Episode #80 "The Cows Of October"

[Robbie C.]

11 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

I remember the Reagan era well - and how he was instrumental in bringing down the evil empire of the Soviet Union.  Not ridiculous at all. 

I think I have more of a tolerance for Miami Vice going screwball than some of the others here in this thread, lol.  Nevertheless, although I found it watchable, Cows of October is still a bit too pokey. (Cow-pokey?) Not a likely entry on my Season 4 Top 5 list.  Better than Missing Hours, not as good as The Big Thaw.  

I'm also reminded of the mangled definition of artificial insemination - "It's when the farmer does it to the cow and not the bull."

That's not the point. I was more framing the relevance of an episode like "Cows" against the Reagan era. Vice always had an anti-establishment streak in its writing, and this episode is one example of that. It was a strange episode, but I do prefer it to some of the tripe that floated out in earlier episodes.

[ViceFanMan]

16 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

Cows of October is still a bit too pokey. (Cow-pokey?) Not a likely entry on my Season 4 Top 5 list.  Better than Missing Hours, not as good as The Big Thaw.

Referring back to this, I totally agree that “Cows” is not a top Season 4 episode...nor a top one period! It’s the 2nd worst episode of the show (only 2nd to Missing Hours), in my opinion. If you want MV screwball, then The Big Thaw is better than either of those two, lol! 

The first 2 seasons (Season 2 being the best overall in my opinion) were superb, and true MV—what the show was truly all about!   Season 3 (with new writers) started “teeter-tottering” on the proverbial fence of one side original/‘real’ MV & the other side strange and non-MV things. There were still some pretty good episodes in Season 3, but there were some changes that were definitely noticeable & didn’t go over quite as well.

Season 4 for the most part leaned a lot further towards the strange & “no longer MV” side, and Season 5 pretty much hit the ground on that side of the ‘fence’ and possibly even dug a little ways into that ground.  

Although there were still some good episodes “sprinkled” throughout Seasons 4 & 5, they sadly were MUCH fewer & far between.  

Edited September 5, 2020 by ViceFanMan

[Jack Gretsky]

3 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Referring back to this, I totally agree that “Cows” is not a top Season 4 episode...nor a top one period! It’s the 2nd worst episode of the show (only 2nd to Missing Hours), in my opinion. If you want MV screwball, then The Big Thaw is better than either of those two, lol! 

The first 2 seasons (Season 2 being the best overall in my opinion) were superb, and true MV—what the show was truly all about!   Season 3 (with new writers) started “teeter-tottering” on the proverbial fence of one side original/‘real’ MV & the other side strange and non-MV things. There were still some pretty good episodes in Season 3, but there were some changes that were definitely noticeable & didn’t go over quite as well.

Season 4 for the most part leaned a lot further towards the strange & “no longer MV” side, and Season 5 pretty much hit the ground on that side of the ‘fence’ and possibly even dug a little ways into that ground.  

Although there were still some good episodes “sprinkled” throughout Seasons 4 & 5, they sadly were MUCH fewer & far between.  

I'm in agreement with your assessment of the MV seasons - although I haven't gotten to my Season 5 rewatch yet.  I do know I've always liked the uber-weird "Cell Within" and the hokey "Leap of Faith" backdoor pilot, so maybe S5 will be a step up from S4 for me!  

[ViceFanMan]

39 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said:

I'm in agreement with your assessment of the MV seasons - although I haven't gotten to my Season 5 rewatch yet.  I do know I've always liked the uber-weird "Cell Within" and the hokey "Leap of Faith" backdoor pilot, so maybe S5 will be a step up from S4 for me!  

Cell Within is pretty “dark” and wild!   However, I’ll be honest and say I don’t care for the spin-off pilot attempt of Leap of Faith, but to each his or her own.  Miracle Man is another one that wasn’t worth making, in my opinion.   But, there are a few good episodes in Seasons 4 & 5...just not enough to bring the show back to where it originally was. 

[RedDragon86]

Season 5 is better than 4 imo, much more consistent and had better direction.

 

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Season 5 is better than 4 imo, much more consistent and had better direction.

 

This could very well be true...I think they were desperately trying to save the show & were trying to fix some things. But sadly, it was too little too late. Several of the plots/episodes were so bad, bizarre, and ridiculous that the show just tanked.  

The last 3 episodes (World of Trouble, Miracle Man, & Leap of Faith) actually aired after Freefall—which was aired as the series finale. But those other 3 aired after it, going into June of 1989. I wonder how many fans knew there were technically still a few more episodes (that I’m assuming had to still contractually be aired by the network) once Freefall aired?

Although I think those 3 episodes are pretty “poor”, by that time the show had already been cancelled...so as bad as they were, they actually probably had no bearing on the bad ratings at the end.  

[pahonu]

7 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

That's not the point. I was more framing the relevance of an episode like "Cows" against the Reagan era. Vice always had an anti-establishment streak in its writing, and this episode is one example of that. It was a strange episode, but I do prefer it to some of the tripe that floated out in earlier episodes.

The title alone leads me to think the writer(s) were taking a sarcastic and critical tone about the sometimes ridiculous excesses of Cold War competition.  It appears to be referencing the film The Missiles of October about Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Many were critical at the time of Reagan’s re-escalation of Cold War tensions after Nixon and Détente.  

[Robbie C.]

I have no doubt that's what it was doing.

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

I have no doubt that's what it was doing.

I was just surprised that some seemed to read your comment as the episode being supportive of the Reagan administration’s foreign policy.  The Maynard episodes also call these policy decisions into question.  I suppose those episodes, being more straightforward drama, are a little more obvious.  The very concept of comparing the bull semen storyline with the Cuban Missile Crisis is such extreme satire.  I know many here enjoy the show on the level of police drama, but the anti-establishment streak you mention is very real and appears throughout the series.  The whole premise of the show and drug enforcement is called into question many times in the comparison of it to a game of whack-a-mole.

[RedDragon86]

Viewing this was like watching an episode of a corny TV show like Magnum PI, Quantum Leap or The A-Team.

A groundbreaking series like ours shouldn't have touched this material.

 

 

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb RedDragon86:

Viewing this was like watching an episode of a corny TV show like Magnum PI, Quantum Leap or The A-Team.

A groundbreaking series like ours shouldn't have touched this material.

For me that was just the result of someone (new?) high up trying to be extra funny or going the "That´s a great show, but let´s try something new ..." route...

[ViceFanMan]

23 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Viewing this was like watching an episode of a corny TV show like Magnum PI, Quantum Leap or The A-Team.

A groundbreaking series like ours shouldn't have touched this material.

 

 

I  agree that MV should not have done an episode as stupid as this... even worse being “Missing”. 

 However, I have to disagree about Magnum, p.i. Magnum was actually one of the first shows of the 80s (it started in 1980...took over the production facilities in Hawaii from the original Hawaii Five-0) that truly had character depth! There were a few “silly” or more “light” episodes, or scenes in episodes, once in a while...but overall Magnum was more serious and truly went into the characters’ lives. 

Some episodes were very “dark” (for the time) and were even controversial...there were sad, scary, and troubling times, along with the funny. You truly could relate to and understand the characters...you cared about them.

In all honesty,  as much as I absolutely love MV, Magnum probably had more character depth than MV. MV was more about groundbreaking visuals which had never been done before (music, colors, fashion, cars, background buildings, etc...) than character depth.  Yes, we saw some of MV’s characters’ lives and personal issues...but the majority of each episode was more about visual aspects. 

Both shows were groundbreaking for their time, and both are TV icons of the 80s & the art of television!  

I agree...The A-Team (although I loved it too growing up) and Quantum Leap were much more corny and unrealistic. 

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

I  agree that MV should not have done an episode as stupid as this... even worse being “Missing”. 

 However, I have to disagree about Magnum, p.i. Magnum was actually one of the first shows of the 80s (it started in 1980...took over the production facilities in Hawaii from the original Hawaii Five-0) that truly had character depth! There were a few “silly” or more “light” episodes, or scenes in episodes, once in a while...but overall Magnum was more serious and truly went into the characters’ lives. 

Some episodes were very “dark” (for the time) and were even controversial...there were sad, scary, and troubling times, along with the funny. You truly could relate to and understand the characters...you cared about them.

In all honesty,  as much as I absolutely love MV, Magnum probably had more character depth than MV. MV was more about groundbreaking visuals which had never been done before (music, colors, fashion, cars, background buildings, etc...) than character depth.  Yes, we saw some of MV’s characters’ lives and personal issues...but the majority of each episode was more about visual aspects. 

Both shows were groundbreaking for their time, and both are TV icons of the 80s & the art of television!  

I agree...The A-Team (although I loved it too growing up) and Quantum Leap were much more corny and unrealistic. 

I agree with you about Magnum pi.  While lots of people think it was nothing more than Tom Selleck beefcake in Hawaii, the character development was significant, much more in depth than MV.  Also, it was one of the first positive portrayals of a Vietnam veteran on screen, and perhaps the first on TV.  This, at a time when the war was still a raw subject in the US being just 5 years after the fall of Saigon. Typical storylines on network television focused only on the troubled vet damaged by a war that divided the nation.

[Robbie C.]

51 minutes ago, pahonu said:

I agree with you about Magnum pi.  While lots of people think it was nothing more than Tom Selleck beefcake in Hawaii, the character development was significant, much more in depth than MV.  Also, it was one of the first positive portrayals of a Vietnam veteran on screen, and perhaps the first on TV.  This, at a time when the war was still a raw subject in the US being just 5 years after the fall of Saigon. Typical storylines on network television focused only on the troubled vet damaged by a war that divided the nation.

It wasn't the first on TV, but it was the first to show a veteran in a well-adjusted light. Vega$ had a main character who served in Vietnam, even though it was a subdued part of his background. It hit two years or so before Magnum, but both were part of that wave of Vietnam vets on TV who weren't painted instantly as crazy.

[pahonu]

24 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

It wasn't the first on TV, but it was the first to show a veteran in a well-adjusted light. Vega$ had a main character who served in Vietnam, even though it was a subdued part of his background. It hit two years or so before Magnum, but both were part of that wave of Vietnam vets on TV who weren't painted instantly as crazy.

I do remember episodes that referenced Dan Tana as being a Vietnam Vet, but you’re right, it wasn’t front and center.  Conversely, the Thomas Magnum character has a flashback to Vietnam in the opening scene of the whole series and the entire pilot’s story is centered around the death of a fellow vet, and his buddies helping him in his investigation are both portrayed in Vietnam flashbacks, as is the ultimate villain of the episode.  You couldn’t miss it. Glad I wrote that perhaps it was the first! 

Edited January 21, 2021 by pahonu

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, pahonu said:

I agree with you about Magnum pi.  While lots of people think it was nothing more than Tom Selleck beefcake in Hawaii, the character development was significant, much more in depth than MV.  Also, it was one of the first positive portrayals of a Vietnam veteran on screen, and perhaps the first on TV.  This, at a time when the war was still a raw subject in the US being just 5 years after the fall of Saigon. Typical storylines on network television focused only on the troubled vet damaged by a war that divided the nation.

 

14 minutes ago, pahonu said:

I do remember episodes that referenced Dan Tana as being a Vietnam Vet, but you’re right, it wasn’t front and center.  Conversely, the Thomas Magnum character has a flashback to Vietnam in the opening scene of the whole series and the entire pilot’s story is centered around the death of a fellow vet, and his buddies helping him in his investigation are both portrayed in Vietnam flashbacks, as is the ultimate villain of the episode.  You couldn’t miss it. Glad I wrote that perhaps it was the first! 

Perfectly put...could not agree more! I love and have VEGA$ too, but it was a show more about good guys get bad guys and we drive away in the cool car. Magnum had that sometimes...but it was much more in-depth and serious...more realistic.  

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, pahonu said:

I do remember episodes that referenced Dan Tana as being a Vietnam Vet, but you’re right, it wasn’t front and center.  Conversely, the Thomas Magnum character has a flashback to Vietnam in the opening scene of the whole series and the entire pilot’s story is centered around the death of a fellow vet, and his buddies helping him in his investigation are both portrayed in Vietnam flashbacks, as is the ultimate villain of the episode.  You couldn’t miss it. Glad I wrote that perhaps it was the first! 

Perhaps it's no surprise that Vega$ was a Mann project, then. No, Magnum was front and center with its portrayal of Thomas, TC, and Rick as vets. Hill Street Blues did the same thing a year or so later, but not in as balanced a way.

[ViceFanMan]

Yes...VEGA$ (1978-1981) was created by Michael Mann, too. He originally envisioned Dan Tanna as a “darker” character with a brooding personality & struggling with alcohol sometimes. But, Aaron Spelling was executive producer and he disagreed with that idea...and had a completely different vision of Tanna being more clean-cut. Well, Spelling won out, but as we all know Mann then used the same character ideas for Crockett 3 years later with MV!   

[FlemFan]

Resolved: "No Episode With Izzy Can Be The Worst Episode."

Harry Shearer added a lot also IMHO and the plays on Spaghetti Westerns was fun, too.

Sorry so many feel the episode needed to have been beefed up. D'oh!

[wolfie1996]

1 hour ago, FlemFan said:

Resolved: "No Episode With Izzy Can Be The Worst Episode."

Harry Shearer added a lot also IMHO and the plays on Spaghetti Westerns was fun, too.

Sorry so many feel the episode needed to have been beefed up. D'oh!

"beefed up"!  Behave!

[ViceFanMan]

Okay, time for some bull-crap...or should I say semen (pun intended)?  This is definitely one of the stupidest, most ridiculous plots (except for “Missing Hours”, which is the worst episode of the series & in all of television) the writers came up with! 

The whole cowboy-bob mentality & the fact that the Vice team and/or OCB is “farting” around with a case so stupid as bull semen, just makes me cringe!  The writers should have been fired after “Missing Hours”, let alone this garbage. Both were serious embarrassments to the show. 

I’ve said in the past that this is the 2nd worst episode of the series (2nd only to “Missing Hours”)...however, Season 3’s “Viking Bikers From Hell” and Season 5’s “Miracle Man” could give it a run for the proverbial money on that “award”. I originally gave this one a 2...I still do. (and yes, I’m a poet & Rico knows it. )

Edited July 26, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

Sonny's expression in this says it all. 

Never thought you would hear the Magnificent Seven theme in innovative show like Miami Vice.

[Jack Gretsky]

On 9/4/2020 at 11:03 PM, Jack Gretsky said:

I remember the Reagan era well - and how he was instrumental in bringing down the evil empire of the Soviet Union.  Not ridiculous at all. 

I think I have more of a tolerance for Miami Vice going screwball than some of the others here in this thread, lol.  Nevertheless, although I found it watchable, Cows of October is still a bit too pokey. (Cow-pokey?) Not a likely entry on my Season 4 Top 5 list.  Better than Missing Hours, not as good as The Big Thaw.  

I'm also reminded of the mangled definition of artificial insemination - "It's when the farmer does it to the cow and not the bull."

I tend to have a tolerance for the off-beat, nutty MV eps, so I'm OK with this one.  Pretty funny that they use excerpts from movie Westerns themes by Tiomkin and Elmer Bernstein instead of rock and pop tracks.  And I like Gerrit Graham, who is known for his comedy performances in films like Phantom of the Paradise and Used Cars.  There's also comic actor Harry Shearer deadpan as the Fed agent.

[sdiegolo78]

What were the writers smoking? At least we see more of Izzy! He becomes a rare appearance in S4.

Edited February 3, 2022 by sdiegolo78

[pahonu]

On 1/20/2021 at 7:33 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Yes...VEGA$ (1978-1981) was created by Michael Mann, too. He originally envisioned Dan Tanna as a “darker” character with a brooding personality & struggling with alcohol sometimes. But, Aaron Spelling was executive producer and he disagreed with that idea...and had a completely different vision of Tanna being more clean-cut. Well, Spelling won out, but as we all know Mann then used the same character ideas for Crockett 3 years later with MV!   

I would like to have seen the series as Mann originally envisioned the Dan Tanna character.

Likewise, I always wondered how Magnum pi would have been if Rick’s character remained the operator of the nightclub in the pilot, with all the drug sales and underworld activity.  A missed opportunity, I think. The King Kamehameha Club storylines could still have existed with Higgins on the board of the club.