Miami Vice TV series on Blu-ray

[Ferrariman]

I would have to check my video tapes but I'm more than pretty sure that bottom purple and green logo was used during the darker season 3 episodes. 

The expert on this would be ivoryjones    check with him.

[ViceFanMan]

@RedDragon86Here are the two different logos from Season 1:

Edited April 18, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

19 minutes ago, Ferrariman said:

I would have to check my video tapes but I'm more than pretty sure that bottom purple and green logo was used during the darker season 3 episodes. 

The expert on this would be ivoryjones    check with him.

ivoryjones is the expert , but no...the purple & green logo was never used in the show. It was created later for the reruns, for Seasons 3-5. Still don’t know why? 

Edited April 18, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

@RedDragon86Here is the logo from Season 2:

Edited April 18, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

@RedDragon86Here are the logos from Seasons 3-5 (different variations of the “ghosting” around the text sometimes were used...but the colors were the same, for each season):

Edited April 18, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

Oh now I see what you mean about it being fake.

 

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, RedDragon86 said:

Oh now I see what you mean about it being fake.

 

Yeah...I still don’t know why a whole different/fake colored logo was created for the reruns, and it was for Seasons 3-5...1-2 still had the correct logos?? 

Sorry about the poor quality pics of the real logos above (but they got the point across)...I had to take pictures off my MV file with my cell phone, and it’s camera isn’t as “smart” as it thinks it is.  

[ivoryjones]

I'm checking shades of colors out right now. Apparently, purple is wider than I'd ever imagine. I am a little lost here, because according to this link purple includes purple itself and magenta, but it gets confusing because magenta is also a shade of pink (this link)!

After checking again images from NBC's 110 plus USA's TMTL (1990, cable), I'd say blue logos (top) are a lot more common than green (except on Season 2), and pink logos (bottom) are immensely more common than purple.

I believe @Ferrariman is correct, that is exactly it. I could find only one season that'd have them both together, on the same ep logo, and that is Season 3!

I can see 4 episodes that have green and purple together on S3, they are Killshot, Walk-alone, Shadow in the Dark and El Viejo. El Viejo is number one (they all are very close on pink, but when it comes to green EV is the best).

I don't seem to find this combination elsewhere. One place on the org in which all members can check them all for themselves is from here on.

Anyway, no matter what color name is in use, the DVDs and the Blu-Rays are far from the original look. As we all know, there are many shades of a color, so even when NBC and Mill Creek (for instance) do match in color name, shades comparison show Miami Vice in digital is a joke. It seems that's only about the logos, but that is not the case, the logos deviations tend to show (in a more obvious way) what is happening during the whole ep. It's even hard to get a white wall that has not become somewhat reddish on the DVDs/HDs.

I'll post below the 4 eps on NBC and Mill Creek. Keep in mind that differences are even worse regarding other eps from Seasons 3-5 (no purple originally).

Killshot

 

Walk-Alone

 

Shadow in the Dark

 

El Viejo

I can see it all better if I save the images on my computer and open then fullscreen.

There's an additional issue here. You all might notice that on the NBCs, the "I" of Vice show two different shades. That's an analog issue called "color bleeding" very common on VHS. If I did my homework right, we should consider the portion on the right side of the "I".

@ViceFanMan, to my eyes, after checking purple shades, I'd now say those four eps would qualify as green-purple, and I am sure I must have said something different than that previously. But I believe images above show just the same that the BDs logos have nothing to do with NBC's logo patterns anyway.

Edited April 19, 2021 by ivoryjones

[ViceFanMan]

15 minutes ago, ivoryjones said:

I'm checking shades of colors out right now. Apparently, purple is wider than I'd ever imagine. I am a little lost here, because according to this link purple includes purple itself and magenta, but it gets confusing because magenta is also a shade of pink (this link)!

After checking again images from NBC's 110 plus USA's TMTL (1990, cable), I'd say blue logos (top) are a lot more common than green (except on Season 2), and pink logos (bottom) are immensely more common than purple.

I believe @Ferrariman is correct, that is exactly it. I could find only one season that'd have them both together, on the same ep logo, and that is Season 3!

I can see 4 episodes that have green and purple together on S3, they are Killshot, Walk-alone, Shadow in the Dark and El Viejo. El Viejo is number one (they all are very close on pink, but when it comes to green EV is the best).

I don't seem to find this combination elsewhere. One place on the org in which all members can check them all for themselves is from here on.

Anyway, no matter what color name is in use, the DVDs and the Blu-Rays are far from the original look. As we all know, there are many shades of a color, so even when NBC and Mill Creek (for instance) do match in color name, shades comparison show Miami Vice in digital is a joke. It seems that's only about the logos, but that is not the case, the logos deviations tend to show (in a more obvious way) what is happening during the whole ep. It's even hard to get a white wall that has not become somewhat reddish on the DVDs/HDs.

I'll post below the 4 eps on NBC and Mill Creek. Keep in mind that differences are even worse regarding other eps from Seasons 3-5 (no purple originally).

Killshot

 

Walk-Alone

 

Shadow in the Dark

 

El Viejo

I can see it all better if I save the images on my computer and open then fullscreen.

There's an additional issue here. You all might notice that on the NBCs, the "I" of Vice show two different shades. That's an analog issue called "color bleeding" very common on VHS. If I did my homework right, we should consider the portion on the right side of the "I".

@ViceFanMan, to my eyes, after checking purple shades, I'd now say those four eps would qualify as green-purple, and I am sure I must have said something different than that previously. But I believe images above show just the same that the BDs logos have nothing to do with NBC's logo patterns anyway.

Interesting info...but the original logos you posted above are still more of the blues & pinks, just looking somewhat faded off an old VHS...not actual green & purple. The comparisons don’t really match or coincide. As you know, I have the original airings...and none are purple or green. I’m sorry, but the “garish” neon-like purple and green logo was never used in the original airings. It was created later for the reruns. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

@ivoryjonesNow, granted maybe some of the logos were faded off the original masters from universal when USA wanted to air reruns . So they went in and tried to “restore” or clean them up so to speak. But, why would they make them purple and green? Why would they not go in and clean it up with the original teal and pink? It just doesn’t make sense.

Edited April 19, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

@ivoryjonesWould there have been some strange legal reason the logo colors were changed for the last few seasons of the reruns??

[Crockettt]

It looks like Miami Vice logo was re-created for the DVD and the Blu-Ray release and that's why it looks different comparing to the original broadcast and reruns. They did the same with first season of MacGyver on Blu-Ray.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Crockettt

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Crockettt said:

It looks like Miami Vice logo was re-created for the DVDs and the Blu-Rays release and that's why it looks different comparing to the original broadcast. They did the same with first season of MacGyver on Blu-Ray.

I agree, except I think they re-created it for the reruns...which were subsequently used for the DVD & Blu-Ray sets.

[ivoryjones]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

@ivoryjonesNow, granted maybe some of the logos were faded off the original masters from universal when USA wanted to air reruns . So they went in and tried to “restore” or clean them up so to speak. But, why would they make them purple and green? Why would they not go in and clean it up with the original teal and pink? It just doesn’t make sense.

 

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

@ivoryjonesWould there have been some strange legal reason the logo colors were changed for the last few seasons of the reruns??

@ViceFanManI could never understand whatever happened to Miami Vice over the years. I wonder if the prints were transferred too many times, were not stored correctly, maybe because even back in the 80s/90s still no genius could ever imagine we would still be (so gladly) talking about Miami Vice in 2021!

I have the impression MV's got worse on new transfers as time passed. I remember seeing late late reruns on the 90s that looked already faded. On Columbia House tapes, definitely something was clearly wrong, but maybe in the middle of the way. One could see on CH tapes a Hit List looking too faded, and later season logos were not so green and not so purple as the DVDs and BDs would look decades later, but already weird enough. 

I am not sure if one can tell this happens in all cases, but many times I was able to see that whatever was wrong with the logo also affected some ep scenes. I think the most obvious case is Duty and Honor. Logo looking bad, night scene on Espinosa's house looking awful (someone from the org once said something like "70s cop movie look", that says it all!). I remember now also When Irish Eyes Were Crying, on the first scene after the opening, there is a take in which C&T are close to a wall and a window (OCB). The daylight passing through the window was once a clean white, very strong. On DVD and HD it looked too warm, reddish and faded. A few months ago I was trying to emulate the original look of "Line of Fire" on that scene in which Crockett, Tubbs and Marty discuss outside the Hotel what would be the next step. Well, I could see it was all wrong!

I also guess some stuff appears more on Seasons 3-5 because on those Seasons someone apparently decided that MV would be extremely bold when it came to colors and photography. 

 

[ViceFanMan]

On 4/19/2021 at 3:48 PM, ivoryjones said:

 

@ViceFanManI could never understand whatever happened to Miami Vice over the years. I wonder if the prints were transferred too many times, were not stored correctly, maybe because even back in the 80s/90s still no genius could ever imagine we would still be (so gladly) talking about Miami Vice in 2021!

I have the impression MV's got worse on new transfers as time passed. I remember seeing late late reruns on the 90s that looked already faded. On Columbia House tapes, definitely something was clearly wrong, but maybe in the middle of the way. One could see on CH tapes a Hit List looking too faded, and later season logos were not so green and not so purple as the DVDs and BDs would look decades later, but already weird enough. 

I am not sure if one can tell this happens in all cases, but many times I was able to see that whatever was wrong with the logo also affected some ep scenes. I think the most obvious case is Duty and Honor. Logo looking bad, night scene on Espinosa's house looking awful (someone from the org once said something like "70s cop movie look", that says it all!). I remember now also When Irish Eyes Were Crying, on the first scene after the opening, there is a take in which C&T are close to a wall and a window (OCB). The daylight passing through the window was once a clean white, very strong. On DVD and HD it looked too warm, reddish and faded. A few months ago I was trying to emulate the original look of "Line of Fire" on that scene in which Crockett, Tubbs and Marty discuss outside the Hotel what would be the next step. Well, I could see it was all wrong!

I also guess some stuff appears more on Seasons 3-5 because on those Seasons someone apparently decided that MV would be extremely bold when it came to colors and photography. 

 

You could very well be right! Maybe the copies were not stored properly and there was enough damage even by the time USA started airing reruns that they went ahead and just “fixed” or created the colors they wanted for some reason? It’s almost like USA created their own MV logo for the last three seasons. Subsequently, and sadly, those versions were then used for the DVD and Blu-ray sets. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[FlexMcMurphy]

I've been thinking about watching Miami Vice for about a year now. I would love to get the best viewing experience to do it justice. I have read a lot of posts in this thread and I am very tempted to buy the new Koch version that is out now because it seems like the best version available at the moment.

But I don't actually need any of the German dubbing or subtitles. It seems a shame that Koch did not also make a version just for the English speaking market? It could have less Blu Ray discs and so sell for cheaper too!

Flex

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, FlexMcMurphy said:

I've been thinking about watching Miami Vice for about a year now. I would love to get the best viewing experience to do it justice. I have read a lot of posts in this thread and I am very tempted to buy the new Koch version that is out now because it seems like the best version available at the moment.

But I don't actually need any of the German dubbing or subtitles. It seems a shame that Koch did not also make a version just for the English speaking market? It could have less Blu Ray discs and so sell for cheaper too!

Flex

There are at least 3 different Blu-Ray sets  that I can think of...might be 4?? Koch is the “newest” one I believe, therefore the most expensive...but they all have been digitally remastered supposedly better than the original DVD sets. So, it probably all comes down to how much you’re willing to spend, but probably get about the same quality whichever set you get.    

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb FlexMcMurphy:

I've been thinking about watching Miami Vice for about a year now. I would love to get the best viewing experience to do it justice. I have read a lot of posts in this thread and I am very tempted to buy the new Koch version that is out now because it seems like the best version available at the moment.

But I don't actually need any of the German dubbing or subtitles. It seems a shame that Koch did not also make a version just for the English speaking market? It could have less Blu Ray discs and so sell for cheaper too!

Flex

I don’t see the issue. Koch has the full English original versions (German language and subtitles optional only) and is also the only one with English subtitles. No other DVD/BluRay set has it.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Tom

[ViceFanMan]

One thing to remember is, if you’re in the U.S. but get a set that’s made outside the U.S./Canada, you’ll need to make sure you have a region free Blu-Ray player. But, if you’re in the U.S. it might be easier to get the U.S. set. All home video sets (DVD & Blu-Ray) are the same edited/cut/syndicated episodes that were used for the reruns. So, you’re not getting different versions with any set you get. 

[Tom]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb ViceFanMan:

All home video sets (DVD & Blu-Ray) are the same edited/cut/syndicated episodes that were used for the reruns. So, you’re not getting different versions with any set you get. 

Not fully correct although all vendors used the same Universal (HD) master-there is only one. Picture quality differs considerably after encoding from the master with Koch as the best AND Koch has corrected with lots of effort several mistakes in the Universal Masters (dropped frames in scenes, dropped audio, ...) that nobody else has done. In this sense, there is not the same version on the sets.

So let´s avoid the impression for non expert readers who consider to buy a set that all sets offer the same quality.

[ViceFanMan]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

Not fully correct although all vendors used the same Universal (HD) master-there is only one. Picture quality differs considerably after encoding from the master with Koch as the best AND Koch has corrected with lots of effort several mistakes in the Universal Masters (dropped frames in scenes, dropped audio, ...) that nobody else has done. In this sense, there is not the same version on the sets.

So let´s avoid the impression for non expert readers who consider to buy a set that all sets offer the same quality.

Everyone can choose whatever set they feel would best benefit them...and Koch may have done different remastering to improve some scenes...although I don’t remember that many “dropped frames” or missing audio pieces when watching the DVD sets when they were released? But there may have been a scene or two. I haven’t watched those particular sets in several years. 

I’m just not sure how much more “remastering” can be done than what’s already out there with Blu-ray sets. And the episodes are the same versions with all of them. There’s no original complete/uncut airings available (or allowed) to be used.

It’s the price that makes me question getting the Koch set right now. But, that’s me...anyone can get whatever sets they feel are the best for them. 

[Cassagrande.M]

I got the Koch version very shorty after it’s release. Worth every penny and a must for serious hardcore vice fans. Stunning artwork. European market has the best Vice Blu-rays. The best being Koch and the second in my eyes being the UK Vice boxset from fabulous entertainment. Both better than the US millcreek versions. 
 

The colours on the Koch set really pop.

[ViceFanMan]

16 hours ago, Cassagrande.M said:

I got the Koch version very shorty after it’s release. Worth every penny and a must for serious hardcore vice fans. Stunning artwork. European market has the best Vice Blu-rays. The best being Koch and the second in my eyes being the UK Vice boxset from fabulous entertainment. Both better than the US millcreek versions. 
 

The colours on the Koch set really pop.

The colors are very visual, beautiful, and definitely “pop”. However, in all honesty...it doesn’t look like MV to me. This is totally my opinion, but the comparisons of the Koch set colors I’ve seen so far look very bright, “harsh”, garish, and neon...rather than subtle, “soft”, and pastel—which is what Miami Vice was originally about.

The show was “dark” with its tone and subject matter...but interjected a Caribbean-pastel color scheme. Very much (at the time) a modern day noir...or sometimes referred to as neo-noir. Don’t get me wrong, I love color, but the bright neon colors are more in line with the crime drama Silk Stalkings; 10-12 years later....which in my opinion was the 90s answer to the “MV formula”...and I also love & have.

I don’t doubt that Koch has used a new way to again ‘remaster’ the colors to an extent...but the stills I’ve seen so far almost look like Koch has created its own neon color-scheme. I am not saying it’s a “bad” set...I’m sure it’s the newest and most re-done Blu-Ray set out there.

I just question with all the ‘remastering’ and altering of things to make it as digital and HD as possible, that we’ve “altered” and ultimately changed how the show originally looked/was...and how it originally was intended to impact us. But, just my opinion. For those willing to pay the price and like the set...awesome!  

Edited May 21, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Glades]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

The colors are very visual, beautiful, and definitely “pop”. However, in all honesty...it doesn’t look like MV to me. This is totally my opinion, but the comparisons of the Koch set colors I’ve seen so far look very bright, “harsh”, garish, and neon...rather than subtle, “soft”, and pastel—which is what Miami Vice was originally about.

The show was “dark” with its tone and subject matter...but interjected a Caribbean-pastel color scheme. Very much (at the time) a modern day noir...or sometimes referred to as neo-noir.

So far I have 3 (!) MV complete sets. But all I really want is a good one. O.k. maybe it's good to have a second one as a spare...

My first set, the German DVD set, unfortunately has only the cut version, with each episode missing 3-5 minutes. Back then I didn't even know the German DVD set was a cut version.  
Once I discovered my passion for MV, I realized that pretty quickly and bought an English set with English subtitles (because just listening to English is sometimes difficult for me). There was 2 years ago only the old DVD set from Universal, which offers subtitles.
And now the German BluRay set from Koch.  German and uncut (VFM, you know what I mean!) was just too tempting.

And I'm still unhappy. I like the colors best on the old cut German set, but that's cut, unfortunately.  The universal set is quite brown and dirty. Not pretty. And the Koch set?  Better, but as VFM says, the colors strike me as too gaudy too, not pastel. Mainly I'm bothered by the facial tones, which are sometimes almost a bit greenish. However, there are also scenes where this is quite great... And I don't have a very good monitor and don't really know how to adjust it by myself.  Maybe this is the reason? I don't know.

I want the egg-laying wool-milk sow!!! (Do you understand that expression in English?)

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Glades

[Tom]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb ViceFanMan:

The colors are very visual, beautiful, and definitely “pop”. However, in all honesty...it doesn’t look like MV to me. This is totally my opinion, but the comparisons of the Koch set colors I’ve seen so far look very bright, “harsh”, garish, and neon...rather than subtle, “soft”, and pastel—which is what Miami Vice was originally about.

In all honesty you should not judge a book that you don´t have, just because you have seen the cover. 

The picture form El Viejo above is taken from a TV screen (thus not very representative), but still overall has the colors as they had it on the set when filming it. You don´t believe that? Just look at the colors of the skin of both actors as reference points. Both, DJ and PMT show their natural skin color (DJ a bit reddish after sun exposure), thus the strong blue is correct and not artificially distorted in one way or the other by Koch.

And judging a set by a couple of photographed stills from a TV screen of somebody else is hopefully not what you are trying to do here?

The Koch BluRays (I have it and thus I can assess it as I have seen all episodes and compared them with other recordings I have!) have very natural colors and VICE was always very colorful even if contrasts changed over the seasons. We are not used to it anymore because the earlier DVD/BluRAy releases and also the Online (Amazon....) versions are so unnaturally dull and dusk due to completely wrong gamma shift and other settings they used when encoding from the Universal HD master. The same goes for your NBC originals (I have them too on cassettes and DVDs) as they were not recorded well and naturally due to technology back then, but VICE was filmed on normal movie 35mm material which preserved the original quality (It´s not only about colors, also about graininess and details, Koch did a good compromise on details but not emphasizing grains too much, but that´s why the colors come out that strong, as every single hair of the actors) over the years and the Koch set is the first to bring it back as originally filmed.

Bottom line: buy the Koch set, then you can judge it yourself.   

Edited May 21, 2021 by Tom