Episode #1 "Brother's Keeper"

[sdiegolo78]

On 4/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Okay...lets see if I can do this right...here is a scene-clip (from my 1984 original airing) of the blonde girl in her bikini, behind Sonny right after Leon was killed. I think we can safely say it was PINK, lol! I don't know why, but every time I do insert a pic, it's posted twice--FYI.

 

 

 

 

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

 

Yeah...with the DVD & Blu-ray sets some colors and things were for some reason changed or altered (such as the girl’s bikini was a different color). However, that actually might have been first done with the syndicated reruns—which ultimately the DVD & Blu-ray sets used. But, originally & in reality the bikini was pink. Beautiful girl , but I’m not a huge fan of the thong-y, high-waisted bikini styles of the 80s. Definitely in style for the time, though! 

[Dadrian]

Wow. I never noticed Crockett and Tubbs were even in that scene! Thanks guys!  

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/30/2012 at 8:20 PM, The real McCarthy said:

JIMMY SMITS BLOWN UP WITHIN FIRST SEVEN MINUTES OF PILOTDoes anyone know or theorize why Sonnys partner was killed so early in the story? Did Jimmy Smits have any regrets that he did not remain in the role?

They could have recycled J.Smits for later episodes.They did it with Martin Ferrero when he became Izzy and the actor who played Scott Wheeler (Bill Smitrowicz) is seen again in the 'Prodigal son'....Other re-used actors that come to mind are Miguel Pinero and John Santucci (Dale Menton from Golden Trainge).

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, sdiegolo78 said:

They could have recycled J.Smits for later episodes.They did it with Martin Ferrero when he became Izzy and the actor who played Scott Wheeler (Bill Smitrowicz) is seen again in the 'Prodigal son'....Other re-used actors that come to mind are Miguel Pinero and John Santucci (Dale Menton from Golden Trainge).

Yeah, but Jimmy Smitts’ character was set to be killed off. It would have been strange to have him show back up in a different role later...although it worked for Martin Ferrero & ‘Izzy’. But, I’ll be honest and say it was weird when Miguel Pinero showed back up later as some “junkie” almost-homeless theater weirdo. He’ll always be Calderone to me, and when he popped up later in this other role, it just seemed silly. But, back then lots of times actors would guest-star in more than one episode of a show, as different characters. But, if they were very memorable as one character...it made it harder for me to see them as a totally different one in another episode. If they weren’t that memorable or important to the plot, it was easier for me to see them in later episodes. 

[sdiegolo78]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

Yeah, but Jimmy Smitts’ character was set to be killed off. It would have been strange to have him show back up in a different role later...although it worked for Martin Ferrero & ‘Izzy’. But, I’ll be honest and say it was weird when Miguel Pinero showed back up later as some “junkie” almost-homeless theater weirdo. He’ll always be Calderone to me, and when he popped up later in this other role, it just seemed silly. But, back then lots of times actors would guest-star in more than one episode of a show, as different characters. But, if they were very memorable as one character...it made it harder for me to see them as a totally different one in another episode. If they weren’t that memorable or important to the plot, it was easier for me to see them in later episodes. 

Eddie Rivera wasn't that memorable yet his death was a pivotal event for the plot. It kinda paved way for Tubbs to become Sonny's partner.

[ViceFanMan]

56 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Eddie Rivera wasn't that memorable yet his death was a pivotal event for the plot. It kinda paved way for Tubbs to become Sonny's partner.

True...it was purposely done to open up the way for Crockett to need a partner, and to integrate Tubbs.

[Christine]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ViceFanMan:

True...it was purposely done to open up the way for Crockett to need a partner, and to integrate Tubbs.

And a connection was made, because Calderone was also to blame for Eddie's death.

[ViceFanMan]

39 minutes ago, Christine said:

And a connection was made, because Calderone was also to blame for Eddie's death.

Several connections were made with Crockett and Tubbs through Calderone...he was responsible for Eddie’s death & the death of Tubbs’ brother Rafael in New York. 

[Christine]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb ViceFanMan:

Several connections were made with Crockett and Tubbs through Calderone...he was responsible for Eddie’s death & the death of Tubbs’ brother Rafael in New York. 

That's clear, but Crockett has nothing to do with Tubbs at first. Therefore, he should not care about the death of a New York policeman, but not about Eddie's death, which is ultimately the same as Rafael's death.

[ViceFanMan]

4 minutes ago, Christine said:

That's clear, but Crockett has nothing to do with Tubbs at first. Therefore, he should not care about the death of a New York policeman, but not about Eddie's death, which is ultimately the same as Rafael's death.

Neither one knew of the other’s personal “deaths” related to Calderone at first...but once they did (even before they realized Tubbs would stay & become Crockett’s partner) they realized they needed to work together at least somewhat, in order to try and bring Calderone down. Both being cops & understanding that life, I’m sure they felt for the other to some degree. 

[Robbie C.]

26 minutes ago, Christine said:

That's clear, but Crockett has nothing to do with Tubbs at first. Therefore, he should not care about the death of a New York policeman, but not about Eddie's death, which is ultimately the same as Rafael's death.

I think with Crockett it was more the idea of catching "The Columbian" who'd been three steps ahead of him for months. Eddie's death pretty much vanishes after the first half-hour or so of the episode. For Tubbs it's far more personal. And I think Wheeler's betrayal hit Crockett harder (at least as they showed it) than Eddie's death. I always had the impression he and Eddie hadn't been partners all that long prior to his death (a few months to a year, maybe...they never say as far as I can remember, but the way they sort of framed Crockett in the "big brother" role created that impression).

[vicegirl85]

Very true.  I definitely agree that Crockett is introduced and portrayed in a "big brother" role, and that he and Eddie have probably been partners for less than a year. 

My feeling is also that after Eddie's death, and the very difficult task of informing his widow (probably not at all true to life), Crockett repressed his feelings (as usual for him) about Eddie and his death, in order to continue to function day to day and to continue his pursuit of Calderone/ the Colombian... while not allowing that pursuit to become a personal "vengeance game."  I would think some very forceful repression would be needed, but Crockett has become a master at separating his emotions from his work in going after criminals--but not in dealing with betrayals by longtime friends. 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

I think with Crockett it was more the idea of catching "The Columbian" who'd been three steps ahead of him for months. Eddie's death pretty much vanishes after the first half-hour or so of the episode. For Tubbs it's far more personal. And I think Wheeler's betrayal hit Crockett harder (at least as they showed it) than Eddie's death. I always had the impression he and Eddie hadn't been partners all that long prior to his death (a few months to a year, maybe...they never say as far as I can remember, but the way they sort of framed Crockett in the "big brother" role created that impression).

I agree, Scottie Wheeler was Crockett's buddy (I think that scene in the courtroom & their asides to each other at OCB set things up nicely), and they had a long-term friendship, so Crockett discovering that he was the leak was devastating. At that point in time, Tubbs was just some visitor from up north that Crockett seemed to take as a burden or nuisance.

One thing I will say about Scottie though, he got to see Tubbs (undercover as a goofball, my favorite kind of cover) having fun at the club (Tubbs had me as a character with that scene alone).

[Christine]

That's right, Wheeler was a longtime friend. When Crockett talks to him outside Wheeler's house, he also mentions that his family and the Wheelers met umpteen times for dinner and other occasions. Naturally, Crockett was therefore shocked that Scott, of all people, was the mole.

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:15 PM, vicegirl85 said:

-but not in dealing with betrayals by longtime friends. 

...and when a loved one is concern (Caitlin)...when it gets that personal everyone lost perspective and threw the badge out the window.

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:20 PM, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

I agree, Scottie Wheeler was Crockett's buddy (I think that scene in the courtroom & their asides to each other at OCB set things up nicely), and they had a long-term friendship, so Crockett discovering that he was the leak was devastating. At that point in time, Tubbs was just some visitor from up north that Crockett seemed to take as a burden or nuisance.

One thing I will say about Scottie though, he got to see Tubbs (undercover as a goofball, my favorite kind of cover) having fun at the club (Tubbs had me as a character with that scene alone).

Yes, that's right. Crockett saw Tubbs as an outsider getting in his way. But when they put their differences aside and started working together ('temporary working  relationship' that lasted 5 years ) the investigation went into the right track, found the leak and got to Calderone.

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/24/2021 at 6:14 PM, Christine said:

That's right, Wheeler was a longtime friend. When Crockett talks to him outside Wheeler's house, he also mentions that his family and the Wheelers met umpteen times for dinner and other occasions. Naturally, Crockett was therefore shocked that Scott, of all people, was the mole.

Like I said in a different post, watching that scene made me feel real bad for the Wheelers, but not for Scotty's betrayal.

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Like I said in a different post, watching that scene made me feel real bad for the Wheelers, but not for Scotty's betrayal.

Exactly...I feel for Wheeler’s wife & children, as they were innocent victims of Scotty’s betrayal themselves! Who doesn’t love the idea of a lot of money? But, when you sell-out your job/career, friends, and more importantly...family, you’ve crossed that line into the proverbial “dark-side”! The love of money is the root of all evil!  

I feel pity & disgust for Scotty that he made the wrong choices he did...and destroyed not only his life, but his family’s & Eddie’s as well! But I don’t feel sorry for him & the consequences he ultimately had to face. Man enough to do the crime...man enough to do the time! 

On other notes: I do think that Crockett had known Scotty Wheeler & been previously partnered with him longer than he knew or had been partnered with Eddie Rivera. But as for how long or “short” he’d been partnered with Eddie...we don’t really know? 

I think it was long enough that they were good friends and trusted each other...and knew each other’s families as well. Eddie’s wife Maria knew Sonny well & fondly when he came into the diner to let her know about Eddie’s death. She’d been a cop’s wife long enough to know what Sonny’s “look” meant, too. Very emotional, sad, but very well acted & realistic scene!!  

I think in some ways Crockett eventually (including the 2-part “Hit List” & “Calderone’s Demise” as well...sort of a sequel to this Pilot) had a quadruple-wammy when it came to having a personal score to settle with Calderone! Calderone had his good friend & partner Eddie killed (even if the bomb was originally meant for Corky), he corrupted & destroyed one of his best & long-time friends & past partners Scotty Wheeler, he eventually was responsible for the death of Lt. Lou Rodriguez, and he was ultimately responsible for trying to have Crockett & his family killed (the last two by means of the Argentinian assassin)! 

Yes, Calderone was responsible for Tubbs’ brother Rafael’s death in New York as well...so Tubbs definitely had a personal score to settle with Orlando, too. But, neither’s vendetta was any less personal or meaningful than the other’s! Both were after Calderone for personal & occupational reasons, and both were considered nemesis by him.

P.S. In the original Pilot, Calderone is referred to as ‘Orlando’. Yet, later if you look it up on IMDB, his name is listed as ‘Esteban’. I know later his half-son, who goes after Tubbs in “Afternoon Plane” is also called Orlando...but I figured he was Orlando ‘II’ or ‘Jr’. I don’t remember the name Esteban being used or mentioned in the Pilot (later called “Brother’s Keeper” when split into 2 parts for syndication)...does anyone know what the true story is behind the different names? Just curious...

Edited March 28, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[sdiegolo78]

9 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

On other notes: I do think that Crockett had known Scotty Wheeler & been previously partnered with him longer than he knew or had been partnered with Eddie Rivera. But as for how long or “short” he’d been partnered with Eddie...we don’t really know?

Sonny definitely knew and had worked with Scotty much longer than with Eddie. The latter, at the start of the pilot is depicted as some sort of up and coming undercover cop, learning on the job from his mentor.

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Sonny definitely knew and had worked with Scotty much longer than with Eddie. The latter, at the start of the pilot is depicted as some sort of up and coming undercover cop, learning on the job from his mentor.

I don’t think Eddie was a newbie, just now learning the job. He probably hadn’t been with Crockett as long as Scotty had in times past...but they’d been partners for a while. Even Caroline & other friends he & Caroline knew together, knew who Eddie was. At the beginning they were talking about a fight Eddie & Maria had recently had. 

[Glades]

I agree. And according to the pilot script Eddie is in his late twenties, so probably no newbie.

[Christine]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb ViceFanMan:

P.S. In the original Pilot, Calderone is referred to as ‘Orlando’. Yet, later if you look it up on IMDB, his name is listed as ‘Esteban’. I know later his half-son, who goes after Tubbs in “Afternoon Plane” is also called Orlando...

If I remember right, Orlando Calderone (in Afternoon plane) was Angelinas cousin and not her half brother, but I´m not really sure. Maybe I should watch this episode again.

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I don’t think Eddie was a newbie, just now learning the job. He probably hadn’t been with Crockett as long as Scotty had in times past...but they’d been partners for a while. Even Caroline & other friends he & Caroline knew together, knew who Eddie was. At the beginning they were talking about a fight Eddie & Maria had recently had. 

That doesn't mean they'd been together for an extended period. I'd say no more than a year...maybe two at the very outside. There's not a whole lot of room in Crockett's timeline for it to have been more than that and account for his ties with Wheeler and his family.

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

If I remember right, Orlando Calderone (in Afternoon plane) was Angelinas cousin and not her half brother, but I´m not really sure. Maybe I should watch this episode again.

No, he was Angelina’s half-brother. I was just wondering about the names??