Episode #17 "The Maze"

[RedDragon86]

Thing is Tim and his partner didn't even know they were armed until the last minute.

The lack of sympathy towards him throughout this abysmal episode was harsh I thought.

33 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

There are times that C&T maybe tried to take on too much, so-to-speak or didn’t always follow exact police procedures...but not to the incompetence and dangerous level Tim did...he put them all in danger by his rash choices. If C&T did make a non-procedural decision that put them in more danger sometimes...it was usually only involving ‘themselves’, not several other cops and/or people too.

Sometimes cops will “storm” a place if they know or think there’s people inside getting hurt or about to be hurt, and there’s no other way. But, storming it is still a plan in a way. C&T never ran wildly right into gun play, or stormed into a place without other cops knowing, or if it put other cops around them in mortal danger (if other cops were present or there).

When they did get involved in “wild” gun play, it was usually in self defense to try and get out of a situation & there was no other way. But, in this episode they had time and other choices to make to try and stop the Escobars...Tim’s stupidity ruined that, put them all in danger, and caused the death of his partner. 

They did in the previous episode, even Marty didn't know they were heading for Traynor's place.

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Thing is Tim and his partner didn't even know they were armed until the last minute.

The lack of sympathy towards him throughout this abysmal episode was harsh I thought.

They did in the previous episode, even Marty didn't know they were heading for Traynor's place.

They knew the Escobars were armed...they were a known violent gang. And even if they didn’t see guns right away, they ALWAYS should assume they are armed & approach the situation as safely and intelligently as you can...especially if there are other cops or people involved. Again, Tim didn’t do that and just charged in like the proverbial ‘cavalry’—and put them all in danger, not just himself.

In “Rites of Passage” C&T went on their own to Traynor’s, true...but that was to try and stop Valerie from killing, and to try and save her if possible. The decision had to be made quickly...but, they still made the decision together, went in together, and there were not other cops or people involved. If their decision had involved other cops or innocent bystanders, and put them in danger, Val or not they wouldn’t have done it. But, it only involved themselves. 

[RedDragon86]

5 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

They knew the Escobars were armed...they were a known violent gang. And even if they didn’t see guns right away, they ALWAYS should assume they are armed & approach the situation as safely and intelligently as you can...especially if there are other cops or people involved. Again, Tim didn’t do that and just charged in like the proverbial ‘cavalry’—and put them all in danger, not just himself.

In “Rites of Passage” C&T went on their own to Traynor’s, true...but that was to try and stop Valerie from killing, and to try and save her if possible. The decision had to be made quickly...but, they still made the decision together, went in together, and there were not other cops or people involved. If their decision had involved other cops or innocent bystanders, and put them in danger, Val or not they wouldn’t have done it. But, it only involved themselves. 

In that very moment when they heard glass smashing how did they know they were the Escobars? and Tim partner in the last second said "Duryea he's got a gun!" meaning they didn't know while running half way.

Edited May 25, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

Thing is Tim and his partner didn't even know they were armed until the last minute.

The lack of sympathy towards him throughout this abysmal episode was harsh I thought.

They did in the previous episode, even Marty didn't know they were heading for Traynor's place.

Yeah, but Duryea was already acting weird & dismissive (towards the plight of the suffering) before the shootout. He was being all Kim Carnes, all Crazy in the Night. Besides, an officer should always be prepared for an armed suspect scenario (heck, I had a gun point at me by a copper when they received some bad info on me not supposed to be on a certain property, a property that my family lived at since 1993-the gun thing was 2019).

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, RedDragon86 said:

I did they know they were the Escobars? and Tim partner in the last second said "Duryea he's got a gun!"

I think they knew it was the Escobars...they knew who to go look for afterwards. But, again whether or not they knew it was the Escobars, or saw a gun right away or later...cops would always assume & approach robbers or suspects as if they are armed.

They should & could have quietly approached the thugs while they were smasin’ & grabin’, and positioned themselves behind something for cover, before announcing cops were there & try to stop them. Instead Tim charged/rushed them & prevented his partner and C&T from getting good cover & put them all in danger. 

[RedDragon86]

I will never watch this ever again, its just so bad on so many levels, I was waiting for Quincy to turn up and give one of his preachy liberal speeches in the swat room. "These poor kids need a second chance to turn their lives around, because they never had a chance in the first place!"

It also feels like I watching one those missing episodes at the end of season 5.

[ViceFanMan]

50 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I will never watch this ever again, its just so bad on so many levels, I was waiting for Quincy to turn up and give one of his preachy liberal speeches in the swat room. "These poor kids need a second chance to turn their lives around, because they never had a chance in the first place!"

It also feels like I watching one those missing episodes at the end of season 5.

Everyone has their likes & dislikes.  However, I don’t see this as the cops feeling bad or “bleeding-heart”-like for the Escobars. They knew they were dangerous, violent criminals that had to be stopped. But, thanks to Tim, they found themselves in the crazy situation to try & do it in. 

There was actually only 1 missing or “lost” episode in Season 5 (“Too Much Too Late”). The other three episodes that some think were ‘lost’ ones too, actually did air on the network & in the show’s original time-slot...they were just aired after “Freefall”, going into June of 1989. This was because NBC aired the show’s finale, but still had three other episodes to contractually air. So many thought the show was completely done after “Freefall”, and didn’t know three more episodes did air later. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Jack Gretsky]

The teaser is Vice in a nutshell: Nighttime lit by shiny lights, sudden violence breaks out, glass is shattered, a cop goes down, a new adventure is underway.  Jay O. Sanders is really dead-on as a jerk cop.  A good club scene with good-lookin' women as Crockett & Tubbs troll Pepe for info.  

The derelict building that is "the maze" is bizarre - like something (aside from its white exterior) from a big dirty inner city transplanted to paradise.  According to Miami Vice Wiki that hotel was demolished just two years later.  Nice that MV was able to use it a couple of times.  

At "The Maze" we hear one of my special favorite music cues.  It occurs when Gabriella is swaying around dreamily while the youngest Escobar is mesmerized by her. A beautiful & haunting moment.  Oddly, this cue is entitled "Maria's Dance," but it's actually in this episode where it's first heard. 

A good show; I like these types of "people thrown together in an enclosed space" tales. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[Jack Gretsky]

On 3/15/2021 at 8:48 PM, ViceFanMan said:

I’ve tried to find as much history about the Blue Waters as I could in years past. From what I could find, I don’t think the old hotel had been technically abandoned and/or closed as long as it appeared in the episode. I believe the hotel (by this time very run down and probably catering to mostly homeless & rooms by the hour) was officially shut down in the early 80s...possibly 1981.

It probably was taken over by homeless and druggies for the next few years, and eventually it was slated for demolition. I think production crew was given permission to do to it what they wanted to it for filming...adding destruction and graffiti to make it more ‘abandoned’ for “The Maze”.

Eventually they were able to use the outside or exterior again for “French Twist”—even setting off a small explosion. Sadly the Blue Waters was finally demolished in 1987. A high rise condominium building now stands in its place. I have several vintage postcards of The Blue Waters in its heyday...40s thru 60s. Pretty nice hotel in its day, and right on the ocean! 

Thank you, ViceFanMan, for these vintage Blue Waters pics.  Rather sad that it was already on its last legs by the time of Vice. 

[ViceFanMan]

30 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said:

The teaser is Vice in a nutshell: Nighttime lit by shiny lights, sudden violence breaks out, glass is shattered, a cop goes down, a new adventure is underway.  Jay O. Sanders is really dead-on as a jerk cop.  A good club scene with good-lookin' women as Crockett & Tubbs troll Pepe for info.  

The derelict building that is "the maze" is bizarre - like something (aside from its white exterior) from a big dirty inner city transplanted to paradise.  According to Miami Vice Wiki that hotel was demolished just two years later.  Nice that MV was able to use it a couple of times.  

At "The Maze" we hear one of my special favorite music cues.  It occurs when Gabriella is swaying around dreamily while the youngest Escobar is mesmerized by her. A beautiful & haunting moment.  Oddly, this cue is entitled "Maria's Dance," but it's actually in this episode where it's first heard. 

A good show; I like these types of "people thrown together in an enclosed space" tales. 

Sometimes, for unknown reasons to us, names are changed for guest characters at the last minute. Maybe the girl was originally named Maria, but they chose to change it to Gabriella when actual filming took place? This little melody was used several times in later episodes.

I typically don’t like episodes of shows where the characters are stuck or trapped in one place...the whole episode is all about getting the main characters out, and they’re very predictable.  However, this one has some other aspects that still make it interesting and enjoyable—the abandoned Blue Waters, the colors, the music, and even the action.  

[ViceFanMan]

13 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said:

Thank you, ViceFanMan, for these vintage Blue Waters pics.  Rather sad that it was already on its last legs by the time of Vice. 

Yeah, wish the old hotel could have been saved. It, and The Floridian (used in the beginning of “Smuggler’s Blues”), were both demolished in 1987. 

[ViceFanMan]

Found some cool artwork regarding "The Maze" online. Not the strongest or most memorable episode of Season 1 for sure...but still has some enjoyable aspects. I thought this collage of sorts was kind of cool, as it has the old Blue Waters Hotel overshadowing everyone/everything--as it was the 'maze', and was a main focal point of the episode.