Writing Talk

[Robbie C.]

Since we have threads for car, sunglasses, and just about everything else, I figured I'd start a space where us nut job writers can ramble. Who's your favorite character to write for? Least favorite? Favorite time period (during the series, pre-, or post-), and other things us creative types obsess about, much to the confusion of everyone else.

[mjcmmv]

Uh oh....

 

 

[mjcmmv]

8 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

 Who's your favorite character to write for? Least favorite? Favorite time period (during the series, pre-, or post-), and other things us creative types obsess about, much to the confusion of everyone else.

My favorite character to write about is Sonny, but Castillo is close behind. I love dwelling on the "What if's" especially after the show ended, but it might be fun to write a story about the days before the show. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by mjcmmv

[mjcmmv]

In fact, writing about the characters during the Viet Nam War is near and dear to my heart. 

[Robbie C.]

I actually like writing Castillo most of all, though (obviously) I'll write just about any character into a story. Castillo's got a depth and consistency that's fun to explore, but there's still enough room you can create things for him that ring true to what we saw in the series. I thank EJO for that, mostly. Sonny's interesting because there's so much 'space' in what the show gave us that you can spin him into just about any direction you want. I'm starting to work on Tubbs now, and there's quite a bit of depth there, too. Rico's anger comes from deep inside, and you can spend quite a bit of time chasing that down. He was also consistent throughout the series, which makes it easier to come up with believable plot angles for him.

[Robbie C.]

1 minute ago, mjcmmv said:

In fact, writing about the characters during the Viet Nam War is near and dear to my heart. 

I've toyed with one about Castillo during that time. Kinda been there, done that with Sonny (although I do need to revise part of one of his stories now).

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I've toyed with one about Castillo during that time. Kinda been there, done that with Sonny (although I do need to revise part of one of his stories now).

Yes, as some of you know, I have one about the war that needs some revising, too!

 

[mjcmmv]

10 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

 I'm starting to work on Tubbs now, and there's quite a bit of depth there, too. Rico's anger comes from deep inside, and you can spend quite a bit of time chasing that down. He was also consistent throughout the series, which makes it easier to come up with believable plot angles for him.

Tubbs has that inscrutable expression on his face, sometimes, like he's saying "you don't REALLY know what I'm thinking". He has a shy smile, while in reality, he's steaming inside. 

[Robbie C.]

13 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Tubbs has that inscrutable expression on his face, sometimes, like he's saying "you don't REALLY know what I'm thinking". He has a shy smile, while in reality, he's steaming inside. 

I really liked how PMT played him, honestly. He made the most of his restricted screen time and gave us a character that's a great starting point for quite a few stories. The same goes for Trudy. I just wish Larry would have stuck around. There's great potential for Stan and Larry. I hope I captured some of it with Stan and Lester.

Stan's another fascinating character on his own. They just dropped that whole gambling angle and there was so much you could explore. When did it start? How did he kick it? DID he actually kick it? How big a role did Crockett's actions in "Down for the Count" play in it, and did it sour his attitude on the squad overall? So much potential and so many different ways you can take it.

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I really liked how PMT played him, honestly. He made the most of his restricted screen time and gave us a character that's a great starting point for quite a few stories. The same goes for Trudy. I just wish Larry would have stuck around. There's great potential for Stan and Larry. I hope I captured some of it with Stan and Lester.

Stan's another fascinating character on his own. They just dropped that whole gambling angle and there was so much you could explore. When did it start? How did he kick it? DID he actually kick it? How big a role did Crockett's actions in "Down for the Count" play in it, and did it sour his attitude on the squad overall? So much potential and so many different ways you can take it.

Great to explore! 

[Robbie C.]

10 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Great to explore! 

That's the beauty of it. And given the loose nature of Vice's time scale, you can fit stories in during the series run without missing a beat. It's like the Star Trek stuff...lots of room in that "five year mission" that was only explored for three seasons. You can slot a story in before or after just about any Vice episode you like (even the Burnett cycle...obviously things happened there that weren't covered, especially in the season gap).

[vicegirl85]

My two favorite characters are Sonny and Gina (and as I've said, I always hoped they'd get back together).  My one foray into MV fanfic was started to explore that potential angle, but after about 30 pages in (handwritten, this was back in the day) I stopped for some reason and later could never figure out how to move forward with the story.  Once I discovered MJ's fics, and amonitrate's stories, I felt like some people who really knew Sonny had written good stuff, and I didn't need to.   I'd still like to see a story where they do get together (and Sonny doesn't die :))!  I agree that they'd both have to leave Vice for this to work, and no idea how that might look as time goes by...

I think I'd enjoy writing about Sonny after his return from Vietnam, when he meets and falls in love with Caroline (although in my mental Crockett history she's only a couple of years younger than him and they met in college).  I'm not particularly a romance reader but I don't have the football/ car/ gun/ military service/ cop expertise to write about those things and they aren't super-interesting to read about (for me).  Although luckily that means I'm probably not too critical of those aspects!  You can see that right there I'm majorly handicapped when it comes to writing any kind of MV fanfic, LOL.

But  agree, Castillo has a lot of fascinating little potential pathways to explore, and Tubbs' backstory has never been told.  His past may be consistent, i.e. NYC cop with a brother on the force that was killed by Calderone--but we have no idea if he has parents, a grandmother who raised him, other siblings, etc.  I like the way you inserted his dad into the story in The More Things Change, RobbieC.  

As far as Switek, I agree, the gambling story would be a great one to explore.  It has a canon basis but so little was ever revealed about it on the show that it has tons of potential.  It could have been a backstory or secondary storyline for a whole season.  Your Gina-Stan pairing was really good and when she told rico, "I love him, Rico," I believed it.  It may not be the way I see them but it was well-done and believable.

Both Trudy and Gina have potential for interesting storylines, too.  Stories that don't necessarily involve posing as hookers.  I'd be interested in their backstories as well.

The Crockett-Caitlin pairing annoys me, mainly because I felt like it was developed and portrayed in a very rushed way on the show, and of course because it also cut out Gina. I actually don't like to read about him with other women besides Gina or Caroline...  

 

[Robbie C.]

12 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

The Crockett-Caitlin pairing annoys me, mainly because I felt like it was developed and portrayed in a very rushed way on the show, and of course because it also cut out Gina. I actually don't like to read about him with other women besides Gina or Caroline...  

You must really hate Jenny, then....

Honestly, I think more time passed in the Caitlin arc than we were ever shown. The same thing happened with Burnett. Look at the time gap between the S4 ender and the opening of S5. Time was never a solid concept in the Vice universe, so they could have been involved for months. We just don't know.

I come at Sonny (obviously) a bit differently. I think he got with Caroline because he was looking for something normal after Vietnam, and then discovered normal didn't work. And actually we know nothing about the families of any of the characters aside from Gina, so there's lots of room there.

And welcome to the party!

[mjcmmv]

28 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

My two favorite characters are Sonny and Gina (and as I've said, I always hoped they'd get back together).  My one foray into MV fanfic was started to explore that potential angle, but after about 30 pages in (handwritten, this was back in the day) I stopped for some reason and later could never figure out how to move forward with the story.  Once I discovered MJ's fics, and amonitrate's stories, I felt like some people who really knew Sonny had written good stuff, and I didn't need to.   I'd still like to see a story where they do get together (and Sonny doesn't die :))!  I agree that they'd both have to leave Vice for this to work, and no idea how that might look as time goes by...

I think I'd enjoy writing about Sonny after his return from Vietnam, when he meets and falls in love with Caroline (although in my mental Crockett history she's only a couple of years younger than him and they met in college).  I'm not particularly a romance reader but I don't have the football/ car/ gun/ military service/ cop expertise to write about those things and they aren't super-interesting to read about (for me).  Although luckily that means I'm probably not too critical of those aspects!  You can see that right there I'm majorly handicapped when it comes to writing any kind of MV fanfic, LOL.

But  agree, Castillo has a lot of fascinating little potential pathways to explore, and Tubbs' backstory has never been told.  His past may be consistent, i.e. NYC cop with a brother on the force that was killed by Calderone--but we have no idea if he has parents, a grandmother who raised him, other siblings, etc.  I like the way you inserted his dad into the story in The More Things Change, RobbieC.  

As far as Switek, I agree, the gambling story would be a great one to explore.  It has a canon basis but so little was ever revealed about it on the show that it has tons of potential.  It could have been a backstory or secondary storyline for a whole season.  Your Gina-Stan pairing was really good and when she told rico, "I love him, Rico," I believed it.  It may not be the way I see them but it was well-done and believable.

Both Trudy and Gina have potential for interesting storylines, too.  Stories that don't necessarily involve posing as hookers.  I'd be interested in their backstories as well.

The Crockett-Caitlin pairing annoys me, mainly because I felt like it was developed and portrayed in a very rushed way on the show, and of course because it also cut out Gina. I actually don't like to read about him with other women besides Gina or Caroline...  

 

This is such good commentary! You have a lot of insight into the characters! Don't give up on your story, please! 

[mjcmmv]

13 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

 

And welcome to the party!

Agreed!!!

[Robbie C.]

7 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Both Trudy and Gina have potential for interesting storylines, too.  Stories that don't necessarily involve posing as hookers.  I'd be interested in their backstories as well.

Echoes digs into Trudy's background a bit more, as did The More Things Change...

But there's plenty of room for our own individual takes on future events, so long as it's true to the basic concept of the characters. If you respect that, anything's possible.

[summer84]

56 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

My two favorite characters are Sonny and Gina (and as I've said, I always hoped they'd get back together).  My one foray into MV fanfic was started to explore that potential angle, but after about 30 pages in (handwritten, this was back in the day) I stopped for some reason and later could never figure out how to move forward with the story.  Once I discovered MJ's fics, and amonitrate's stories, I felt like some people who really knew Sonny had written good stuff, and I didn't need to.   I'd still like to see a story where they do get together (and Sonny doesn't die :))!  I agree that they'd both have to leave Vice for this to work, and no idea how that might look as time goes by...

I think I'd enjoy writing about Sonny after his return from Vietnam, when he meets and falls in love with Caroline (although in my mental Crockett history she's only a couple of years younger than him and they met in college).  I'm not particularly a romance reader but I don't have the football/ car/ gun/ military service/ cop expertise to write about those things and they aren't super-interesting to read about (for me).  Although luckily that means I'm probably not too critical of those aspects!  You can see that right there I'm majorly handicapped when it comes to writing any kind of MV fanfic, LOL.

But  agree, Castillo has a lot of fascinating little potential pathways to explore, and Tubbs' backstory has never been told.  His past may be consistent, i.e. NYC cop with a brother on the force that was killed by Calderone--but we have no idea if he has parents, a grandmother who raised him, other siblings, etc.  I like the way you inserted his dad into the story in The More Things Change, RobbieC.  

As far as Switek, I agree, the gambling story would be a great one to explore.  It has a canon basis but so little was ever revealed about it on the show that it has tons of potential.  It could have been a backstory or secondary storyline for a whole season.  Your Gina-Stan pairing was really good and when she told rico, "I love him, Rico," I believed it.  It may not be the way I see them but it was well-done and believable.

Both Trudy and Gina have potential for interesting storylines, too.  Stories that don't necessarily involve posing as hookers.  I'd be interested in their backstories as well.

The Crockett-Caitlin pairing annoys me, mainly because I felt like it was developed and portrayed in a very rushed way on the show, and of course because it also cut out Gina. I actually don't like to read about him with other women besides Gina or Caroline...  

 

I definitely agree on, that Sonny and Gina should have gotten back together for good. They had great chemistry both on and off screen and they were always shown, don't know if the right word is flirting, but they had a close bond and always had an affectionate interaction. Although, I think it was meant on a friendly level. Since they ended up good friends in the end. For instance in the episode, "Kill Shot," I believe, where he walks past her touching her stomach. Or the wink he gives in "El Viejo." Although they were dating, early on, I'm not sure, how I would describe their relationsship. Were they an actual steady couple? I think maybe some of the writers wanted them together, but it wasen't aprroved by the producers in charge. And also Crockett was ready to marry Theresa, if it hadn't turned out the way it did. 

In this interview Michael Mann talks about Tubbs's background, that was created, but never explored. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by summer84

[Robbie C.]

I actually try to base my characters as much as possible off the pilot script, which was very much Yerkovich's creation. I find he's got a really solid feel for their voices and gives good thumbnail sketches. And then I try to line them up with as many facts as I can and build on that. Trudy was always shown as tough, so I've given her something of a street background. Tubbs, with his anger and devotion to certain people, kind of dictated the background I gave him. Castillo was the same, but you had a longer timeline to explain. I haven't messed with Gina much, honestly. She's not my favorite, and others have that well in hand in any case. Stan...I'm getting there with him. Sonny's tough because they made so many errors and omissions with his background. I first went after him to figure out his Vietnam service, and it evolved into what I've written now.

[mjcmmv]

17 minutes ago, summer84 said:

I definitely agree on, that Sonny and Gina should have gotten back together for good. They had great chemistry both on and off screen and they were always shown, don't know if the right word is flirting, but they had a close bond and always had an affectionate interaction. Although, I think it was meant on a friendly level. Since they ended up good friends in the end. For instance in the episode, "Kill Shot," I believe, where he walks past her touching her stomach. Or the wink he gives in "El Viejo." Although they were dating, early on, I'm not sure, how I would describe their relationsship. Were they an actual steady couple? I think maybe some of the writers wanted them together, but it wasen't aprroved by the producers in charge. And also Crockett was ready to marry Theresa, if it hadn't turned out the way it did. 

In this interview Michael Mann talks about Tubbs's background, that was created, but never explored. 

 

 

I never saw this! Tubbs background was extensive. Why didn't they put that out there? Or did I miss it??

[summer84]

We got some background story on Gina in the episode "When Irish Eyes Are Crying" and "Heroes of The Revolution," but we unfortunately never learned anything about Trudy's past and personal life. Although there were some details like in the first episode centered around her character "The Dutch Oven." When she is at home playing the piano and before that painting her face, as she prepares herself for the undercover role. It shows a creative personality. In real life she majored in art and also had her own art gallery called "Don't Ask." Also she is shown, as very dedicated to her work as a cop. "It's not what she does, it's who she is."

An extract from The book, The Making of Miami Vice with Olivia's take on her character:

"When I first got the part, some of my actor friends were saying that I had to be a character, that I should do something the same every week so it catches on. I started noticing that everyone else was doing that with their characters, but I figured people aren't really like that, especially someone working undercover. So I decided to make Trudy an emotionally complex person. She's moody,eclectic." And while Trudy isn't a walking fashion show, Olivia makes a point of never dressing her the same, of changing her hairstyle. "Women are always changing and I try to show her different sides."

Edited July 6, 2019 by summer84

[summer84]

30 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

I never saw this! Tubbs background was extensive. Why didn't they put that out there? Or did I miss it??

They never mentioned, that on the show from what I know of. I guess, outer circumstances like DJ's popularity and the change of direction from S3 on had an impact on that. I'm guessing. 

[Robbie C.]

5 minutes ago, summer84 said:

They never mentioned, that on the show from what I know of. I guess, outer circumstances like DJ's popularity and the change of direction from S3 on had an impact on that. I'm guessing. 

I suspect also that, whether people want to admit it or not, the visual slant of Vice compared to other cop shows also played a role. When you're so focused on visuals it's easy to lose track of, or (intentionally or not) deemphasize, the characters.

[mjcmmv]

29 minutes ago, summer84 said:

We got some background story on Gina in the episode "When Irish Eyes Are Crying" and "Heroes of The Revolution," but we unfortunately never learned anything about Trudy's past and personal life. Although there were some details like in the first episode centered around her character "The Dutch Oven." When she is at home playing the piano and before that painting her face, as she prepares herself for the undercover role. It shows a creative personality. In real life she majored in art and also had her own art gallery called "Don't Ask." Also she is shown, as very dedicated to her work as a cop. "It's not what she does, it's who she is."

An extract from The book, The Making of Miami Vice with Olivia's take on her character:

"When I first got the part, some of my actor friends were saying that I had to be a character, that I should do something the same every week so it catches on. I started noticing that everyone else was doing that with their characters, but I figured people aren't really like that, especially someone working undercover. So I decided to make Trudy an emotionally complex person. She's moody,eclectic." And while Trudy isn't a walking fashion show, Olivia makes a point of never dressing her the same, of changing her hairstyle. "Women are always changing and I try to show her different sides."

Great background material!

[Robbie C.]

I always thought she captured the complexity of Trudy quite well, actually. And she had guts. Who else would take on Missing Hours and make something of it? I try to think of that when I write for Trudy.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Robbie C.

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I always thought she captured the complexity of Trudy quite well, actually. And she had guts. Who else would take on Missing Hours and make something of it? I try to think of that when I write for Trudy.

She was gutsy, no two ways about it. In fact, I always thought she was stronger than Gina. For me, Dutch Oven was the proof.