Robbie C. Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: Hackman didn’t “reach” for it...it was already in his hand, he just had the magazine over it to try and hide it. Im not wild about Crockett going vigilante and losing-it...that came in the next episode (and ultimately bombed), so I don’t have a problem with him being shown to be justified at the last minute. But, again...Sonny going psycho came pretty quick, anyway. I'd refer anyone interested back to this thread: Page 4 on. We NEVER see Hackman pull a gun, or any gun for that matter until after Hackman is dead. That's the fact on the screen. Ambiguous by design. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: I'd refer anyone interested back to this thread: Page 4 on. We NEVER see Hackman pull a gun, or any gun for that matter until after Hackman is dead. That's the fact on the screen. Ambiguous by design. Hackman already had the gun in hand...there was no rush or quick-reach for it. His hand with the gun was just covered up or somewhat “masked” by the magazine—or he tried to hide it that way. But Crockett saw it before Hackman got a shot off, and fired first. I realize there are some that don’t like the justifiable-shoot with the gun scene...but like it or not it’s there. I’m not debating whether it was or was not the right thing for the episode...just acknowledging it was done, whether we like it or not. But, this thread is probably not the place for this discussion (again) . There’s at least 2 other threads that specifically deal with that episode and gun-scene aspect. (P.S. “Confused” emojis don’t make it any less true. ) Edited April 13, 2021 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 19 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: Revisited this episode again. Before I even start, I’ll just say—absolute 10!! This is an episode that just captivates me every time...it’s one I can watch over & over, and still find it fascinating! The plot (as was "Shadow In the Dark") was based on an actual case & in my opinion that makes this episode even better...everyone gives stellar performances!! I especially love Bruce McGill's performance as Hank Weldon, and his whacky mental issues--he was goofy & humorous...but still intelligent and cunning at the same time! Despite the imitations & crazy voices...he had a plan & definite motives. He could have you rolling in laughter (or rolling your eyes ) one minute, the next he’s deadly serious or enraged...and sometimes actually kind of scary —but in a fascinating way! I love when he tries to first shake Castillo's hand and does that shaking of his head and cartoon-like noises of "shaking it off" or "waking up." Castillo’s facial expression is priceless! The music was awesome too--especially at the end and the action was superb! But, again the thing I love most is how the plot evolves & draws you in...it’s whack-a-doodle and hilarious on the proverbial top...but underneath there’s really some very “dark” and disturbing things going on, here! You never knew what Hank was gonna say or do...and I’ll be honest, the first time I saw this episode I actually did think you were supposed to think Acaro was dead and Hank was just a nut-job---while in reality he was right all along, and at the end Acaro would "pop" out of the woodwork (oops...pun intended!) and really would be alive! But, it turns out...he was basically just ‘Boris Karloff’ on vaca in Miami. Very emotional and deep, as we find out & learn the whole truth. “Buses” was just something totally different, but still totally Miami Vice...one of my favorite episodes of not only Season 2, but of the entire show as well! It was included in a 1997 TV-Guide list of 101 best episodes of television. So, crack a bottle of clam juice (), sit back, and enjoy watching what Crockett’s bizarre form of “6th sense” turns out to be. Just don’t mess with Lorraine...stay away from that woman, ya hear!! Returning back to “Buses”....I want to know how Hank always had the most up-to-date info on the other drug dealers? Now of course he tried to still make it seem like Arcaro was secretly behind it all...but other than that, he was spot-on. Was he going around following them like he was C&T at the beginning? It just seemed like Weldon always had the inside scoop, that none of Vice did at whatever moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: Returning back to “Buses”....I want to know how Hank always had the most up-to-date info on the other drug dealers? Now of course he tried to still make it seem like Arcaro was secretly behind it all...but other than that, he was spot-on. Was he going around following them like he was C&T at the beginning? It just seemed like Weldon always had the inside scoop, that none of Vice did at whatever moment. Because he was fixed on them. Had his own intel from back in the day, so he knew who they were. He wanted wrap up all of Arcaro's people, and remained focused on them until Vice did the arresting for him. You forget...he didn't need warrants or anything like that to gather information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Robbie C. said: Because he was fixed on them. Had his own intel from back in the day, so he knew who they were. He wanted wrap up all of Arcaro's people, and remained focused on them until Vice did the arresting for him. You forget...he didn't need warrants or anything like that to gather information. I figured he probably was keeping tabs on them, and I didn’t forget that he himself didn’t worry about warrants, as he wasn’t a cop anymore. But, because of that there would be a huge chance that anything he came up with would be inadmissible in court. But, he was more obsessed with supposedly trying to get Arcaro, so he probably wasn’t really thinking about that aspect. It just seemed kind of silly to me, that Hank seemed to know everything yet the rest of Vice was totally in the dark. But, it had to be for the episode, and this is one of my all-time favorites! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: I figured he probably was keeping tabs on them, and I didn’t forget that he himself didn’t worry about warrants, as he wasn’t a cop anymore. But, because of that there would be a huge chance that anything he came up with would be inadmissible in court. But, he was more obsessed with supposedly trying to get Arcaro, so he probably wasn’t really thinking about that aspect. It just seemed kind of silly to me, that Hank seemed to know everything yet the rest of Vice was totally in the dark. But, it had to be for the episode, and this is one of my all-time favorites! Not silly at all. The Arcaro organization, as far as Vice knew, was inactive. They had all kinds of other cases to focus on, while Hank had just one. Makes total sense he'd know more in very focused aspects than they would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRemington Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said: Returning back to “Buses”....I want to know how Hank always had the most up-to-date info on the other drug dealers? Now of course he tried to still make it seem like Arcaro was secretly behind it all...but other than that, he was spot-on. Was he going around following them like he was C&T at the beginning? It just seemed like Weldon always had the inside scoop, that none of Vice did at whatever moment. I’m thinking that Hank knew everything about the drug dealers because of his computer knowhow. This isn’t realistic, but I think it was a common at the time (and even now), that people thought people with computers knew everything... but this could be disproved. I think people thought/think computers know everything. Edited April 14, 2021 by AndrewRemington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Robbie C. said: Not silly at all. The Arcaro organization, as far as Vice knew, was inactive. They had all kinds of other cases to focus on, while Hank had just one. Makes total sense he'd know more in very focused aspects than they would. Part of that would make sense, as Hank was solely focused on the Arcaro organization, whereas OCB probably had several other cases they were working too. But, they knew the Arcaro business was still active...just run by other people who were originally Arcaro’s main guys. C&T were trying to do surveillance on some of the “Arcaro” lower-line people/dealers at the beginning. They just knew Arcaro himself had been dead for years, and it was other people running everything. But, Hank seemed to always have the inside scoop...but maybe he’d been watching the Arcaro people more closely during that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 32 minutes ago, AndrewRemington said: I’m thinking that Hank knew everything about the drug dealers because of his computer knowhow. This isn’t realistic, but I think it was a common at the time (and even now), that people thought people with computers knew everything... but this could be disproved. I think people thought/think computers know everything. You could be right...people used to think if you put info in a computer, it’ll automatically come up with the right answers. However, people are still behind the info...so the computer is only as smart as the people operating it and/or have programmed it. But, even Hank revealed ‘Lorraine’ didn’t know everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 Lorraine really fixed Hank’s place up! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 I don´t know whether this was discussed before, but it is interesting how many different terms for "crazy" there were used to describe Weldon during this episode. Just to name a few I remember: Out where the buses don´t run off the wall (this was also the working title for this episode) stone cold crazy I am sure I forgot several others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 Am 14.4.2021 um 03:24 schrieb ViceFanMan: Lorraine really fixed Hank’s place up! Hank´s place is in an important architecture style area of Miami (e.g. "MiMo") and this house often pops up in google searches accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Tom said: Hank´s place is in an important architecture style area of Miami (e.g. "MiMo") and this house often pops up in google searches accordingly. Do you know the architect? I learned a bit about Morris Lapidus and Miami Modernism on an episode of Bob Vila where they were remodeling a Miami condominium in a tower he designed. Bob toured the Fountainebleau and Eden Roc, if I recall correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Tom said: I don´t know whether this was discussed before, but it is interesting how many different terms for "crazy" there were used to describe Weldon during this episode. Just to name a few I remember: Out where the buses don´t run off the wall (this was also the working title for this episode) stone cold crazy I am sure I forgot several others... Yes, ‘off the wall’ was the original working title...not sure why they changed it, but ‘out where the buses don’t run’ works, too—and they had Tubbs say that phrase in the episode. “Follow the whacko” was also stated by Crockett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) vor 1 Stunde schrieb pahonu: Do you know the architect? I learned a bit about Morris Lapidus and Miami Modernism on an episode of Bob Vila where they were remodeling a Miami condominium in a tower he designed. Bob toured the Fountainebleau and Eden Roc, if I recall correctly. No, sorry, not for this house. But here you find more info about "Miami Modern" (MiMo) and some important houses and their architects. That MiMo area is mainly around Design District and up on Biscayne from there. This house is 4400 NE 2 Ave, which is exactly there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Modern_architecture Edited April 15, 2021 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Tom said: Hank´s place is in an important architecture style area of Miami (e.g. "MiMo") and this house often pops up in google searches accordingly. Very 30s/40s Art Deco! It was built in 1941, I believe. I love the style, but in the mid west it’s not the architectural style much where I live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) vor 9 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan: Very 30s/40s Art Deco! It was built in 1941, I believe. I love the style, but in the mid west it’s not the architectural style much where I live. Yes, most Art Deco in Miami was built between the late 20s and early 40s. But I thought this house is, architecture-wise (I´m not an architect of course, but I read a lot for location hunting purposes), not exactly Art Deco, but "MiMo" (Miami Modern) which is a bit later (post-war!) and different in style (more modern so to speak in small aspects). But I have checked and it was built in 1940 exactly which would make it Art Deco then by period at least. I added a wiki link above MiMo with more infos. Edited April 15, 2021 by Tom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahonu Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 Architectural styles, like most styles really, blend into each other as a continuum, rather than discreet styles. There are certainly examples that have come to epitomize certain styles during peak popularity, but the majority of buildings have several influences. The years that historians use to define a styles popularity are fairly fluid. As you get near the end of one style’s popularity and the rise of another, the line can become very blurred. This homes seems to fit in that transitional area. One of the simple differences I’ve noticed between Miami Art Deco and MiMo is in detailing. Art Deco tends to have more applied ornament, typically geometric lines, while MiMo which was influenced by the International Style, has more interesting form and mass shapes. This apartment seems to have the latter influence in the unique circular window shapes and the the horizontal door hoods and balconies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted April 18, 2021 Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 On 4/14/2009 at 8:35 PM, Tommy Vercetti said: 'Love Reign O'Er Me' (probably my favourite Who song) Mine's Won't get fooled again and Substitute- some great lyrics. Wasn't that keen on the one they did use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted April 18, 2021 Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 On 4/15/2009 at 1:39 AM, Tony D. said: Listening to the lyrics of "Brothers in Arms," I was wondering if the episode was written to the song's words! The episode, especially the ending is so descriptive, of the song. After Marty Lang tells Crockett that Weldon was his partner, the relevence of what that means is apparent to everyone. Cops, soldiers, even firemen are brothers in arms. They protect each other & would give their lives for each other. When I hear the song" Brothers in Arms" I will always think of Weldon & this fantastic ending. That song sums up Sonny especially I think. His real life is his job and his closest bonds are with these "brothers in arms". Other parts of life and other relationships will always come second. He gave up his marriage, a wife he was supposed to love and a son supposedly equally beloved, choosing to pursue this life which truly epitomised his real self. That's the truth of it. Not surprisingly, no post-marriage relationships ever worked out. There were indications that even the Caitlin one wouldn't have done so in the end. That's why I find the Freefall episode disappointing and unsettling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 On 4/15/2021 at 5:08 PM, Tom said: No, sorry, not for this house. But here you find more info about "Miami Modern" (MiMo) and some important houses and their architects. That MiMo area is mainly around Design District and up on Biscayne from there. This house is 4400 NE 2 Ave, which is exactly there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Modern_architecture not listed in Shulman-Robinson-Donnelly Miami architecture. so very likely a poor interest house on an architecture level. even if i find it pretty nice personnally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 vor 1 Minute schrieb jpaul1: not listed in Shulman-Robinson-Donnelly Miami architecture. so very likely a poor interest house on an architecture level. even if i find it pretty nice personnally Can you post a link here for that Shulman directory you mentioned? Sounds new to me. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Tom said: Can you post a link here for that Shulman directory you mentioned? Sounds new to me. Thanks! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6959359-miami-architecture it's not a quite book, it's more an encyclopedia. buy it only if you have a high interest in Miami architecture 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apocalypse Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 For me this is the greatest episode in Miami Vice, along with "Forgive Us Our Debts". The ending is probably the best ever in ANY show. It's just TV history. Gives me chills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 9 hours ago, apocalypse said: For me this is the greatest episode in Miami Vice, along with "Forgive Us Our Debts". The ending is probably the best ever in ANY show. It's just TV history. Gives me chills. This is definitely one of the best episodes of the series...way better than even “Forgive Us Our Debts”, in my opinion!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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