Episode #25 "Out Where The Buses Don't Run"

[Vicefan7777]

16 hours ago, Mr. Calderon said:

In case of a reboot, crockett could be a new hank weldon crazy guy.

Now that is an episode I would like to watch! 

[Adrian321]

Definitely good, but a bit silly, and not one of my favourites.......... though a 10/10 (one of the 15 episodes in the series that, recieve a clean 10/10, not that "unclean" 9.5/10,ATLEAST for me)

The intro is so "shiny" let's say, and one of the few times where I actually like the filthy "Daytona"

We get a crazy-ass dude as a main character -and a great comic relief- he, as an actor, played his role quite well

We get a loosely tied to reality episode, from an event that took place in the 70's

We get the cold Castillo staredown

Style is all over the place, even Hank with that shirt contributed overall

Other comic relief elements, like Hank's attitude, his "Wife" (aka Lorraine)

Good music performance overall

We see the St Vitus Dance

And, finally, a good ending, but tbh, it's not that good as most people say...... atleast that is what I think; there are many more endings in the entire series that deliver a MUCH higher degree of emotion; this ending puts emphasis on the loyality of Hank's partner, HOWEVER......... who are our main cast ? Hank's partner, Hank himself ? NO....... I'd consider that Switek defending Zito for a murder or something like this would actually be "top notch" let's say, not about a complete stranger and a senile guy.........

Out of Evan and Out where the buses don't run, I actually choose "Evan", even if it is not as stylish, since the ending is much better, and the whole episode focuses more on the main characters, and less on some senile ex cop

 

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Adrian321 said:

Definitely good, but a bit silly, and not one of my favourites.......... though a 10/10 (one of the 15 episodes in the series that, recieve a clean 10/10, not that "unclean" 9.5/10,ATLEAST for me)

The intro is so "shiny" let's say, and one of the few times where I actually like the filthy "Daytona"

We get a crazy-ass dude as a main character -and a great comic relief- he, as an actor, played his role quite well

We get a loosely tied to reality episode, from an event that took place in the 70's

We get the cold Castillo staredown

Style is all over the place, even Hank with that shirt contributed overall

Other comic relief elements, like Hank's attitude, his "Wife" (aka Lorraine)

Good music performance overall

We see the St Vitus Dance

And, finally, a good ending, but tbh, it's not that good as most people say...... atleast that is what I think; there are many more endings in the entire series that deliver a MUCH higher degree of emotion; this ending puts emphasis on the loyality of Hank's partner, HOWEVER......... who are our main cast ? Hank's partner, Hank himself ? NO....... I'd consider that Switek defending Zito for a murder or something like this would actually be "top notch" let's say, not about a complete stranger and a senile guy.........

Out of Evan and Out where the buses don't run, I actually choose "Evan", even if it is not as stylish, since the ending is much better, and the whole episode focuses more on the main characters, and less on some senile ex cop

 

The craziness of Hank was supposed to be humorous to an extent...but there was a dark side to him as well. He was kind of scary in some ways...the ‘goofball’ was an act, to cover for a lot of other more disturbing issues going on. You never really knew what he was going to say, or do (it could be silly voices...or rage). To me this made his character that much more interesting...you have to look beyond or beneath the whackiness. 

I love the plot & ending...very emotional and “deep”, as we find out the whole truth. This is one of my favorite episodes of the show, but everyone has their likes & dislikes. However, #1 it was based off a true story (as was Shadow) in the Miami area from the 70s (so to me that makes it even ‘cooler’), and #2 this was listed in a 1997 TV Guide list of 101 best written/plot TV episodes, up to that time.  

[Robbie C.]

Hank's not senile in the least. He's actually quite calculating...setting up all the hits...managing to manipulate the squad into helping him take out the parts of Tony's crew he couldn't get to all those years ago. And I consider it superior to Evan on the whole because Evan's basic background premise doesn't line up with Crockett's background. This could easily have been Tubbs a few years from now...still obsessively chasing the Calderone clan (or Crockett for that matter, given his obsession with "The Columbian"). Evan was a one-off...this was similar to Heart of Darkness in terms of projecting a possible future for Crockett or Tubbs.

[Adrian321]

15 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

The craziness of Hank was supposed to be humorous to an extent...but there was a dark side to him as well. He was kind of scary in some ways...the ‘goofball’ was an act, to cover for a lot of other more disturbing issues going on. You never really knew what he was going to say, or do (it could be silly voices...or rage). To me this made his character that much more interesting...you have to look beyond or beneath the whackiness. 

I love the plot & ending...very emotional and “deep”, as we find out the whole truth. This is one of my favorite episodes of the show, but everyone has their likes & dislikes. However, #1 it was based off a true story (as was Shadow) in the Miami area from the 70s (so to me that makes it even ‘cooler’), and #2 this was listed in a 1997 TV Guide list of 101 best written/plot TV episodes, up to that time.  

I liked that Hank gave us a few laughs good with his character, and I don't deny that there weren't certain issues, though, they didn't have enough opportunity to be adressed unfortunately, and he was simply too silly sometimes, and you didn't kinda know what this episode is- a silly, lighthearted episode of MV, OR, a serious, deep episode. While this combination can create good stuff, it is also frustrating, as you can't take the episode too deep; you'll deny its funny essence- AND, you can't take this episode lighthearted; you'll deny its serious essence.

The intro is very nice, and the ending too, but the ending is, in my view, overrated. It doesn't even involve our main cast that much; just with the presence, and it wasn't a revenge, a pivotal moment, or something more emotional (in the good way, this time).

And yea, I  think it is a 10/10 for me since it is slightly tied to a real story, besides what it had to offer. I don't really care if it is the only listed MV episode in a TV Guide list of 101 best TV episodes, as I think there are atleast another 11 better episodes in the series of MV. That was the subjective opinion of the creator/s of that Guide list.

I enjoyed this episode too, however, out of Evan and this one, I pick Evan, that's for sure (since many fans like these 2 so much, and both are of the same 1st and 2nd season nature)

Edited February 20, 2021 by Adrian321
Forgot something

[Adrian321]

15 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Hank's not senile in the least. He's actually quite calculating...setting up all the hits...managing to manipulate the squad into helping him take out the parts of Tony's crew he couldn't get to all those years ago. And I consider it superior to Evan on the whole because Evan's basic background premise doesn't line up with Crockett's background. This could easily have been Tubbs a few years from now...still obsessively chasing the Calderone clan (or Crockett for that matter, given his obsession with "The Columbian"). Evan was a one-off...this was similar to Heart of Darkness in terms of projecting a possible future for Crockett or Tubbs.

Hank is........ more or less senile. I think "unstable" is the right word, since he is not that old at that time. Mentally unstable people can be quite smart. Psychos and/or bipolars are a good example of this type of person. They can be very smart, but are also mentally unstable-and quite dangerous. So was Hank. He had sudden swings in attitude, from being very friendly to being very offended, loudly sang in Tubbs' car so the bystanders can hear, "arrested" -in a wall, the suspect,  named his computer after his wife, etc.

I don't think a person like Hank can be considered mentally healthy. Also, Hank was institutionalized a few years prior. so this makes even more sense.

I consider "Evan" as an episode to be better (not by a huge margin) since it involved the main characters more, had a better ending, more emotional and overall-less weird. Of course, this one had its pros aswell, like that intro, the goofy nature, the style and athmoshpere.

[ViceFanMan]

16 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

I liked that Hank gave us a few laughs good with his character, and I don't deny that there weren't certain issues, though, they didn't have enough opportunity to be adressed unfortunately, and he was simply too silly sometimes, and you didn't kinda know what this episode is- a silly, lighthearted episode of MV, OR, a serious, deep episode. While this combination can create good stuff, it is also frustrating, as you can't take the episode too deep; you'll deny its funny essence- AND, you can't take this episode lighthearted; you'll deny its serious essence.

The intro is very nice, and the ending too, but the ending is, in my view, overrated. It doesn't even involve our main cast that much; just with the presence, and it wasn't a revenge, a pivotal moment, or something more emotional (in the good way, this time).

And yea, I  think it is a 10/10 for me since it is slightly tied to a real story, besides what it had to offer. I don't really care if it is the only listed MV episode in a TV Guide list of 101 best TV episodes, as I think there are atleast another 11 better episodes in the series of MV. That was the subjective opinion of the creator/s of that Guide list.

I enjoyed this episode too, however, out of Evan and this one, I pick Evan, that's for sure (since many fans like these 2 so much, and both are of the same 1st and 2nd season nature)

I actually don’t know if other MV episodes were listed somewhere at some point, as superbly written episodes too or not? They could have been?? But, I do know this one was. The plot in itself was captivating, as again you can’t take Hank’s silliness too ‘seriously’...as Robbie C said above, he was actually very intelligent and calculating! He was able to manipulate everyone to conform to his plan...that he’d even fooled himself into believing. Again, you have to go  beneath the craziness...there’s a fascinating dark side going on there. And yes, it’s based on a true story, so even though Evan is a good episode, I think this one is superior for various reasons. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Adrian321]

Just now, ViceFanMan said:

I actually don’t know if other MV episodes were listed somewhere at some point, as superbly written episodes too or not? They could have been?? But, I do know this one was. The plot in itself was captivating, as again you can’t take Hank’s silliness too ‘seriously’...as Robbie C said above, he was actually very intelligent and calculating! He was able to manipulate everyone to conform to his plan...that he’d even fooled himself into believing. Again, you have to go  beneath the craziness...there’s a fascinating dark side going on there. And yes, it’s based on a true story, so even though Evan is a good episode, this one is superior for various reasons. 

I think I can't convince you that Evan is better, but neither you can convince me that this is better.  "Subjectivity is the biggest enemy of objectivity that can't be countered, unless being unobjective". This sounds paradoxical, but also logical. We ran in this situation here many times.

I don't think Evan is better, BY A HUGE margin atleast, but, I frankly think it's better. And yes, "Out where the buses don't run" is the only MV episode cited in that list, from what I remember.

When you said "he'd even fooled himself into believing"-really adds to my argument that his character was very instable. If tricks were needed to make people belive his plans, then that means they were "not that plausible". Also, he is quite "silly" if he needed to fool himself into believing his OWN plans. I don't think that a mentally sane person needs to fool themselves in order to be able to belive what they created.

[Robbie C.]

Logically and objectively, Hank shows us what either Sonny or Rico could become if they let the Job take over their lives. Evan is an anomaly...and one that doesn't really fit with Crockett's canon background (someone who did two tours in Vietnam is hardly a "kid fresh out of the academy" as he claims in Evan). In terms of some of Vice's favorite meta-narratives (the human cost of police work to the cops involved) OWTBDR is more compelling by far. It also fits better with the kind of cases Vice/OCB would draw. I also think they make the meta-message very clear by the use of "Brothers in Arms" at the end.

Evan is a good episode mostly because (in my opinion) of the performance of Evan himself and the ambiguity of the ending (does Evan mean it's Crockett's turn to take a bullet or to redeem himself for his failure? We don't know.). Otherwise it's kinda meh. We don't even see Mike in a flashback. He's just a name (unlike how God's Work handled homosexuality and reality of the AIDS epidemic). But in OWTBDR we see what chasing the bad guy cost Hank...and what lengths he was willing to go to shut down the man's entire crime family. Much deeper in a meta sense.

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Adrian321 said:

I think I can't convince you that Evan is better, but neither you can convince me that this is better.  "Subjectivity is the biggest enemy of objectivity that can't be countered, unless being unobjective". This sounds paradoxical, but also logical. We ran in this situation here many times.

I don't think Evan is better, BY A HUGE margin atleast, but, I frankly think it's better. And yes, "Out where the buses don't run" is the only MV episode cited in that list, from what I remember.

When you said "he'd even fooled himself into believing"-really adds to my argument that his character was very instable. If tricks were needed to make people belive his plans, then that means they were "not that plausible". Also, he is quite "silly" if he needed to fool himself into believing his OWN plans. I don't think that a mentally sane person needs to fool themselves in order to be able to belive what they created.

Everyone has their opinions, likes & dislikes. That’s one of the interesting aspects to the site. 

I don’t believe anyone has ever said that Hank was mentally stable or sane! He most definitely was mentally unstable (however not senile). But, just because he was unstable did not mean he wasn’t calculating and intelligent! Again, the goofiness was an act to cover up his dark side & to keep his own mind from finally having to acknowledge what he’d done years before to Accaro. Crazy? Yes! Stupid? No!

The character of Evan to me was actually kind of pathetic. He wasn’t mentally unstable...not really. He chose to wallow in his own self pity until he chose to self destruct. But, he had plenty of opportunities and time to make amends and get it together. Instead he’s all about the ‘boo-hoo, poor me’. It’s an ok episode, but to me just not as interesting or intriguing as “Busses”. But, that’s just me! If you like the episode Evan better, that’s cool. 

[pahonu]

Senile is not the correct word to describe Weldon.  Senility has a pretty specific definition, namely exhibiting loss of memory because of advancing age.  Hank certainly did have mental illness of some type, and to a clinical level, as attested to by the treatment mentioned.  He didn’t seem to have forgotten anything about Arcaro as senility would suggest!  I completely agree that individuals with mental illness can be highly intelligent and even manipulative and calculating as was mentioned above.  All this makes the character very fascinating, much more so than anything in Evan in my view.

[ViceFanMan]

20 minutes ago, pahonu said:

Senile is not the correct word to describe Weldon.  Senility has a pretty specific definition, namely exhibiting loss of memory because of advancing age.  Hank certainly did have mental illness of some type, and to a clinical level, as attested to by the treatment mentioned.  He didn’t seem to have forgotten anything about Arcaro as senility would suggest!  I completely agree that individuals with mental illness can be highly intelligent and even manipulative and calculating as was mentioned above.  All this makes the character very fascinating, much more so than anything in Evan in my view.

Perfectly stated!  There could probably be several diagnosis’ that Weldon could have had...schizophrenia, Bi-Polar, Multiple Personality Disorder, all the above, etc... But, no, senile was not one. He was very cunning and intelligent...you never knew what he would say, do, or come up with! He was “whacky”...but in some ways it seemed he wanted you to think that. In reality there were motives and a plan (unrealistic as his goals may have been). He was funny, fascinating...yet kind of scary/creepy all at the same time. He and the plot itself “made” the episode...it was more about the plot than the visuals, too, which I find captivating as well. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[sdiegolo78]

On 6/11/2009 at 5:36 PM, Mr. Calderon said:

One of the few episodes which saved the Season 2.Unhopefully my original DVD has a bad quality imagem (shame on you Universal!)

Season 2 was great!

[sdiegolo78]

A true MV classic among fans and critics. Watching Bruce McGill as the mentally unstable yet entertaining 'Hank Weldon' is a treat. Funny when he just walked into the OCB floor and Castillo's office like he still belonged there to the puzzlement of the the detectives.

What i like about this episode, it's relatively lighthearted yet it is quite deep. The story of Weldon going crazy after becoming obsessed with his most important case, Arcaro being released for technicality, the futility, frustration and strain from many years working in the streets and undercover were definitely an early premonition of what will slowly unfold in the future episodes and seasons for C&T.

[ViceFanMan]

46 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

A true MV classic among fans and critics. Watching Bruce McGill as the mentally unstable yet entertaining 'Hank Weldon' is a treat. Funny when he just walked into the OCB floor and Castillo's office like he still belonged there to the puzzlement of the the detectives.

What i like about this episode, it's relatively lighthearted yet it is quite deep. The story of Weldon going crazy after becoming obsessed with his most important case, Arcaro being released for technicality, the futility, frustration and strain from many years working in the streets and undercover were definitely an early premonition of what will slowly unfold in the future episodes and seasons for C&T.

Agreed...a superbly written and acted episode! It’s humorous and goofy...yet very “deep” and serious. A definite classic! 

[sdiegolo78]

Yes, a classic like many earlier episodes during the first two seasons. This episode has the second season feeling/vibe to it for the reasons above. I really liked some quotes from Sonny: "what's this concept of making me nervous?", "try goofball" when helping Tubbs with the password and "if you don't beat it pal you might to heaven right now" during the intro .

Noteworthy the Ocean Club restaurant scene where Crockett is chasing the killer who shot Costanza. He's seen jumping on a table and stomping on a lobsters platter with his expensive loafers

PS: Bruce McGill is actually a year younger than DJ and PMT but looked senior enough to play the part of an older ex-cop.

[Mr. Calderon]

7 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Season 2 was great!

It wasnt. It was disapointing.The best episodes: buses, payback and sons and lovers.

But...the actors seem found a more relaxed and natural tone on their roles.

 

Season1 was the best, but many bad acting and childish/cheese scenes. Not really a fault from the actors, maybe a fault from who wrote the episodes and who directed the episodes.

 

But what would happen to the s2 if everybody could love it, after all?

[ViceFanMan]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Calderon said:

It wasnt. It was disapointing.The best episodes: buses, payback and sons and lovers.

But...the actors seem found a more relaxed and natural tone on their roles.

 

Season1 was the best, but many bad acting and childish/cheese scenes. Not really a fault from the actors, maybe a fault from who wrote the episodes and who directed the episodes.

 

But what would happen to the s2 if everybody could love it, after all?

Season 2 was the best! They had finally figured out & fixed the quirks, and ironed out all the proverbial wrinkles from Season 1...including some cheesy or silly acting early on (after the Pilot). But I agree, that was probably more from the writing & they were still trying to figure out what directions to take the show. 

But Season 2 had the best episodes/plots, acting, colors, fashion, everyone seemed “relaxed” and had found their role/part, it just rocked! I love Season 1...but 2 was better. 

[ViceFanMan]

7 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Season 2 was great!

Definitely...2 was the best! 

[Dadrian]

5 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Definitely...2 was the best! 

I love season 2 and 3 so much, but 1 is my desert island Miami Vice  

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, Dadrian said:

I love season 2 and 3 so much, but 1 is my desert island Miami Vice  

I love Season 1, and it’s the beginning...but there’s just something about Season 2 that just brings it all together! Everyone has their favorite season and/or episodes...one of the most iconic shows of the 80s & television!  

[sdiegolo78]

13 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I love Season 1, and it’s the beginning...but there’s just something about Season 2 that just brings it all together! Everyone has their favorite season and/or episodes...one of the most iconic shows of the 80s & television!  

I'd say season 1 established the show, its characters and the tone pretty well. Season 2 perfected it and added more notable guest stars as the series started to become a global hit from summer '85.

Edited February 26, 2021 by sdiegolo78

[sdiegolo78]

17 hours ago, Dadrian said:

I love season 2 and 3 so much, but 1 is my desert island Miami Vice  

Season 3 was also great although it lost momentum towards the end. What i dislike about this season is Zito's death.

[Dadrian]

3 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Season 3 was also great although it lost momentum towards the end. What i dislike about this season is Zito's death.

Same here! 

We are trailing off, though.  

If you haven’t already, search for the “favorite season” threads. They are very interesting. Everybody likes to weigh in on those. 

Back to “Buses”, I’m always happy when this one rolls around in the rotation. Just brilliant. 
 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Dadrian

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I'd say season 1 established the show, its characters and the tone pretty well. Season 2 perfected it and added more notable guest stars as the series started to become a global hit from summer '85.

 

3 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Season 3 was also great although it lost momentum towards the end. What i dislike about this season is Zito's death.

You stated it perfectly!!  Season 1 established everyone, but Season 2 definitely perfected it! Zito’s Death is definitely a downfall for Season 3 for me, too. “Busses” is a perfect example of why Season 2 was MV perfection!  

Edited February 26, 2021 by ViceFanMan