. A SWAT team consists of specially trained officers and Crockett did not enjoy such training. Besides, he certainly didn't want to get in the way of his colleagues. Therefore, his behavior was understandable to me.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:56 AM, Christine said:

Behind Crockett's apparent awkwardness, however, there may have been some intent on the part of the creators. A SWAT team consists of specially trained officers and Crockett did not enjoy such training. Besides, he certainly didn't want to get in the way of his colleagues. Therefore, his behavior was understandable to me.

I agree, I feel like it would be an awkward situation for Crockett, as having SWAT involved (along with unknown status of his partner) isn't a usual part of his daily job.

[Christine]

In other series or movies, the protagonist would have stormed past the SWAT team and done the job single-handedly. That Crockett didn´t do it that way made him for me more credidable.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Christine

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

18 minutes ago, Christine said:

In other series or movies, the protagonist would have stormed past the SWAT team and done the job single-handedly. That Crockett didn´t do it that way made him for me more credidable.

I agree with you on that point as well; Crockett went in, but also stayed back. The whole setup just wasn't in his wheelhouse, and he made a point of stating that. It's like in life, sometimes when one isn't for sure on something it's best to stay out of the way, even if that goes against their nature. Now Tim Duryea, he would've stormed in, injuring (or worse) many, along with getting his head taken off.

[RedDragon86]

Apart from the obvious problems people might have with this episode, thats it too gritty or lacks any sort of style, I think the main problem with it is Crockett and Tubbs dramatic character change. It's a very liberal episode, the intro Sonny and Tubbs promoting some sort of community driven policing. Tubbs saying "Damn" after he shot dead one of the Escobar's who nearly killed him was out of character, I mean what happened to these guys all of a sudden? 

Amazingly the detective (Tim Duryea) is some how blamed for responding to a store being smashed up and the owner having a shotgun thrown in his face, Tim's partner is shot dead and Sonny later stating "He got his partner killed" utter rubbish! the criminals who shot him were responsible for his death end of. Tim and his partner like C&Ts do many times were reacting to violence on the streets, they weren't going to ignore it. Tim is treated very badly in this throughout.

Tubbs telling him at the end "you don't deserve to be a cop" was way out of line. I felt sorry for Tim.

I haven't watched it in years so I decided to watch this one last night, I usually skip it and go straight to "Made for Each Other" now I know why.

Terrible episode. 4/10

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Apart from the obvious problems people might have with this episode, thats it too gritty or lacks any sort of style, I think the main problem with it is Crockett and Tubbs dramatic character change. It's a very liberal episode, the intro Sonny and Tubbs promoting some sort of community driven policing. Tubbs saying "Damn" after he shot dead one of the Escobar's who nearly killed him was out of character, I mean what happened to these guys all of a sudden? 

Amazingly the detective (Tim Duryea) is some how blamed for responding to a store being smashed up and the owner having a shotgun thrown in his face, Tim's partner is shot dead and Sonny later stating "He got his partner killed" utter rubbish! the criminals who shot him were responsible for his death end of. Tim and his partner like C&Ts do many times were reacting to violence on the streets, they weren't going to ignore it. Tim is treated very badly in this throughout.

Tubbs telling him at the end "you don't deserve to be a cop" was way out of line. I felt sorry for Tim.

I haven't watched it in years so I decided to watch this one last night, I usually skip it and go straight to "Made for Each Other" now I know why.

Terrible episode. 4/10

 

I’d rather watch this than MFEO...can’t stand that one! But, that’s just me. 

But, it was the haphazard, wild, and ultimately dangerous way that Tim responded to the robberies. He didn’t respond appropriately and just kind of went ‘Wild Bill Hickock’...which ultimately put his partner, and C&T in danger. It ultimately got his partner killed.

I don’t think C&T loved shooting people, especially if they were young (Escobars were mostly upper teens/20s). So, even though he had to, I think Tubbs probably didn’t want to have to shoot & that’s where the “damn” comment came from. 

Not a strong episode, but it had its good points. But to each his or her own. 

[RedDragon86]

10 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I’d rather watch this than MFEO...can’t stand that one! But, that’s just me. 

But, it was the haphazard, wild, and ultimately dangerous way that Tim responded to the robberies. He didn’t respond appropriately and just kind of went ‘Wild Bill Hickock’...which ultimately put his partner, and C&T in danger. It ultimately got his partner killed.

I don’t think C&T loved shooting people, especially if they were young (Escobars were mostly upper teens/20s). So, even though he had to, I think Tubbs probably didn’t want to have to shoot & that’s where the “damn” comment came from. 

Not a strong episode, but it had its good points. But to each his or her own. 

What exactly is the police procedure for seeing a group of people thugs with shotguns? they could have killed the store owner. What is the difference if they got a call that there were dangerous individuals threatening a store owner and Sonny and Rico turned up at the scene? 

[ViceFanMan]

16 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

What exactly is the police procedure for seeing a group of people thugs with shotguns? they could have killed the store owner. What is the difference if they got a call that there were dangerous individuals threatening a store owner and Sonny and Rico turned up at the scene? 

Most likely #1 they should have called it in & for backup. #2 they don’t charge towards them right out in the open. They could have quietly & strategically positioned themselves to try and take them down/arrest them.

But, by Tim playing ‘John Wayne’ and charging them, the gangsters were alerted immediately cops were there and it caused a huge gun battle...resulting in Tim’s partner being killed, as he didn’t have time to really find cover or position himself so he most likely wouldn’t get shot.

Tim was an egotistical, loose-cannon whose wild-west tactics resulted in the death of another cop and the Escobars to escape & hole themselves up in the “maze” of the abandoned Blue Waters Hotel—which created an even more dangerous situation to try and bring them down.

Edited May 25, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

Most likely #1 they should have called it in & for backup. #2 they don’t charge towards them right out in the open. They could have quietly & strategically positioned themselves to try and take them down/arrest them.

But, by Tim playing ‘John Wayne’ and charging them, the gangsters were alerted immediately cops were there and it caused a huge gun battle...resulting in Tim’s partner being killed, as he didn’t have time to really find cover or position himself so he most likely wouldn’t get shot.

Tim was an egotistical, loose-cannon whose wild-west tactics resulted in the death of another cop and the Escobars to escape & hole themselves up in the “maze” of the abandoned Blue Waters Hotel—which created an even more dangerous situation to try and bring them down.

That's in a perfect world. The irony is Sonny sometimes does this himself but he was so judgmental of Tim?

In "Little Prince" they stormed in that crack house without any back up and not knowing who or how many guys with guns are in there, that wasn't strategic. They just kicked the door down and start firing like Harry Callahan.

Even Castillo knows that they can go against police procedure "No Heroes" Sonny said.

Forced liberal, written is what I heard. The writer deliberately written it that way.

This wasn't Crockett and Tubbs.

Edited May 25, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Christine]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb RedDragon86:

Apart from the obvious problems people might have with this episode, thats it too gritty or lacks any sort of style, I think the main problem with it is Crockett and Tubbs dramatic character change. It's a very liberal episode, the intro Sonny and Tubbs promoting some sort of community driven policing. Tubbs saying "Damn" after he shot dead one of the Escobar's who nearly killed him was out of character, I mean what happened to these guys all of a sudden? 

Amazingly the detective (Tim Duryea) is some how blamed for responding to a store being smashed up and the owner having a shotgun thrown in his face, Tim's partner is shot dead and Sonny later stating "He got his partner killed" utter rubbish! the criminals who shot him were responsible for his death end of. Tim and his partner like C&Ts do many times were reacting to violence on the streets, they weren't going to ignore it. Tim is treated very badly in this throughout.

Tubbs telling him at the end "you don't deserve to be a cop" was way out of line. I felt sorry for Tim.

I haven't watched it in years so I decided to watch this one last night, I usually skip it and go straight to "Made for Each Other" now I know why.

Terrible episode. 4/10

 

As for Tim Duryea, I must say the German translation is better than the original, because here Crockett says, "They killed his partner." This is more accurate and explains Tim's behavior, but it is important to remember that Tim's actions put Tubbs and the others in the old hotel in danger. Thanks to his impatience, the Escobars became aware that there were plenty of cops out there .
Because of him, they had to change their plans.
That Tubbs ended up mad at him and told him he didn't deserve to be a cop is understandable to me. How would we have reacted in his situation?

 

[Christine]

What we must never forget is: If the policemen wouldn't make such "mistakes" as in "The Maze" or if some bigger fish wouldn't slip through their fingers because something goes wrong, it would have been only half as exciting. Whether in a novel or a film, such things are important to build up a plot. 
In "The Maze," there's also the fact that Sonny starts out bragging about how well things are going in the area now that it's been cleaned up.
That the Escobars attack the poor shopkeeper on such an evening was fitting, almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

That's in a perfect world. The irony is Sonny sometimes does this himself but he was so judgmental of Tim?

In "Little Prince" they stormed in that crack house without any back up and not knowing who or how many guys with guns are in there, that wasn't strategic. They just kicked the door down and start firing like Harry Callahan.

Even Castillo knows that they can go against police procedure "No Heroes" Sonny said.

Forced liberal, written is what I heard. The writer deliberately written it that way.

This wasn't Crockett and Tubbs.

There are times that C&T maybe tried to take on too much, so-to-speak or didn’t always follow exact police procedures...but not to the incompetence and dangerous level Tim did...he put them all in danger by his rash choices. If C&T did make a non-procedural decision that put them in more danger sometimes...it was usually only involving ‘themselves’, not several other cops and/or people too.

Sometimes cops will “storm” a place if they know or think there’s people inside getting hurt or about to be hurt, and there’s no other way. But, storming it is still a plan in a way. C&T never ran wildly right into gun play, or stormed into a place without other cops knowing, or if it put other cops around them in mortal danger (if other cops were present or there).

When they did get involved in “wild” gun play, it was usually in self defense to try and get out of a situation & there was no other way. But, in this episode they had time and other choices to make to try and stop the Escobars...Tim’s stupidity ruined that, put them all in danger, and caused the death of his partner. 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

8 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

There are times that C&T maybe tried to take on too much, so-to-speak or didn’t always follow exact police procedures...but not to the incompetence and dangerous level Tim did...he put them all in danger by his rash choices. If C&T did make a non-procedural decision that put them in more danger sometimes...it was usually only involving ‘themselves’, not several other cops and/or people too.

Sometimes cops will “storm” a place if they know or think there’s people inside getting hurt or about to be hurt, and there’s no other way. But, storming it is still a plan in a way. C&T never ran wildly right into gun play, or stormed into a place without other cops knowing, or if it put other cops around them in mortal danger (if other cops were present or there).

When they did get involved in “wild” gun play, it was usually in self defense to try and get out of a situation & there was no other way. But, in this episode they had time and other choices to make to try and stop the Escobars...Tim’s stupidity ruined that, put them all in danger, and caused the death of his partner. 

Yeah, Tim Duryea operated on a whole different level than the Vice team, and it certainly wasn't a good level. Duryea really needed to take a step back and reassess his approach.

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Yeah, Tim Duryea operated on a whole different level than the Vice team, and it certainly wasn't a good level. Duryea really needed to take a step back and reassess his approach.

Exactly! He didn’t think or act competently...he charged in like John Wayne and it put everyone in danger. It ultimately got his partner killed. 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

3 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Exactly! He didn’t think or act competently...he charged in like John Wayne and it put everyone in danger. It ultimately got his partner killed. 

Yeah, I mean, what was that, booking on a full run down the street like that? He should've just painted white circles around himself, since he was such an open target.