Episode #87 "Blood & Roses"

[AndrewRemington]

This was a very enjoyable episode. It was good to see Frank Mosca finally get caught/killed. Of course Stanley Tucci is a very good actor and very likable, but you wanted to see some justice served on him. The dummy drop ending didn’t bother me too much, but you’d think they could have made it a bit more realistic. I don’t have any sore feelings about it. There are still modern shows/movies with really cheesy fake effects, but I still prefer practical effects over CGI.

[Glades]

I really like the episode, Mosca is one of my favorite villains!

When I watched "Blood and Roses" again, I noticed something in Gina and Trudy's conversation after Gina spent the night with Mosca.  I'm not quite sure if I'm interpreting too much into it: But I have the impression that Gina was too deep UC. That she was her cover, had no more distance between her own person and the cover and that this cover actually wanted to have sex with Mosca.Trudy finds excuses (alcohol) for Gina, but Gina clearly rejects them. And Gina seems more horrified about herself, about what she did willingly, than about what Mosca did. Mosca is not of a big importance in this conversation.

Concerning this, the last scene would really make sense too, when Mosca flees in this funny elevator and Gina and Sonny follow him. At first sight I found the scene cool but quite "unrealistic". Especially that Sonny takes the risk to follow Mosca very unprotected in this elevator. But under the assumption that Gina was too deep UC, it definitely makes sense.

First of all of course it must be Gina who chases and shoot Mosca. She has to redeem herself from her failure of having identified herself too much with her cover. Second, it makes sense that Gina has to follow Mosca from "too deep UC" up in her consciousness to be able to defeat him. Sonny also follows Mosca upwards, but takes the elevator, where he lets himself be carried passively upwards, while Gina actively climbs the stairs on her own. (But maybe that last interpretation goes a bit too far...) This also may explain the glance at the end between Gina and Sonny. Gina is horrified about herself and for Sonny the possibility of being too deep UC is an always real and frightening possibility.

And we all know what´s coming soon...

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Glades

[Tom]

I also think that she somehow wanted it to happen and hates herself for that.

There is no logical explanation for her free give away to Mosca. He was actively making a pass on her since the first moment and was hooked. She could see that. She could have easily teased him for some time without sleeping with him to get everything from him she wanted. The Night with him was contraproductive as after that he got what he wanted and was able to kill her. Before reaching his goal he would not have killed her. That was his macho logic.

[Glades]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

He was actively making a pass on her since the first moment and was hooked. She could see that. She could have easily teased him for some time without sleeping with him to get everything from him she wanted. The Night with him was contraproductive as after that he got what he wanted and was able to kill her. Before reaching his goal he would not have killed her. That was his macho logic.

So you think Mosca would have try to kill Gina anyway? Not just because after he found out she was a cop?
He found out she was a cop after their night together. And I got the impression Mosca was changed after this information. And that before this he was really attracted from Gina.

[Tom]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Glades:

So you think Mosca would have try to kill Gina anyway? Not just because after he found out she was a cop?
He found out she was a cop after their night together. And I got the impression Mosca was changed after this information. And that before this he was really attracted from Gina.

I think it would have been safer for Gina to tease him longer. Kind of life insurance. Keeping him hanging, would have spurred Mosca‘s attempt to win her over and even if he had found out about her real identity in that period he would not have killed her before having sex with her. She was his trophy and he would have used it as additional humiliation. Once he had her, there was no reason for him to keep her alive once he found out. 

[Robbie C.]

Maybe the writer wanted to use a version of what happened to/with Valerie in "Prodigal Son"? After all, they did have Valerie getting in way too deep with her UC identity there as well. Gina is the perfect character for this, because she always skirted the line (When Irish Eyes... anyone?) when she was in those kind of roles or even on the edges of them.

[Glades]

34 minutes ago, Tom said:

I think it would have been safer for Gina to tease him longer. Kind of life insurance. Keeping him hanging, would have spurred Mosca‘s attempt to win her over and even if he had found out about her real identity in that period he would not have killed her before having sex with her. She was his trophy and he would have used it as additional humiliation. Once he had her, there was no reason for him to keep her alive once he found out. 

I agree with you. And I think Gina was too deep UC to act professional as a cop. She acted as if she would actually be her cover and not a cop and therefore not to be in danger that Mosca would harm her. She had in some way "forgotten" she´s a cop.

21 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Maybe the writer wanted to use a version of what happened to/with Valerie in "Prodigal Son"? After all, they did have Valerie getting in way too deep with her UC identity there as well. Gina is the perfect character for this, because she always skirted the line (When Irish Eyes... anyone?) when she was in those kind of roles or even on the edges of them.

Yeah, there are quite a lot episodes about a cop being too deep UC!

I think this one is special because it's Gina who is too deep UC and who has a special relationship with Sonny, he cares about her a lot. And because there are only 2 episodes left until the Burnett-Arc. It's a hint to the Burnett-Arc, to what will happen to Sonny.

[Robbie C.]

43 minutes ago, Glades said:

I think this one is special because it's Gina who is too deep UC and who has a special relationship with Sonny, he cares about her a lot. And because there are only 2 episodes left until the Burnett-Arc. It's a hint to the Burnett-Arc, to what will happen to Sonny.

I tend to think the biggest hint about Burnett was actually Heart of Darkness and Artie Rollins. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that episode had at least something to do with the inspiration for the arc. That, Evan, and Deliver Us From Evil draw a fairly straight line. One could even contend that Definitely Miami is a bit of a pointer because Callie only sees Sonny as Burnett and frames her entire pitch around that. So we see the end result of getting in too deep, some of the things that might push a cop to get in too deep (and a direct warning to Sonny by Evan), Sonny stepping over his own line, and a case where someone sees only Burnett when dealing with Sonny (and he never really corrects her, at least not verbally). We also have Death and the Lady, which ends with Crockett first crossing one of his lines (a precursor to Deliver Us From Evil).

[Glades]

Yes, there is indeed a complex net of hints to the Brunett-arc from different angles! And Gina not as explicit as Artie Rollins but  a very personel one because she´s very close to Crockett.

On 8/30/2020 at 6:33 PM, Robbie C. said:

We also have Death and the Lady, which ends with Crockett first crossing one of his lines (a precursor to Deliver Us From Evil).

Probably you mean the slapping of Glantz is a form of vigilante, right?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Glades

[Robbie C.]

32 minutes ago, Glades said:

Yes, there are is indee complex net of hints to the Brunett-arc from different angles! And Gina not as explicit as Artie Rollins but  a very personel one because she´s very close to Crockett.

Probably you mean the slapping of Glantz is a form of vigilante, right?

Yes, I did.

[Tom]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Robbie C.:

We also have Death and the Lady, which ends with Crockett first crossing one of his lines (a precursor to Deliver Us From Evil).

Retrospectively, they started in season 3 (Forgive us our debts, the swimming pool beating and Viking bikers - the bar scene) and then even more  in early season 4 to show Crockett´s frustration by overstepping the line. Death and the lady was first, Child´s play where he was smacking Holiday around much beyond undercover necessities was next. Then, a bit off-competition is punching the reporter in Hard Rock. In Line of Fire he attacked the attorney in public. Also verbally, he started to become aggressive in season 4 and 5. He was always cynical and direct, but now he became openly aggressive ("Hit the bricks bozo" in front of the deputy commissioner in Vote of confidence, "Looks like a cattle prod specialist to me", etc.

With Deliver us from evil/Mirror image Crockett was broken and in season 5 a lot of episode openly show that he is disenchanted and wants his way out of the job as he does not believe in the purpose anymore (explicitly mentioned in Bad Timing and Miami Squeeze).

[Robbie C.]

I tend to think quite a bit of this was actually unintentional, though. Probably writers drawing inspiration from episodes that had come before and happened to fall into the pattern we see in hindsight. Maybe Yerkovich had something like this in mind when he created Sonny (since we have so many hints and teasers in the first season), but then it fell away as style took over in the second and came back in the third and subsequent seasons. It also ties in with a shift in what we see of Burnett's persona, going from a good times boat guy to something darker and more serious.

[Tom]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Robbie C.:

I tend to think quite a bit of this was actually unintentional, though. Probably writers drawing inspiration from episodes that had come before and happened to fall into the pattern we see in hindsight. Maybe Yerkovich had something like this in mind when he created Sonny (since we have so many hints and teasers in the first season), but then it fell away as style took over in the second and came back in the third and subsequent seasons. It also ties in with a shift in what we see of Burnett's persona, going from a good times boat guy to something darker and more serious.

It might be that there was no master plan on this long term character development. Also the writers changed, but many scipts in season 3 and 4 were written by the same crew around Dick Wolf.

But the fascination of the Mann/Yerkovich to show how vulnerable undercover cops are - working on the edge for a long time -  was always there from the beginning, in the pilot first (Scott Wheeler, Crockett´s divorce). A few of the best episodes deal with that (Heart of Darkness, Evan, Out where the buses don´t run, Knock knock who´s there, Streetwise, Red Tape, ..)

[Robbie C.]

That's what I said, actually. I don't think that kind of thing interested Mann as much (at least when it came to Vice), but it clearly did hold Yerkovich's interest.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

An episode that I don't think helped Crockett's psyche was 'Shadow in the Dark', when he put himself into the mind of the raw meat eater/Shadow. I mean, Crockett really went for it there, and his conversation with Castillo in the coffee shop how he had his days and nights turned around, and he thinks that he can now sneak up on the day...just the way he speaks there, it's like he's hanging by a thread and for me it was chilling. Then there's Hackman! Oh man, talk about trying to do what is thought to be the right thing and getting burned.

For Gina in this episode here, it looks to me like part of her (well, maybe a couple parts of her, he he) were attracted to Mosca (I believe he did have a dark charisma), and the situation kind of took on a life of its own. "I can handle it...I can handle him"...Aw, Gina. Not her fault really because a big part of her job is being confident & brave, but I think she underestimated the intensity of the situation. Then again, even though she was tormented by what already took place by then, she had a solid cover (an alumna? Go Gina!) until that weak Fed dropped her name before Billy gave him a higher perspective on things.

One silly thing for me in this episode: I feel that Frank Stallone's character should've been given a different name other than Billy. I know Stanley Tucci has Stallone's real name here, but Billy to me is someone who one plays backyard baseball with. Frank Stallone looks more like a Vic or an Angelo to me.

[vicegirl85]

6 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

(snipped)  For Gina in this episode here, it looks to me like part of her (well, maybe a couple parts of her, he he) were attracted to Mosca (I believe he did have a dark charisma), and the situation kind of took on a life of its own. "I can handle it...I can handle him"...Aw, Gina. Not her fault really because a big part of her job is being confident & brave, but I think she underestimated the intensity of the situation. Then again, even though she was tormented by what already took place by then, she had a solid cover (an alumna? Go Gina!) until that weak Fed dropped her name before Billy gave him a higher perspective on things.

I also felt that Gina had a bit of (possibly unwilling) attraction to Mosca.  And remember, the night she slept with Mosca was the same night Sonny came to her apartment before she went out, and they had a bit of a romantic moment--clearly they had no future as a couple at this point since Sonny was married to Caitlin, and she understood this.  But I think she still had that spark of feeling for him, and that weakened her resistance to Mosca.  I think she may not have let herself become intoxicated to the point where she gave herself to Mosca if Sonny hadn't stirred up some memories for her.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

I agree, vicegirl85, Crockett & her had a tender moment (I like how she jokingly said she'd have to break his thumbs if he was questioning her ability as cop; she said it very playfully and cute. I thought that whole scene was pretty great) that carried over to the Mosca outing. The conversation flowed (even Mosca's lip got a little loose, and Billy told him about it), as did the fine champagne. Now that I think of it, both Gina & Mosca were compromised in the whole situation, which I guess was a key element to the episode. Mosca talked all tough at the end, that he wasn't sure about her until he had her, but that was just rationalization & bluster. Once Mosca's dummy fell a few floors down in the spaghetti factory, that was the end of that:-).

[RedDragon86]

This is basically a rehash of "Give a Little, Take a Little" 

 

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

This is basically a rehash of "Give a Little, Take a Little" 

 

Mosca was a little more charming than Ramirez.   

[Bren10]

And it tied up a prior episode and character, so there's that too. Plus, Mosca may not really be dead. He might've just thrown a dummy down the chute.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

That's true Bren10; Mosca's no dummy, he may be a-ok.

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Mosca's no dummy

Quoted the episode, and made a joke all in one. 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

I agree Dadrian, I felt Mosca was a man of refinement and had a veneer of respectability, while Ramirez (to expand on a phrase Crockett once used) was King of the Sleaze Ball. In matter of fact, I can't think of many sleazier antagonists then him; I thought Grocero from 'Smuggler's Blues' was pretty sleazy, but Ramirez oozed it and owned it.

[Dadrian]

3 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Grocero

I believe that translates to “pervert”.  

[fakespyder]

Mosca deserved a better ending than this. Tucci played him so well with supreme confidence and violent flashes.

The main focus should've stayed on crockett's desire to get him for the death of his friend, rather than Gina's conflicted feelings for him.

Still there were some good scenes. The last scene looks even worse on Blu Ray where there's no way not to notice the dummy.