ViceFanMan Posted August 4, 2020 Report Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) I don’t view him, nor was I wanting him, to ride off on some so-called white horse, LOL! What I am saying, is he was upset & angry (and rightfully so)...and yes he just “slapped” the crap out of Glantz, so again he would have gotten in the car and gotten out of there—not as a hero in any way/shape/form or manner...but in disgust and hopefully not to ever come back. He wouldn’t stay there & go ‘fart’ around in the alley for a while. If he’d of had to park a distance away, I think it would’ve made a little more sense. But, with the Ferrari literally right there, the alley and kind of people that were around, it just came off strange & weird. Edited August 4, 2020 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted August 4, 2020 Report Share Posted August 4, 2020 We will agree to disagree. I've spent a fair amount of time mucking around in Sonny's character, and this strikes me as something he certainly would do. Especially at this point in his "life." Sonny's habit in the old days was to light a Lucky Strike and stomp off. But he doesn't smoke anymore. He's on edge, wrapped up in a case he let himself get too deep in...even though he solved it. He's the kind of guy who works things off through physical activity, not driving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted August 4, 2020 Report Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: We will agree to disagree. I've spent a fair amount of time mucking around in Sonny's character, and this strikes me as something he certainly would do. Especially at this point in his "life." Sonny's habit in the old days was to light a Lucky Strike and stomp off. But he doesn't smoke anymore. He's on edge, wrapped up in a case he let himself get too deep in...even though he solved it. He's the kind of guy who works things off through physical activity, not driving. I think most die-hard fans have spent their fair share of time digressing Sonny’s character (as well as the rest of the cast), and the differences from the beginning to the end. I agree...Crockett’s old way was somewhat more hot-headed & stomping off might have been something he would have done in a 1st season episode (however, I don’t believe he’d of left the Spyder sitting in an alley full of druggies then, either). But, that’s my point, this wasn’t a first season episode! This was nearing the end of the show, and Sonny was more mature and not so fly-off-the-handle. Again, he was angry and upset, and he had every right to be...but he would not have just left the car sitting there and started walking around some back alley full of druggies. He’d of gotten out of there, full of disgust, and as fast as he could. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 I know this has nothing to do with this particular episode, but here I go: when it applies to the writing of Vice, I can understand why it's mentioned that there isn't enough of it or isn't well done, but I like how the show used a lot of body language, facial expressions, and music cues to help the story along (though I like the dialogue that's there, such as Tubbs in 'One-Eyed Jack': "I'll be wearing an Armani blazer, you'll be wearing a wire" or Crockett's Li'l Abner line in 'Stone's War'; so many more lines I dig, but I'm a little bus-lagged right now (and over caffeinated, plus I'm doing too many internet things at once, and I'm clearly chock full of excuses). I feel that Vice is deeper than I was aware of when it aired originally, and considering it's main competition was the plentiful amount of prime time soap operas (nothing wrong with them I believe, that was just the era:-), I thought it did its own thing very well. As Vice's continuity goes, since the character of Crockett (I think the viewer can completely understand why he became jaded: between the law he tried to uphold being perverted, suicides which he witnessed, characters shooting other characters that he could do nothing about...what'd he say in 'Line of Fire' that police work has become sensationalized, as people are just interested in political favors, kiss & tell, and dirty laundry?) and how he evolved through the seasons is discussed here, I felt all the significant characters changed (Castillo became a bit warmer, Switek got dark, Trudy developed a take-charge attitude; only Gina, at least to me, remained mostly the same. But I'm fine with that:-). Also, the series rewarded the viewer with bringing back familiar character like Caroline, Billy, Lombard, and Valerie (they even brought Legba back from the dead...wait, he wasn't dead; Sorry, Legba zombie humor. Now I'M the goat)). Maybe I'm too much of a fan to see the show's imperfections, but I find myself referencing certain episodes on a daily basis without much prodding or effort. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gretsky Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 Yeah, I think they made the scene where Sonny tells Tubbs about the shameful incident from his past (the photo in the locker room) too much of an Evan.2 moment. I almost expected Rico to say, "So just what else do you have hidden in your past, Sonny?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 vor 4 Stunden schrieb Jack Gretsky: Yeah, I think they made the scene where Sonny tells Tubbs about the shameful incident from his past (the photo in the locker room) too much of an Evan.2 moment. I almost expected Rico to say, "So just what else do you have hidden in your past, Sonny?" I don´t see it that way (that cricital). Crockett has always felt too much (also mentioned by Borbon´s daugther in Freefall on the boat) and he could not turn off several times throughout the series when he felt compassion with some characters (Archie in Good collar, his change in attitude towards the boys in Milk Run, Keith in 5th season). Death and the lady was one of these occurrences and it was for sure one of the most disgusting crimes possible and that´s why Crockett spilled his beans in that episode at the right point in time for me. Just my 2 cents. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 7:22 PM, ViceFanMan said: I think most die-hard fans have spent their fair share of time digressing Sonny’s character (as well as the rest of the cast), and the differences from the beginning to the end. I agree...Crockett’s old way was somewhat more hot-headed & stomping off might have been something he would have done in a 1st season episode (however, I don’t believe he’d of left the Spyder sitting in an alley full of druggies then, either). But, that’s my point, this wasn’t a first season episode! This was nearing the end of the show, and Sonny was more mature and not so fly-off-the-handle. Again, he was angry and upset, and he had every right to be...but he would not have just left the car sitting there and started walking around some back alley full of druggies. He’d of gotten out of there, full of disgust, and as fast as he could. I don't know... I think at this point Sonny recognized that in his current mental state, he would not have been fully in control of his driving. Yes, he was often an aggressive driver who wasn't afraid to take a risk. But normally, he could wall off his emotions to get the job done. In this case, he needed to physically work off some of the emotional reaction he was feeling. And although he was often shown to treat the Testarossa as his own precious possession, it wasn't really his personal vehicle that he had paid for. Therefore (IMO) in his anger and disgust I can certainly see him leaving it sitting in the alley. It wasn't like he planned to be there all day, and if it was trashed, he could get another undercover vehicle from the department. That's just my reaction. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, vicegirl85 said: I don't know... I think at this point Sonny recognized that in his current mental state, he would not have been fully in control of his driving. Yes, he was often an aggressive driver who wasn't afraid to take a risk. But normally, he could wall off his emotions to get the job done. In this case, he needed to physically work off some of the emotional reaction he was feeling. And although he was often shown to treat the Testarossa as his own precious possession, it wasn't really his personal vehicle that he had paid for. Therefore (IMO) in his anger and disgust I can certainly see him leaving it sitting in the alley. It wasn't like he planned to be there all day, and if it was trashed, he could get another undercover vehicle from the department. Yeah, and for me this scene shows at least as much the inner reality of Crockett. That there is something he wants to leave behind: Glanz and his awful crime and maybe even the glamour of the Ferrari and the misery of poverty. And in your inner reality you usually don´t consider crime statistics and so on when you decide what to do. P.S.: "Glanz" is a German word which means as much as that something looks beautiful from the outside, sparkles, reflects light. But that something sparkles says nothing about its inner value, nothing about whether something is precious and good or not. Edited September 2, 2020 by Glades 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gretsky Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Tom said: I don´t see it that way (that cricital). Crockett has always felt too much (also mentioned by Borbon´s daugther in Freefall on the boat) and he could not turn off several times throughout the series when he felt compassion with some characters (Archie in Good collar, his change in attitude towards the boys in Milk Run, Keith in 5th season). Death and the lady was one of these occurrences and it was for sure one of the most disgusting crimes possible and that´s why Crockett spilled his beans in that episode at the right point in time for me. Just my 2 cents. I was being a bit facetious; I'm OK with this delve into Sonny's character - I just think it was staged too much like the Evan scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 vor 11 Minuten schrieb Jack Gretsky: I was being a bit facetious; I'm OK with this delve into Sonny's character - I just think it was staged too much like the Evan scene. but Rico came to Sonny to see him on his boat, not Sonny to Rico like in Evan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 That could also be considered consistency in Sonny's character. The things that bother him most in life have to do with his inaction-the heroin mules in Nam, Mike Orgel, and now the photo on the wall. That also ties into his motivation to be a cop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said: I was being a bit facetious; I'm OK with this delve into Sonny's character - I just think it was staged too much like the Evan scene. Staged in a way where you mean forced? Edited September 2, 2020 by RedDragon86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gretsky Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: Staged in a way where you mean forced? I didn't intend to start a debate about this, lol. It's not a big deal - I just thought the quiet nighttime confession to Tubbs was similar to the gas station scene from Evan. I was jokingly wondering if Tubbs was thinking, "Here we go again!" No disrespect intended for the drama of the scene and Sonny's anguish. Edited September 2, 2020 by Jack Gretsky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Jack Gretsky said: I didn't intend to start a debate about this, lol. It's not a big deal - I just thought it was the quiet nighttime confession to Tubbs was similar to the gas station scene from Evan. I was jokingly wondering if Tubbs was thinking, "Here we go again!" No disrespect intended for the drama of the scene and Sonny's anguish. I see what you mean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 I thought Crockett's story about the locker room photo was a nice addition to this episode, and it again clarifies how Crockett's overall feelings (what Bren10 said about inaction; both past actions & inactions are things Crockett doesn't forget) weigh heavily on him. I never thought about it, but I guess that moment is a little like the 'Evan' episode at the gas station. This case became something of a crusade for Crockett, one of which had an end result that disgusted him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, vicegirl85 said: I don't know... I think at this point Sonny recognized that in his current mental state, he would not have been fully in control of his driving. Yes, he was often an aggressive driver who wasn't afraid to take a risk. But normally, he could wall off his emotions to get the job done. In this case, he needed to physically work off some of the emotional reaction he was feeling. And although he was often shown to treat the Testarossa as his own precious possession, it wasn't really his personal vehicle that he had paid for. Therefore (IMO) in his anger and disgust I can certainly see him leaving it sitting in the alley. It wasn't like he planned to be there all day, and if it was trashed, he could get another undercover vehicle from the department. That's just my reaction. True...he was angry and definitely full of emotion! But he wasn’t so out of control that he would just go walk around the alley for a while. He was more full of anger and disgust towards Glantz and the fact that he wouldn’t really be held responsible for the situation. I still say he’d of gotten in that car & gotten out of there, most likely hoping to never return. He wouldn’t stick around. As for the Ferrari, true he didn’t own it...but he was responsible for it! If it'd been stolen or trashed, he’d of been held responsible. Plus, it took some finagling to get the Testarossa after the Spyder was destroyed. They stuck him with that goofy truck first, lol! There’s no way they’d just hand him another expensive sports car if he’d of let the Ferrari get destroyed some way again...especially with the irresponsibility of just leaving it sitting in an alley full of druggies and psychos. (Side-note: “confused”=lol!!! ) Edited September 3, 2020 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 What confused me with this end is that Glanz actually lives in/nearby this alley. Is this realistic? I mean he is supposed to be famous and rich? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Glades said: What confused me with this end is that Glanz actually lives in/nearby this alley. Is this realistic? I mean he is supposed to be famous and rich? Believe it or not, sometimes rich people will own & live in fancy loft apartments or “houses” downtown somewhere that were originally some kind of warehouse or old hotel...but they’ve remodeled them. A lot of times they’re located in slum or very poor areas of whatever city. Edited September 3, 2020 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona365 Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) On 8/5/2020 at 12:37 AM, ViceFanMan said: I don’t view him, nor was I wanting him, to ride off on some so-called white horse, LOL! What I am saying, is he was upset & angry (and rightfully so)...and yes he just “slapped” the crap out of Glantz, so again he would have gotten in the car and gotten out of there—not as a hero in any way/shape/form or manner...but in disgust and hopefully not to ever come back. He wouldn’t stay there & go ‘fart’ around in the alley for a while. If he’d of had to park a distance away, I think it would’ve made a little more sense. But, with the Ferrari literally right there, the alley and kind of people that were around, it just came off strange & weird. they coulda played this song as he disappeared into the alley so we wouldn't have this discussion... Edited September 3, 2020 by daytona365 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 22 hours ago, Glades said: (snipped) P.S.: "Glanz" is a German word which means as much as that something looks beautiful from the outside, sparkles, reflects light. But that something sparkles says nothing about its inner value, nothing about whether something is precious and good or not. That's interesting, Glades! I wonder if the writer used that name on purpose, knowing the meaning, or if it was just a name he picked out of the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said: That's interesting, Glades! I wonder if the writer used that name on purpose, knowing the meaning, or if it was just a name he picked out of the air. It would be really interesting to know if they choose the name with purpose. Glanz/Glantz is a very very rare German surname, so it is at least an unusaul choice. And the meaning of the name/word fits so well to the character! There is a saying: "Es ist nicht alles Gold, was glänzt." (Not all what sparkles (glänzt) is of gold.) Meaning: Not everything everything what seems to be of value from the outside is indeed of value. And further more dead eyes getting soon turbid (is this the right word?) and loose their "Glanz". So that´s another connection that come to me. Maybe it´s all coincidence maybe not! Edited September 3, 2020 by Glades 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: Believe it or not, sometimes rich people will own & live in fancy loft apartments or “houses” downtown somewhere that were originally some kind of warehouse or old hotel...but they’ve remodeled them. A lot of times they’re located in slum or very poor areas of whatever city. Plus I think he intentionally wanted to work and live in a run down sleazy area, easy access for him to prey on homeless and vulnerable people. Edited September 3, 2020 by RedDragon86 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: Plus I think he intentionally wanted to work and live in run down sleazy area, easy access for him to prey on homeless and vulnerable people. True! Plus, I doubt too many millionaire or rich people that were well-known would’ve wanted him living in their area...even if they were “customers”, LOL! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 vor 11 Stunden schrieb Glades: What confused me with this end is that Glanz actually lives in/nearby this alley. Is this realistic? I mean he is supposed to be famous and rich? Realistic. In the mid 80s most alleys of Miami (Beach) were like that. And his „house“ was more like his Atelier and he always was attracted by „the dark side“ he wanted to emphasize, thus the location choice was good. I cannot imagine Glantz living in a modern villa with glass windows. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Tom said: Atelier I like this. I think that’s what I’ll call my little music building from now on. Pronounced “addle-yay”, right? Edited September 3, 2020 by Dadrian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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