Miami Vice TV series on Blu-ray

[bodie]

41 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

After looking on various websites it states on 2 that it offers Dolby Digital. The DTS HD master audio on the back of the boxset cover is false information for this 2016 release (Fabulous Films) no wonder the sound on my bar is off, too sharp as I have it set on master audio and its Dolby.

Doesn't surpise me. They are a one man band and they made those errors with the video levels.

We've seen differences previously where the French set from Elephant has 24bit audio on the 5.1 remix and the original stereo and the German one from Koch uses 16bit for both.

They're all using the same source from Universal, but how they present it on disc technically is up to the publisher.

[Leigh Burne]

15 minutes ago, bodie said:

Yeah it's One Eyed Jack and then the ear clap in Golden Triangle. But as I say, the plus was a vastly superior print of Smuggler's Blues, and also single sided discs from the get-go and PAL vs. NTSC.

The ear clap is in “Golden Triangle”, that’s probably why that disc is rated 18 when the rest are 12 or 15

[Crockettt]

I have Fabulous Films release from 2016 and there is only DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1.
If you have Blu-Ray drive in your PC you can easily tweak the video levels  in MPC-HC (as @bodie suggested in one of the previous post) and the particular episodes would look like from Koch release.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Crockettt

[bodie]

2 minutes ago, Leigh Burne said:

The ear clap is in “Golden Triangle”, that’s probably why that disc is rated 18 when the rest are 12 or 15

That's the thing, they actually couldn't classify it with the animal cruelty or that imitable violence back then. It wasn't a case of higher rating - no rating covers it, hence the cuts, even with the maximum certificate on the set they put out. They were saying even at 18, for other reasons, we do not allow animal cruelty or imitable violence.

They have the same stance on animal cruelty now, if it is real, it cannot be classified. Imitable violence, they're not so stringent now.

[Leigh Burne]

1 minute ago, bodie said:

That's the thing, they actually couldn't classify it with the animal cruelty or that imitable violence back then. It wasn't a case of higher rating - no rating covers it, hence the cuts, even with the maximum certificate on the set they put out. They were saying even at 18, for other reasons, we do not allow animal cruelty or imitable violence.

I definitely remember seeing Castillo deliver the ear clap, but it has been a while since I last watched it!

[RedDragon86]

9 minutes ago, Crockettt said:

I have Fabulous Films release from 2016 and there is only DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1.
If you have Blu-Ray drive in your PC you can easily tweak the video levels  in MPC-HC (as @bodie suggested in one of the previous post) and the particular episodes would look like from Koch release.

What is the solution if you have a soundbar that is only Dolby Digital? for example what if I set the audio output on my blu ray player setting to dolby and not dts what would the sound offer?

Like would it convert to Dolby sound?

 

[bodie]

Just now, Leigh Burne said:

I definitely remember seeing Castillo deliver the ear clap, but it has been a while since I last watched it!

He may well do something and if you know what it is, then the brain can kick in - to say nothing of the memory. But that technique was a complete no-no for the BBFC back then, as there had been a scandal following a soft drink commercial which featured a man doing something essentially the same to random pedestrians to express the impact of the drink. School children then picked it up and of course it can cause severe injury (and potentially worse), so the commercial was banned, a new version featuring a random kiss was made, and any material featuring it could not get a UK rating certificate - meaning a cut, or no sale in the UK.

There used to be loads of this. The Turtles were called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles, not Ninja. And things like Enter the Dragon had to have whole scenes featuring nunchaku removed. Even Tomorrow Never Dies had to be cut to remove the use of ninja stars. It was all in the time of a child murder where the older children who did it said that videos of extreme material had been a factor in their actions.

[bodie]

5 minutes ago, Crockettt said:

I have Fabulous Films release from 2016 and there is only DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1.
If you have Blu-Ray drive in your PC you can easily tweak the video levels  in MPC-HC (as @bodie suggested in one of the previous post) and the particular episodes would look like from Koch release.

You can't magic the higher bitrate into lighter encodes, but yes you're quite right, most people's setups will be making more difference to the result than the technical differences between the different sets. You're doing really well if you can actually detect any difference between any of them, errors aside.

 

2 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

What is the solution if you have a soundbar that is only Dolby Digital? for example what if I set the audio output on my blu ray player setting to dolby and not dts what would the sound offer?

Like would it convert to Dolby sound?

 

Depends how your player is set. They all differ, but good ones can usually all be set to convert to the desired format. It's how people with only stereo speakers can play things with 7.1 Atmos mixes, they need folding down correctly. In your case you just want the 5.1 from one standard to another, should be a one option fix.

[Crockettt]

Yes you are right, I meant bad levels and restoring them in MPC-HC to look like from the Koch Films release.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Crockettt

[bodie]

1 minute ago, Crockettt said:

Yes you are right, I meant bad levels and restoring them ij MPC-HC to look like from the Koch Films release.

Well Koch not quite as they have actually done a different colour grade and higher bitrate. But Mill Creek or Elephant, yes - the unaltered source levels of those for sure

[Leigh Burne]

1 hour ago, bodie said:

He may well do something and if you know what it is, then the brain can kick in - to say nothing of the memory. But that technique was a complete no-no for the BBFC back then, as there had been a scandal following a soft drink commercial which featured a man doing something essentially the same to random pedestrians to express the impact of the drink.

The DVDs didn’t come out that long ago though. Back in the 80s and 90s the BBFC definitely had a campaign against stuff like ear claps and headbutts, but by the time Vice came out they’d really relaxed on that stuff - you mention Tomorrow Never Dies, and I remember that (and GoldenEye) coming out fully uncut on DVD a few years previous.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Leigh Burne

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, bodie said:

Well Koch not quite as they have actually done a different colour grade and higher bitrate. But Mill Creek or Elephant, yes - the unaltered source levels of those for sure

All this “technical” talk ...I’m glad you guys understand all that jargon, because I understand the words sound, color, and picture quality, lol!  But, I do understand the ‘results’ from the different sets.

Even if the digital quality is really good...I don’t really want altered or changed colors and/or color-grade. But, between even the Universal DVD sets, my “originals” DVDs, and the Mill Creek Blu-ray set, I feel I have the best colors, sound, and picture quality for MV...and am forever grateful, as not many shows have the number of different releases available that MV does!  

But, for whichever set satisfies whichever fan...to each his or her own!  

[Dadrian]

2 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

All this “technical” talk ...I’m glad you guys understand all that jargon, because I understand the words sound, color, and picture quality, lol!  But, I do understand the ‘results’ from the different sets.

You might want to also check the sattaforgis and the hantoon randoon. 

[ViceFanMan]

4 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

You might want to also check the sattaforgis and the hantoon randoon. 

Exactly!! I love that scene and line...it’s so “me” and what I’d say too, lol!! 

[RedDragon86]

I put the Dolby Digital setting on my blu ray player to suit my soundbar to watch "Phil the Shill" tonight and the sound was great, problem solved.

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by RedDragon86

[bodie]

6 hours ago, Leigh Burne said:

The DVDs didn’t come out that long ago though. Back in the 80s and 90s the BBFC definitely had a campaign against stuff like ear claps and headbutts, but by the time Vice came out they’d really relaxed on that stuff - you mention Tomorrow Never Dies, and I remember that (and GoldenEye) coming out fully uncut on DVD a few years previous.

Yes. Not so long ago the BBFC site was an invaluable resource where all these issues could be looked up. But they dumbed down their site majorly and it's now no use at all for this.

But never mind, DVD era stuff is no longer of primary concern, though it is of historical interest in terms of film and TV generally, as well as MV 

[bodie]

4 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

All this “technical” talk ...I’m glad you guys understand all that jargon, because I understand the words sound, color, and picture quality, lol!  But, I do understand the ‘results’ from the different sets.

Even if the digital quality is really good...I don’t really want altered or changed colors and/or color-grade. But, between even the Universal DVD sets, my “originals” DVDs, and the Mill Creek Blu-ray set, I feel I have the best colors, sound, and picture quality for MV...and am forever grateful, as not many shows have the number of different releases available that MV does!  

But, for whichever set satisfies whichever fan...to each his or her own!  

Amen! Whatever works 

And all I was meaning was that Koch has different presentation in all the ways we've already discussed here... I was trying not to say it all again, not be obscure. My bad 

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, bodie said:

Amen! Whatever works 

And all I was meaning was that Koch has different presentation in all the ways we've already discussed here... I was trying not to say it all again, not be obscure. My bad 

I know Koch has done the episodes differently...I’ve seen several pics of scenes, and read some reviews/thoughts on it. Some really like it, others have noticed what I have, with the bright-harsh, almost neon colors & lighting...some even mentioned it causes bizarre “greenish” skin tone in some scenes/episodes. My opinion...but none of that is MV to me. Either way, it’s not worth $200-$300!! But, to each his or her own!  

[bodie]

5 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I know Koch has done the episodes differently...I’ve seen several pics of scenes, and read some reviews/thoughts on it. Some really like it, others have noticed what I have, with the bright-harsh, almost neon colors & lighting...some even mentioned it causes bizarre “greenish” skin tone in some scenes/episodes. My opinion...but none of that is MV to me. Either way, it’s not worth $200-$300!! But, to each his or her own!  

Yes. One wonders if anyone spending that much on the series won't also have spent some money on it before, and so theirs basically being an alternative 

[Cassagrande.M]

It must be annoying that a very high quality box set for this American show is not officially available to the American market. I think there may be changes of opinion if it was available to our American counterparts. I know I would find it frustrating, like how there’s only a US region 1 release for the Miami Vice movie directors cut but no European release. 

For me the colours pop perfectly, I can see detail I have not seen before like Don’s grey beard in El Viejo. But this does come down to option and how you like to view things. 
We will probably never get this show on 4K so this is a very good substitute IMO. 

The boxset is pricey but you also have to take into account the highly detailed artwork and photos that come with it. It’s an investment no doubt. Also there is a very rare Michael Mann interview on the disc that I’ve not seen anywhere online where he goes deep into the beginnings of the show and talks in detail about Season 5. That was pretty much worth the cost of the boxset alone for me. 

 

[bodie]

1 hour ago, Cassagrande.M said:

It must be annoying that a very high quality box set for this American show is not officially available to the American market. I think there may be changes of opinion if it was available to our American counterparts. I know I would find it frustrating, like how there’s only a US region 1 release for the Miami Vice movie directors cut but no European release. 

For me the colours pop perfectly, I can see detail I have not seen before like Don’s grey beard in El Viejo. But this does come down to option and how you like to view things. 
We will probably never get this show on 4K so this is a very good substitute IMO. 

The boxset is pricey but you also have to take into account the highly detailed artwork and photos that come with it. It’s an investment no doubt. Also there is a very rare Michael Mann interview on the disc that I’ve not seen anywhere online where he goes deep into the beginnings of the show and talks in detail about Season 5. That was pretty much worth the cost of the boxset alone for me. 

 

Yeah you tend to find that these things were factors in people importing discs. Your MV Director's Edition example is a good one and as it's a region free disc, there was absolutely no reason for fans outside the US not getting it sent to them... I know I did.

However, where there are different video standards (yes, still in the HD age) and region locking, it becomes more of a problem for people to import unless they invest in devices to ensure playback of things from outside their own market.

Yes, value is where you find it. And Koch in Germany know there are fans who only had German versions on DVD that were cut and terrible quality. So they invested in their product and it has sold out - job done for them.

Who knows about 4K. Part of me thinks never in a million years. But then, equally, they could do it and find it sells really well at a high price point. I've no idea, it's just a hunch that having sold for $50 in HD, that's kind of the precident now. But I'd love to see that tested.

If Koch can sell these masters at a higher price point, and Elephant in France too - that shows there are people out there. And let's not forget the UK at a much higher price than the US and with problems, but yet still, people put their money down.

Is everyone all done if it comes out again in 4K? Who knows

What I do recall is that there was some incorrect PR for the Koch set which said it was being done in regular HD from new 4K masters and people did take notice. So go one better and deliver that and on the newer format... maybe Koch would actually consider that as a next move?

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, Cassagrande.M said:

It must be annoying that a very high quality box set for this American show is not officially available to the American market. I think there may be changes of opinion if it was available to our American counterparts. I know I would find it frustrating, like how there’s only a US region 1 release for the Miami Vice movie directors cut but no European release. 

For me the colours pop perfectly, I can see detail I have not seen before like Don’s grey beard in El Viejo. But this does come down to option and how you like to view things. 
We will probably never get this show on 4K so this is a very good substitute IMO. 

The boxset is pricey but you also have to take into account the highly detailed artwork and photos that come with it. It’s an investment no doubt. Also there is a very rare Michael Mann interview on the disc that I’ve not seen anywhere online where he goes deep into the beginnings of the show and talks in detail about Season 5. That was pretty much worth the cost of the boxset alone for me. 

 

If you get a region free Blu-ray player (and they’re not that much more expensive than the regular ones) you can get any of the sets wherever you’re at. I have one, as a while back I got the German set of Hunter...as it still had the original music for the episodes, whereas sadly the U.S. set changed the music out for cheaper/unknown songs. The German set of Hunter was not that expensive either.

I’m sure the Koch set of MV has done a lot of work with the colors and the box artwork. But, from what I’ve seen and some of what I’ve read, the colors are almost altered or changed...even though they “pop”, they’re too bright, too harsh & neon for what MV was/is. It’s almost like Koch created their own color-scheme for the episodes. And regardless of the artwork for the box, or an interview with Mann (which would be cool to see) it’s still too insanely priced! But, again, some may like the different colors & lighting...so my opinion.  

The true sad thing is, ALL the sets/episodes from whatever company or country are all the same U.S. syndicated (aka cut & edited) versions created for reruns. I know Koch claims they have uncut episodes...but that’s for the German audience, as I guess they’ve not had the same syndicated versions the U.S. did before...but for us in the U.S., it’s the same episodes/versions we’ve always had.  

There supposedly are no original uncut/unedited NBC airing masters anymore...so unless you’re lucky enough to have recorded the episodes back in the-day, or know someone who did, there are no “true” or original episodes available. You have to decide what home video set is best for you & go with it.  

Edited July 24, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Glades]

6 hours ago, Cassagrande.M said:

Also there is a very rare Michael Mann interview on the disc that I’ve not seen anywhere online where he goes deep into the beginnings of the show and talks in detail about Season 5. That was pretty much worth the cost of the boxset alone for me. 

I agree with you! I learned a lot from these two interviews about MV and Michael Mann. That´s why I transcripted them.

Here are the links:

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Glades

[ViceFanMan]

9 minutes ago, Glades said:

I agree with you. I learned a lot from the two interviews about MV and Michael Mann. That´s why I transcripted them. Here are the links:

 

Thanks for the interviews...I’ll have to read them soon! 

[SwissTubbs]

Am 22.7.2021 um 01:10 schrieb ViceFanMan:

The Koch set has got to be WAY less before it’s worth getting yet another set of the episodes ...plus the colors/lighting look way too bright and neon. 

 

Koch used the same Masters as Mill Creek.
But Mill Creek presented them wrong. They were too washed out color-wise and the encoding is problematic.
Mill Creek is a budget company and it shows with their TV Releases.

Off course for 50 Bucks you cant go wrong. And its still miles better then DVD.
But Mill Creek didnt do anything with the masters they got.

Koch did everything they could with the dated Masters. Koch ist not a standard company. They do a lot of restoration work with Companys like LSP Medien. They just did for example the 4K Restoration of the 1984 Dune Movie. Same Restoration also used on the Arrow UK Disc.
They know something about film

Of Course you can still dislike personally the results on Miami Vice. But i dont see colors/lighting too bright and neon.
And Koch also repaired a lot of the English Audio Problems (for example the missing line in sons and lovers)

Here are some comparisons i did between Koch and Mill Creek:

Cool Runnin: https://slow.pics/c/1eOp19Ho

As you can see the mill creek is brighter here.

The Great McCarthy: https://slow.pics/c/r3ZMj0Da

Here you can also see the much better compression of the Koch. Grain is better resolved and no artifacts.
Also the Mill Creek is just too bright.

Out where the buses dont run: https://slow.pics/c/G2L3ghkz

Same here.

But also you also can see: On most episodes the differences in Color are not that big because those are the same masters.
Koch just encoded them much better and with the correct black levels. Or you also can say: Koch did care and Mill Creek just put them on Disc

But there are some Episodes with bigger differences because Koch corrected faults in the master:

Baby Blues: https://slow.pics/c/DZ1xqrIj

The unaltered Master used by Mill Creek (and as always poorly compressed by them) and others looks heavily washed out and has for me nothing to do with Miami Vice. Koch did remaster it and the colors and balance is much better now.

Vote of Confidence: https://slow.pics/c/6e8xt1fz

The unaltered Master as presented on Mill Creek (and of course all the others like Elephant Films and Faboulus) is just nasty here. Completely Lifeless and dull.
The Koch remastering gave it the color back! Picture 4 with the Blue Color is also striking or the last one with our vice girls.

There would be more examples of this.
For me its not fair to say colors are wrong on the koch set. They clearly presented the best versions of those old masters.
But of course personally you have every right to not like it. I dont understand it but i dont have to. Everybody can have their own oppinion of course. Cheers!