Episode #1 "Brother's Keeper"

[mjcmmv]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:29 PM, RedDragon86 said:

That's correct and he is also in "Lombard" as a courtroom clerk.

Wow, this guy got around! I always though it was interesting to see how many times they used the same actors for different roles, especially the bad guys. And for some reason, it was acceptable. The only "repeater" who threw me off was Martin Ferrero playing Trini DeSoto in the pilot and Izzy, later on!

[Crockettt]

I think the producers never counted on fans watching these episodes a hundred times and we wouldn't notice.

[Robbie C.]

11 hours ago, Crockettt said:

I think the producers never counted on fans watching these episodes a hundred times and we wouldn't notice.

This wasn't unusual at the time. Dragnet reused criminals all the time, and even now if you watch you'll see the same people popping up on Blue Bloods, then NCIS LA and then Law and Order SVU. They have more shows to choose from, but it's the same supporting actors making the rounds.

[mjcmmv]

41 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

This wasn't unusual at the time. Dragnet reused criminals all the time, and even now if you watch you'll see the same people popping up on Blue Bloods, then NCIS LA and then Law and Order SVU. 

I didn't realize that! Interesting...

[Robbie C.]

1 minute ago, mjcmmv said:

I didn't realize that! Interesting...

Yeah. There's a guy who played one of the Marines in Generation Kill who's shown up in NCIS and SVU. And a guy who's a renegade CIA operative showed up as a DA's investigator in Blue Bloods. And one episode of Criminal Minds actually had two actors from The Shield.

[mjcmmv]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Yeah. There's a guy who played one of the Marines in Generation Kill who's shown up in NCIS and SVU. And a guy who's a renegade CIA operative showed up as a DA's investigator in Blue Bloods. And one episode of Criminal Minds actually had two actors from The Shield.

LOL!! So, MV using actors over and over wasn't all that unusual! I need to sharpen my observation skills!! I watch those shows and I really didn't notice this!

Edited July 4, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Robbie C.]

They usually show up in secondary roles and may not be around for more than an episode or two. But it's really strange sometimes, especially if you're used to seeing the actor in a kind of signature role and then he pops up somewhere else. 

[ViceFanMan]

Almost all shows from the 50s clear up through even the very early 2000s, had the same actors guest star in multiple episodes as different characters. In fact, with shows like MV it was “the thing” to get to guest star (especially more than once) on a popular crime or drama TV show at the time. Murder She Wrote was another show that had lots of famous actors guest star in multiple episodes as different characters. Nowadays they don’t do that much anymore...and usually well known actors only guest star once, unless that same character they played is continued on in more than one episode. 

[Dadrian]

Andy Griffith reused guest stars a lot. 

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

Andy Griffith reused guest stars a lot. 

Perry Mason did too...as did the original Hawaii Five-0. 

[Robbie C.]

Sure. Studios had stables of actors back then. You use who you had on hand. You still see it today, but it's the second string. Steady character types, even Lou Diamond Phillips on more than one occasion. You also find video game voice actors showing up a lot now. Seen quite a few from LA Noir showing up in things.

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

Lou Diamond Phillips

Was he on more than one episode of Vice, or did you mean something else?

[Robbie C.]

46 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Was he on more than one episode of Vice, or did you mean something else?

Something else. Criminal Minds. 

[Mr. Calderon]

Mmmmm...more than 20 years away...and only today i found out that "disneyworld bridge" scene is out of sync. Probably a voice over recorded in a studio or mistake made by the editor ?

[Adrian321]

My 5th favourite episode in the entire series AND, the best S1 had to offer to us, in my view. 10/10

It is one of the 3 double lenght episodes (that are made to be this way, unlike the 2 parter episodes, that can be considered a long lenght episode, but are truly separate)

"In the air tonight scene"- the most popular single scene in the series

We get the beggining of the Calderone saga

We get introduced to the MV style for the 1st time

Nice Crockett-Tubbs chase there

Entertaining music

We get Billy, Caroline and a look at Crockett's 2nd partner, Eddie

Action over the place, from the start, 'till the end

Unique intro sequence

We get a few sequences outside Miami

That St Vitus dance scene where we see that fight, and Elvis for the 1st time

Nice job with those lines "Reporting for duty, Sir"-Tubbs to Crockett; "Hey, Tubbs...ever consider a career in Southern law enforcement?"-"Maybe, maybe...."

I guess 80-90% of all fans hold a similar opinion  about this masterpiece.

 

[zachbmarsh]

I just happened to post my thoughts about "Brother's Keeper" on letterboxd before discovering these forums, but I'll try and elaborate a little bit.

I really, really like "Brother's Keeper". It has a hell of an opening scene, and like the best of pilots, it feels mostly like a regular episode of the larger show.

With that being said... this time around I don't think it's quite an all-time great episode of Miami Vice. It definitely has some pacing issues - it's too bad the concept of 90-minute airtime episodes didn't exist back in '84, so as to give us ~65 minutes of runtime rather than the 96 we got, which feels padded, or the normal 48, which would have felt too rushed and incomplete.

Crockett and Tubbs are, like, ROCK solid from the jump. There's little - if any - adjustment to the way these two characters are performed or written. I love that we get the scene of Sonny busting his former partner. We get his morals laid out for him on day one, and that's basically who he is. And then Tubbs is his usual playful - but serious about the job - self.

I guess I maybe just feel like a little bit too much is going on throughout the episode. Leon, Trini Lopez, Scottie Wheeler... those characters each, I think, get a little bit too much screentime. Especially Wheeler. They give away SO quickly that he's the leak, and as a result you just spend the entire episode against the guy. Make us trust him more. Put us in Sonny's shoes a bit longer rather than making us constantly one step ahead.

That being said, Sonny taking down Scotty does lead to the "In the Air Tonight" sequence. There is nothing I can possibly say about that scene that hasn't already been said. In four minutes, television changed forever. I'm not so hot on the shootout after, or on Tubbs going full tilt with a shotgun right after taking a bullet in the shoulder, but Calderone's escape is a pretty good setup for his return.

If the entire episode was as good as the "In the Air Tonight" sequence, then "Brother's Keeper" would probably be an episode of television to rival the likes of "Final Grades" from The Wire, or "Ozymandias" from Breaking Bad. As it is, though, again I think this is a really good Miami Vice episode but I also think better was yet to come. 7.5/10 for me.

EDIT: Also, no one seems to have pointed this out from what I've seen online, but the version on the Blu-ray set (plays as the full-length cut, not as Part I/II) has no title card for the episode. I was a bit startled by that as I know - pretty much to the frame - when "BROTHER'S KEEPER" is supposed to come up on screen. So I guess the version from this set is, like, the original feature-length that was just known as "Miami Vice".

Edited March 10, 2021 by zachbmarsh

[ViceFanMan]

17 minutes ago, zachbmarsh said:

I just happened to post my thoughts about "Brother's Keeper" on letterboxd before discovering these forums, but I'll try and elaborate a little bit.

I really, really like "Brother's Keeper". It has a hell of an opening scene, and like the best of pilots, it feels mostly like a regular episode of the larger show.

With that being said... this time around I don't think it's quite an all-time great episode of Miami Vice. It definitely has some pacing issues - it's too bad the concept of 90-minute airtime episodes didn't exist back in '84, so as to give us ~65 minutes of runtime rather than the 96 we got, which feels padded, or the normal 48, which would have felt too rushed and incomplete.

Crockett and Tubbs are, like, ROCK solid from the jump. There's little - if any - adjustment to the way these two characters are performed or written. I love that we get the scene of Sonny busting his former partner. We get his morals laid out for him on day one, and that's basically who he is. And then Tubbs is his usual playful - but serious about the job - self.

I guess I maybe just feel like a little bit too much is going on throughout the episode. Leon, Trini Lopez, Scottie Wheeler... those characters each, I think, get a little bit too much screentime. Especially Wheeler. They give away SO quickly that he's the leak, and as a result you just spend the entire episode against the guy. Make us trust him more. Put us in Sonny's shoes a bit longer rather than making us constantly one step ahead.

That being said, Sonny taking down Scotty does lead to the "In the Air Tonight" sequence. There is nothing I can possibly say about that scene that hasn't already been said. In four minutes, television changed forever. I'm not so hot on the shootout after, or on Tubbs going full tilt with a shotgun right after taking a bullet in the shoulder, but Calderone's escape is a pretty good setup for his return.

If the entire episode was as good as the "In the Air Tonight" sequence, then "Brother's Keeper" would probably be an episode of television to rival the likes of "Final Grades" from The Wire, or "Ozymandias" from Breaking Bad. As it is, though, again I think this is a really good Miami Vice episode but I also think better was yet to come. 7.5/10 for me.

In all honesty I can’t remember if the Pilot was originally called or referred to as “Brother’s Keeper”, or if that title was created later for reruns & syndication...when it was split into 2 parts? From what I remember when this originally aired, it was just “Miami Vice”. But, I may not remember correctly.

But, it was meant to be a TV movie, not styled as just a regular episode of television. It was also purposely done more like a feature film, too and not just like the standard TV movies at the time. 

The amount of work, detail, background, locations, colors, fashion, characters, plot,  etc...put into it were amazing for 1984! There were more characters & side-lines than the regular 1hr TV episode, put into the plot as a whole...as it all would eventually tie in. This was more like a movie than television back then.

Thats what made this and MV itself special and a cut above a lot of the other shows of the 80s.  

[zachbmarsh]

15 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

The amount of work, detail, background, locations, colors, fashion, characters, plot,  etc...put into it were amazing for 1984! There were more characters & side-lines than the regular 1hr TV episode, put into the plot as a whole...as it all would eventually tie in. This was more like a movie than television back then.

Thats what made this and MV itself special and a cut above a lot of the other shows of the 80s.  

Oh, don't get me wrong, you watch this and you know instantly - even rewatching it through a modern lens - that something was HAPPENING to television with this. Like you just feel it constantly throughout. I think the show just managed to find even more of that voice later on. Even "Heart of Darkness" right after this hammers out a bunch of the kinks.

EDIT: And just to kinda go back to it... the idea of a 90-minute timeslot wasn't really a thing at this point. Like now you can have an episode such as "Here's Not Here" from The Walking Dead, a 64-minute runtime in a 90-minute block, but that was a foreign concept in 1984. So you basically either had to go with one hour, which would've steamrolled through the story, or the feature-length, which I just feel lingers a bit too long. Even certain shots feel like they're extended by 5-10 seconds just to close the gap.

Edited March 10, 2021 by zachbmarsh

[pahonu]

3 hours ago, zachbmarsh said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, you watch this and you know instantly - even rewatching it through a modern lens - that something was HAPPENING to television with this. Like you just feel it constantly throughout. I think the show just managed to find even more of that voice later on. Even "Heart of Darkness" right after this hammers out a bunch of the kinks.

EDIT: And just to kinda go back to it... the idea of a 90-minute timeslot wasn't really a thing at this point. Like now you can have an episode such as "Here's Not Here" from The Walking Dead, a 64-minute runtime in a 90-minute block, but that was a foreign concept in 1984. So you basically either had to go with one hour, which would've steamrolled through the story, or the feature-length, which I just feel lingers a bit too long. Even certain shots feel like they're extended by 5-10 seconds just to close the gap.

There were actually 90 minute time slots going back to the 70’s, like the ABC Movie of the Week.  Some were 90 and some were 120 minutes.

[zachbmarsh]

Just now, pahonu said:

There were actually 90 minute time slots going back to the 70’s, like the ABC Movie of the Week.  Some were 90 and some were 120 minutes.

Oh absolutely, but for a TV episode? I can't think of any back then. I should've been more specific.

[pahonu]

7 minutes ago, zachbmarsh said:

Oh absolutely, but for a TV episode? I can't think of any back then. I should've been more specific.

No worries.  The Rockford Files did have one.  I’ll see if I can find the title.

Edit: the pilot was 90 minutes and also the episode The Man Who Saw the Alligators.

The early Columbo episodes, while not weekly, were also in 90 minute slots.  They rotated with other detective shows, but many were 90.

Edited March 10, 2021 by pahonu

[ViceFanMan]

And...so it begins again! I’m starting another run-through. Always love this Pilot—so much like a feature film & am still amazed at the work & details they went to, to create this awesomeness!  Sorry for the poor quality of my “preview” but I recorded it off my TV screen with my cell, lol!  

[ViceFanMan]

On 5/17/2010 at 12:29 AM, ViceFanMan said:

I love the "Pilot" TV movie!! It truly is an electrifying and sizzling start to one of the most superb shows in TV history!! Martin Ferrero was also hilarious as ‘Trini Desoto’ before he became the moronic/annoying recurring regular ‘Izzy Moreno.’  The music, color, Miami art deco buildings, plot, dialogue, and interactions with the characters/actors are awesome! Of course my favorite scene is the Daytona speeding through the Miami streets with Phil Collins singing In the Air Tonight in the background!  Anyway, I gave this a 10! 

This was my review back in 2010...still pretty much stand by it. As I said in another post above, for television in 1984, this was so much like a feature film that it just fascinated everyone right off the bat! Superb, amazing piece of TV history!!   

[sdiegolo78]

On 10/27/2008 at 5:56 PM, Dadrian said:

in fact, if i ever watch "freefall", i have to watch "brother's keeper" very soon after to lift me back up

That's my excuse to re watch the pilot again! 

[sdiegolo78]

On 6/3/2009 at 3:37 AM, Shill said:

I think the Lou Rodriguez character was killed off way too early though

I agree about Lt Rodriguez and I expressed the way i feel about this character in different threads. Unfortunately, G.Sierra wanted to leave the show cause he didn't want to be in Miami. That's the official reason but I'm sure there must be something else us fans will never get to know. Sierra departure as we know opened doors for EJO. Hard to know how the show and his character would have developed had G.Sierra stayed...