Episode #25 "Out Where The Buses Don't Run"

[pahonu]

2 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

not necessarily true.  lot of big drug dealers keep their earnings in cash. they buy a property, and hide their money in it. it's the option that actually gives the bigger chances to recover the money after governmental investigations

Cash is absolutely still king... in the actual criminal activity.  However, if someone tries to purchase a home, for example, with actual currency, that’s an immediate red flag on the transaction.  Some people pay cash for homes and cars, etc... but those are digital transactions, not suitcases full of bills.  Again, that’s a big red flag.  
 

Even for digital transactions, since the 70’s, US law requires a broad range of institutions to notify the US Treasury of cash transactions above $10,000.  Look up the Bank Secrecy Act.  That’s why there is so much effort in organized crime to launder money.  Successfully doing so allows for all later transactions to avoid high level scrutiny.  The money is effectively no longer ill-gotten gains.

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, pahonu said:

Screwed up with Amato, but it’s  actually Tony Arcaro, with two R’s.  By the way, there was a real guy named Tony Accardo who headed the Chicago Outfit into the 80’s, I think.  The IRS opened a case against him also. 

This is actually my favorite episode, and I remembered the discussion on the boat when you brought it up on the thread.  Ownership or not, by Arcaro or Weldon, isn’t really the point, but I had never assumed ownership.  The obsession by Hank being voiced by Tubbs is the key.  Why though did Tubbs tell Hank that Arcaro lived in the building, rather than it was Arcaro’s building or that Arcaro owned the building?  It’s just not clear that he owned it no matter his wealth.  Is it made clear that Hank bought the building or did he just rent?  I don’t recall.  Finding out it was Arcaro’s place of residence is no harder for law enforcement than finding out the owner of the building. 
 

Dismissing tax evasion as an old Capone era tactic isn’t quite accurate either.  It’s still routinely prosecuted in organized crime cases.  The RICO statute, of course, provided other avenues.  Many wealthy and powerful individuals have gone to prison even with the best attorneys at their disposal.  So have many well-known people not a part of organized crime.

I have seen the name spelled so many ways over the years, lol...I got my episode back out to see for sure (as IMDB doesn’t even list the guy who portrayed Tony in past flashbacks). According to the episode, it’s actually Arcaro, with one r...although some sites or others misspell it with two r’s at the end. But, I was misspelling it by leaving out the first r, after the A. Too many r’s!!  MV-wiki does spell it correctly...just FYI.

I’m not sure if the character-name was based off a real person, but the episode itself was based on a real life case. 

 I never really questioned before who actually owned the building that Arcaro had lived in, that Hank eventually did. By Tubbs’ comment it’s pretty self-explanatory it was once Arcaro’s building (that he lived in), and that’s why Weldon now lives there. That was important in the episode to show how obsessed Hank still was with the Arcaro case...but other than that, I was only responding on that particular point as another member had questioned it.

 I didn’t mean that convicting someone on tax evasion was no longer done, or old, or out of style by referring to it as the Capone thing. It’s just a famous way that law-enforcement at one time convicted a famous criminal. Anyone can be convicted of that if there’s enough evidence for the courts. 

However, that was not done with Tony Arcaro, nor did it have anything to do with Arcaro owning property—which he obviously did. Lots of criminals and/or drug dealers own property...especially the filthy rich (pun intended ) ones. Arcaro was never convicted of a crime, and liked to flaunt it...that’s what basically drove Weldon over-the-edge. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[pahonu]

18 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I have seen the name spelled so many ways over the years, lol...I got my episode back out to see for sure (as IMDB doesn’t even list the guy who portrayed Tony in past flashbacks). According to the episode, it’s actually Arcaro, with one r...although some sites or others misspell it with two r’s at the end. But, I was misspelling it by leaving out the first r, after the A. Too many r’s!!  MV-wiki does spell it correctly...just FYI.

I’m not sure if the character-name was based off a real person, but the episode itself was based on a real life case. 

 I never really questioned before who actually owned the building that Arcaro had lived in, that Hank eventually did. By Tubbs’ comment it’s pretty self-explanatory it was once Arcaro’s building (that he lived in), and that’s why Weldon now lives there. That was important in the episode to show how obsessed Hank still was with the Arcaro case...but other than that, I was only responding on that particular point as another member had questioned it.

 I didn’t mean that convicting someone on tax evasion was no longer done, or old, or out of style by referring to it as the Capone thing. It’s just a famous way that law-enforcement at one time convicted a famous criminal. Anyone can be convicted of that if there’s enough evidence for the courts. 

However, that was not done with Tony Arcaro, nor did it have anything to do with Arcaro owning property—which he obviously did. Lots of criminals and/or drug dealers own property...especially the filthy rich (pun intended ) ones. Arcaro was never convicted of a crime, and liked to flaunt it...that’s what basically drove Weldon over-the-edge. 

Being my favorite episode as I said, how much do you know about the real life case?  I’ve never actually researched it.  Dropped the ball there as a fan!  

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, pahonu said:

Being my favorite episode as I said, how much do you know about the real life case?  I’ve never actually researched it.  Dropped the ball there as a fan!  

This is one of my favorite episodes of the whole show, too (I have a few that equal that). But, I too don’t know as much about the real-life case? I know “Shadow In the Dark” was also based on a real case, written about by a former cop. But, as for this one, I’d love to know the details! I just know this episode is also based on a real case...based being the ‘cue-word’,  as who knows what was part of the real story, and what was added or created for this episode to make it entertaining? 

[ViceFanMan]

“Hey...anybody gotta newspaper? Some pastel-punk just swiped mine!”  

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

This is one of my favorite episodes of the whole show, too (I have a few that equal that). But, I too don’t know as much about the real-life case? I know “Shadow In the Dark” was also based on a real case, written about by a former cop. But, as for this one, I’d love to know the details! I just know this episode is also based on a real case...based being the ‘cue-word’,  as who knows what was part of the real story, and what was added or created for this episode to make it entertaining? 

 

"The Shadow" was based on Richard Chase I think.

Could even be based on Ramirez as well.

Obviously he wasn't as brutal as those two but he might have been eventually. 

[ViceFanMan]

5 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

 

"The Shadow" was based on Richard Chase I think.

Could even be based on Ramirez as well.

Obviously he wasn't as brutal as those two but he might have been eventually. 

Maybe...I’d not heard it was Ramirez? I’m not sure of the real-life psycho’s name...but in different posts under the “Shadow” thread throughout the years, I believe the cop who wrote about it is named. 

[pahonu]

4 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

 

"The Shadow" was based on Richard Chase I think.

Could even be based on Ramirez as well.

Obviously he wasn't as brutal as those two but he might have been eventually. 

It was the summer before I started high school living in the San Gabriel Valley here SoCal when the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, went on his killing spree.  I remember the fear in that hot summer very clearly.  Several years later after marrying, I learned that a coworker of my mother in law was one of his victims.  She and my wife were traumatized by the events for quite some time.  

[ViceFanMan]

29 minutes ago, pahonu said:

It was the summer before I started high school living in the San Gabriel Valley here SoCal when the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, went on his killing spree.  I remember the fear in that hot summer very clearly.  Several years later after marrying, I learned that a coworker of my mother in law was one of his victims.  She and my wife were traumatized by the events for quite some time.  

I’ve seen & watched many documentaries on the ‘Night Stalker’ case...crazy, freaky, and tragic! However, I’ve not ever heard or read that either the “Shadow” or “Buses” episodes of MV (although both were based on real-life cases) had anything to do with Richard Ramirez. I could be wrong, but I’m thinking both of those episodes were based off other cases/perpetrators. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[pahonu]

10 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I’ve seen & watched many documentaries on the ‘Night Stalker’ case...crazy, freaky, and tragic! However, I’ve not ever heard or read that either the “Shadow” or “Buses” episodes of MV (although both were based on real-life cases) had anything to do with Richard Ramirez. I could be wrong, but I’m thinking both of those episodes were based off other cases/perpetrators. 

I’ve never heard anything like that either, but when it was brought up, the memories came back immediately.

[RedDragon86]

10 hours ago, pahonu said:

It was the summer before I started high school living in the San Gabriel Valley here SoCal when the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, went on his killing spree.  I remember the fear in that hot summer very clearly.  Several years later after marrying, I learned that a coworker of my mother in law was one of his victims.  She and my wife were traumatized by the events for quite some time.  

Must of been terrifying living through that moment.

I watched the documentary on Netflix and thought it was way too stylized and it focused way too much on the lead detectives, who's police work didn't catch him, he was caught on a fluke.  We never really learnt anything about Richard's upbringing and they left out a key point to where his urge to kill came from, his evil cousin Miguel ("Mike") Ramirez who himself already become a serial killer and a rapist in Vietnam and he would show and share all his gruesome picture's and stories to Richard who was only 12 years old.

[RedDragon86]

10 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I’ve seen & watched many documentaries on the ‘Night Stalker’ case...crazy, freaky, and tragic! However, I’ve not ever heard or read that either the “Shadow” or “Buses” episodes of MV (although both were based on real-life cases) had anything to do with Richard Ramirez. I could be wrong, but I’m thinking both of those episodes were based off other cases/perpetrators. 

I think the Ramirez case would have been in the back of Chuck Adamson's mind while he was writing it and he was a former sergeant detective.

Richard Ramirez home invasion's were more notable than Richard Chase. 

The Night Stalker and Shadow in the Dark, very similar description of their killers.

Edited June 28, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

8 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I think the Ramirez case would have been in the back of Chuck Adamson's mind while he was writing it and he was a former sergeant detective.

Richard Ramirez home invasion's were more notable than Richard Chase. 

The Night Stalker and Shadow in the Dark, very similar titles.

Perhaps, but I’ve not ever heard that the real case “Shadow” was based off of was Ramirez...and as famous as the ‘Night Stalker’ case was, I’d think they’d want to advertise that to get people to watch. The titles are creepy (on purpose), but not necessarily take-offs or copies of each other. However, if it is Ramirez, or whatever real-life case...it’d be interesting to know. 

I’d also like to know what case this episode (“Buses”) is based on...as we’ve gotten off on “Shadow” here. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

10 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Perhaps, but I’ve not ever heard that the real case “Shadow” was based off of was Ramirez...and as famous as the ‘Night Stalker’ case was, I’d think they’d want to advertise that to get people to watch. The titles are creepy (on purpose), but not necessarily take-offs or copies of each other. However, if it is Ramirez, or whatever real-life case...it’d be interesting to know. 

Maybe it was just loosely based on him?

This isn't a fact either but M the 1931 film by Fritz Lang has been said, by various critics and reviewers to be based on serial killer Peter Kurten "the Vampire of Düsseldorf" whose crimes took place in the 1920s. There could be some truth in a good theory

Edited June 28, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

13 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Maybe it was just loosely based on him?

This isn't a fact either but M the 1931 film by Fritz Lang has been said, by various critics and reviewers to be based on serial killer Peter Kurten "the Vampire of Düsseldorf" whose crimes took place in the 1920s. There could be some truth in a good theory

I don’t know...maybe Ramirez inspired part of it, but I’ve not ever heard that. It’d be interesting to know what case it was based on—or if it was several cases? As for Peter Kurten, I’ve not seen the 31 film before but have heard of it. The 1995 thriller Copycat involves a psycho copying multiple past serial killers...even referencing or copying Peter Kurten. 

[pahonu]

3 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Must of been terrifying living through that moment.

I don’t really watch much about serial killers, probably because it does bring up bad memories.  I was a stupid teenager who felt pretty invulnerable, but thoughts crept into my head because the fear was everywhere.  Oddly, the thing I remember most was that everyone was advised to close and lock all their windows at night and it was a sweltering summer.  We only had a small window AC in our living room and I remember trying to sleep on the couch after many nights waking up sweaty in my bed.  One time I opened up my bedroom window to feel the cool night air and my mother gave me hell the next morning.  My wife was about 10 years old and said she slept on the floor next to her mom’s bed for weeks.  

[ViceFanMan]

Not sure about “Shadow”, but I don’t think “Buses” was based off a serial killer...but I’d like to know what case & what the real-life case entailed, compared to the episode. 

[RedDragon86]

20 hours ago, pahonu said:

I don’t really watch much about serial killers, probably because it does bring up bad memories.  I was a stupid teenager who felt pretty invulnerable, but thoughts crept into my head because the fear was everywhere.  Oddly, the thing I remember most was that everyone was advised to close and lock all their windows at night and it was a sweltering summer.  We only had a small window AC in our living room and I remember trying to sleep on the couch after many nights waking up sweaty in my bed.  One time I opened up my bedroom window to feel the cool night air and my mother gave me hell the next morning.  My wife was about 10 years old and said she slept on the floor next to her mom’s bed for weeks.  

That is some rough sh*t to experience, surreal really.

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

I knew some people who were in the Wichita area back when the whole BTK thing was going on...even walked by a house late one night, that they learned the next day, Dennis Rader (BTK) was killing people in at the time they had been walking by. 

When I was growing up, there was a time for a while I couldn’t sleep, and a lot of times felt like I was being watched. I never saw anything, but just felt like someone was watching...usually at night (but sometimes during the day). My parents just thought I had an overactive imagination (which I still do )

However, around this same time in my town, there was some weird guy dressed up in some “ninja” like outfit going around watching people & people’s homes—he’d been seen but never caught. Sounds kinda funny...until he started chasing & attempting to attack people at night. He was finally caught, and when police searched his house they found lists of addresses/houses he liked to stalk/watch and/or window peep the most...our address was one of them!

Was my subconscious knowing I was being watched (if I actually was)...or was it just my imagination by watching creepy episodes of shows like “Shadow” or “Buses” of MV?  Who knows...but, let’s be glad BTK, Night Stalker, and most other serial killers are either in prison for life...or dead now themselves. 

(P.S. My brother works in the prison that BTK and other psychos & killers now reside...including John E. Robinson, the Carr brothers, and some others. He’s had to escort BTK & the Carrs at different times to different parts of the prison. Pretty creepy to me!)

Returning to the episode...I would actually like to know if the real-life case “Buses” is based on actually included a dead gangster behind a wall & a crazy cop who tricked his mind into thinking he was still alive? 

Edited June 29, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

11 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I knew some people who were in the Wichita area back when the whole BTK thing was going on...even walked by a house late one night, that they learned the next day, Dennis Rader (BTK) was killing people in at the time they had been walking by. 

When I was growing up, there was a time for a while I couldn’t sleep, and a lot of times felt like I was being watched. I never saw anything, but just felt like someone was watching...usually at night (but sometimes during the day). My parents just thought I had an overactive imagination (which I still do )

However, around this same time in my town, there was some weird guy dressed up in some “ninja” like outfit going around watching people & people’s homes—he’d been seen but never caught. Sounds kinda funny...until he started chasing & attempting to attack people at night. He was finally caught, and when police searched his house they found lists of addresses/houses he liked to stalk/watch and/or window peep the most...our address was one of them!

Was my subconscious knowing I was being watched (if I actually was)...or was it just my imagination by watching creepy episodes of shows like “Shadow” or “Buses” of MV?  Who knows...but, let’s be glad BTK, Night Stalker, and most other serial killers are either in prison for life...or dead now themselves. 

(P.S. My brother works in the prison that BTK and other psychos & killers now reside...including John E. Robinson, the Carr brothers, and some others. He’s had to escort BTK & the Carrs at different times to different parts of the prison. Pretty creepy to me!)

Returning to the episode...I would actually like to know if the real-life case “Buses” is based on actually included a dead gangster behind a wall & a crazy cop who tricked his mind into thinking he was still alive? 

BTK was one strange individual. I think he got caught by his own sloppiness, a floppy disk or something that had evidence on it.

[ViceFanMan]

31 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

BTK was one strange individual. I think he got caught by his own sloppiness, a floppy disk or something that had evidence on it.

Kind of...I think he was wanting to get caught in a way, as he wanted back in the media spotlight. He gave some old disk to the cops (anonymously) after they’d stated the disk couldn’t be traced. In today’s world everyone knows most of all that can be traced...and BTK was not dumb. 

[RedDragon86]

16 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Kind of...I think he was wanting to get caught in a way, as he wanted back in the media spotlight. He gave some old disk to the cops (anonymously) after they’d stated the disk couldn’t be traced. In today’s world everyone knows most of all that can be traced...and BTK was not dumb. 

He wanted to serve the rest of his life prison?

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

He wanted to serve the rest of his life prison?

 

I’m not sure he really cared about that. Whether in prison or not, he wanted the media attention and to once again be in the limelight...whether he got away with it longer or got caught, either way he knew he was going to make & be in the news. He loved the trial & national media attention, and all the documentaries on his case. 

[Jack Gretsky]

This is my 2nd favorite of the second season. (What, oh, what is my #1 favorite? Could there be any clues in my profile?)  The Who's "Baba O'Reilly" is one of my all-time great rock tracks.  I know I'm not alone.  Great cameo by Little Richard and his moonie-like disciples.  I love the girl with the defense instincts - I'm guessing she was a street kid before Little Richard brought her into the fold?

Bruce McGill is hilarious in the early scenes, heartbreaking by the end.  When he does that old sea dog character to Castillo, and Martin just stares at him - I almost do myself an injury because I'm laughing so hard.  If you've ever seen the first scene of Lolita Peter Sellers does a similar jumping from one voice impersonation to another in a nervous situation.  It's easy to imagine Switek acting this way years later to two younger cops!

David Strathairn, in an early role, is excellent as Weldon's ex-partner on the force, holding a shocking secret.  I'm not big on Dire Straits, but their "Brothers in Arms" works beautifully in the lead-up to the grisly, sad revelation.  There's a great smooth tracking shot as we follow, from a bit above,  Crockett and Tubbs as they drive through the night streets.  "Kind of a tired old man.  I guess he's glad it's all over": Weldon re Arcaro.  Or, really, himself. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[Miami Beau]

Superb episode. The acting all round is very high and the only let down for me, was that there wasn’t enough David Strathairn scenes. 
 

I recently posted a video on my YouTube channel regarding Dennis Hopper’s planned involvement with this episode. Having Hopper in the Weldon role would of been interesting to see.