Episode #87 "Blood & Roses"

[Dadrian]

3 hours ago, fakespyder said:

Mosca deserved a better ending than this.

But he was a jerk to Gina 

[AndrewRemington]

Since they reused other songs more than once, why not use Smithereen’s “Blood & Roses” again? That is such a great song, but was used excellently in “The Savage/Duty & Honor.”

I’ve always wondered if Gina is part Italian as well, or her character was originally intended to be Italian-American? Calabrese is definitely an Italian surname. Of course, we know she is Cuban, but maybe some other relatives were Italian or her Cuban relatives originally came from there?

[Tom]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb fakespyder:

Mosca deserved a better ending than this.

You mean a cement bath instead of a profane bullet on the spaghetti elevator? 

[Dadrian]

32 minutes ago, AndrewRemington said:

Since they reused other songs more than once, why not use Smithereen’s “Blood & Roses” again? That is such a great song, but was used excellently in “The Savage/Duty & Honor.”

I’ve always wondered if Gina is part Italian as well, or her character was originally intended to be Italian-American? Calabrese is definitely an Italian surname. Of course, we know she is Cuban, but maybe some other relatives were Italian or her Cuban relatives originally came from there?

Maybe she was fostered by an Italian family in Miami after Klaus got her out of Cuba as a baby?

[Tom]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb AndrewRemington:

Since they reused other songs more than once, why not use Smithereen’s “Blood & Roses” again? That is such a great song, but was used excellently in “The Savage/Duty & Honor.”

A song name mutuality is IMHO not enough to use a song. It was a perfect fit in Duty and Honor but would not have fit at all - style and lyrics wise - for this episode. And, they never used songs twice, except for Born to be wild (which was a better fit in season 3 than at the boat race in season 1) and two memory/recently on Miami Vice occasions (Bullet for Crockett, Deliver us from evil), so we can say that were the few exceptions from the rule that confirm the rule. 

[fakespyder]

Just to make my remarks clear. When I said he deserved a better ending I didn't mean he shouldn't die or be arrested. I guess I was kind of dissappointed that a great villan was kind of wasted.

They set him up so well in the season opener. Felt like a wasted opportunity to me.

But, like I said, I enjoyed some scenes.

[sdiegolo78]

On 2/10/2021 at 2:39 PM, AndrewRemington said:

Since they reused other songs more than once, why not use Smithereen’s “Blood & Roses” again? That is such a great song, but was used excellently in “The Savage/Duty & Honor.”

I’ve always wondered if Gina is part Italian as well, or her character was originally intended to be Italian-American? Calabrese is definitely an Italian surname. Of course, we know she is Cuban, but maybe some other relatives were Italian or her Cuban relatives originally came from there?

Interesting question...I've been wondering the same....'Calabresi' to me sounds very Italian. It's very likely her ancestors came to Cuba all the way from Italy. However it's very clear from the series her heritage is latino, no indication of any possible italian connection (unlike Zito). In the 'Blood & roses' episode she goes undercover as some Italian-American from Philly to get closer to Mosca being of the same background.

Edited February 11, 2021 by sdiegolo78

[sdiegolo78]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:13 PM, Dadrian said:

Maybe she was fostered by an Italian family in Miami after Klaus got her out of Cuba as a baby?

That could be possible, but never mentioned in the canon story

[sdiegolo78]

22 hours ago, fakespyder said:

Just to make my remarks clear. When I said he deserved a better ending I didn't mean he shouldn't die or be arrested. I guess I was kind of dissappointed that a great villan was kind of wasted.

They set him up so well in the season opener. Felt like a wasted opportunity to me.

But, like I said, I enjoyed some scenes.

I agree Mosca had some potential as a character. I too would have liked him to come back later, perhaps on S5 at the same time with Lombard and Ribizzi, in a double feature episode

[RedDragon86]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:20 PM, Tom said:

A song name mutuality is IMHO not enough to use a song. It was a perfect fit in Duty and Honor but would not have fit at all - style and lyrics wise - for this episode. And, they never used songs twice, except for Born to be wild (which was a better fit in season 3 than at the boat race in season 1) and two memory/recently on Miami Vice occasions (Bullet for Crockett, Deliver us from evil), so we can say that were the few exceptions from the rule that confirm the rule. 

They used "Heaven" twice by Simply Red ("Trust Fund Pirates" and "Viking Bikers from Hell")

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb RedDragon86:

They used "Heaven" twice by Simply Red ("Trust Fund Pirates" and "Viking Bikers from Hell")

yeah, I forgot to mention that one, but it does not change the key argument that reuse was the exception and Blood and roses did not fit just because of the same name.

[RedDragon86]

Bass & Trouble by Sly and Robbie as well ("Bought & Paid For" then "Payback")

Just saying 

[Dadrian]

Own the Night...

Let’s get ‘em all while we’re at it  

[Tom]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Dadrian:

Own the Night...

Let’s get ‘em all while we’re at it  

I would prefer you guys would divert your inch pinching energy in location finding or other valuable add-on for the forum community. Just saying 

[sdiegolo78]

On 11/25/2019 at 1:30 AM, mjcmmv said:

I always liked this episode. Especially when Sonny visits Gina and tries to warn her about Mosca. The chemistry was still there! (sigh)

Yes chemistry still there! I believe the marriage with Caitlin was wrong on many levels and just a stunt by the writers to revive interest in the show during S4. Sonny and Caitlin ultimately were not compatible with each other...

[Tom]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb sdiegolo78:

Yes chemistry still there! I believe the marriage with Caitlin was wrong on many levels and just a stunt by the writers to revive interest in the show during S4. Sonny and Caitlin ultimately were not compatible with each other...

Chemistry between Gina and Sonny was there in early season 1, but got lost later (season 2-3) when they decided to spare out private lifes of Crockett&Tubby completely, except for the Theresa and Hooker interlude and the teaser of Walk-alone and a short half-hug in When Irish eyes are crying.

The Caitlin arc was at least one attempt to apply some character development=personal addition to Crockett´s life and was never meant to stay for long (they showed often enough in the series why marriage and undercover work does not fit together).

So, my point is: even if you don´t like Sheena Easton as a type or the whole Caitlin idea at all, it was at least a  long overdue move to end the abnormal and complete ignorance on the team members character development that was applied between early season 2 (Dutch Oven) and early season 4 (Child´s play) and was also reason why John Diehl wanted out as Zito.

What I found absolutely ridiculous is that Crockett wanted to "confess" to Gina in private in Like a hurricane about the planned wedding, as their affair has been completely ignored for 70 episodes. And, as if Gina wanted to backfire on this ignorance by the writers, she replied something like "Why would I bother now?". LOL, au contraire Gina!

[sdiegolo78]

On 8/30/2020 at 9:52 AM, Glades said:

This also may explain the glance at the end between Gina and Sonny. Gina is horrified about herself and for Sonny the possibility of being too deep UC is an always real and frightening possibility.

And we all know what´s coming soon...

A recurring theme throughout the series from the early days ("Heart of Darkness").

[Adrian321]

I guess I am again the holder of the "unpopular" opinion. IMO, this episode deserves a 7.5/10. And I certainly agree that Gina's involvement is a "Recipe for dissaster". If it wasn't for Gina's acting level, this episode could be a 9/10, since the plot is not that bad.

I give it a 7.5 because : We get the end of the first villan of this season, that Testarossa scene with Dangerous Game playing in background, had a fairly fresh athmosphere, we get to see Gina fucking it up again; litteraly (As the character she plays) like back in S1, fairly decent music, AND; atleast Gina looked vissualy good (Even if her cardboard acting-skill made this episode cringe for a good part). 

[sdiegolo78]

I decided to watch this after a Lombard episode to continue the MV mafia saga (already watched 'contempt of court' after 'one eyed jack'). Interesting to see the difference between Mosca and Lombard, mobs from different mafia generations and values. The former has a very similar vibe to Librizzi, same sort of slimeball.

I think Mosca's suspicions about Gina were confirmed when Crockett showed up after the staged shooting. And we saw a corrupt FBI agent, under duress, leaked the info. The DA guy who showed up in Castillo office with the female prosecutor from 'Contempt of court' (kudos for continuity here ) was on the take too.

After the first date night, you can see from her face she is uncomfortable and disgusted when Mosca makes his move and she let herself go after putting up some resistance. She had to maintain her cover after all and not raise any suspicion that could jeopardize the operation. Plus she had been warned by Sonny before she decided to go all the way about Mosca being a psycho. And the fact Frank was intoxicated it didn't help. Next day, when she came back to her senses she resented that. Her rational part hated Mosca, while the more subconscious took over the previous night. Compared to 'Give a little take a little', she felt outright repulsion for Lupo Ramirez, being an old and unattractive pervert. While Mosca, as despicable and vicious person as he was, at least was good looking and charming Italian on the outside.

The look at the end between Sonny and Gina could be interpreted in different ways. I think he was thanking Gina for saving his back as Mosca had a clear shot on him.And her just looking at him still feeling that attraction.

By the way, why the hell did Sonny go up the elevator? That was a retarded thing to do!

Since i truly enjoyed this episode, i feel giving a 6.5 score. Not quite in the same league as the best episodes quality wise. Loved the Jan Hammer/John Petersen music cues. Very appropriate for the story and conveying that tension for the Gina - F.Mosca scenes.

 

 

 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 2/10/2021 at 9:39 AM, AndrewRemington said:

Since they reused other songs more than once, why not use Smithereen’s “Blood & Roses” again? That is such a great song, but was used excellently in “The Savage/Duty & Honor.”

I’ve always wondered if Gina is part Italian as well, or her character was originally intended to be Italian-American? Calabrese is definitely an Italian surname. Of course, we know she is Cuban, but maybe some other relatives were Italian or her Cuban relatives originally came from there?

Good question, I always thought "Calabrese" was a highly Italian name, but I think Gina can pass for Latina, Italian, or a mix. I like her cover.

 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

I know Mosca had to feel like like a dummy for getting killed in the spaghetti elevator, but he kept going to that darn location, like when he had Billy hang up the dirty Fed. C'mon Frank, use some imagination! I did think Mosca was a pretty cool, smooth, and, yes, likeable bad guy though, but I'm fine with how he was dispatched (clearly, a trial wouldn't do it for him:-). Also, if Mosca did his homework on the REAL Gina, he'd discover that she shoots flames...former flames.

[sdiegolo78]

3 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Good question, I always thought "Calabrese" was a highly Italian name, but I think Gina can pass for Latina, Italian, or a mix. I like her cover.

 

yeah Saundra Santiago was so beautiful she could be any of those or a mix with the best features of each ethnic group.

[sdiegolo78]

3 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Also, if Mosca did his homework on the REAL Gina, he'd discover that she shoots flames...former flames

Mosca was tipped by the corrupt FBI agent an undercover Vice cop was close to him. He asked when, cause he'd met Gina recently. Go figure.

Edited April 22, 2021 by sdiegolo78

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

1 minute ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Mosca was tipped by the corrupt FBI agent an undercover Vice cop (Gina) was close to him. He asked when, cause he'd met Gina recently. Go figure.

Yeah, Mosca took a risk keeping Gina close by when he had his suspicions, and got burned for it. I think he really did like her, and that was part of the problem, but also why I feel the episode works, since there's emotional tension there.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

1 minute ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Yeah, Mosca took a risk keeping Gina close by when he had his suspicions, and got burned for it. I think he really did like her, and that was part of the problem, but also why I feel the episode works, since there's emotional tension there.

Also, I think it's good that the episode wasn't Crockett vs. Mosca, it added another layer to things. Crockett was able to voice his opinion about Frank and his qualities, so that was good!