Episode #27 "Buddies"

[RedDragon86]

19 minutes ago, summer84 said:

I really enjoyed the episode this time, than the last time I watched it. Maybe having Noogie in the part instead of Annie wouldn't have been bad/unrealistic, as it could sound, but to me Annie and Dorothy really bonded, she could have been like a mother to her. She was good in the role.

I agree, it wouldn't have worked with Noogie even if he was the originally going to play the part. We are so use to seeing Noogie as this goofy, not to be taking serious character to a understanding person for someone to talk to? so out of character and unrealistic.

I could maybe understand Izzy changing into a sensible person for an episode but Noogie? he was a class clown.

Edited February 5, 2020 by RedDragon86

[summer84]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

I agree, it wouldn't have worked with Noogie even if he was the originally going to play the part. We are so use to seeing Noogie as this goofy, not to be taking serious character to a understanding person for someone to talk to? so out of character and unrealistic.

I could maybe understand maybe Izzy changing into a sensible person for an episode but Noogie? he was a class clown.

He was kind of often acting like a baby/child himself.  That's a least how, he was presented to the viewer and then to suddenly act different... In that case they should have given that kind of depth to him earlier on. To me he was just too immature to take on such responsibility. He would probably rather be out doing schemes. 

[RedDragon86]

4 minutes ago, summer84 said:

He was kind of often acting like a baby/child himself.  That's a least how, he was presented to the viewer and then to suddenly act different... In that case they should have given that kind of depth to him earlier on. To me he was just too immature to take on such responsibility. He would probably rather be out doing schemes. 

I agree completely. It would have been massively flawed for him to be this way out of the blue. Its like he would act all serious in this one then go back acting childish again in Trust Fund Pirates?

I think he would have ruined "Buddies" which is a Miami Vice classic.

Edited February 5, 2020 by RedDragon86

[summer84]

13 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I could maybe understand Izzy changing into a sensible person for an episode but Noogie? he was a class clown.

I had thought about whether Izzy would have been a better choice/more believable. Maybe I'm not sure. We've seen a more serious/caring side of him, like when, he visits Crockett in the hospital. Or tries to get Crockett's Daytona back. Although using his illegal ways. But in the end to me Annie was the right choice. 

[Robbie C.]

I frankly can't stand Annie in this one (or in any other episode, honestly). I always thought the episode was good in spite of her, not because of her. The whole dynamic was Robbie and Sonny...the girl and the rest were simply levers to create the conflict. We'll never know what Noogie would have looked like on screen for this, but the lines Annie was using were taken almost exactly from the script as it was written for Noogie.

[summer84]

I guess we won't know, but personally I'm not curious, as for me Annie did well with the part, it was good it was changed. I just couldn't picture Noogie in that role. That wasn't him to act that way. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by summer84

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, summer84 said:

I guess we won't know, but personally I'm not curious, as for me Annie did well with the part, it was good it was changed. I just couldn't picture Noogie in that role. That wasn't him to act that way. 

We will continue to disagree on this point, but that's fine.

[summer84]

Yes we can agree to disagree. We all have our own opinions. 

[RedDragon86]

Classic episode, Miami Vice at it's best. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by RedDragon86

[Matt5]

Mrs Noog Man aka Ample Annie showed up in Die Hard 2 (1990) as an airline stewardess who had a speaking part. Also in Die Hard 2 was Alan Beakes (bad guy) from Hell Hath No Fury in Season 4.

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Matt5 said:

Mrs Noog Man aka Ample Annie showed up in Die Hard 2 (1990) as an airline stewardess who had a speaking part. Also in Die Hard 2 was Alan Beakes (bad guy) from Hell Hath No Fury in Season 4.

I know her character is annoying, but I think she was really pretty in this episode. 

[Matt5]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

I know her character is annoying, but I think she was really pretty in this episode. 

Yes she was really pretty and in “Made For Each Other” too earlier in 1985.

She also looked pretty in Die Hard 2 - although a very small role I was suprised to see her.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Matt5

[ViceFanMan]

On 2/5/2020 at 3:48 PM, RedDragon86 said:

I agree, it wouldn't have worked with Noogie even if he was the originally going to play the part. We are so use to seeing Noogie as this goofy, not to be taking serious character to a understanding person for someone to talk to? so out of character and unrealistic.

I could maybe understand Izzy changing into a sensible person for an episode but Noogie? he was a class clown.

Totally agree! Noogie was a total annoying, spazoid, moron! I couldn’t stand him!  Sorry, my opinion...but to have him suddenly be more “serious” or sane would have definitely been out of character, ridiculous & not gone over well. Annie was annoying enough, but she bonded better, and more realistically with Dorothy. It was the right decision to have her instead of ‘Nugart’.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[ViceFanMan]

“Buddies” is an episode that I’m kind of on the fence with...I like the plot idea of Crockett’s long-time friend turning out to be  a fake, of sorts, and having to deal with being betrayed in a way. 

The action is really good, and of course if anything ‘makes’ this episode it’s the song “No Guarantees” by The Nobodys...superb tune!!   Is there somewhere to download that song online? Anyway, you also ‘feel’ for Dorothy & her baby.

But, I don’t know...I’m just not as enthralled with this one as some are. It’s definitely not a dud (I don’t think Season 2 had a dud! ), nor is it just a “filler”...but to me it’s also not one of the best, either. It’s sort of a mid-grade episode. I originally officially gave it a 6...I might change it to a 6.5-7 if I could.

[wolfie1996]

On 4/27/2009 at 10:24 AM, Tommy Vercetti said:

Buddies is a terrific episode. Style, imagery, music are the faultless and it has a top notch story too.First things first, I absolutely love the intro. Two great songs('Go For A Soda' and 'Sweet Soul Music') and I just love the whole sequence. Sonny and Robby's chemistry, the barman commenting on Robby gulping down three shots and the altercation Robby gets into when he dances on the pool table like a moron. Great sequence. One of my favourite intros on the show. Heart of Darkness, Out Where the Buses Don't Run, Red Tape and Hard Knocks are others. James Remar was great as always. It made a change seeing him play something of a weakling as he usually plays tough guys, like in The Warriors and 48 HRS. I also liked his portrayal of Dutch Schultz in The Cotton Club.The girl who played Dorothy Bane was pretty bad though. She made Saundra Santiago seem like Meryl Streep. And, maybe he did at the time, but now Nathan Lane doesn't convince as an attempted rapist. I liked Ample Annie. She's a better character and comic relief than her idiotic husband. Frank Military did a very good job with the script for this episode. He was an excellent Vice writer. This ep has invited comparasions with Evan but I don't think it's too much like it. It's a more conventional episode than Evan I think. And Sonny had fallen out with Evan, not with Robby so it was different in that respect. There's a lot of powerful scenes, like the baptism, Sonny manhandling the abusive husband and his confrontation with Robby. As for the ending, it is a bit of a stretch how Sonny got there in the nick of time. And I don't think Robby died. I'd like to think he didn't. He had a child to support and he was quite a good guy. Sonny and Robby's big confrontation was a great scene. Very well written and both actors were excellent. There's a bit of a problem with this ep and it's that there some major plot holes. There is no way Robby or the hit squad could've known that Dorothy was at Annie's place. Robby didn't even know Annie so how could he have known? And Sonny should've believed Robby when he said he didn't know anything about Cannata trying to kill Dorothy. He genuinely didn't know anything about it. He never talked to his father or had anything to do with his business. So how could he have known they had a contract on Dorothy? But these plot holes are only a minor complaint and they can be overlooked. The climax was terrific. Great chase sequence and a great song in 'No Guarantees' by The Nobodys. And I loved the Jan Hammer tune that was later re-used in Forgive Us Our Debts. Excellent ep. One of the best of season two. 9/10

Excellent review. I've just rewatched this episode and was pleasantly surprised at how good it was. You've  covered a lot of good points already so I won't repeat them. Sterling performance from DJ with lots of opportunities  to display a bit of male bonding etc which he's so good at (is he like that in real life I wonder? can certainly turn it on in an uninhibited  way when he needs to  and not everybody can.)Plenty action  and a bit of  suspense too. I have my doubts about Robbie's survival (wouldn't have in later seasons, that's for sure!) because Sonny looked really sad when he was telling him he'd "be OK". I didn't believe it. Unless it was the death of another illusion.. I agree with you that although there's a lot of emotional content, this  episode isn't like Evan. Evan was deeper and genuinely tragic. I don't know why I watch it before I go to bed because it doesn't  encourage falling asleep! Whereas hopefully I won't have that problem with this one! A 9/10 from me.

[Jack Gretsky]

Good Scorsese-like teaser with a celebratory scene getting tenser and tenser as lines are crossed.  

The character that Karla Tamburrelli played on an episode of Seinfeld I've always found annoying; I much prefer her Ample Annie!  Put me on the list of liking the much-maligned Eszter Balint as Dorothy. She's in one my favorite films, Stranger Than Paradise.  She sure is put through the wringer in the first 15 minutes of the episode! (On the run from an abusive husband, alone taking care of a baby, fired from her job because she dropped glasses because some jerk grabbed at her, then on the run from gunmen.) This is an early appearance by Nathan Lane who was acting and singing in flop Broadway musicals such as Merlin and The Wind in the Willow around this time.  

According to Robbie C's access to Frank Military's script, Charlie Barnett's Noogie would have been featured heavily.  It would have been nice to see the ol' Noog-Man one more time.  Military, as you all know, also played one of the out-of-control punks in "Nobody Lives Forever." 

I wish I could write something intelligent about the Robbie & Sonny friendship and the ferocity of that final gun battle, but what I really take away are scenes like the chase - black night sky, but those pale/white/pink/blue buildings lit up like a circus as those muscles cars zoom by.  A section of Heaven has got to be this setting. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[RedDragon86]

5 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

Good Scorsese-like teaser with a celebratory scene getting tenser and tenser as lines are crossed.  

The character that Karla Tamburrelli played on an episode of Seinfeld I've always found annoying; I much prefer her Ample Annie!  Put me on the list of liking the much-maligned Eszter Balint as Dorothy. She's in one my favorite films, Stranger Than Paradise.  She sure is put through the wringer in the first 15 minutes of the episode! (On the run from an abusive husband, alone taking care of a baby, fired from her job because she dropped glasses because some jerk grabbed at her, then on the run from gunmen.) This is an early appearance by Nathan Lane who was acting and singing in flop Broadway musicals such as Merlin and The Wind in the Willow around this time.  

According to Robbie C's access to Frank Military's script, Charlie Barnett's Noogie would have been featured heavily.  It would have been nice to see the ol' Noog-Man one more time.  Military, as you all know, also played one of the out-of-control punks in "Nobody Lives Forever." 

I wish I could write something intelligent about the Robbie & Sonny friendship and the ferocity of that final gun battle, but what I really take away are scenes like the chase - black night sky, but those pale/white/pink/blue buildings lit up like a circus as those muscles cars zoom by.  A section of Heaven has got to be this setting. 

Apparently he was going to the be in Annie's role, which I would have found seriously far fetched.

I mean the guy going from being class clown to a sensitive deep feeling guy? The Noogman must have really been a re-ha-bili-tated dude.

 

[RedDragon86]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:03 PM, Dadrian said:

I know her character is annoying, but I think she was really pretty in this episode. 

I like her, funny the way she looks at Sonny in his car while they are going 80mph

[ViceFanMan]

8 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

Good Scorsese-like teaser with a celebratory scene getting tenser and tenser as lines are crossed.  

The character that Karla Tamburrelli played on an episode of Seinfeld I've always found annoying; I much prefer her Ample Annie!  Put me on the list of liking the much-maligned Eszter Balint as Dorothy. She's in one my favorite films, Stranger Than Paradise.  She sure is put through the wringer in the first 15 minutes of the episode! (On the run from an abusive husband, alone taking care of a baby, fired from her job because she dropped glasses because some jerk grabbed at her, then on the run from gunmen.) This is an early appearance by Nathan Lane who was acting and singing in flop Broadway musicals such as Merlin and The Wind in the Willow around this time.  

According to Robbie C's access to Frank Military's script, Charlie Barnett's Noogie would have been featured heavily.  It would have been nice to see the ol' Noog-Man one more time.  Military, as you all know, also played one of the out-of-control punks in "Nobody Lives Forever." 

I wish I could write something intelligent about the Robbie & Sonny friendship and the ferocity of that final gun battle, but what I really take away are scenes like the chase - black night sky, but those pale/white/pink/blue buildings lit up like a circus as those muscles cars zoom by.  A section of Heaven has got to be this setting. 

There’s no way Noogie could have pulled this off...he could barely do his scenes in the other episodes.  They were right to change him out! But, pretty decent episode overall...plot, colors, lighting, action, music, etc...! 

Edited September 3, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

7 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I like her, funny the way she looks at Sonny in his car while they are going 80mph

Yeah, I love that as well, sort of when Crockett & Trudy were racing down the street in 'The Dutch Oven', except it's a little funnier with Ample Annie giving the impression that Sonny's going warp speed.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

13 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

Good Scorsese-like teaser with a celebratory scene getting tenser and tenser as lines are crossed.  

The character that Karla Tamburrelli played on an episode of Seinfeld I've always found annoying; I much prefer her Ample Annie!  Put me on the list of liking the much-maligned Eszter Balint as Dorothy. She's in one my favorite films, Stranger Than Paradise.  She sure is put through the wringer in the first 15 minutes of the episode! (On the run from an abusive husband, alone taking care of a baby, fired from her job because she dropped glasses because some jerk grabbed at her, then on the run from gunmen.) This is an early appearance by Nathan Lane who was acting and singing in flop Broadway musicals such as Merlin and The Wind in the Willow around this time.  

According to Robbie C's access to Frank Military's script, Charlie Barnett's Noogie would have been featured heavily.  It would have been nice to see the ol' Noog-Man one more time.  Military, as you all know, also played one of the out-of-control punks in "Nobody Lives Forever." 

I wish I could write something intelligent about the Robbie & Sonny friendship and the ferocity of that final gun battle, but what I really take away are scenes like the chase - black night sky, but those pale/white/pink/blue buildings lit up like a circus as those muscles cars zoom by.  A section of Heaven has got to be this setting. 

I though Eszter Balint's Dorothy Bain was fine, and I really felt for the situation she found herself in; she's like the dictionary definition of "helpless" in that spot, with really nothing at all in her favor (that's why I feel her interactions with Ample Annie mean something).

[RedDragon86]

17 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Yeah, I love that as well, sort of when Crockett & Trudy were racing down the street in 'The Dutch Oven', except it's a little funnier with Ample Annie giving the impression that Sonny's going warp speed.

It's funny how Sonny has no regard for the passenger while driving like a lunatic 

Edited September 4, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

18 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

It's funny how Sonny has no regard for the passenger while driving like a lunatic 

Ha ha, no doubt; that's why Tubbs gets on him about his racing in 'Florence Italy' (now the scenes with Ira Stone in 'Stone's War' and 'Down for the Count, Part II' I can understand).

[Robbie C.]

On 9/3/2021 at 6:31 AM, RedDragon86 said:

Apparently he was going to the be in Annie's role, which I would have found seriously far fetched.

I mean the guy going from being class clown to a sensitive deep feeling guy? The Noogman must have really been a re-ha-bili-tated dude.

 

The lines are pretty much unchanged between Noogie and Annie. It's easy to look back after seeing Noogie in later episodes and assume this wouldn't have worked for him, but I don't think that's accurate. From the scene direction it looks like this was intended to be something of a redemption episode for him. I think it would have been interesting to see Noogie move out of the typecast zone. That and Annie is fingernails on a chalk board as far as I'm concerned.

[RedDragon86]

4 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

The lines are pretty much unchanged between Noogie and Annie. It's easy to look back after seeing Noogie in later episodes and assume this wouldn't have worked for him, but I don't think that's accurate. From the scene direction it looks like this was intended to be something of a redemption episode for him. I think it would have been interesting to see Noogie move out of the typecast zone. That and Annie is fingernails on a chalk board as far as I'm concerned.

It was already established that Noogie was an idiotic, loveable sort of guy in season 1.

Him being all deep and understanding towards Dorothy, sorry but I cannot see it.