Miami Vice TV series on Blu-ray

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, MrQuiche said:

Elephant films set has two problems that depends on your taste, the look of the set and the colors in the episodes, the deluxe edition is good but all of the extra stuff is written in French

Yes, it is a French set, so the language is in French. However, the menus are not hard to navigate or figure out.

I have tons of memorabilia & info over the years, so I don’t need the extra stuff. I didn’t get the deluxe set…I got the regular one that just has the episodes (although there are some cool special features & interviews).

The colors of the box art are somewhat interesting & different. It’s more silhouette type pictures, with the cast too…but it’s kind of cool! Something that hasn’t been done before. However, that’s just the box art. As for the episodes themselves, they are the best!

The HD quality of the colors is amazing!! From everything I’ve researched & seen, it’s the best set available (even over Mill Creek’s, Koch/Plaion’s, and Fabulous Films’). 

Edited March 18 by ViceFanMan

[MrQuiche]

I prefer the koch colors, on the Elephant one the colors especially whites are too harsh, so when there's sun it blinds the whole picture

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, MrQuiche said:

I prefer the koch colors, on the Elephant one the colors especially whites are too harsh, so when there's sun it blinds the whole picture

From the clips & photos I’ve seen, and also talking with others who have the Koch set, the colors are more on the neon, “bright” side…rather than the soft pastels of the original show. It seems like they kind of did their own HD color-scheme. Some have even commented on strange skin tone (a yellowish/greenish tone) on some of the actors in certain scenes. It seems as if they “overdid” the colors with everything. 

The Elephant Films set is much more accurate to the show, and there’s no “blinding” picture with whites or any other color. It’s much more like the show originally was & was meant to look—but in HD! 

But, to each his or her own…get whichever set you like or want. 

[Paul Veres]

Posted this in the more designated thread but think I should also link it here - got a box of the new Koch batch:

[Paul Veres]

OK, so I read this whole thread...

First of all, I wish I did that months ago because then I'd see the original tip-off from @SwissTubbs back in late 2022 that the second Koch batch was availble and wouldn't put so much miracle into the way I found out about it a month ago.

Half of the thread reminded me of that viral picture of a dress few years ago where people argued incessantly whether it was blue and black, or white and gold (looks blue and gold to me!).

Which is an important example underscoring that we all see slightly differently and no such argument will lead to "the truth".

I never watched the original airing of the show in the 80s, and even if I did I probably wouldn't remember those visuals well enough to claim I have the intuition of what true MV was. Then again, that truth was true to the viewers, taking it through the limitations and differences of the television sets of the time. Was it the truth the crew and cast felt when making the show? Who knows.

I also haven't spent so much time with the show over the years as most people on this forum did, thus I'm just not as sensitive to it. So when I saw some direct comparisons between Elephant and Koch, in some instances all I saw was "well this one is a little lighter and this one is a little darker" and I wasn't convinced that that "darker" was better (I'm just simplifying, not diminishing Koch's work). 

So Koch put in extra effort while Elephant didn't and that should generally deliver objectively better result, but since video editing is more art than science, you can absolutely overshoot. But then again, the "truth" is elusive so who is to say that you did.

Some examples though are absolutely compelling to me, e.g. the second still below has better colors, better light and shade balance (and is sharper).

(kudos to @SwissTubbs for putting the comparisons together)

On the Koch box itself, even though I liked the original design for its unique take on MV, even to me it's not what MV feels like, it's just too garish. It's almost like what MV would look like if it was made today - overdone, overleazous, trying too hard... instead of relaxed as you should be when wearing slip-ons and deconstructed blazers.. So I agree with @bodie that the new box is more elegant, though even there I think the what I'd call maroon color is too strong.

Elephant box in my opinion is very... French  The only depiction of Crockett and Tubss I dislike more is this abomination on the 34th street:

What I love about Koch is English subtitles and all the objective frame/sound fixing they did. I also believe the love and dedication they put in the work give them an enxtra point, and to me net-net the Koch edition, whether 1st or 2nd batch, is the best overall MV fan package, including due to the bonus materials. To be fair, Elephant also has a version with a neat bonus episode guide book as @ViceFanMan highlighted:

However, there is one drawback with Koch. And I'm surprised there's been very little, none really, except for the note from @bodie in 2020, conversation about the fact that Koch version is cropped. While colors can be percieved subjectively, there is no way around the fact that Mill Creek and Elephant editions offer you, for the lack of a better word, more of the show.

To me as a consumer today, regardless of the nostalgia or what was originally aired, if I can get more of the frame, everything else being equal, I'll take that. I don't care if it goes from 4:3 to some odd 4.05:3 or whatever. So in the end my big question is WHY would Koch crop it?

What's additionally puzzling is that it's not the case in ALL episodes. In some there is no crop. In some it is neglibly invisible (like the pair above). But in some it's kind of glaring. Here Gina's chair almost loses its leg 

A Koch stalwart might say, "hey it's just a chair leg, who cares!" (I can feel @Tom's falcon talons sinking into my shoulders ). Sure. But also why not just let it be? So we can remove the decimals after "4" in 4:3??

Lastly, big shoutout to @ivoryjones for the logo color analysis. That might be the most impressive MV nerding out I've seen here, beaiting my overanalyzing of the closing montage  I still appreciate your personal color guidance to me when I just joined the site in 2020!

Edited May 8 by Paul Veres

[Dadrian]

5 minutes ago, Paul Veres said:

looks blue and gold to me

Delete your profile  

[Dadrian]

@Paul Veres I love that you brought blue dress reference to this discussion, as perception can be so polarizing—and bring out the worst in people for no good reason! Fantastic post man! 

Edited May 8 by Dadrian

[ViceFanMan]

12 minutes ago, Paul Veres said:

OK, so I read this whole thread...

First of all, I wish I did that months ago because then I'd see the original tip-off from @SwissTubbs back in late 2022 that the second Koch batch was availble and wouldn't put so much miracle into the way I found out about it a month ago.

Half of the thread reminded me of that viral picture of a dress few years ago where people argued incessantly whether it was blue and black, or white and gold (looks blue and gold to me!).

Which is an important example underscoring that we all see slightly differently and no such argument will lead to "the truth".

I never watched the original airing of the show in the 80s, and even if I did I probably wouldn't remember those visuals well enough to claim I have the intuition of what true MV was. Then again, that truth was true to the viewers, taking it through the limitations and differences of the television sets of the time. Was it the truth the crew and cast felt when making the show? Who knows.

I also haven't spent so much time with the show over the years as most people on this forum did, thus I'm just not as sensitive to it. So when I saw some direct comparisons between Elephant and Koch, in some instances all I saw was "well this one is a little lighter and this one is a little darker" and I wasn't convinced that that "darker" was better (I'm just simplifying, not diminishing Koch's work). 

So Koch put in extra effort while Elephant didn't and that should generally deliver objectively better result, but since video editing is more art than science, you can absolutely overshoot. But then again, the "truth" is elusive so who is to say that you did.

Some examples though are absolutely compelling to me, e.g. the second still below has better colors, better light and shade balance (and is sharper).

(kudos to @SwissTubbs for putting the comparisons together)

On the Koch box itself, even though I liked the original design for its unique take on MV, even to me it's not what MV feels like, it's just too garish. It's almost like what MV would look like if it was made today - overdone, overleazous, trying too hard... instead of relaxed as you should be when wearing slip-ons and deconstructed blazers.. So I agree with @bodie that the new box is more elegant, though even there I think the what I'd call maroon color is too strong.

Elephant box in my opinion is very... French  The only depiction of Crockett and Tubss I dislike more is this abomination on the 34th street:

What I love about Koch is English subtitles and all the objective frame/sound fixing they did. I also believe the love and dedication they put in the work give them an enxtra point, and to me net-net the Koch edition, whether 1st or 2nd batch, is the best overall MV fan package, including due to the bonus materials. To be fair, Elephant also has a version with a neat bonus episode guide book as @ViceFanMan highlighted:

However, there is one drawback with Koch. And I'm surprised there's been very little, none really, except for the note from @bodie in 2020, conversation about the fact that Koch version is cropped. While colors can be percieved subjectively, there is no way around the fact that Mill Creek and Elephant editions offer you, for the lack of a better word, more of the show.

To me as a consumer today, regardless of the nostalgia or what was originally aired, if I can get more of the frame, everything else being equal, I'll take that. I don't care if it goes from 4:3 to some odd 4.05:3 or whatever. So in the end my big question is WHY would Koch crop it?

What's additionally puzzling is that it's not the case in ALL episodes. In some there is no crop. In some it is neglibly invisible (like the pair above). But in some it's kind of glaring. Here Gina's chair almost loses its leg 

A Koch stalwart might say, "hey it's just a chair leg, who cares!" (I can feel @Tom's falcon talons sinking into my shoulders ). Sure. But also why not just let it be? So we can remove the decimals after "4" in 4:3??

Lastly, big shoutout to @ivoryjones for the logo color analysis. That might be the most impressive MV nerding out I've seen here, beaiting my overanalyzing of the closing montage  I still appreciate your personal color guidance to me when I just joined the site in 2020!

Everyone has their opinions…get which set you like. I have original airings (that are in amazing condition), so I have compared lots of things. Koch/Plaion, or whatever name they have did lots of work on their set/s…no one has questioned that.

But, I’ve seen lots of stills/pics from episodes on their set, as well as I’ve talked with others who have the set, and lots of the colors seem to be very neon/bright/harsh compared to the soft pastels of the original show. Koch seems to have almost created their own color style. But, maybe you enjoy that? That’s cool! Some however, have also mentioned odd skin tone on actors in some scenes…almost a yellowish-greenish tint.

Elephant Films did just as much work with restoring their episodes in HD, but the colors are much more accurate to the original show, and how it was meant to look. I’ve also watched and read reviews of the sets by “professional” physical media critics/reviewers (as this is what they pretty much are paid to do)…and although there are ones who of course love the Koch set, there were also ones that stated the Elephant Films one is better, for various reasons.

The box art for the Elephant Films set is definitely different…but I kind of like the silhouette idea. However, regardless of box art, I’m more interested in the episodes themselves. 

Koch also claims to have “uncut” episodes…giving the idea or impression they have original NBC, unedited/uncut episodes. This is not true! There actually is no “official” set (or streaming episodes) that are true original uncut broadcasts…Universal used syndicated reruns for their sets, and this is subsequently the episodes they have made available to all other companies and countries…including Koch/Plaion.

What Koch is referring to with “uncut” episodes is, they are the U.S. syndicated rerun versions that Germany previously did not have. In the past other countries outside the U.S. have had even more edited, “butchered” reruns, than the U.S. versions. A few years ago Koch finally had access to the U.S. reruns (what Universal used for their original sets), and so for the German audience the episodes were more “complete” than their previous ones…but, they are not true uncut original network broadcasts.

This topic has been hashed, rehashed, and “regurgitated”  many times over!  I have the sets of MV that I’m perfectly satisfied with (my original airings set with original commercial-bumpers if you know what those were & those episodes have been transferred to DVDs—and is my favorite, the original Universal season DVD sets, the Mill Creek Blu-ray set, and the Elephant Films Blu-ray set).

For the official sets, basically it all comes down to what set you think you’ll like & why. Everyone has their opinions & views. Get whatever set you want and enjoy! 

[Paul Veres]

6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Everyone has their opinions…get which set you like. I have original airings (that are in amazing condition), so I have compared lots of things. Koch/Plaion, or whatever name they have did lots of work on their set/s…no one has questioned that.

But, I’ve seen lots of stills/pics from episodes on their set, as well as I’ve talked with others who have the set, and lots of the colors seem to be very neon/bright/harsh compared to the soft pastels of the original show. Koch seems to have almost created their own color style. But, maybe you enjoy that? That’s cool! Some however, have also mentioned odd skin tone on actors in some scenes…almost a yellowish-greenish tint.

Elephant Films did just as much work with restoring their episodes in HD, but the colors are much more accurate to the original show, and how it was meant to look. I’ve also watched and read reviews of the sets by “professional” physical media critics/reviewers (as this is what they pretty much are paid to do)…and although there are ones who of course love the Koch set, there were also ones that stated the Elephant Films one is better, for various reasons.

The box art for the Elephant Films set is definitely different…but I kind of like the silhouette idea. However, regardless of box art, I’m more interested in the episodes themselves. 

Koch also claims to have “uncut” episodes…giving the idea or impression they have original NBC, unedited/uncut episodes. This is not true! There actually is no “official” set (or streaming episodes) that are true original uncut broadcasts…Universal used syndicated reruns for their sets, and this is subsequently the episodes they have made available to all other companies and countries…including Koch/Plaion.

What Koch is referring to with “uncut” episodes is, they are the U.S. syndicated rerun versions that Germany previously did not have. In the past other countries outside the U.S. have had even more edited, “butchered” reruns, than the U.S. versions. A few years ago Koch finally had access to the U.S. reruns (what Universal used for their original sets), and so for the German audience the episodes were more “complete” than their previous ones…but, they are not true uncut original network broadcasts.

This topic has been hashed, rehashed, and “regurgitated”  many times over!  I have the sets of MV that I’m perfectly satisfied with (my original airings set with original commercial-bumpers if you know what those were & those episodes have been transferred to DVDs—and is my favorite, the original Universal season DVD sets, the Mill Creek Blu-ray set, and the Elephant Films Blu-ray set).

For the official sets, basically it all comes down to what set you think you’ll like & why. Everyone has their opinions & views. Get whatever set you want and enjoy! 

Sooo... to get practical here, how can I get the version that was aired in the 80s, with or without the commercials?

Edited May 8 by Paul Veres

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, Paul Veres said:

Sooo... to get practical here, how can I get the version that was aired in the 80s, with or without the commercials?

I would love to make the original airing episodes available to everyone, but unfortunately, I would probably get myself into a lot of legal trouble if I did that  

Back around 2011/2012 I happened to come into contact with another MV fan that had literally taped every single episode as it originally aired. They also included all of the original commercial-bumpers, although the commercials themselves are cut out.

That person had those episodes transferred from the original VHS tapes to DVDs, and somehow I was blessed, or lucky enough to get them to make me a set as well. The episodes are not digitally remastered or in HD by any means…but the condition, colors, sound, picture quality, etc…for how old the episodes are is amazing! It’s pure, unaltered, unedited, original MV.

[airtommy]

49 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Universal used syndicated reruns for their sets,

Which syndicated reruns, USA Network?  The syndicated reruns on TNN had a bunch of things cut out, and Universal restored 99% of that.  It seems to me like Universal had the NBC reruns, missing the tiny number of things that NBC removed for 2nd and 3rd airings in the 1980s.

 

[ViceFanMan]

9 hours ago, airtommy said:

Which syndicated reruns, USA Network?  The syndicated reruns on TNN had a bunch of things cut out, and Universal restored 99% of that.  It seems to me like Universal had the NBC reruns, missing the tiny number of things that NBC removed for 2nd and 3rd airings in the 1980s.

 

In all the syndicated reruns over the years, the USA network ones were probably still the most complete. But, for the syndicated versions Universal chose to use for the home video sets…I am not 100% positive, but I’m fairly certain they used the newest reruns at the time.

Those would have already been digitally remastered to an extent (Universal probably did a little more), easily readily available, and therefore cheaper than digging into the vaults & getting out original NBC airings to restore. Plus, Universal was probably already paying a butt-load to keep all the original music. These are the TV Land reruns (aired around 2004-2006).

I taped the TV Land reruns (still have them) before the show started to be released to DVD, and the versions seem to match.

Edited May 8 by ViceFanMan

[Paul Veres]

10 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I would love to make the original airing episodes available to everyone, but unfortunately, I would probably get myself into a lot of legal trouble if I did that  

Back around 2011/2012 I happened to come into contact with another MV fan that had literally taped every single episode as it originally aired. They also included all of the original commercial-bumpers, although the commercials themselves are cut out.

That person had those episodes transferred from the original VHS tapes to DVDs, and somehow I was blessed, or lucky enough to get them to make me a set as well. The episodes are not digitally remastered or in HD by any means…but the condition, colors, sound, picture quality, etc…for how old the episodes are is amazing! It’s pure, unaltered, unedited, original MV.

Yeah it's a shame we can't legally pass around those digital copies of the originally aired MV, given everybody on this forum already paid some money one way or another for this Universal property, and I'd personally pay also for the original TV footage in some official way if that was possible. 

[Paul Veres]

Here is my comparison of the Koch edition to... what I had before. The problem is I don't exactly know what I had before because I procured it in a usual well-known (to some) way, whereby you only know what you're told. It was some Blu-ray rip at 720p. The Koch I just ripped came out at 1080p. Remember sometimes these numbers don't mean much due to upscaling.

This is the first Crockett scene from the pilot, I haven't compared other episodes yet. To me the enhancement is obvious in these details of Crockett's eyes, hair, and skin tone.

Again, I don't know if the Blu-ray version I had before was Mill Creek etc and how much/if it was compressed or other ripping parameters. For me ripping one Koch disk (out of 35) took about an hour and the resulting file is about 23 Gb, at least this first disc with the pilot. My older pilot file was just 1.6 Gb so for this size difference it better be better  I expect the whole set to take about a Tb.

[Dadrian]

Looks great @Paul Veres!

Speaking of ripping: does anybody know of a device I could rip/load the Blu Rays into so that I don’t have to fool with changing the discs anymore? Something with a remote that I just plug into the TV. 

I don’t wanna hijack the thread. If you have a suggestion you can PM me. 

[Paul Veres]

5 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Looks great @Paul Veres!

Speaking of ripping: does anybody know of a device I could rip/load the Blu Rays into so that I don’t have to fool with changing the discs anymore? Something with a remote that I just plug into the TV. 

I don’t wanna hijack the thread. If you have a suggestion you can PM me. 

Well that's the reason I'm ripping them - so I don't have to ever handle the discs and can quickly access any episode through a PC folder structure, and to watch on big TV I just connect the laptop to the TV. So for my setup the devices are the external Blu-ray reader ($43) just once to rip, and my laptop, though I also use an external hard drive due to the size of the files. And a ripping app.

[Paul Veres]

15 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Something with a remote that I just plug into the TV.

The remote for me is then my computer mouse I can be on the couch with  

My "problem" is I usually watch it on PC (my laptop with external monitors at my desk) anyway because I have to go online numerous times for location stuff during it 

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Paul Veres said:

Here is my comparison of the Koch edition to... what I had before. The problem is I don't exactly know what I had before because I procured it in a usual well-known (to some) way, whereby you only know what you're told. It was some Blu-ray rip at 720p. The Koch I just ripped came out at 1080p. Remember sometimes these numbers don't mean much due to upscaling.

This is the first Crockett scene from the pilot, I haven't compared other episodes yet. To me the enhancement is obvious in these details of Crockett's eyes, hair, and skin tone.

Again, I don't know if the Blu-ray version I had before was Mill Creek etc and how much/if it was compressed or other ripping parameters. For me ripping one Koch disk (out of 35) took about an hour and the resulting file is about 23 Gb, at least this first disc with the pilot. My older pilot file was just 1.6 Gb so for this size difference it better be better  I expect the whole set to take about a Tb.

I’m not sure which one of your pics is from what, but the Elephant Films Blu-ray set is 1080p as well. I think Mill Creek’s & Fabulous Films’ sets are too…but, not positive.

The pic on the right has more vibrant color, but it also makes Crockett look “lobster-y” sunburnt (rather than tan).  Of course this appears to be a zoomed in close up.

Edited May 10 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

I also don’t really wanna watch the show on my computer screen, or my little cell phone, I wanna watch my nice big TV in my living room or my sunroom. But, that’s just me. 

[Dadrian]

6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I also don’t really wanna watch the show on my computer screen, or my little cell phone, I wanna watch my nice big TV in my living room or my sunroom. But, that’s just me. 

You can plug your computer into your TV if it has the proper input on the back. 

[Paul Veres]

14 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I also don’t really wanna watch the show on my computer screen, or my little cell phone, I wanna watch my nice big TV in my living room or my sunroom. But, that’s just me. 

I also certainly don't watch on my phone and I don't watch on my laptop - my external monitors are probably larger than the 80s TV anyway. But yeah, all modern TVs and laptops (unless small) have HDMI ports you can use to connect them.

[ViceFanMan]

4 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

You can plug your computer into your TV if it has the proper input on the back. 

I suppose I could…however, right now I can’t as my personal laptop died about 3 years ago, and I only have a work laptop, which has the ports blocked (which for a work one I understand).

But, to me, why bother with a whole ‘nother device & hooking more things up, if I already have a Blu-ray player ready to go? I’m also a collector, so I have lots of physical media from different companies & countries…so I have region free Blu-ray players.

Plus, if I am so inept and incompetent enough that I can’t get my rear end up off the couch and switch out a disc after 4 to 5 episodes/hours, I better call it quits and check into a full care nursing home, lol!  Just kidding. 

[Dadrian]

For me it would just be so convenient to have a dedicated “box” with the Koch Blu Rays data loaded into organized folders. I’d have to buy the set and the device though—very expensive.  

I really meant for all this the be via PM everyone. My apologies for hijacking the thread. 

[ViceFanMan]

13 minutes ago, Paul Veres said:

I also certainly don't watch on my phone and I don't watch on my laptop - my external monitors are probably larger than the 80s TV anyway. But yeah, all modern TVs and laptops (unless small) have HDMI ports you can use to connect them.

Some computer monitors are probably larger than some of the old 80s TVs, depending on what size the 80s TV was. But, my modern TVs are definitely larger than my laptop and/or computer ones!

I know that TVs now have ports (usually USB of some kind) on the back or sides where you can plug other things into. But, I already have a Blu-ray player plugged in, and after 4-5 episodes/hours of watching a show, I don’t mind having to get up and change a disc out real quick. It takes less than a minute. 

I can also connect my phone to my TV for YouTube, but I rarely do that. Most everything on YouTube that I would want to watch, I already own and most likely in better quality. 

Edited May 10 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

For me it would just be so convenient to have a dedicated “box” with the Koch Blu Rays data loaded into organized folders. I’d have to buy the set and the device though—very expensive.  

I really meant for all this the be via PM everyone. My apologies for hijacking the thread. 

You didn’t “hijack” the thread…it still ties in. It’s all good!