Episode #23 "The Prodigal Son"

[sdiegolo78]

2 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

(it was almost like they could only be intelligent cops in Miami...step outside & suddenly they’re floundering/flopping around like chickens with their heads cut off),

LMAO . Maybe their brains switched off the moment they left Dade County area. The air from different places perhaps not good enough for them?

[sdiegolo78]

6 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said:

What would you have called this one, for instance?

"The original hangover from the 80s " or "Obsessed with Valerie and looking Miguel" or "Me, Sonny, Val in NY"

[wolfie1996]

1 minute ago, sdiegolo78 said:

"The original hangover from the 80s " or "Obsessed with Valerie and looking Miguel" or "Me, Sonny, Val in NY"

At least you came up with some titles! I couldn't think of any! 

[ViceFanMan]

37 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

LMAO . Maybe their brains switched off the moment they left Dade County area. The air from different places perhaps not good enough for them?

Lol...it definitely seemed so in this episode (although when they went other places, including out of the country, in other episodes they didn’t act this dumb)...and the air in NYC isn’t probably good for anyone! 

[Robbie C.]

6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

There was really no need for Tubbs to do that because they had a big connection through Jimmy Borges, plus they other link was Sacco via Valerie. I really don't see how Tubbs old contacts could have made a difference, they already knew what they were going after and had links. 

When/if Borges falls through, Tubbs could have dialed up something or someone else. They were floundering even with Borges. If nothing else he could have tapped an old contact or one of Raphael's former associates in Narcotics for more current intel. Ya gotta think three moves ahead, and Tubbs' contacts could have allowed that if the episode had been written as something other than "Florida hayseed goes to the big city."

[RedDragon86]

12 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

When/if Borges falls through, Tubbs could have dialed up something or someone else. They were floundering even with Borges. If nothing else he could have tapped an old contact or one of Raphael's former associates in Narcotics for more current intel. Ya gotta think three moves ahead, and Tubbs' contacts could have allowed that if the episode had been written as something other than "Florida hayseed goes to the big city."

Once the deal with Borges fell through Crockett and Tubbs track Revilla's shipment, steal it, and blow up their warehouse, then the meet is set. 

I just don't see the use of old help if they can find ways to do it themselves, and they did. Its like lets get intel on what we already know just for the sake of it. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

Once the deal with Borges fell through Crockett and Tubbs track Revilla's shipment, steal it, and blow up their warehouse, then the meet is set. 

I just don't see the use of old help if they can find ways to do it themselves, and they did. Its like lets get intel on what we already know just for the sake of it. 

But, they’re operating in a city that one hasn’t been in for quite a while & the other never had been. As a former cop there, you wouldn’t just go do it yourself with no help or at least an attempt to get help...since they didn’t fully know what was going on and/or with who. Tubbs would’ve & should’ve gotten with his old contacts and buddies from the start, let alone after they blow up some warehouse. The fact that he didn’t was ridiculous & unbelievable. Again, he might as well of been as much of a tourist as Crockett. 

[RedDragon86]

22 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

But, they’re operating in a city that one hasn’t been in for quite a while & the other never had been. As a former cop there, you wouldn’t just go do it yourself with no help or at least an attempt to get help...since they didn’t fully know what was going on and/or with who. Tubbs would’ve & should’ve gotten with his old contacts and buddies from the start, let alone after they blow up some warehouse. The fact that he didn’t was ridiculous & unbelievable. Again, he might as well of been as much of a tourist as Crockett. 

But they had the assistance of the NYPD to begin with. 

The meet is instantaneous once the warehouse has been destroyed so why ask for his buddies to get involved, back up? now that would be silly as their superiors wouldn't like that or for that matter risking their lives just as a favor to Tubbs.

If they were out of their depth or its too dangerous then Metro-Dade shouldn't have sent them there in the first place.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

34 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

But they had the assistance of the NYPD to begin with. 

The meet is instantaneous once the warehouse has been destroyed so why ask for his buddies to get involved, back up? now that would be silly as their superiors wouldn't like that or for that matter risking their lives just as a favor to Tubbs.

If they were out of their depth or its too dangerous then Metro-Dade shouldn't have sent them there in the first place.

 

 

They figured out pretty quick that they didn’t have the cooperation of the NYPD (as a whole)! So Tubbs should have definitely attempted to use his old friends and/or contacts (on the force) to help them or give them some info (personally or on the side). This would be before they try and go do things on their own...not really knowing what was going on (including before they blow up crack-houses). 

They were out of their depth for sure...but they should’ve known how to handle & deal with the situation more intelligently and way better than they did.

 

[RedDragon86]

56 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

They figured out pretty quick that they didn’t have the cooperation of the NYPD (as a whole)! So Tubbs should have definitely attempted to use his old friends and/or contacts (on the force) to help them or give them some info (personally or on the side). This would be before they try and go do things on their own...not really knowing what was going on (including before they blow up crack-houses). 

They were out of their depth for sure...but they should’ve known how to handle & deal with the situation more intelligently and way better than they did.

 

Hypothetically what if they headed to Chicago to bring down a drug operation? who have been their back up? of course  (CPD) I don't think Burr or Castillo sanctioned their two main detectives on the basis that Tubbs knew people there. The NYPD let them down.

The way I see it they made some risky moves and were lucky to be going home. 

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

Hypothetically what if they headed to Chicago to bring down a drug operation? who have been their back up? of course  (CPD) I don't think Burr or Castillo sanctioned their two main detectives on the basis that Tubbs knew people there. The NYPD let them down.

The way I see it they made some risky moves and were lucky to be going home. 

The NYPD was supposed to be their backup and support...but they discovered almost from the start that the force didn’t want them there & was actually against them...but they didn’t know why.

Since supposedly Tubbs had come from there, I’d definitely think that Castillo would plan on, and C&T would plan on, utilizing past connections & friends once they got there. That’s a “duh” moment for all of them...that would have been the intelligent move to start with!

Now, if those friends or connections turned out to be corrupt too, so be it—they’d find that out as the episode progressed. But, they’d at least attempt to get info & “direction” from them. 

[wolfie1996]

16 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

"Florida hayseed goes to the big city."  Now THERE'S a title.....

 

[sdiegolo78]

4 hours ago, wolfie1996 said:

"Florida hayseed goes to the big city."  Now THERE'S a title.....

"A hayseed and a half"

[fakespyder]

4 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

The NYPD was supposed to be their backup and support...but they discovered almost from the start that the force didn’t want them there & was actually against them...but they didn’t know why.

Since supposedly Tubbs had come from there, I’d definitely think that Castillo would plan on, and C&T would plan on, utilizing past connections & friends once they got there. That’s a “duh” moment for all of them...that would have been the intelligent move to start with!

Now, if those friends or connections turned out to be corrupt too, so be it—they’d find that out as the episode progressed. But, they’d at least attempt to get info & “direction” from them. 

Just an idea:

Tubbs may not have been the most popular guy at his old place of work. If we take s3 "Better Living through chemistry" into account, other cops he once knew may have seen him poorly for not backing up his partner.

I guess what I'm saying is there are plenty of reasons he and Crockett had to go it alone. Not knowing who to trust and not wanting to risk their covers.

[ViceFanMan]

42 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

Just an idea:

Tubbs may not have been the most popular guy at his old place of work. If we take s3 "Better Living through chemistry" into account, other cops he once knew may have seen him poorly for not backing up his partner.

I guess what I'm saying is there are plenty of reasons he and Crockett had to go it alone. Not knowing who to trust and not wanting to risk their covers.

True, I’m sure there were other cops there that for whatever reason/s didn’t like Tubbs.  Plus, a good portion of the department obviously turned out to be corrupt.  However, there would still be other cops, friends, or some people that Tubbs would feel like he could turn to or ask at least. It’s not like the whole city hated Ricardo Tubbs.  

Even if they ultimately ended up having to do a good portion of it alone, they still would’ve at least attempted to get some information or direction so to speak from some people that Tubbs had known, at first. And “how” Crockett and Tubbs went about doing it “alone”, was what was also really ridiculous & seemed very dumb. 

[RedDragon86]

I am so glad that I appreciate it differently. 

I would hate to have a problem with it.

Edited April 27, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

I am so glad that I appreciate it differently.

Well, that one never appreciated anything.   But, as for the MV episodes we all have our likes & dislikes, for various & different reasons. It’s all cool to discuss & digress!   

Edited April 27, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

13 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Well, that one never appreciated anything.   But, as for the MV episodes we all have our likes & dislikes, for various & different reasons. It’s all cool to discuss & digress!   

That's true, we all think different.

I really love that one

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

That's true, we all think different.

I really love that one

It’s not terrible or a dud by any means (in my opinion Season 2 didn’t have a dud ), I just wasn’t impressed & was actually more disappointed with it. There are other episodes in the season that were more worthy of a 2hr premiere. But, to each his or her own.  

[fakespyder]

I'm surprised to hear to that. I thought it was a great start to the season and one of my favorite episodes.

That opening where the shots ring out across the jungle and C&T stare back at the tent: I had never seen a shot composed that way before and backed by Jan's haunting cue.

The show only got better from there. The swamp shootout and Castillo on the bow of the boat, Gina injured, Gene Simmons, NY, shootouts galore. And most importantly the sense of two cops alone against the dealers (both drug and business).

I love it.

[ViceFanMan]

27 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

I'm surprised to hear to that. I thought it was a great start to the season and one of my favorite episodes.

That opening where the shots ring out across the jungle and C&T stare back at the tent: I had never seen a shot composed that way before and backed by Jan's haunting cue.

The show only got better from there. The swamp shootout and Castillo on the bow of the boat, Gina injured, Gene Simmons, NY, shootouts galore. And most importantly the sense of two cops alone against the dealers (both drug and business).

I love it.

There were some good scenes...especially the beginning with the jungle...and Gene Simmons was awesome! He should have been brought back in other episodes. The music used, especially Jan Hammer’s, was also awesome! 

But, after that initial awesome start...then it starts to go downhill, and to me it ultimately falls flat on its proverbial face—even with the gun battles. The episode could have still been done, but in my opinion it wasn’t worthy of a 2hr season premiere. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[fakespyder]

Fair enough. We'll have to disagree on this one

[ViceFanMan]

7 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

Fair enough. We'll have to disagree on this one

It’s all good...this is one that some people love...some people don’t.  

[Matt5]

6 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

It’s all good...this is one that some people love...some people don’t.  

So true 

[RedDragon86]

9 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

There were some good scenes...especially the beginning with the jungle...and Gene Simmons was awesome! He should have been brought back in other episodes. The music used, especially Jan Hammer’s, was also awesome! 

But, after that initial awesome start...then it starts to go downhill, and to me it ultimately falls flat on its proverbial face—even with the gun battles. The episode could have still been done, but in my opinion it wasn’t worthy of a 2hr season premiere. 

The scene with Julian Beck was intriguing, I was surprised NBC were allowed to film that scene because we know that sort of stuff goes in government especially in the Reagan administration. 

One of the key things I like about is that its showing you that its the politicians/ people at the top that are dirty, not necessarily the drug dealers themselves.