Sonny's Code

[mjcmmv]

Not sure if this was ever brought up on this forum before, so I'll just throw it out there for discussion and see where it goes. 

Aside from the Burnett Arc, how many times can you recall when Sonny "cut corners", disregarded protocol or broke his own code of ethics when  trying to solve a case or "catch the bad guys".

I can think of three instances, but I'll keep them to myself for now, so others can contribute. 

[Robbie C.]

I could go on at some length about this (and have in other threads), but I'll also hold back for now.

[mjcmmv]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

I could go on at some length about this (and have in other threads), but I'll also hold back for now.

Looking forward to your input!

[Robbie C.]

I think one interesting one is how he hung Noogie out to dry in Cool Runnin'. Early on we see he's willing to put his case ahead of the welfare of a CI; something he'd likely waste another cop for doing.

[mjcmmv]

Crockett had a 

3 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

I think one interesting one is how he hung Noogie out to dry in Cool Runnin'. Early on we see he's willing to put his case ahead of the welfare of a CI; something he'd likely waste another cop for doing.

So true. And Rico called him on it. I loved that interaction between them. Rico and Sonny were testing each other and Rico wasn't sure he liked what he saw!

[summer84]

Good topic and question! 

In "One Eyed Jack," when he tries to help and get the tools back of Barbara's husband. Taking bribe from Demarco. 

[summer84]

Shooting Hackman in "Deliver us from Evil." That was personal revenge. But my question is, would you say his action were justified? I understand it at some level, although in the end it wasn't ok. Not just as a cop, but as a human being. Unless there wasn't any other way, that Hackman would have had to answer for his actions. Maybe I'm a bit conflicted about it. But he should have gone to jail. Crockett always tried to stop others from, what he ended up doing himself. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by summer84

[mjcmmv]

Crockett had a 

11 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

I think one interesting one is how he hung Noogie out to dry in Cool Runnin'. Early on we see he's willing to put his case ahead of the welfare of a CI; something he'd likely waste another cop for doing.

So true. And Rico called him on it. I loved that interaction between them. Rico and Sonny were testing each other and Rico wasn't sure he liked what he saw!

[mjcmmv]

8 minutes ago, summer84 said:

Shooting Hackman in "Deliver us from Evil." That was personal revenge. But my question is, would you say hid action were justified? I understand it at some level, although in the end it wasn't ok. Not just as a cop, but as a human being. Unless there wasn't any other way, that Hackman would have had to answer for his actions. Maybe I'm a bit conflicted about it. But he should have gone to jail. Crockett always tried to stop others from what, he ended up doing himself. 

Sonny became the executioner, instead of the State of Florida.  You're right, he went completely against his own code of ethics and if he had been arrested for murder, I think he would have served time.

Good answer. 

[Matt5]

23 minutes ago, summer84 said:

Shooting Hackman in "Deliver us from Evil." That was personal revenge. But my question is, would you say his action were justified? I understand it at some level, although in the end it wasn't ok. Not just as a cop, but as a human being. Unless there wasn't any other way, that Hackman would have had to answer for his actions. Maybe I'm a bit conflicted about it. But he should have gone to jail. Crockett always tried to stop others from, what he ended up doing himself. 

Interesting Summer - by “Deliver Us from Evil” Crockett had enough. Interestingly the first time he said it would be time to get out was in Season 3s “Forgive Us Our Debts” where Deliver Us continued from a year and four or so months later.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Matt5

[Matt5]

9 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Sonny became the executioner, instead of the State of Florida.  You're right, he went completely against his own code of ethics and if he had been arrested for murder, I think he would have served time.

Good answer. 

Although Hackman had a gun - it was directed at Crockett it was it? We will never know. This perfectly continued into the tired, burnt out, almost depressed Season 5 Crockett.

[summer84]

15 minutes ago, Matt5 said:

Although Hackman had a gun - it was directed at Crockett it was it? We will never know. This perfectly continued into the tired, burnt out, almost depressed Season 5 Crockett.

I couldn't really see the gun on Hackman until after Crockett shot him. Apparently it was added there by NBC. In that case, it doesn't count to me, if it was done by the network. So I disregard it. And Hackman did say he was unarmed. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by summer84

[summer84]

28 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Sonny became the executioner, instead of the State of Florida.  You're right, he went completely against his own code of ethics and if he had been arrested for murder, I think he would have served time.

Good answer. 

I wonder, why he didn't get arrested. That no one found out about it. I understand Crockett was burned out by this time, considering everything, he had gone through, this pushed him over the edge. It was the tip of the ice cube, as Izzy would say. Although I was conflicted in my previous post probably since, I wanted to defend our beloved hero a bit, I do want to clarify, that what Crockett did wasn't ok. The law should have judged him, even though the law isn't always fair. 

[vicegirl85]

11 minutes ago, summer84 said:

I couldn't really see the gun on Hackman until after Crockett shot him. Apparently it was added there by NBC. In that case, it doesn't count to me, if it was done by the network. So I disregard it. And Hackman did say he was unarmed. 

While I do believe that (in reality) NBC censors added the gun, I don't necessarily believe Hackman was being truthful when he said he was unarmed.  He's lied to Sonny before, after all.

[Matt5]

1 minute ago, vicegirl85 said:

While I do believe that (in reality) NBC censors added the gun, I don't necessarily believe Hackman was being truthful when he said he was unarmed.  He's lied to Sonny before, after all.

I think as Huge fans we will always think Hackman had a gun or was armed somehow. 

[vicegirl85]

1 minute ago, summer84 said:

I wonder, why he didn't get arrested. That no one found out about it. I understand Crockett was burned out by this time, considering everything, he had gone through, this pushed him over the edge. It was the tip of the ice cube, as Izzy would say. Although I was conflicted in my previous post probably since, I wanted to defend our beloved hero a bit, I do want to clarify, that what Crockett did wasn't ok. The law should have judged him, even though the law isn't always fair. 

According to the storyline, it seemed to me that Hackman had taken refuge in either a private island or possibly even one that was part of/governed by another country and either because he had bribed the local officials or whatever reason, he couldn't be extradited to face justice in Miami.  Sonny had no legal means of bringing Hackman to justice, but by the same token, Hackman was living outside the law anyway.  So if something happened to him, there was no one to really care about going after his killer.  They (i.e. local officials) had already been well-paid to keep their silence about his presence on the island, so why should they now try to solve his murder?

[Matt5]

19 minutes ago, summer84 said:

I couldn't really see the gun on Hackman until after Crockett shot him. Apparently it was added there by NBC. In that case, it doesn't count to me, if it was done by the network. So I disregard it. And Hackman did say he was unarmed. 

Yes exactly we the audience thought Sonny had stepped over the line but then we saw the gun. I’m pretty sure it was written that way. But your point is valid the network wouldn’t have wanted the Hackman unarmed scenario. Losing your memory an episode later is far more acceptable for Crockett to blow people away.

[Matt5]

4 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

According to the storyline, it seemed to me that Hackman had taken refuge in either a private island or possibly even one that was part of/governed by another country and either because he had bribed the local officials or whatever reason, he couldn't be extradited to face justice in Miami.  Sonny had no legal means of bringing Hackman to justice, but by the same token, Hackman was living outside the law anyway.  So if something happened to him, there was no one to really care about going after his killer.  They (i.e. local officials) had already been well-paid to keep their silence about his presence on the island, so why should they now try to solve his murder?

Yes very good. He would never have been tried in a Florida court.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Matt5

[Ferrariman]

22 minutes ago, summer84 said:

 And Hackman did say he was unarmed. 

Would you believe anything Hackman said?

[Matt5]

4 minutes ago, Ferrariman said:

Would you believe anything Hackman said?

As Crockett would say he was a snake, part reptile part rodent, a major sleazoid.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Matt5

[mjcmmv]

1 hour ago, Matt5 said:

Although Hackman had a gun - it was directed at Crockett it was it? We will never know. This perfectly continued into the tired, burnt out, almost depressed Season 5 Crockett.

Ah, that controversy about Hackman's gun has been chewed on for years and we'll probably all go on "chewing" on it for years to come. I love this topic. 

When I first saw this episode, I was convinced Hackman had that gun, too. Then, all the naysayers jumped on board and insisted the dark side of Sonny committing a crime was the answer. They felt that Sonny planted the gun, perhaps to make it look like suicide, or to allow him to say he shot in self defense. The gun plant idea was supposedly added on since NBC felt the American viewers would never accept that a TV hero would do such a thing and to tarnish Sonny Crockett's image like that would bring down a ton of criticism. Who knows. 

I was in the "Hackman had the gun" camp for a long time, but now, I prefer to believe the writers were ahead of their time. Sonny was not infallible and he probably had a touch of PTSD after what he had been through. So in my mind, this was homicide, but in many ways, justifiable. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by mjcmmv

[mjcmmv]

But, to get back to the original question, what other ways did Crockett bend the law? Robbie mentions the Cool Running episode when Crockett almost got Noogie killed. But there are other examples. 

I've thought of two more, but I'm sure you guys will come up with others. 

[summer84]

5 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

While I do believe that (in reality) NBC censors added the gun, I don't necessarily believe Hackman was being truthful when he said he was unarmed.  He's lied to Sonny before, after all.

You have a good point there. 

5 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

Would you believe anything Hackman said?

You're right of course. Hackman couldn't be trusted. 

We don't know for sure, whether he had a gun or not, because of the story about NBC adding it there. I am curious, what it originally said in the script. 

Would be interesting to hear more examples! 

Edited August 6, 2019 by summer84

[Robbie C.]

Let’s not forget Down for the Count, when his zealousness got Larry killed. To me that makes Hackman look like a speed bump. We’d seen shades of it before with Barbara, Noogie and Izzy, not to mention Eddie in the pilot. 

[summer84]

5 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

According to the storyline, it seemed to me that Hackman had taken refuge in either a private island or possibly even one that was part of/governed by another country and either because he had bribed the local officials or whatever reason, he couldn't be extradited to face justice in Miami.  Sonny had no legal means of bringing Hackman to justice, but by the same token, Hackman was living outside the law anyway.  So if something happened to him, there was no one to really care about going after his killer.  They (i.e. local officials) had already been well-paid to keep their silence about his presence on the island, so why should they now try to solve his murder?

Thank you for explaining. I haven't watched this episode in a long time, so I didn't know all of the details.