RedDragon86 Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) On 7/27/2019 at 7:28 PM, Tom said: Yes. There is. Season 4 filming started very late on 23 July 87 (Amen...send money) with Death and the lady being the second episode to film beginning of August. They simply forgot to film an interior car shot with DJ for that episode as the car drive was not in the script. When.they decided to lay in the Truth song at the end, they decided to include the driving scenes as well to get to a 1:30 length for the song and the editor used some old second unit montage scenes of the white Ferrari for it. So far so good. But as DJ had his hair grown in between seasons they had no close up of DJ inside the car from season 4 they could use (in Amen send money there is no interior car scene). So the editor tried to use a close op of DJ from Shadow in the dark (that was the first episode with the white Ferrari and they made lots of driving scenes for it) in season 3 Where DJ was shown from the side with his hair rarely seen so they thought this was the least Dangerous Segment to use. In later season 4 episodes they filmed several interior car scenes with DJ and PMT but all with dialogue. PS. Exterior drive scenes are easy and normally done by second unit without actors based on script or for one season ahead. Interior car scenes with actors that are not demanded by the script are tricky as no one will film that just in case it is needed later. Cheers. Edited July 15, 2021 by RedDragon86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Its similar to "Little Miss Dangerous" but not as good imo. My score - 6/10. Edited March 3, 2020 by RedDragon86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IzzyFan99 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 A top 3 episode for me. I watched it last night and I actually have the urge to watch it again. Very unsettling but so well made with Don Johnson giving what I believe to be his best performance. 10/10 Also, Penelope Ann Miller is VERY easy on the eyes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 7 hours ago, IzzyFan99 said: A top 3 episode for me. I watched it last night and I actually have the urge to watch it again. Very unsettling but so well made with Don Johnson giving what I believe to be his best performance. 10/10 Also, Penelope Ann Miller is VERY easy on the eyes. Likewise, for me. This episode is as powerful and memorable as Evan or anything else! Excellent script, great cast, unforgettable visuals, dark/gritty/sexual undertones, Crockett dealing with past issues, great music...100% Miami Vice. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) I wonder, how did they got so much right in one episode and then so much wrong in a season? With exceptions of course. Edited March 3, 2020 by summer84 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, summer84 said: I wonder, how did they got so much right in one episode and then so much wrong in a season? With exceptions of course. We already know the answer. The same thing that plagued Vice for almost its entire run: Minimal continuity and poor show runners (Mann may have been good at the style piece of Vice, but he had serious flaws when it came to the substance, and that carried over to future seasons). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Vigilante Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 8 hours ago, IzzyFan99 said: A top 3 episode for me. I watched it last night and I actually have the urge to watch it again. Very unsettling but so well made with Don Johnson giving what I believe to be his best performance. 10/10 Also, Penelope Ann Miller is VERY easy on the eyes. Definitely one of the best of season 4. "Child's Play", "Honor Among Thieves" and "Mirror Image" are some of my top entries of the season. Also, Penelope Ann Miller seemed to be in a ton of stuff for about a ten year period of the 80s/90s, but I can't remember anything from the last twenty years with her in it. "The Relic" is the last film I can think of. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robbie C. said: We already know the answer. The same thing that plagued Vice for almost its entire run: Minimal continuity and poor show runners (Mann may have been good at the style piece of Vice, but he had serious flaws when it came to the substance, and that carried over to future seasons). It was more a rhetorical question, in wishing that they had just gotten it right overall, but yeah. Other seasons were more consistent in quality, but of course often the style owershadowed the substance. The show lost it's direction, I feel they simply didn't know what more to do with it other than the new season should be "fun and crazy" as Mann put it. And they sure achieved that goal. But as I recall, the production was also effected by the longs hours/nights on set and with writing/editing taking place in a different state it all took it's toll and wasn't organized well. Edited March 3, 2020 by summer84 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 On 5/19/2013 at 12:35 AM, ViceFanMan said: Love this episode! It's wild, bizarre, tragic, eye-opening, captivating, and mesmerizing! Ahh...the old urban legend of a "snuff" film turning out to be a real snuff flick! Several shows have done an episode regarding this idea--Silk Stalkings and CSI to name a couple. But, it always makes for an interesting episode and "MV" does not disappoint! This episode really delved into the seedy, destructive, realistic, and I'll even venture to say evil aspects of porn, and the disgusting lengths some will go to to make a buck. The acting, especially by Don Johnson, was superb! I love the scene where Crockett really looks at the video of the porn movie, and realizes by the girl's eyes that...she's dead! I thought guest-star Penelope Ann Miller also did an outstanding, heart-wrenching job! I loved the wild plot twists, and trying to figure out which girl was the dead one (Laurie Swan, Amy Rider, or Margo), and whether they all were alive...or dead! The bizarre and whacked out announcer at the beginning, with the gold hands sewn on his suit coat, was an eye-popping, majorly perverted, but interesting touch to really draw you in from the start! Guest-star Paul Guilfoyle is a superb actor...and I've seen him in several other things, but he'll always be Capt. Jim Brass on CSI to me. But, he is outstanding in this episode as porn producer/artist Milton Glantz! He's perfectly bizarre, sleezy, majorly creepy...even possibly mentally disturbed! But, anyone who agrees to actually have a girl killed (dying of cancer or not) in a sick porn movie is not exactly running on all cylinders. :pThe other guest-stars in this were also awesome...from Miguel Ferrer, Kelly Lynch, Penelope Ann Miller (as I stated earlier above), Michael David Morrison, etc... The colors of the sets, inside rooms, buildings, lighting, neon lights, etc...were all superb!! I love the colors of Glanz's (Guilfoyle) photography studio...where he took that bum from the outside alley and wrapped him up in plastic, splattering him with red paint to simulate blood. Besides that "twisted" scene, the teal walls/ceiling and pink chair & love seat totally made that room! I really liked most of the colors and lighting used for this episode--very captivating, wild, and eye-catching.Also, I laughed my butt off at the bag lady in the alley...as Crockett was showing up at Glantz's and his camera people were taking the bum inside. What the heck was up with her walk? She just kind of had this bizarre, spastic-like waddle from side-to-side as she drug this garbage bag behind her. The music in this one was outstanding! As always Jan Hammer's themes and songs were awesome and truly "MV"! But the Depeche Mode songs in this were absolutely superb--Never Let Me Down Again and Pleasure, Little Treasure! But, I love Depeche Mode period...so of course I'm going to enjoy those. But, other awesome songs included the "haunting" The Edge of Town by The Truth, Vet For the Insane by Fields of the Nephilim, and The Story Never Ends by Naked Prey. However, one aspect that didn't set quite right for me was the pastels missing from the fashion or wardrobe. Everyone seems to be dressed in darker tones...and that's just not "MV". But, I think this was around the time that Dick Wolf was changing things--including the colors of the clothes. But, I do like Crockett's hairstyle better than season 3, and I also like the black Wayfarers he wearing...instead of those other strange black sunglasses from season 3. These shades aren't tortoise shell like seasons 1&2...but at least they're Wayfarers. I also thought the end was a little over-the-top and strange. I mean, of course we all understand why Crockett would want to just show up and beat the "crap" out of Glantz...but really?? Glantz was not some scuzzy, low-life drug dealer that would never press charges because he didn't want to have police attention. He was unfortunately high-society and had tons of high-up connections--from politicians, lawyers, judges, probably the mayor, etc... Crockett would have been arrested, fired from the OCB, and probably sent to prison for assault & battery and intent to do bodily harm. The last scene of him handing the bum (same homeless drunk Glantz used earlier for his plastic wrap project) Glantz's leg porn award was kind of "appropriate" and even humorous. Also...was it ever explained why Gina and Trudy were at the erotic film festival at the beginning? I understood the introduction of Milton Glantz and his snuff film Death and the Lady...but then all of a sudden Gina and Trudy are there. Were they into violent, erotic porn (after all later Gina says she's seen Glantz's film and he as a nice touch) ...or were maybe they there to look for drugs or illegal-age porn stuff? Just never quite figured that one out...But, overall this episode was superb and one of my favorites of season 4 & the series! I gave it a 9 (only reason I held off with a 10 is because of the no-pastel clothes and the strange ending with Glantz's beating). This was my original review...I still stand behind it, except for my original rating. Despite the no-pastels & weird ending, if I could change my rating it’d definitely get a 10! Superb episode and one of my favorites of the show!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 I really liked this episode; wow, Crockett really unraveled at the end there. A late Vice episode I consider similar in tone is 'Asian Cut'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campion Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 I really liked Death and the Lady, too; it was indicative of the quality Vice could have achieved in season 4 until things went off the rails. One little blooper that I noticed a while back... Crockett and Tubbs visit Glantz at his party (Pleasure, Little Treasure is playing). Glantz greets them, "Ahh, Mr. Crockett, Mr. Tubbs." However, this is the first time in the episode that Tubbs has met Glantz. He shouldn't know who he is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 Hmmm, that's true, Glanz didn't meet Tubbs up to that point. I'd like to say Glanz checked up on who Crockett's partner was, since he seemed to be that kind of way (if that was the case, it's funny to me, since Tubbs was the guy always getting info on people, such as Lt. Rodriguez early on and Danielle Hier later. But yeah, it was probably a goof:-). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said: Hmmm, that's true, Glanz didn't meet Tubbs up to that point. I'd like to say Glanz checked up on who Crockett's partner was, since he seemed to be that kind of way (if that was the case, it's funny to me, since Tubbs was the guy always getting info on people, such as Lt. Rodriguez early on and Danielle Hier later. But yeah, it was probably a goof:-). Good point, and that’s true...Glantz would have only had to make a phone call or two to find out everything about Crockett (including who his partner & associates were), as Glantz had high up connections all over. So, maybe it was a “goof”...or perhaps that was on purpose, for Glantz to let Sonny basically know: ‘I’m superior, above you, know everything about you, and can find out anything about you—so don’t mess with me’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 12:52 AM, Robbie C. said: We already know the answer. The same thing that plagued Vice for almost its entire run: Minimal continuity and poor show runners (Mann may have been good at the style piece of Vice, but he had serious flaws when it came to the substance, and that carried over to future seasons). They entire production team leaving after season 2 didn't help things. Continuity isn't going be there if the show was heading in a different direction under Dick Wolf, because he clearly didn't care about what went on before hand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) Yeah, Vice was funny like that, sometimes not supplying all the details, and it can make one wonder if they forgot, the viewer could fill in the blanks, or suspend disbelief entirely. But for as twisted as the Glanz character was (man, that scene with him using the knife on the cake at the party, and his look!), he knew how things worked. The guy though, wow, he burned that painting like he was Willem Dafoe's character Ben Masters from "To Lie and Die in L.A." or something. Edited March 14, 2020 by Eillio Martin Imbasciati missed a letter in the word "detail" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 Yeah, Dick Wolf had a whole different approach to Vice, which I actually like, but to a point: eliminating some of the fun factor and changing the wardrobe was, I think, taking it too far. The "Ripped From the Headline" stories though? Well, Vice was already doing that in its first two seasons to some extent ('Back in the World', 'One Eyed Jack', 'Smuggler's blues'), but it wasn't so darn clinical about it. Like what Ricardo Diaz said to Vic Vance in the video game "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories", "Crack a fu**ing smile". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said: They entire production team leaving after season 2 didn't help things. Continuity isn't going be there if the show was heading in a different direction under Dick Wolf, because he clearly didn't care about what went on before hand. They weren't solid when Mann was there, either. That kind of thing just wasn't a priority ever, honestly. Mann wanted to accent the visual side. He wasn't interested in pushing the envelope aside from that. Plus he didn't have experience running a show that lasted longer than a couple of seasons. He was very strong with the visuals and the audio part of Vice. There's no question there. But the writing and character stuff...it was never his strong suit. And that carried over to future seasons and just became more obvious once the "new" wore off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Robbie C. said: They weren't solid when Mann was there, either. That kind of thing just wasn't a priority ever, honestly. Mann wanted to accent the visual side. He wasn't interested in pushing the envelope aside from that. Plus he didn't have experience running a show that lasted longer than a couple of seasons. He was very strong with the visuals and the audio part of Vice. There's no question there. But the writing and character stuff...it was never his strong suit. And that carried over to future seasons and just became more obvious once the "new" wore off. To be fair he was never responsible for the writing. He might be responsible for the visuals and audio side but what goes unnoticed was his vision for the show, and he supervised episodes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 31 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: To be fair he was never responsible for the writing. He might be responsible for the visuals and audio side but what goes unnoticed was his vision for the show, and he supervised episodes. Sure, but the original character concepts were Yerkovich's as far as I know. Once he left, that side of it started to drift badly and never recovered. Mann could, I think, have exerted some pull in terms of script revisions and approval, but I don't think he was as interested in that side as he was the other stuff. And it shows throughout the series, not just after he left. But "Death and the Lady" is still one of the better episodes, and not just of this season. I think it was one of the first I ever saw (I watched Vice when it started running on USA). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 When I really became locked onto Vice again in 2009, 'Child's play' was the first episode I watched and recorded; pretty hardcore theme there. My second? He he, 'Missing Time' ("creamy, or crunchy?"). 'Death and the Lady' came later, when the Centric channel looped the series back to the point of Season 4, so I caught that in early 2010. I definitely think it's one of the best episodes of the season (another favorite of mine is 'Badge of Dishonor', since it's based on the real-life Miami Police Department corruption case, but 'Death and the Lady' is one favorite in which the storyline can't be proven to be factual, but could happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 23 hours ago, Robbie C. said: Sure, but the original character concepts were Yerkovich's as far as I know. Once he left, that side of it started to drift badly and never recovered. Mann could, I think, have exerted some pull in terms of script revisions and approval, but I don't think he was as interested in that side as he was the other stuff. And it shows throughout the series, not just after he left. But "Death and the Lady" is still one of the better episodes, and not just of this season. I think it was one of the first I ever saw (I watched Vice when it started running on USA). In what way did you think the the original character concepts drifted badly after Yerkovich left? can you give an example of this please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 I would say the biggest is Sonny as a focused character, followed by the idea of a true ensemble cast with solid plot lines. Yerkovich came from Hill Street Blues and St Elsewhere, both solid ensemble shows, while Mann's TV background was not so strongly oriented that way (Starsky & Hutch and Vega$). In the first season you saw attempts to keep Sonny focused, and to have episodes featuring the other members of the team in solid, plot-centric roles. That started to fade a bit by season two, and was more or less gone by the end of season three. Season one also featured two two-part episode arcs focused on events from characters' pasts (obviously Calderone Returns and Golden Triangle). The impact is, to me anyhow, fairly obvious. Sonny starts to drift seriously, they actually lost a main character in Larry Zito, and the others faded into the background. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRemington Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Great episode here! This is one I’ve rewatched countless times. I love the plot, the guest actors/actresses, the music, etc. Two amazing Depeche Mode songs! The other songs used are also very good! I really like the scene of Crockett driving at night, but wish they would have added new shots of him inside the car for proper continuity. Kelly Lynch and Penelope Ann Miller are both very beautiful and great in their roles. How can you tell someone’s eyes are dead? If you saw my eyes you’d probably think I was dead. I really have to applaud Paul Guilfoyle’s performance in this episode. He was just so creepy and intriguing. He seemed kind of flirty with Crockett in a non-sexual way, but I think he just loved to tease him because he knew he couldn’t be caught. Some people said they don’t Iike this episode because it’s creepy. Well, I love creepy stuff! Creepiness in TV, film, music, and art are all very appealing and enjoyable to me! I am a big horror and thriller fan! This would definitely make my Vice Top Ten list! Edited July 22, 2020 by AndrewRemington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, AndrewRemington said: Great episode here! This is one I’ve rewatched countless times. I love the plot, the guest actors/actresses, the music, etc. Two amazing Depeche Mode songs! The other songs used are also very good! I really like the scene of Crockett driving at night, but wish they would have added new shots of him inside the car for proper continuity. Kelly Lynch and Penelope Ann Miller are both very beautiful and great in their roles. How can you tell someone’s eyes are dead? If you saw my eyes you’d probably think I was dead. I really have to applaud Paul Guilfoyle’s performance in this episode. He was just so creepy and intriguing. He seemed kind of flirty with Crockett in a non-sexual way, but I think he just loved to tease him because he knew he couldn’t be caught. Some people said they don’t Iike this episode because it’s creepy. Well, I love creepy stuff! Creepiness in TV, film, music, and art are all very appealing and enjoyable to me! I am a big horror and thriller fan! This would definitely make my Vice Top Ten list! I think the idea of a real life snuffed film is sort of what some think is creepy in this one, LOL! Supposedly according to FBI and other law-enforcement agencies (at least in the past, maybe that’s actually changed now?) , there never actually has been a real life snuff film. However, I find that hard to believe with as many sickos as we have in the world today. Amazing episode & superb performances by all!! However, the ending was a little bizarre. You actually can tell if a person has “dead eyes”...as they look & appear different than if a person is still alive. But, I think you’d have to be fairly close to the face to really be able to tell. However, Crockett was looking at a close-up freeze-frame of ‘Snuff-Girl’s’ face...and he’d seen enough death in ‘Nam & Miami to know. Edited July 22, 2020 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRemington Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: I think the idea of a real life snuffed film is sort of what some think is creepy in this one, LOL! Supposedly according to FBI and other law-enforcement agencies (at least in the past, maybe that’s actually changed now?) , there never actually has been a real life snuff film. However, I find that hard to believe with as many sickos as we have in the world today. Amazing episode & superb performances by all!! However, the ending was a little bizarre. You actually can tell if a person has “dead eyes”...as they look & appear different than if a person is still alive. But, I think you’d have to be fairly close to the face to really be able to tell. However, Crockett was looking at a close-up freeze-frame of ‘Snuff-Girl’s’ face...and he’d seen enough death in ‘Nam & Miami to know. Yes, a real life snuff film is pretty creepy! Sadly, I would think it has been done sometime, probably in a low-budget film. To me, since this just a fictional story it doesn’t faze me too much. I’ve seen way too much messed up stuff, haha. The ending is strange but I still really like it. I suppose Sonny just went for a little walk to cool off and then went back to the Testarossa. I wouldn’t want to leave my car like that in some sketchy alley, though! I guess I haven’t seen anyone dead, other than at wakes/funerals when their eyes are closed. That is pretty interesting! I always appreciate your reviews and comments, ViceFanMan! I almost always agree with what you say! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.