Episode #1 "Brother's Keeper"

[ViceFanMan]

On 12/11/2022 at 12:18 PM, sdiegolo78 said:

I started another MV re-watch last night after catching up with the much more recent shows.

Watching 'brother's keeper' feels like watching a feature movie the way it was shot and the excellent photography. And my bluray rip being the one long episode (not split in two parts) makes it more enjoyable.

Getting back to Crockett and Tubbs once again after some time feels like a reunion with old friends from high school. Or catching up with your first love after many years :-)

The Sonny - Scotty Wheeler confrontation made me think about Hank vs Walt in breaking bad during the garage scene. Scotty has even a son name after himself (like Walt).

I'm sorry for stating the obvious for those who experienced it first hand, let me just say in retrospect this pilot (and of course the following series episodes) must have been mind blowing for the early/mid eighties TV audience. MTV played a role too in the shaping of MV for that young and fresh vibe in the show.

As previously mentioned, lately I've been catching up with more recent shows and watching Vice again feels a bit thin on the character development and story telling side of things. Mind you I don't want to compare shows from different decades. However, from a 1980s standard and viewpoint MV did set new benchmarks in the police drama, not to mention photography, soundtrack, fashion etc. And at the time it was one of the few tv shows in its genre to introduce some character development and story arcs (i.e Calderone, Lombard, Frank Mosca and Hackman).

 

 

Awesomely put! And, you’re right...it was purposely shot/filmed as more like a feature film, than television. Which back then was a fairly new concept, as TV was still considered low-budget at that time & did not typically have the capabilities to make something that could have been released to theaters! 

The Pilot (and subsequently the series) forever changed television, in my opinion! MV paved the way for utilizing all new styles & techniques never seen before, as well as higher budget, for TV. The only other TV show pilot, besides MV’s, that I can think of, that had the same kind of impact on viewers with things never seen or done before on TV, was the CSI Pilot episode in 2000. In my opinion, both shows were “pioneers” of television, and in their own ways/styles forever impacted how TV was/is done. 

The MV Pilot was originally aired as a TV movie, and called just...“Miami Vice”. I happen to have a 1984 original uncut/unedited NBC airing of the Pilot that I had transferred to DVD several years ago. Although it isn’t “digitally remastered”, it’s superb & my favorite way to watch it! But, the home video sets by Universal, Mill Creek, and Elephant Films are amazing, too. 

The whole “Brother’s Keeper” title was created later, when it was sadly split into 2 parts for syndicated reruns. But, Universal (and subsequently what they made available to the other companies & countries) took the 2 parts and put them back together for their DVD & Blu-ray sets, to try and restore the Pilot to its original 2hr format as much as possible.

However, all the episodes (by all companies & countries—despite what some try to claim) are syndicated copies, and are edited/cut from the original airings to some degree. I’m pretty sure Universal used TVLand’s versions for their original DVD sets...and subsequently these are what all the other companies used as well for their DVDs & Blu-rays.

But, Mill Creek & Elephant Films did a superb job of digitally restoring the show of how it originally looked & was meant to look, for Blu-ray!  They’re amazing & totally worth getting!! Although the original Universal season DVD sets are older than the Blu-rays...they too are still pretty darn awesome! 

MV is a show I usually like to watch in the spring and/or summer...and summer of ‘21, I went through my original airings, and last spring/summer (of ‘22) I went through my Blu-ray set. I haven’t watched my Universal season DVD sets in many years...for fun, this next spring I may have to get those out & go through them again. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by ViceFanMan

[sdiegolo78]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:52 PM, RedDragon86 said:

Watching the pilot last night he looked and sounded just like him.

One of the FBI guys in 'Heart of Darkness'...Petrocelli suit

[RedDragon86]

Does anybody know what department this is because it's nothing like OCB we see in "Heart of Darkness" 

Lou's office is in a different place as well.

Is it simply the case of changing the set?

 

[Tom]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb RedDragon86:

Does anybody know what department this is because it's nothing like OCB we see in "Heart of Darkness" 

Lou's office is in a different place as well.

Is it simply the case of changing the set?

 

Easy to explain. In the pilot they used a real office location at the Miami River for OCB (we have address here in the forum). Once the series was ordered, they moved for filming episodes to Greenwich Studios for building the OCB set there. Thus pilot has totally different OCB than all following episodes. 

[Dadrian]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

Easy to explain. In the pilot they used a real office location at the Miami River for OCB (we have address here in the forum). Once the series was ordered, they moved for filming episodes to Greenwich Studios for building the OCB set there. Thus pilot has totally different OCB than all following episodes. 

Dang. The one time I was gonna be right, and I chickened out.  

[Matt5]

The best introduction to a series. 10 out of 10.

The locations used were authentic NYC locations in Brooklyn and TriBeCa, Manhattan. The Miami locations ranged all over Miami and 1 hour north to Lauderdale - by - the - Sea a beautiful town I am here today. It’s so quiet and deserted this last nite (Leon’s murder scene and the beach scene was filmed here back in the spring of 1984). 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Matt5

[Jack Gretsky]

I'm beginning a rewatch tonight.  I can't believe how long it's been since my last one - 2021 (that's when I did a review for every episode.)

One little touch I noticed this time was right in the first scene where the NYC punks are harassing Tubbs and he tells them to "beat it."  One of the punks instantly links that phrase to the Michael Jackson song that had been a huge hit the year earlier.  It's almost like a sly realization of the combo of "MTV" and "cops" which was this show's high concept.

Also, has anyone mentioned that Pink Bikini Girl has a twin sister in sky-blue in that same scene?

Edited September 5, 2023 by Jack Gretsky

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Jack Gretsky said:

I'm beginning a rewatch tonight.  I can't believe how long it's been since my last one - 2021 (that's when I did a review for every episode.)

One little touch I noticed this time was right in the first scene where the NYC punks are harassing Tubbs and he tells them to "beat it."  One of the punks instantly links that phrase to the Michael Jackson that had been a huge hit the year earlier.  It's almost like a sly realization of the combo of "MTV" and "cops" which was this show's high concept.

Also, has anyone mentioned that Pink Bikini Girl has a twin sister in sky-blue in that same scene?

For real a twin sister? Also, in later reruns & the original season DVD sets, the pink bikini suddenly became orange!  Thankfully the Blu-ray sets have since corrected this, and the bikini is once again pink.  

[Jack Gretsky]

6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

For real a twin sister? Also, in later reruns & the original season DVD sets, the pink bikini suddenly became orange!  Thankfully the Blu-ray sets have since corrected this, and the bikini is once again pink.  

Yes.  Look at that scene again and you'll see an identical girl, but wearing a blue bikini, standing with the crowd!  

(I'll try to do a sceenshot later when my computer starts behaving again.  lol)

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, Jack Gretsky said:

Yes.  Look at that scene again and you'll see an identical girl, but wearing a blue bikini, standing with the crowd!  

(I'll try to do a sceenshot later when my computer starts behaving again.  lol)

I knew about the pink/orange bikini debacle, but I haven’t really ever noticed another twin in a blue one before…I’ll have to check that out!  

[Jack Gretsky]

This is the screen shot.  I indicated the two ladies by dumb-looking arrows because the focus is so bad! 

 

[ViceFanMan]

10 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said:

This is the screen shot.  I indicated the two ladies by dumb-looking arrows because the focus is so bad! 

 

Cool! I have an original NBC 1984 uncut airing of the Pilot…I’ll have to look at this scene more closely! 

[NeonHumidity]

The parts where Crockett is (gasp) wrinkled and really unshaven with terrible sunglasses and looks like an actual beach bum could have killed this show alone, I swear.  You notice that they never let Sonny look that sloppy again.  Why ruin the asset...?

Facetiousness and being shallow aside, the conversation he has with Gina on the St. Vitus Dance is remarkably resonant through the entire series.

• Gina will never buy his façades.  Or at least the façades and nothing else.  Maybe that's why he likes her and can't let go.
• he'll always be married/trying to be married/on the rebound somehow, and less aware of his deeper feelings...
• everything will be disastrous for both his "nervous system" and his marriages; the remains of the first and the eventual second.
• does he ever forget who he is?  darlin', sometimes he remembers who he is.

Probably only mildly significant that she's the one all in white so he's got a night-in-shining-armor suit on instead.   (Or like she's him, and he's the mirror.  There's a pretty good dose of symbolism somewhere.)

Edited January 28 by NeonHumidity

[ViceFanMan]

11 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said:

The parts where Crockett is (gasp) wrinkled and really unshaven with terrible sunglasses and looks like an actual beach bum could have killed this show alone, I swear.  You notice that they never let Sonny look that sloppy again.  Why ruin the asset...?

Actually, in order to see what real life Vice detectives did & looked like on the job, Don Johnson went on some ride-alongs with the real cops. He saw that they were unshaven & sometimes unkept (such as wrinkled clothes)...especially by the next morning.

So he purposely went into a reading looking like that, and from then they always had him somewhat unshaven…the famous Crockett trademark stubble, and his linen jackets & shirts were sometimes disheveled & wrinkled.

One of the wardrobe ladies from the first couple seasons even said once, that she would take the shirts Don/Crockett was to wear the next day, and the night before just kind of wad them up & throw em in a corner. The next day they were looking like the out all night/disheveled look they wanted. 

This was to keep some realism, as he’d been up & out all night dealing with scum & low-lifes…although real life Vice cops did not wear thousand dollar clothes & drive Ferraris. 

[NeonHumidity]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

Actually, in order to see what real life Vice detectives did & looked like on the job, Don Johnson went on some ride-alongs with the real cops. He saw that they were unshaven & sometimes unkept (such as wrinkled clothes)...especially by the next morning.

So he purposely went into a reading looking like that, and from then they always had him somewhat unshaven…the famous Crockett trademark stubble, and his linen jackets & shirts were sometimes disheveled & wrinkled.

One of the wardrobe ladies from the first couple seasons even said once, that she would take the shirts Don/Crockett was to wear the next day, and the night before just kind of wad them up & throw em in a corner. The next day they were looking like the out all night/disheveled look they wanted. 

This was to keep some realism, as he’d been up & out all night dealing with scum & low-lifes…although real life Vice cops did not wear thousand dollar clothes & drive Ferraris. 

I still think there's a marked difference between the way DJ looks in the notably crumpled pink blazer and ridiculous sunglasses vs. the carefully casual gleaming Sonny of the rest of the series.  No way crumpled pink blazer, messy hair guy manages to become a memetic fashion icon; I'd be surprised if anyone here ever tried for that look.

When the blazer does reappear in other episodes, like Don, it's much more smoothed out.

[ViceFanMan]

41 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said:

I still think there's a marked difference between the way DJ looks in the notably crumpled pink blazer and ridiculous sunglasses vs. the carefully casual gleaming Sonny of the rest of the series.  No way crumpled pink blazer, messy hair guy manages to become a memetic fashion icon; I'd be surprised if anyone here ever tried for that look.

When the blazer does reappear in other episodes, like Don, it's much more smoothed out.

Yeah, the bigger, bulkier aviator sunglasses Crockett wore in the Pilot (which originally aired as just Miami Vice—the Brother’s Keeper title was created later when the pilot was split into 2 parts for syndication), were not as cool at all. They introduced his trademark tortoise shell Ray Ban Wayfarers pretty quick afterwards.  

The pink blazer was used in other episodes, but perhaps not as rumpled or wrinkled. They may have decided to “smooth” out some of the disheveled look…but, there purposely was always some wrinkles with Crockett’s look. Macy’s even had a whole line of MV styled clothes for young men by Season 2. It was popular enough, for sure.

Personally, I don’t notice a huge difference in the “wrinkles” between the Pilot and at least the first couple seasons. The biggest difference was again, the sunglasses—which was definitely a needed change, and over the course of the series the hair styles/lengths change.

His disheveled appearance in the pilot is also more realistic & understandable. It doesn’t bother or deter me at all…it sort of added a needed “grittiness” to the character & what he dealt with on a daily/nightly basis. But, they may have decided it was a little too much, and toned it down once the regular series got going. 

[Dadrian]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Yeah, the bigger, bulkier aviator sunglasses Crockett wore in the Pilot (which originally aired as just Miami Vice—the Brother’s Keeper title was created later when the pilot was split into 2 parts for syndication), were not as cool at all

ViceFanMan from the top rope!! 

[ViceFanMan]

13 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

ViceFanMan from the top rope!! 

Sorry, I don’t care for aviator style sunglasses…I much prefer the Wayfarer style!  

[NeonHumidity]

7 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Sorry, I don’t care for aviator style sunglasses…I much prefer the Wayfarer style!  

I mean, Tubbs wears the larger ones/same brand at different points, doesn’t he?  They’re just not as flattering on Crockett.  
 

and probably could have killed the show.

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, NeonHumidity said:

I mean, Tubbs wears the larger ones/same brand at different points, doesn’t he?  They’re just not as flattering on Crockett.  
 

and probably could have killed the show.

Tubbs also wears aviators some too. I don’t care who wore them, personally I don’t care for that style. But that’s just me.

However, despite that fashion played a big part…the show was still WAY bigger than that! No style of any sunglasses on anyone would have “killed” it, or come close.

It still came down to poor writing & abandoning the characterization originally set up, bizarre episodes, and poor production (mostly by Dick Wolf & his team, once he took over in Season 3) that ultimately got it cancelled.

[NeonHumidity]

15 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Tubbs also wears aviators some too. I don’t care who wore them, personally I don’t care for that style. But that’s just me.

However, despite that fashion played a big part…the show was still WAY bigger than that! No style of any sunglasses on anyone would have “killed” it, or come close.

It still came down to poor writing & abandoning the characterization originally set up, bizarre episodes, and poor production (mostly by Dick Wolf & his team, once he took over in Season 3) that ultimately got it cancelled.

Aside from going way outside the scope of the one episode; yes, I do think if they had kept slovenly-looking realistic Crockett as opposed to ultra-cool Sonny everyone either wanted to stare at, imitate, or both, the show would not have gained nearly such status and traction.

That pilot had to be picked up, first of all, and the show did struggle early on (like most do), to the point "Calderone Returns" was written to wrap up the show and its storylines if it got canned.

When things are hanging in the balance, your star is Don Johnson, and one of the major points of the show is "aesthetics", it's counterproductive to make him look like a bum or give him the unflattering sunglasses, and they really never did it again.  Even when the show was a hit, even when Sonny was strung-out, even when he was messed up emotionally, even when he was in the ICU after multiple major thoracic surgeries and transfusions, he managed to look better than he did in the pilot.

YMMV.

[ViceFanMan]

14 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said:

Aside from going way outside the scope of the one episode; yes, I do think if they had kept slovenly-looking realistic Crockett as opposed to ultra-cool Sonny everyone either wanted to stare at, imitate, or both, the show would not have gained nearly such status and traction.

That pilot had to be picked up, first of all, and the show did struggle early on (like most do), to the point "Calderone Returns" was written to wrap up the show and its storylines if it got canned.

When things are hanging in the balance, your star is Don Johnson, and one of the major points of the show is "aesthetics", it's counterproductive to make him look like a bum or give him the unflattering sunglasses, and they really never did it again.  Even when the show was a hit, even when Sonny was strung-out, even when he was messed up emotionally, even when he was in the ICU after multiple major thoracic surgeries and transfusions, he managed to look better than he did in the pilot.

YMMV.

The first season, like most shows, has wrinkles to iron out. I think they were trying to test and see what styles and things worked best & which ones didn’t…but, I don’t think one style of sunglasses would have caused the show to fail.

In fact, despite that the first season as a whole wasn’t a huge hit immediately…the Pilot TV movie itself was popular & definitely noticed! It was something that hadn’t been done before, at that time.

I’ve actually never heard or read about any complaints regarding Crockett’s wardrobe or sunglasses in the Pilot before…or clear through Season 2. It wasn’t until Season 3 when Dick Wolf tried to do away with the pastels & tried to have Crockett wear these bulky looking Persol sunglasses, that there were complaints.

But, despite fashion issues, they still weren’t enough to ruin or “kill” the show. What caused the show to die was poor & bizarre episodes & abandoning the characterization that had already been put in place before Wolf took over. Even over colors of jackets & styles of sunglasses…fans still cared most about the characters. 

[Robbie C.]

I think it's also important to remember that Yerkovich's influence was still a major factor in Season 1, especially the pilot. They also might not have had the money available at that time to make it "flashy." Yerkovich came from Hill Street Blues, which was tilted heavily in the "realistic" direction. Mann had done Vega$ (among other things), which wasn't really spun in that direction. Assuming a show with two rather different influences like that would emerge fully-formed in the pilot is, frankly, not realistic. Shows that do (The Shield, the Hawaii Five-0 reboot, Justified, Gunsmoke, to give some examples) tend to have a single creator (or a team with a shared vision, which is what I think happened with Five-0).

[RedDragon86]

In the pilot Sonny did look sharply dressed in his white and silver, shiny suit.

I actually like those dark brown Carrera 5512s sunglasses, he looked cool 

Edited January 28 by RedDragon86

[Dadrian]

7 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I actually like those black Carrera 5512s sunglasses, he looked cool 

They were actually dark brown