Episode #27 "Buddies"

[Bren10]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

Going by what is actually seen and said in the show, it seems that this aspect of Crockett's past wasn’t designed to infer any authenticity that could stand up to such scrutiny, as many of the details seem to conflict one another. 

Many aspects of the show are like this—just enough to facilitate the story—right down to the Ferrari replicar. 

Good point but it's fun to try to figure it out somehow.

[Robbie C.]

I'm going to start a thread where we can discuss this in more detail, but Crockett's talk about Maynard is more in line with someone he met during the performance of his duties instead of a CO. That and the whole "Captain Real Estate" thing. He describes him as a spook (intel guy) he met, not a CO.

[Robbie C.]

Interesting twist on the episode: according to an earlier version of Frank MIlitary's script, Noogie was supposed to be with the girl instead of Annie. His lines are WAY better than Annie's, too. Other than that, the final version stayed pretty true to the draft. Even the exchange between Robbie and Sonny in the office.

[RedDragon86]

20 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Interesting twist on the episode: according to an earlier version of Frank MIlitary's script, Noogie was supposed to be with the girl instead of Annie. His lines are WAY better than Annie's, too. Other than that, the final version stayed pretty true to the draft. Even the exchange between Robbie and Sonny in the office.

It was better that it was Annie because they had a bond together. It more sense in a practical way that it was her instead of Noogie, the scenes where she is hiding the baby food and when Sonny grabs her and the car chase begins, they couldn't have did any of this with Noogie. I particularly like that emotional scene at the telephone booth when Annie puts her hand on the glass implying that she is there for Dorothy.

[Robbie C.]

8 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

It was better that it was Annie because they had a bond together. It more sense in a practical way that it was her instead of Noogie, the scenes where she is hiding the baby food and when Sonny grabs her and the car chase begins, they couldn't have did any of this with Noogie. I particularly like that emotional scene at the telephone booth when Annie puts her hand on the glass implying that she is there for Dorothy.

Actually the way the original script sets it up, Noogie is backstage trying to sell Annie's singing act when he keeps Dorothy from being fired for having the kid backstage. It actually flows really well, because Noogie bonds with her because his sister had an abusive boyfriend. And actually the hand on the phone booth was originally written for Noogie. Right down to it being night and her reaching up and touching the glass. Noogie's actually shoplifting baby food for her when Crockett catches up with him, and the confrontation between Robbie and his father's goons is at Noogie's place...where Noogie stashed Dorothy and Stevie. So yeah...they DID have all of it for Noogie and just shifted Annie in.

[vicegirl85]

Very interesting!

[RedDragon86]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Actually the way the original script sets it up, Noogie is backstage trying to sell Annie's singing act when he keeps Dorothy from being fired for having the kid backstage. It actually flows really well, because Noogie bonds with her because his sister had an abusive boyfriend. And actually the hand on the phone booth was originally written for Noogie. Right down to it being night and her reaching up and touching the glass. Noogie's actually shoplifting baby food for her when Crockett catches up with him, and the confrontation between Robbie and his father's goons is at Noogie's place...where Noogie stashed Dorothy and Stevie. So yeah...they DID have all of it for Noogie and just shifted Annie in.

Don't you think it would have been out of character for Noogie to act this way?

 

[Robbie C.]

Not really. Noogie always waffled between extremes, and if she reminded him of his sister (which the script frames nicely) with the domestic abuse angle it would make sense. They also have the baby falling asleep in his arms when he's backstage with her. Honestly all they really seemed to do with Annie was the old "hooker with a heart of gold" angle, and that felt thinner to me.

[mjcmmv]

12 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Don't you think it would have been out of character for Noogie to act this way?

 

I loved the phone booth scene, too, but it's still interesting to explore how this plot could have taken a different turn. Noogie was a hustler and not appreciated by the Vice team. In other words, a total loser. Then, this girl and her baby come on the scene and suddenly, he sees his sister, someone he wasn't able to save or protect from an abusive relationship. Now, he sees a chance to set things right. In typical Noogie fashion, he throws him self into this role. Stealing, conning and lying are the only things he knows to get what he needs, so that's what he does. Imagining Crockett seeing him with bags of stolen baby food sounds hilarious! 

Just another way of looking at it. We still have our good memories of the episode to hold on to. 

[Detective_Crockett]

Great episode but the abrupt ending really ruins it. 

[Dadrian]

15 minutes ago, Detective_Crockett said:

Great episode but the abrupt ending really ruins it. 

Like some other MV eps, the ending is indeed abrupt, but it does at least resolve in that Robbie does what he considered to be “the right thing” for all parties involved. 

[Robbie C.]

And it is pretty much how the draft script ends, so they didn't cut something out just to rush to a finish.

[Dadrian]

3 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

And it is pretty much how the draft script ends, so they didn't cut something out just to rush to a finish.

Yeah, this one was more about the journey than the destination. 

[Matt5]

I watched this one the other evening - something about the production of this one seems to be rushed. 

 I didn’t like all the interior set work (hotel room, Robbies club) which suffocated the episode I felt along with Robbies desperate/ man on the edge one dimensional acting pieces - this one was a good vehicle for Crockett though. 

After the excellent “Dutch Oven “ and before the great “Junk Love” - “Buddies” is a lower standard in my opinion. 9/10

Edited August 9, 2019 by Matt5

[RedDragon86]

To me it didn't feel like an abrupt end. 

Came across as well that's it, it's over. Like Dadrian said it was all resolved, so no need to prolong it any further. Another scene would have been too much.

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Matt5 said:

I watched this one the other evening - something about the production of this one seems to be rushed. 

 I didn’t like all the interior set work (hotel room, Robbies club) which suffocated the episode I felt along with Robbies desperate/ man on the edge one dimensional acting pieces - this one was a good vehicle for Crockett though. 

After the excellent “Dutch Oven “ and before the great “Junk Love” - “Buddies” is a lower standard in my opinion. 9/10

I wonder how much this had to do with the switch from Noogie to Annie? The draft script is much more vibrant in many places and doesn’t seem as cramped, possible because the intent was for Noogie’s exchanges to light up the scene. Once that goes, you lose an element they didn’t effectively replace. 

[Matt5]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

I wonder how much this had to do with the switch from Noogie to Annie? The draft script is much more vibrant in many places and doesn’t seem as cramped, possible because the intent was for Noogie’s exchanges to light up the scene. Once that goes, you lose an element they didn’t effectively replace. 

Yes that would have helped - Noog man would have brought some comedy to it. Some of the scenes seemed weighed down like the scene between Robbie and Crockett at the club before the chase it was quite long and not helped with the heavy interior set. I didn’t realise Noog Man was scripted originally.

[Matt5]

Just to add I think “Buddies” being between two very good episodes “Dutch Oven” and “Junk Love” made the episode difficult to live up too. Other elements there were a lot of night scenes and interior scenes in “Buddies” which made it feel more claustrophobic and lot less Tubbs. Tubbs was always the chilled out one to Crockett’s slightly more edgy/ tense personality. Crockett was pretty tense throughout the episode which made the episode feel tense with the other factors you and I mentioned.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Matt5

[Robbie C.]

25 minutes ago, Matt5 said:

Yes that would have helped - Noog man would have brought some comedy to it. Some of the scenes seemed weighed down like the scene between Robbie and Crockett at the club before the chase it was quite long and not helped with the heavy interior set. I didn’t realise Noog Man was scripted originally.

Yeah. He had Annie’s role and some of the dialog was quite powerful. It lost something when they changed it. 

[Matt5]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

Yeah. He had Annie’s role and some of the dialog was quite powerful. It lost something when they changed it. 

Definately. And we wouldn’t see Noog Man again till the penultimate Season 2 episode “Trust Fund Pirates”.

[Robbie C.]

31 minutes ago, Matt5 said:

Just to add I think “Buddies” being between two very good episodes “Dutch Oven” and “Junk Love” made the episode difficult to live up too. Other elements there were a lot of night scenes and interior scenes in “Buddies” which made it feel more claustrophobic and lot less Tubbs. Tubbs was always the chilled out one to Crockett’s slightly more edgy/ tense personality. Crockett was pretty tense throughout the episode which made the episode feel tense with the other factors you and I mentioned.

I think Crockett was tense because he was confronting a time in his life he’d locked away for years. Noogie kind of was, too, so it made nice bookend moments. When they changed it they lost that, and I think it made the episode weaker. It’s still one of my favorites, though. 

[Matt5]

13 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

I think Crockett was tense because he was confronting a time in his life he’d locked away for years. Noogie kind of was, too, so it made nice bookend moments. When they changed it they lost that, and I think it made the episode weaker. It’s still one of my favorites, though. 

What was the story of Noog being written out of this one ? Do you know? 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Matt5

[Robbie C.]

29 minutes ago, Matt5 said:

What was the story of Noog being written out of this one ? Do you know? 

I don’t, but it could have been related to some of his personal issues. A shame, really. I think the whole baby arc was done specifically for him. 

[Matt5]

20 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

I don’t, but it could have been related to some of his personal issues. A shame, really. I think the whole baby arc was done specifically for him. 

Yes he did have major substance abuse issues a real shame. I think drug use contributed to his erratic comedy performances somehow.

Charlie Barnett died so young from aids through drug use I read  at 42 in 1996.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Matt5

[summer84]

I really enjoyed the episode this time, than the last time I watched it. Maybe having Noogie in the part instead of Annie wouldn't have been bad/unrealistic, as it could sound, but to me Annie and Dorothy really bonded, she could have been like a mother to her. She was good in the role.

Edited February 5, 2020 by summer84