Miami Vice TV series on Blu-ray

[fakespyder]

I taped all the episodes on my trusty old betamax back in the day. They served me well for a long time. But-

I'll take the Blu Ray versions thank you very much. On a good tv (properly calibrated), with a proper sound setup...that's all I need.

I can live with a few scenes clipped or a couple instances of missing dialog. I can definitely live with altered logos (especially as I never would have known).

No disrespect to opposing views.

[ViceFanMan]

52 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

I taped all the episodes on my trusty old betamax back in the day. They served me well for a long time. But-

I'll take the Blu Ray versions thank you very much. On a good tv (properly calibrated), with a proper sound setup...that's all I need.

I can live with a few scenes clipped or a couple instances of missing dialog. I can definitely live with altered logos (especially as I never would have known).

No disrespect to opposing views.

Awesome...everyone should be able to like or watch whichever version they want, whether Betamax, VHS, DVD or Blu-Ray (the original airings I have, have been put on DVDs...I’m not still popping in VHS tapes, but whatever works )!  

I’m sure the Blu-Ray sets have the best digitally redone qualities, I’m just specific on exactly what I’m getting when spending the kind of money the Blu-Ray sets cost...especially the Koch one.  I might eventually get that set, if the cost goes down over time. 

[James]

10 hours ago, fakespyder said:

I taped all the episodes on my trusty old betamax back in the day. They served me well for a long time. But-

I'll take the Blu Ray versions thank you very much. On a good tv (properly calibrated), with a proper sound setup...that's all I need.

I can live with a few scenes clipped or a couple instances of missing dialog. I can definitely live with altered logos (especially as I never would have known).

No disrespect to opposing views.

Betamax would be a treasure for a millennial like me who never experienced the original airing. I'd probably prefer that every once in a while and on a CRT screen for nostialgic aesthetic reasons. But Bluray is great for the cinematic experience.  

[Leigh Burne]

18 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

However, for the U.S. to me it’s still the same edited/altered versions the cable networks created when the show first went into reruns (and what all the previous U.S. DVD & Blu-Ray releases have used)...they’re not actual original unedited/uncut episodes NBC aired. 

To be honest, part of me wonders whether the original uncut footage you're talking about (stuff like the longer love-making scene in "By Hooker, by Crook") even exists any more.

Back when Vice was made, there was no incentive for the studio to keep deleted stuff because home video didn't really exist, let alone DVD or Blu-ray with hours of storage space for extras. The only time people ever saw shows again was in reruns, for which these cuts were made. I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff they removed got binned when they made the alterations.

Yes, it would be fantastic if Universal could locate the original masters, reinstate anything cut since the original broadcast, clean them up, properly colour-grade them so they actually match the original image and maybe even add whatever other footage they can find as deleted scenes, but all that is terribly expensive and time-consuming. The profit just isn't in it for them.

Frankly I'm just glad they went to the trouble of paying for the music rights, because I know that was a big hurdle in getting the show to DVD.

15 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

The “Calderone’s Return” Pts. 1&2, and “The Golden Triangle” Pts. 1&2  were also done for syndication...as they were originally titled “Hit List” & “Calderone’s Demise”, and “Score” & “Golden Triangle”. I have no idea why the titles were changed, but all of this was done for syndication.

That one's rather obvious - they were changed to make it clear they were two-part stories, so you didn't get people tuning in to "Golden Triangle" part 2 and wondering what the hell was going on.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Leigh Burne

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Leigh Burne:

To be honest, part of me wonders whether the original uncut footage you're talking about (stuff like the longer love-making scene in "By Hooker, by Crook") even exists any more.

That issue has a clear answer I have described in my episode guide which is "no".

NBC urged cuts AFTER the first airing (and maintaining that the producers did not cut the love scene as agreed) and Dick Wolf denied to cut it at that point and said they cut it as wanted but he will not edit it again just because NBC changed their mind after some apparent viewer interventions. Bottom line: the full (2:37 if I remember correctly) scene was only shown once. If you did not tape it back then at the first airing you will never be able to see it as, NBC cut it and it is therefore not on any master that was used afterwards for DVDs or BluRays. But there is an old airing from Italy(!) in the 80s on YouTube where the full scene is included. I never found out how that worked as Italy could not get the original airing tape.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Tom

[ViceFanMan]

6 hours ago, Leigh Burne said:

To be honest, part of me wonders whether the original uncut footage you're talking about (stuff like the longer love-making scene in "By Hooker, by Crook") even exists any more.

Back when Vice was made, there was no incentive for the studio to keep deleted stuff because home video didn't really exist, let alone DVD or Blu-ray with hours of storage space for extras. The only time people ever saw shows again was in reruns, for which these cuts were made. I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff they removed got binned when they made the alterations.

Yes, it would be fantastic if Universal could locate the original masters, reinstate anything cut since the original broadcast, clean them up, properly colour-grade them so they actually match the original image and maybe even add whatever other footage they can find as deleted scenes, but all that is terribly expensive and time-consuming. The profit just isn't in it for them.

Frankly I'm just glad they went to the trouble of paying for the music rights, because I know that was a big hurdle in getting the show to DVD.

That one's rather obvious - they were changed to make it clear they were two-part stories, so you didn't get people tuning in to "Golden Triangle" part 2 and wondering what the hell was going on.

 

4 hours ago, Tom said:

That issue has a clear answer I have described in my episode guide which is "no".

NBC urged cuts AFTER the first airing (and maintaining that the producers did not cut the love scene as agreed) and Dick Wolf denied to cut it at that point and said they cut it as wanted but he will not edit it again just because NBC changed their mind after some apparent viewer interventions. Bottom line: the full (2:37 if I remember correctly) scene was only shown once. If you did not tape it back then at the first airing you will never be able to see it as, NBC cut it and it is therefore not on any master that was used afterwards for DVDs or BluRays. But there is an old airing from Italy(!) in the 80s on YouTube where the full scene is included. I never found out how that worked as Italy could not get the original airing tape.

 

All good info and explanations why only the cuts & syndicated versions are sadly the only versions available for home video (just my thoughts/opinions...advertising a set has unedited/uncut episodes, however, makes it sound like it has original airings...so even if legally somehow that can be claimed, it probably should be worded differently ). 

Yes, the love scene in “Hooker by Crook” was cut...and unless you have the original NBC airing you probably won’t ever get to see it in full—not that we “need” to, but it was cut from the original version. 

True, I guess the syndicated people assumed we were so stupid we wouldn’t  know or remember that certain episodes were 2-parters with different titles, so they changed the titles to match each other as well as some editing was done. 

 Including all of the original music and making sure that was all included was very awesome, and I’m glad that that was done from the beginning, as changing the music would have ruined any home video versions!  

The Blu-Ray sets sound like for digital remastering purposes, they’re pretty cool.  However, at this point for myself personally I’m not really willing to spend that kind of money, when it’s still the same syndicated versions that have always been released to home video.  But, later on if the prices drop I might look into getting the Koch one. 

But, for now I’m grateful and satisfied with what I got.  

[Leigh Burne]

25 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

True, I guess the syndicated people assumed we were so stupid we wouldn’t  know or remember that certain episodes were 2-parters with different titles, so they changed the titles to match each other as well as some editing was done. 

It's got nothing to do with assumptions of stupidity. The network just knows that some of the people tuning in to reruns probably aren't ardent fans of the show who've seen every episode and know everything about the series. Putting (Part I) and (Part II) in the title immediately tells those casual viewers what's what.

TV was different back then. Over-arching plots that spanned multiple episodes weren't a thing like they are now. Miami Vice dabbled in it, especially in the first and last seasons, but really it was Mann's next series Crime Story that really popularised the idea of stories spread out across multiple episodes.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Leigh Burne

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Leigh Burne said:

It's got nothing to do with assumptions of stupidity. The network just knows that some of the people tuning in to reruns probably aren't ardent fans of the show who've seen every episode and know everything about the series. Putting (Part I) and (Part II) in the title immediately tells those casual viewers what's what.

True...I was being more sarcastic than literal.  However, even so...watching the episode, regardless of the title, should explain everything for anyone who hadn’t seen it before. So, going to the trouble of editing & changing episode titles to make it more “explainable” seemed kind of pointless to me. But, that’s just my opinion.  

[ViceFanMan]

24 minutes ago, Leigh Burne said:

TV was different back then. Over-arching plots that spanned multiple episodes weren't a thing like they are now. Miami Vice dabbled in it, especially in the first and last seasons, but really it was Mann's next series Crime Story that really popularised the idea of stories spread out across multiple episodes.

Crime Story was awesome, too...wish it could’ve gone longer!  Actually Dallas was the first prime time show to really start continuing & extending out storylines into multiple episodes. Not a crime show, but still kind of introduced the idea. It also first introduced the idea of a cliffhanger to end a season...with the famous “Who shot J.R.?” 

Magnum, p.i. also had some 2-parters. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Ferrariman]

19 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Agreed!! Back then there was only like 3-4 commercials, instead of like 10 today 

Back in the day when I would record Vice I would actually cut the commercials while I watched the show. It was easy because every single break had exactly 4 commercials!   

I've told this story numerous times but it's worth repeating.  Dadrian will remember it. 

 You could never get me out of the house on Friday nights but in 1984 my 30th birthday fell on December 7th, a Friday night.  My wife had planned a surprise party for me but I refused to leave the house.  She eventually had to ruin the surprise to get me to go.  The episode was "Give A Little, Take A Little" and it remains the only episode I recorded that has commercials in it!  

[Leigh Burne]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

Crime Story was awesome, too...wish it could’ve gone longer!

I've only seen it once, but I remember the first season being really good (albeit slightly hampered by the fact they were experimenting with a new format - there's that weird episode towards the end that's literally just a recap clip show recounting the season so far. It kills the pacing when you're watching on DVD like I was!

The second season I was really disappointed by. I recall it being seriously hit and miss - some of the episodes were great, but many more were just rubbish or pointless. And then it ended with a (kinda dumb) unresolved cliffhanger. But it's been ages since I watched it, so maybe my memory's just fuzzy.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Leigh Burne

[ViceFanMan]

24 minutes ago, Leigh Burne said:

I've only seen it once, but I remember the first season being really good (albeit slightly hampered by the fact they were experimenting with a new format - there's that weird episode towards the end that's literally just a recap clip show recounting the season so far. It kills the pacing when you're watching on DVD like I was!

The second season I was really disappointed by. I recall it being seriously hit and miss - some of the episodes were great, but many more were just rubbish or pointless. And then it ended with a (kinda dumb) unresolved cliffhanger. But it's been ages since I watched it, so maybe my memory's just fuzzy.

Yeah, I only watched it when it originally aired, and I didn’t even see every single episode at that time. I do remember that it sort of ended on a cliffhanger, which probably meant they were hoping it would get renewed for another season and then it would’ve been resolved. I loved the past/vintage time period idea.  

[ViceFanMan]

40 minutes ago, Ferrariman said:

Back in the day when I would record Vice I would actually cut the commercials while I watched the show. It was easy because every single break had exactly 4 commercials!   

I've told this story numerous times but it's worth repeating.  Dadrian will remember it. 

 You could never get me out of the house on Friday nights but in 1984 my 30th birthday fell on December 7th, a Friday night.  My wife had planned a surprise party for me but I refused to leave the house.  She eventually had to ruin the surprise to get me to go.  The episode was "Give A Little, Take A Little" and it remains the only episode I recorded that has commercials in it!  

Lol...I remember this story...but still funny!  I remember spending almost every Friday night at my best friends house, as they watched MV regularly. So originally, I actually saw & remember more of the first 2 seasons when I was younger, than the later seasons when I was a few years older (Seasons 4-5 were pretty hit-n-miss originally for me.)

I remember pausing the VCR recording during commercials...we did that a lot if we were home. But, you learned to let it go a few seconds into the commercial before pausing, as the tape would back up a tiny bit...and you’d end up cutting off the last little bit of the previous scene, lol!  Ahh...the good ol’ days of TV & home video.  

[Glades]

4 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

advertising a set has unedited/uncut episodes, however, makes it sound like it has original airings

The term "uncut" definitely has to be seen in the context of the German-speaking market.

For us, the sydicated version of an episode is already on average 3 to 5 minutes longer than the version originally broadcast in German-speaking countries! So that's way better and in relation to the US version in a way "uncut".
As Tom already explained, this had nothing to do with censorship, but the broadcasting slot was simply not long enough. And so it was shortened with no mercy. By the way, many other shows have suffered the same fate.

I have seen this cut German version exactly once, since then only "uncut". There is so much missing! I think it's great that the longer version is now also available in German, although German subtitles would be enough for me personally. I watch in English, but sometimes I do not understand everything and subtitles help me a lot.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Glades

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, Glades said:

The term "uncut" definitely has to be seen in the context of the German-speaking market.

For us, the sydicated version of an episode is already on average 3 to 5 minutes longer than the version originally broadcast in German-speaking countries! So that's way better and in relation to the US version in a way "uncut".
As Tom already explained, this had nothing to do with censorship, but the broadcasting slot was simply not long enough. And so it was shortened with no mercy. By the way, many other shows have suffered the same fate.

I have seen this cut German version exactly once, since then only "uncut". There is so much missing! I think it's great that the longer version is now also available in German, although German subtitles would be enough for me personally. I watch in English, but sometimes I do not understand everything and subtitles help me a lot.

 

This is true, and Leigh Burne also previously mentioned this concept...that it was most likely referring to German versions. I get that...it just comes across to me as saying one thing when it’s really another. For us, it’s the same edited versions, but for Germany it’s more complete versions than they’ve previously had. I’m happy for them, and glad the set has gotten the digital remastering treatment it has.  

You are correct...other famous shows have also just had the syndicated reruns used for DVD or Blu-Ray releases (Charlie’s Angels is one example). Most likely for the same reasons...that original network airings sadly may not exist anymore.  

Edited April 1, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Ferrariman]

1 hour ago, Glades said:

For us, the sydicated version of an episode is already on average 3 to 5 minutes longer than the version originally broadcast in German-speaking countries! So that's way better and in relation to the US version in a way "uncut".

Just the opposite in the U.S.   Syndicated versions usually lose a few minutes because they add commercials!

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, Ferrariman said:

Just the opposite in the U.S.   Syndicated versions usually lose a few minutes because they add commercials!

Exactly...and sometimes different networks will edit & cut differently for “their” commercials...so over time the episodes get really “butchered”. 

[IA-SteveB]

Anything you watch on PlutoTV (a free streaming app) is really butchered to allow for more commercials.  The other thing I don't like is that if they have a dedicated channel for a series, they only show a selection of episodes over and over.  I swear for the Family Ties channel, they have like 24 episodes from the entire series because the same ones are on every day.

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, IA-SteveB said:

Anything you watch on PlutoTV (a free streaming app) is really butchered to allow for more commercials.  The other thing I don't like is that if they have a dedicated channel for a series, they only show a selection of episodes over and over.  I swear for the Family Ties channel, they have like 24 episodes from the entire series because the same ones are on every day.

Yikes...doesn’t sound too cool! 

[fakespyder]

Also worth noting that different countries censored different things. As I've mentioned in the episode thread "Viking bikers" I didn't know for years that Sonny had shot Reb in the stomach 3 times. All we saw in the original network airing was Reb throw them both overboard.

Censors, especially back then, suck.

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, fakespyder said:

Also worth noting that different countries censored different things. As I've mentioned in the episode thread "Viking bikers" I didn't know for years that Sonny had shot Reb in the stomach 3 times. All we saw in the original network airing was Reb throw them both overboard.

Censors, especially back then, suck.

True...I’m in the U.S. & sometimes I forget different countries edit or censor things differently than we do. What might be considered edited/cut/altered for the U.S. (basically our syndicated rerun versions), might be considered the most “complete” versions for other countries.  

[ivoryjones]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:19 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Hey, @ivoryjones!  Long time, no talk! From what I have read & seen, the Koch set is probably the most up to date in regards to digitally remastering. However, I question their claim of original, uncut/unedited episodes...as I found their intro on YouTube, and they also use the “fake” purple & green logo.  So, that tells me they too used syndicated rerun versions for the episodes, like all the other DVD & Blu-Ray sets have. 

If they had used the original, real logos I might consider getting this set. But, with the fake logo & most likely the syndicated versions used (I have the DVD sets for that), I’m not willing to pay the large price, even if the digitally remastering is probably the most up to date so far. 

Digitally remastered or not...nothing beats original, uncut/unedited airings with the real logos! I still feel forever grateful & blessed to have those!  

Hey, @ViceFanMan! So nice to be back and see you here!

I know many will not think this way, but once those logos look all pretty much the same no matter what BD release we're talking about, I am good with just one BD set, whatever it is (I have Mill Creek with all the replacements).

With no hesitation, I would have the worst BD set -- in terms of technical quality -- and pay higher price for it if it vaguely brought back the original logos look and also the way the scenes once looked. It would also bring tears to my eyes to finally watch Miami Vice again with decent, colder white tones, not those pinkish white ones one gets everywhere.

The day I see one BD release that has the last night scene of "Duty and Honor" (to give just an example) and the logos looking vaguely right, I'll be glad to empty my pockets on it!

[RedDragon86]

On 3/31/2021 at 4:05 PM, ViceFanMan said:

This sounds cool...but if they went with the original Universal masters, why in the world did they use the fake logo?? 

Wasn't it down to the production team changing the color of the logo for the start of the new era?

s1&2 logo

s3,4,& 5

 

[ViceFanMan]

15 minutes ago, ivoryjones said:

Hey, @ViceFanMan! So nice to be back and see you here!

I know many will not think this way, but once those logos look all pretty much the same no matter what BD release we're talking about, I am good with just one BD set, whatever it is (I have Mill Creek with all the replacements).

With no hesitation, I would have the worst BD set -- in terms of technical quality -- and pay higher price for it if it vaguely brought back the original logos look and also the way the scenes once looked. It would also bring tears to my eyes to finally watch Miami Vice again with decent, colder white tones, not those pinkish white ones one gets everywhere.

The day I see one BD release that has the last night scene of "Duty and Honor" (to give just an example) and the logos looking vaguely right, I'll be glad to empty my pockets on it!

Great to hear from you!  Totally agree 100% with everything you said!! If they were able to find & use original network airings—that were complete, uncut/unedited, with original logos & colors/lighting, and release that to a DVD/Blu-Ray set...I would be happy to pay the price for it—while bawling out of happiness!  

But, sadly the only copies it seems that are available to use for any home video outlet (Universal, Mill Creek, Koch, etc...) are the edited, syndicated versions.  And the continuous different ways of ‘digitally remastering’ it all seems to make the colors & tones more “vibrant” and “neon-ish”, rather that the lighter pastels & as you said “colder white tones” that Mann wanted & had on the show when it originally aired. It was to be sort of a modern (or neo) noir, and the original way the show was aired on NBC totally envisioned that! 

I’m unbelievably blessed & will forever be grateful to have original airings (that are pretty darn awesome quality)! Those, and for now my Universal DVD sets, are good enough for me! 

[ViceFanMan]

35 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Wasn't it down to the production team changing the color of the logo for the start of the new era?

s1&2 logo

s3,4,& 5

 

The first logo is an altered version of one used during Season 1...not Season 2. 

 The bottom logo is the fake one, that was never used in the original airing of the show for any season! It was created later for the syndicated reruns for reasons that I still do not know why? 

Edited April 18, 2021 by ViceFanMan