Tom Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 vor 1 Minute schrieb Dadrian: I like this. I think that’s what I’ll call my little music building from now on. Atelier. That is (in Glantz´ case) his three tier model of buzzword bingo: he calls sh*** art, the place where he creates it "atelier" and a snuff movie "erotic performance art" Your music building should be called "Artelier" (remember Izzy said architecture is like frozen music...) because it has to do with real art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, Tom said: Your music building should be called "Artelier" (remember Izzy said architecture is like frozen music...) because it has to do with real art. Only I’m demoralizing Miami Vice music 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Glades said: It would be really interesting to know if they choose the name with purpose. Glanz/Glantz is a very very rare German surname, so it is at least an unusaul choice. And the meaning of the name/word fits so well to the character! There is a saying: "Es ist nicht alles Gold, was glänzt." (Not all what sparkles (glänzt) is of gold.) Meaning: Not everything everything what seems to be of value from the outside is indeed of value. And further more dead eyes getting soon turbid (is this the right word?) and loose their "Glanz". So that´s another connection that come to me. Maybe it´s all coincidence maybe not! I would not be surprised if it wasn't on some level intentional. I'd be curious to check some of the draft scripts and see if his name changed in any way during the writing process. The one I have shows it as we saw it on screen, and if that remained constant I'd be almost sure it was done either because of the German or perhaps as a bit of a pun on the word "glance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Dadrian said: Only I’m demoralizing Miami Vice music Don't make me go all Izzy on you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: Don't make me go all Izzy on you... As long as you don’t jump to any beeg inconclusions. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 Joo have no idea who jure messing with, meng. I'll take you dangling participles an' stop on them like grapes. An' I'll do it in these choos. Made from the finest hide of the bulls from Pamploma. An' for twenty dollars more, they're hand made from the dangling participles of those same bulls. Women love those bulls, meng. 'Emingway said so. So joo can take jore inconclusions an' concludeicate them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: Joo have no idea who jure messing with, meng. I'll take you dangling participles an' stop on them like grapes. An' I'll do it in these choos. Made from the finest hide of the bulls from Pamploma. An' for twenty dollars more, they're hand made from the dangling participles of those same bulls. Women love those bulls, meng. 'Emingway said so. So joo can take jore inconclusions an' concludeicate them. Brilliant!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Robbie C. said: I would not be surprised if it wasn't on some level intentional. I'd be curious to check some of the draft scripts and see if his name changed in any way during the writing process. The one I have shows it as we saw it on screen, and if that remained constant I'd be almost sure it was done either because of the German or perhaps as a bit of a pun on the word "glance." Robbie, so you have a script of this episode and his name there was also "Glanz"? That´s interesting! And the similarity between the pronunciation of "glance" and "Glanz" was also the first thing I noticed! This led me to my other considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdiegolo78 Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 (edited) This episode deserves a solid 8. I definitely didn't like it at all the first time i ever watched it as teenager due to the lack of shootings, fist fights, car chases and explosions. I re-watched it again three more times and it grew on me. The re-used Testarossa night drive footage (from 'Shadow in the dark') we see towards the end, to me it stuck out like a sore thumb. But that's the only negative note for me. Plenty of positives here. That dark tone reminiscent of the best season 3 episodes, impeccable style and photography. Plus a very creepy sleazeball played by the great Paul Guilfoyle. Not the usual threatening Latino drug thug. The despicable porn movie director with connections in "high places" was a nice change. I really enjoyed the lighter moments with the kitty at the OCB office, Castillo asking 'What's that doing here?' and Sonny's funny reply ('Evidence'! ). Someone rightly noted this was one of the rare moments we saw our lieutenant smile (even if it was a very shy smile). The highlight of the episode for me was at the end when Milton Glantz got slapped for six times by Sonny . Each time the sleazeball moving a few yards down after getting hit . If one is watching this the first time may think Sonny is just gone crazy but that scene is so powerful. It conveys the detective's frustration for Glantz getting off on the charges and how he feels in general about the whole case (his memories from his youth when his football mates hung that gross picture depicting a girl and felt he should have ripped it off the locker). You may argue in real life Crockett could be charged for assault on a suspect and lose his badge. But the scene in which Glantz gets his lumps i believe is to give some reward to all the viewers who hoped he would be incarcerated for murder. He unfortunately gets away with it but definitely deserved the beating for using that poor girl for his 'art'. I also believe this powerful scene is indicative of Sonny's growing frustration and disillusionment about his job. And that can only get worse as the series progresses to the later stage. My own observation on Crockett handling M.Glantz's ass. You may think it's irrelevant but hear this. I think Sonny deliberately chose to slap him instead of punching him. Fists (if landed properly) can make more damage and leave visible signs such as bruises, cuts and black eyes. And that evidence could be at Sonny disadvantage should the suspect decide to press charges for assault. But I digress.... Last but not least the icing on the cake of this S4 chapter at the very end, as Crockett takes Glantz award/trophy and gives it away to the wino outside in the street...it adds that dose of sarcastic humor and it is PRICELESS to watch! Edited February 27, 2021 by sdiegolo78 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdiegolo78 Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 8/4/2020 at 11:37 PM, ViceFanMan said: I don’t view him, nor was I wanting him, to ride off on some so-called white horse, LOL! What I am saying, is he was upset & angry (and rightfully so)...and yes he just “slapped” the crap out of Glantz, so again he would have gotten in the car and gotten out of there—not as a hero in any way/shape/form or manner...but in disgust and hopefully not to ever come back. He wouldn’t stay there & go ‘fart’ around in the alley for a while. If he’d of had to park a distance away, I think it would’ve made a little more sense. But, with the Ferrari literally right there, the alley and kind of people that were around, it just came off strange & weird. The Ferrari is property of the Metro Dade PD and not his personal property, so I reckon he'd be covered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdiegolo78 Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 8/22/2020 at 5:53 PM, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said: I felt all the significant characters changed (Castillo became a bit warmer, Switek got dark, Trudy developed a take-charge attitude; only Gina, at least to me, remained mostly the same Do you think Tubbs changed too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdiegolo78 Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 9/2/2020 at 1:40 PM, Glades said: P.S.: "Glanz" is a German word which means as much as that something looks beautiful from the outside, sparkles, reflects light. But that something sparkles says nothing about its inner value, nothing about whether something is precious and good or not. how appropriate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdiegolo78 Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 10/1/2018 at 10:55 AM, Bren10 said: When Sonny is done with him, he isn't crying or wimpering. He isn't screaming or threatening revenge He just says 'stop' after the 6th/7th slap in the face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, sdiegolo78 said: The Ferrari is property of the Metro Dade PD and not his personal property, so I reckon he'd be covered It was property of Metro Dade PD...so that’s why he’d be in way worse trouble with the city & his job, let alone with what he did to Glantz. Edited February 28, 2021 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Its a watered down version of LMD, overrated like "Gods Work" because season 4 is hopeless. Edited February 28, 2021 by RedDragon86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said: Its a crappy version of LMD, overrated like "Gods Work" because season 4 hopeless. God's Work was incredibly risk-taking for its time. You want overrated? Try that hot mess of junk they call The Great McCarthy. And as far as the slapping goes...this was discussed earlier in this thread. Sonny did to Glanz what they used to call pimp slapping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: Its a crappy version of LMD, overrated like "Gods Work" because season 4 hopeless. A good portion of Season 4 was hopeless...but Death and the Lady was an exception. It was probably the best of the season...plot, acting/performances, captivation, etc...! I don’t view it as a knock-off or copy of LMD. Both episodes were their own thing and absolute gems...D&TL being a diamond in the proverbial rock pile for that season. However, I really like God’s Work, too. Edited February 28, 2021 by ViceFanMan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 vor 9 Stunden schrieb RedDragon86: Its a crappy version of LMD, overrated like "Gods Work" because season 4 hopeless. I will not refer to the second half as useless to deal with general statements without any argument why. the comparison with LMD is very far fetched as there is none. LMD is a pretty flat episode story wise where there is no mystery from the get who did it and why whereas DATL is about a substantial storyline ie taboo/myth in porn with a hide and seek investigation about what, who is who and why. Let alone that the girl is not the weird killer in this episode but the desperate victim. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Just because the subject matter is serious doesn't mean the episode was automatically great. Its decent but nothing special. The beginning was corny, that guy announcing the award was ridiculous. Gina getting a cat in the box what was that all about, and it hangs around Martys office? Sonny giving Glanz award to the homeless guy was comical and then he just walks away passed his car? not to mention the re-used stock footage, that story on the boat was completely forced. Oh and Penelope Ann Millers acting was terrible. Edited February 28, 2021 by RedDragon86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 vor 33 Minuten schrieb RedDragon86: Just because the subject matter is serious doesn't mean the episode was automatically great. Its decent but nothing special. The beginning was corny, that guy announcing the award was ridiculous. Gina getting a cat in the box what was that all about, and it hangs around Martys office? Sonny giving Glanz award to the homeless guy was comical and then he just walks away passed his car? not to mention the re-used stock footage, that story on the boat was completely forced. Oh and Penelope Ann Millers acting was terrible. Now you have started to use real arguments in your favor, irrespective if shared by others or not ... And just because you say it´s a "crappy version of LMD" it´s not automatically crap either. Everybody´s entitled to his/her own opinion. But it is evident that DATL has at least some (even a sophisticated) story and much more character development for our heroes than LMD and at least one should appreciate that "package" in DATL, even if it´s not one´s favorite. By the way: "the overrated God´s work" is also no reasonable argumentation either, as I have never noticed that general fan opinion highly values this episode - most fans see it as mere average in my observation. But same story as with DATL: GW has at least (even if not perfectly orchestrated) a very valuable message in it, as it was a unique attempt in 1987 - 6 years after AIDS first appeared - to create a positive message and understanding for gay people who were facing lot of hate and "gay disease" attitude at that time. That attempt should be appreciated at least. No need to disparage this episode in general, especially when compared to some other "duds" without message in season 4. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Tom said: Now you have started to use real arguments in your favor, irrespective if shared by others or not ... And just because you say it´s a "crappy version of LMD" it´s not automatically crap either. Everybody´s entitled to his/her own opinion. But it is evident that DATL has at least some (even a sophisticated) story and much more character development for our heroes than LMD and at least one should appreciate that "package" in DATL, even if it´s not one´s favorite. By the way: "the overrated God´s work" is also no reasonable argumentation either, as I have never noticed that general fan opinion highly values this episode - most fans see it as mere average in my observation. But same story as with DATL: GW has at least (even if not perfectly orchestrated) a very valuable message in it, as it was a unique attempt in 1987 - 6 years after AIDS first appeared - to create a positive message and understanding for gay people who were facing lot of hate and "gay disease" attitude at that time. That attempt should be appreciated at least. No need to disparage this episode in general, especially when compared to some other "duds" without message in season 4. I take the crappy thing back, that was immature of me and unfair to people who appreciate this episode. What I meant was it felt like a watered down version of LMD. Its decent but I don't know what all the fuss is about. I just think it over hyped because it was made in a poor season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) vor 7 Minuten schrieb RedDragon86: I take the crappy thing back, that was immature of me and unfair to people who appreciate this episode. What I meant was it felt like a watered down version of LMD. Its decent but I don't know what all the fuss is about. I just think it over hyped because it was made in a poor season. No fuss. But "It´s crappy." is not really a sophisticated argumentation pattern for a episode "discussion" thread. If you don´t like something, state at least one argument in your favor in order to give others the chance to follow your thinking and to prevent the perception of "bashing just for bashing´s sake". Finally: just because an episode was done in generally weak season 4 does not make it automatically weak too. (Another argumentation I cannot follow). If we try to set "script quality" as a biggest common denominator factor for episode assessment DATL would end up for sure as one of the better episodes of season 4. Edited February 28, 2021 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/28/2021 at 6:45 AM, Tom said: I will not refer to the second half as useless to deal with general statements without any argument why. the comparison with LMD is very far fetched as there is none. LMD is a pretty flat episode story wise where there is no mystery from the get who did it and why whereas DATL is about a substantial storyline ie taboo/myth in porn with a hide and seek investigation about what, who is who and why. Let alone that the girl is not the weird killer in this episode but the desperate victim. I'm fond of 'Little Miss Dangerous', but I have to agree that the episode is basically waiting for Jackie to be found out as the killer. I found 'Death and the Lady' to be intense & frightening, plus I didn't really ever know where things were headed. With the Jackie character, it was just a matter of time for her. I admit that Season 4 is all over the joint, but for me it's more unfocused than straight-up terrible. To me it tries to do EVERYTHING, and to the max, so it's like the episode is going to really work or really flounder. 'Child's Play', 'Vote of Confidence', 'Hell Hath No Fury...', 'Death and the Lady', 'Baseballs of Death', 'Honor Among Thieves', 'Indian Wars'...those are some of my favorite episodes of this season, even with all of the unfocused extremes being bandied about in terms of overall tone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 6:26 PM, sdiegolo78 said: Do you think Tubbs changed too? Yeah, I do think Tubbs changed; I thought he mellowed some (not like I wanted him to mellow or anything) and seemed less combative than he was in the early days of the series (maybe it was the beard:-). I also feel that, although he didn't become as cynical or burned-out as Crockett did, there were moments later in the series where he was prepared to accept the worst in a given situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdiegolo78 Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said: Yeah, I do think Tubbs changed; I thought he mellowed some (not like I wanted him to mellow or anything) and seemed less combative than he was in the early days of the series (maybe it was the beard:-). I also feel that, although he didn't become as cynical or burned-out as Crockett did, there were moments later in the series where he was prepared to accept the worst in a given situation. To me Tubbs seems certainly more mature for sure but still combative if needs be... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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