Episode #25 "Out Where The Buses Don't Run"

[Dadrian]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

One thing I always wondered the killing of Arcaro, did they torture him? and was he killed the same day or night he was buried behind the wall?

Maybe @Robbie C. could do a prequel for us. 

[mjcmmv]

8 hours ago, Dadrian said:

Maybe @Robbie C. could do a prequel for us. 

YES!

[RedDragon86]

No pressure Robbie 

[Tom]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb RedDragon86:

One thing I always wondered the killing of Arcaro, did they torture him? and was he killed the same day or night he was buried behind the wall?

Why torture? No indication of that. Weldon and his partner abducted Arcaro right after the trial. He still even wore his suit and held the newspaper of the day in his wall grave.  

And killed before? Nope, illogical. You don’t take the effort to build a wall for a corpse. Walling in someone means building a wall around someone alive. That was a symbol and means to let him disappear without a trail.

He suffocated and/or starved to death in there. Most probably they only had to sedate him until the wall was built. 

(A small mistake in the final scene is of course the “wall” which is made of typical US “cardboard” inner walls instead of bricks. In reality Arcaro would have succeeded to kick in the thin cardboard wall somehow instead of waiting  nicely until air is used up or stomach is empty  ;-)

Edited October 8, 2019 by Tom

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Arcaro would have succeeded to kick in the thin cardboard wall somehow instead of waiting  nicely until air is used up or stomach is empty

Weren’t his arms tied level with his head from the sides? Maybe his feet were bound, too. 

[Tom]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Dadrian:

Weren’t his arms tied level with his head from the sides? Maybe his feet were bound, too. 

Really? Can’t recall to having seen that detail in the short cut of the dried Arcaro body at the end. Will check that.

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

Why torture? No indication of that. Weldon and his partner abducted Arcaro right after the trial. He still even wore his suit and held the newspaper of the day in his wall grave.  

And killed before? Nope, illogical. You don’t take the effort to build a wall for a corpse. Walling in someone means building a wall around someone alive. That was a symbol and means to let him disappear without a trail.

He suffocated and/or starved to death in there. Most probably they only had to sedate him until the wall was built. 

(A small mistake in the final scene is of course the “wall” which is made of typical US “cardboard” inner walls instead of bricks. In reality Arcaro would have succeeded to kick in the thin cardboard wall somehow instead of waiting  nicely until air is used up or stomach is empty  ;-)

How do you know they didn’t kill him elsewhere and then pose the body behind the wall? I doubt they tortured him, though. Or in a clear homage to Poe they could have poisoned him and then stuck him there. That seems more likely, since this episode has heavy Poe undertones. 

[Dadrian]

41 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

How do you know they didn’t kill him elsewhere and then pose the body behind the wall? I doubt they tortured him, though. Or in a clear homage to Poe they could have poisoned him and then stuck him there. That seems more likely, since this episode has heavy Poe undertones. 

Maybe they had a cask of clam juice just before. 

[Bren10]

Why would he bother holding onto the newspaper the whole time if he was still alive?

[Tom]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Robbie C.:

How do you know they didn’t kill him elsewhere and then pose the body behind the wall? I doubt they tortured him, though. Or in a clear homage to Poe they could have poisoned him and then stuck him there. That seems more likely, since this episode has heavy Poe undertones. 

Nobody knows but it’s unlikely. First as said for practical reasons- why build a wall for a corpse? And second: Weldon was a burnt out cop not an icecold killer. He wouldn’t shot him but rather bury him alive. Also the short glimpse on Arcaros body gives no indication for a wound.

[Robbie C.]

7 minutes ago, Tom said:

Nobody knows but it’s unlikely. First as said for practical reasons- why build a wall for a corpse? And second: Weldon was a burnt out cop not an icecold killer. He wouldn’t shot him but rather bury him alive. Also the short glimpse on Arcaros body gives no indication for a wound.

You’ll notice I said poison. And in any case I’d say it takes far more than being a burned out cop to wall someone in alive. That takes quite a bit of planning and premeditation. If he got pissed and accidentally killed him I might buy the burned out cop idea. But this is deeper than that. 

[Robbie C.]

35 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Why would he bother holding onto the newspaper the whole time if he was still alive?

If you go with the poisoning idea they could have hit him with one of the paralytic varieties and posed him that way when they sealed him in. Of course if he was already dead it’s easier to pose. 

[Bren10]

I don't know that that follows, Tom. You think it's less cold blooded to bury somebody alive as opposed to shooting them? What's your definition of a mercy killing then? I'd be afraid to find out. Even so, we don't know how badly Weldon snapped or how far but we do know it was at least bad enough to be institutionalized at one time. There's no telling how far he'd go or has already gone. The Ocean Club hit and the Stiltsville raid also show a serious disregard for people's lives on Weldon's part imo. Part of the impact and creepiness of this ep for me has always been the possible implications of what they did to Arcaro after they got ahold of him. If you think about it like that, then the ep actually shames you for laughing along with Weldon the whole time. I feel that's part of the point of the ep as well generating some sympathy for Weldon at the same time. Also how loyalty between partners can be warped and go too far.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Bren10

[Bren10]

That was my point, Robbie. His holding the paper tells me he was deliberately posed post-mortem.

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Bren10 said:

That was my point, Robbie. His holding the paper tells me he was deliberately posed post-mortem.

I know. I was agreeing and reinforcing the point. 

[Tom]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Bren10:

I don't know that that follows, Tom. You think it's less cold blooded to bury somebody alive as opposed to shooting them? What's your definition of a mercy killing then? I'd be afraid to find out. 

. I did not say that - but pulling the trigger takes more „guts“ or brutality than walling someone in, go away and pretending to yourself that you did not kill him as he was alive and well when you left (Weldon’s logic not mine!). Also there are indications that Weldon developed different personalities or escaped from reality long time ago. He looked for Arcaro the whole time but had him walled in (later he called: I found Arcaro, come and book him). Ultimately I think his good side developed bad conscience and wanted to share his secret to get peace of mind.

[Bren10]

Weldon's disconnection from reality or developing other personalities could just as easily result in him becoming a cold-blooded killer and shooting someone. There are also indications that in the final scenes Weldon is play-acting for C & T's benefit and that he knows this story will ultimately end with his own apprehension. In other words, we are essentially watching a man go to lengths to set himself up to be arrested as a bizarre form of penance for what he has done. That tells me that he is not so crazy as to be literally looking for Arcaro in the house or Stiltsville, but he is playing it out. I think the final shot of him from behind reinforces this. This entire exercise was to make C & T understand how Weldon became so obsessive and crazy in the first place. Sonny basically confirms that with his reaction to Lang in the end. Without this journey Sonny's reaction isn't the same here. Weldon knows he himself has to go down in the end but he wants C & T to empathize and understand why, not just make an arrest. That tells me he is not entirely delusional but certainly wracked with guilt.

Btw, Tom, shouldn't you be a Captain by now?

Edited October 8, 2019 by Bren10

[jpaul1]

i see Arcado death as an accident. could be anything. pointing a gun that shots unintentionnally, heart attack while tied up, starvation.. but for me it's pretty much obvious it was an accident. because if it had been cold blooded the two cops wouldn't have crossed the ages with such a relative sanity. they would, at least Weldon, have committed suicide

i know cases irl though, where a cop did assassinate somebody and went through the ages without apparently not showing anything. but that a couple of cops teammates that did such thing, and cross the ages without remorse, i don't think this is possible

[Robbie C.]

I doubt it was an accident because of the nature of the way they dealt with the body. This is Florida; lots of swamps and gators to deal with a body. This is something more. 

[jpaul1]

they kidnap. then the thing goes wrong. and they fix it in the closest location

[Robbie C.]

10 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

they kidnap. then the thing goes wrong. and they fix it in the closest location

But they don’t pose the body. That alone speaks to deeper motive and motivation. If they have a car it’s an easy thing to find a swamp or waterway and dump the body. What they did takes preparation and forethought. 

[mjcmmv]

After seeing the interest and considering all the possibilities, It would be great to have a prequel!

No pressure, Robbie, but hey, this would be a blast for you to put together!

And we'd have a blast reading it!  

Edited October 8, 2019 by mjcmmv

[jpaul1]

the guy goes out of his trial. they (or Weldon alone) stalks him. during the proper moment, maybe at night in a moment of rage he kidnaps him. he ties Arcado up on a chair. then the story goes out of the path. the cadaver is there. Weldon has 10 seconds to decide what to do. he chooses to 'hide' him into a wall (maybe the kidnapping house). instead of taking the risk of a night car drive into a swamp, where the body could be eaten by a croc, or NOT. IMO this is totally plausible. maybe Weldon keeps the body near him, as a kind of metaphysical denial. like he refuses the accident. like if he wanted to find a (impossible) solution to the situation. the second Arcaro died, Weldon felt into madness. the whole episode is around Weldon denial of reality

Edited October 8, 2019 by jpaul1

[mjcmmv]

11 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

maybe Weldon keeps the body near him, as a kind of metaphysical denial. like he refuses the accident. like if he wanted to find a (impossible) solution to the situation. the second Arcaro died, Weldon felt into madness. the whole episode is around Weldon denial of reality

That sounds reasonable. As Robbie pointed out, OWTBDR screams Poe and his classic "Tell Tale Heart". Weldon's the murderer with the  overwhelming guilt and his conscience has driven him crazy. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by mjcmmv

[jpaul1]

i didn't understand half of the thing, but thanks for the like