Episode #78 "Love At First Sight"

[JoeyStockwell]

Decent episode by Season 4 standards but it could have been executed much better. The killer came out of nowhere with no buildup and the "twist" came without any rhyme, reason, or explanation. I really liked the concept of the episode and the opening had me excited for what was to follow (usually the sign of an episode I'm going to love). Instead I was mostly treated to Sonny going on bad dates and Caitlin nagging him at every turn.

[mjcmmv]

7 hours ago, JoeyStockwell said:

I really liked the concept of the episode and the opening had me excited for what was to follow (usually the sign of an episode I'm going to love). Instead I was mostly treated to Sonny going on bad dates and Caitlin nagging him at every turn.

That really made me laugh. And yeah, aside from some of the few scary parts, this about sums this episode up for me. 6/10

[Lieutenant]

I always thought this had more in common with Sea of Love than Psycho.

[ViceFanMan]

8 hours ago, Lieutenant said:

I always thought this had more in common with Sea of Love than Psycho.

I’ve never seen Sea of Love, but read a synopsis online. The serial killer using personal ads sounds similar to this episode of MV...so maybe MV writers got that specific idea from that movie?? But, overall the plot in “Love at First Sight” of the serial killer dressing up as the opposite sex to kill, and actually becoming/being two different people in each of their mindsets, is definitely Psycho! 

[Matt5]

7 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I’ve never seen Sea of Love, but read a synopsis online. The serial killer using personal ads sounds similar to this episode of MV...so maybe MV writers got that specific idea from that movie?? But, overall the plot in “Love at First Sight” of the serial killer dressing up as the opposite sex to kill, and actually becoming/being two different people in each of their mindsets, is definitely Psycho! 

Interesting what you said about “Sea of Love”.

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, Matt5 said:

Interesting what you said about “Sea of Love”.

I’ll have to watch that sometime...don’t remember that one back-when?  But MV definitely paid homage to Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho, with this episode! 

[Matt5]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I’ll have to watch that sometime...don’t remember that one back-when?  But MV definitely paid homage to Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho, with this episode! 

Oh yes definately - and MV did it well too.

[ViceFanMan]

7 minutes ago, Matt5 said:

Oh yes definately - and MV did it well too.

Definitely...one of the best episodes of the season! 

[Lieutenant]

13 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

...so maybe MV writers got that specific idea from that movie??

IMDB says Sea of Love was filmed about 7 months after Love at First Sight. So maybe MV producers/writers knew about the script maybe they didn't. I've seen Psycho multiple times and Sea of Love at least twice but the latter was what came to my mind immediately after watching this episode.

Serial killer finds victims through dating ads and an undercover cop (Pacino) goes on the dates having to do small talk with totally different types of women (some humorous moments as with Vice). Plus later is inside the home of one of the women and is starting to get anxious. And there's more common plot points towards the end..

[Matt5]

3 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Definitely...one of the best episodes of the season! 

I did enjoy it also - great music , locations and story.

 

 

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, Lieutenant said:

IMDB says Sea of Love was filmed about 7 months after Love at First Sight. So maybe MV producers/writers knew about the script maybe they didn't. I've seen Psycho multiple times and Sea of Love at least twice but the latter was what came to my mind immediately after watching this episode.

Serial killer finds victims through dating ads and an undercover cop (Pacino) goes on the dates having to do small talk with totally different types of women (some humorous moments as with Vice). Plus later is inside the home of one of the women and is starting to get anxious. And there's more common plot points towards the end..

Like I said, I’ve never seen Sea of Love, nor really heard of it until some comments of other members above, comparing it. I only looked up a synopsis yesterday and saw a similarity between the plots—of a serial killer using some kind of personal ads...perhaps there are other similarities?? But if the movie was made after this episode of MV, then obviously the episode didn’t copy anything from that movie.

Im a huge Psycho franchise fan, and have & have seen Psycho TONS of times...I’ve always known this episode is basically MV’s version of the iconic film.

[Glades]

On 9/3/2019 at 9:33 PM, Glades said:

If my memory doesn't fool me, there is a episode in season 5 in which it is reported in the OCB that Crockett is on holiday with Billy for these 4 weeks.... Unfortunately I have no idea in which episode that was.

And finally I found the scene! At the beginning of "The Cell Within" Sonny cleans up his desk thoroughly and Rico says goodbye to him with the words: "Look, aren't you suppose to be on vacation with your kid? And Sonny replies: "Yes, I'm out of here. I'll see you, partner".
Sonny says goodbye, takes his bag and leaves the OCB obviously for quite a long time.

So yes, he keeps the promise he gave to Caroline and Billy in "To Have and to Hold" to spend time with Billy on a regulary basis.
 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Glades

[ViceFanMan]

16 hours ago, Glades said:

And finally I found the scene! At the beginning of "The Cell Within" Sonny cleans up his desk thoroughly and Rico says goodbye to him with the words: "Look, aren't you suppose to be on vacation with your kid? And Sonny replies: "Yes, I'm out of here. I'll see you, partner".
Sonny says goodbye, takes his bag and leaves the OCB obviously for quite a long time.

So yes, he keeps the promise he gave to Caroline and Billy in "To Have and to Hold" to spend time with Billy on a regulary basis.
 

Exactly...in the last couple seasons they had Crockett trying to mature with being a better father to Billy, and be more involved in his life. Glad you found the scene!

We were not necessarily given “exact” timeframes of when Sonny was with Billy or not...but that was not really the point. The point was to show that Crockett was evolving & being more involved with his son.

Plus, the character of Billy was never supposed to be a “regular” or that important of an aspect in the day-to-day (or night-to-night ) cases & Vice cop work Crockett and Tubbs had to perform in each episode.  Pretending MV-world was real, I’m sure there were plenty of times Crockett spent time with Billy that we as viewers didn’t get to see nor were privy to. 

[Glades]

9 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Exactly...in the last couple seasons they had Crockett trying to mature with being a better father to Billy, and be more involved in his life. Glad you found the scene!

We were not necessarily given “exact” timeframes of when Sonny was with Billy or not...but that was not really the point. The point was to show that Crockett was evolving & being more involved with his son.

Plus, the character of Billy was never supposed to be a “regular” or that important of an aspect in the day-to-day (or night-to-night ) cases & Vice cop work Crockett and Tubbs had to perform in each episode.  Pretending MV-world was real, I’m sure there were plenty of times Crockett spent time with Billy that we as viewers didn’t get to see nor were privy to.

Yes, there are many things we do not see first hand what happens at VICE. And yet it is real and important for the story.
And yes, in season 5 Crockett often acts mature, responsible and compassionate. Until episode 10, he saved Celeste, saved Kathleen, watched over Joey's sickbed, comforted Trudy, cared for Stan, helped Caroline and Bob, and is a caring father to Billy.
Wow, that's quite a lot!

Edited April 11, 2020 by Glades

[ViceFanMan]

5 minutes ago, Glades said:

Yes, there are many things we do not see first hand what happens at VICE. And yet it is real and important for the story.
And yes, in season 5 Crockett often acts mature, responsible and compassionate. Until episode 10, he saved Celeste, saved Kathleen, watched over Joey's sickbed, comforted Trudy, cared for Stan, helped Caroline and Bob, and is a caring father to Billy. Wow, that's quite a lot!

Agreed! I think by then he realized how important his son’s and friend’s lives were to him and he was trying to be there for them. 

[vicegirl85]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:37 AM, Glades said:

And finally I found the scene! At the beginning of "The Cell Within" Sonny cleans up his desk thoroughly and Rico says goodbye to him with the words: "Look, aren't you suppose to be on vacation with your kid? And Sonny replies: "Yes, I'm out of here. I'll see you, partner".
Sonny says goodbye, takes his bag and leaves the OCB obviously for quite a long time.

So yes, he keeps the promise he gave to Caroline and Billy in "To Have and to Hold" to spend time with Billy on a regulary basis.
 

Thanks for this reminder!  I had forgotten about Sonny taking the trip to spend time with Billy.

[Glades]

6 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

Thanks for this reminder!  I had forgotten about Sonny taking the trip to spend time with Billy.

You are welcome!

[IzzyFan99]

Great episode. Iman is a bit iffy in my opinion (the first actress Sonny dates would have been far better if she had been cast as the serial killer), but I really like the rest. Jon Petersen's score really adds to the unsettling atmosphere and the "Madness of It All" montage is one of the most iconic moments from the fourth season. Johnson did a good job with the directing especially they way he used POV shots.

 I'm going to give this one an 8.5. I don't think there's any build up to the Lois reveal which I think is a bit of an issue. Personally I wouldn't have shown her speaking to Sonny on the phone and instead introduced her to the audience when Sonny first meets her in person. For all of its flaws I think it holds up quite well. Also, Sheena Easton 

 

 

[AndrewRemington]

This a great episode. One of my favorites I’ve watched many times. It definitely fits the thriller/horror genre. As mentioned before, I think “Psycho” was an influence, but instead of a son portraying his mother, it’s a woman portraying a made-up brother. Very odd.

I am a big fan of Sonny and Caitlin. I am a big fan of Sonny, but I was really disappointed in his behavior. He was a jerk to Caitlin in several scenes. Especially when he says she’s interfering and takes off. That is no way to talk to your wife. She was just concerned and interested. If you shut her out like that, it’s gonna be the same situation as with Caroline (but we all know Caitlin didn’t live long enough for that to happen).

Regardless of Sonny’s behavior, we get that awesome night drive scene with “The Madness Of It All” by the Ward Brothers. This is one of my favorite music moments in the series.

Even though I get upset about Sonny’s behavior, I would still give this episode a 10/10. Very intense and has some funny moments. Great tunes. I laugh at the Choo-Choo scene. “Choo-Choo, baby!” and when Sonny says “I hate this!” when they’re chasing him. 

[Bren10]

You have to take into account one of the ways Sonny stays alive is not discussing every little thing. That's the routine that has sustained him and he isn't used to other people getting involved. He also wants to compartmentalize his life with his personal life on one side and the job on the other. That's his version of not bringing his work home with him and letting it interfere with relationships. The last thing he wants to talk about with his wife after 8-plus hours when he gets home is all the horrendous stuff he's been immersed in. Remember Sonny is a Mann's man like Vincent Hanna and I strongly suggest listening closely to the discussion Hanna has with his wife in Heat after finding the dead prostitute to get the gist of what I'm saying.

[summer84]

I always thought, that Crockett was a jerk to Gina in "Nobody Lives Forever," in the way he used her. 

But regarding this episode, I think, he didn't want to unnecessarily upset Caitlin and burden her with his work related problems. If she knew more about it, she would probably worry often about whether he was safe. But on the other hand, he should have communicated better and not get mad for her showing concern. I recall Gina saying in the Pilot episode, "it's tough on a relationship/marriage, what we do." Something along those lines. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by summer84

[ViceFanMan]

5 hours ago, AndrewRemington said:

This a great episode. One of my favorites I’ve watched many times. It definitely fits the thriller/horror genre. As mentioned before, I think “Psycho” was an influence, but instead of a son portraying his mother, it’s a woman portraying a made-up brother. Very odd.

I am a big fan of Sonny and Caitlin. I am a big fan of Sonny, but I was really disappointed in his behavior. He was a jerk to Caitlin in several scenes. Especially when he says she’s interfering and takes off. That is no way to talk to your wife. She was just concerned and interested. If you shut her out like that, it’s gonna be the same situation as with Caroline (but we all know Caitlin didn’t live long enough for that to happen).

Regardless of Sonny’s behavior, we get that awesome night drive scene with “The Madness Of It All” by the Ward Brothers. This is one of my favorite music moments in the series.

Even though I get upset about Sonny’s behavior, I would still give this episode a 10/10. Very intense and has some funny moments. Great tunes. I laugh at the Choo-Choo scene. “Choo-Choo, baby!” and when Sonny says “I hate this!” when they’re chasing him. 

 I love this episode too, and it’s one of my favorites of the season! It is definitely MV‘s version of Psycho, but it used a domineering brother-figure for a female, instead of the mother for a son or male.

 I’ll be honest and say I was never a fan of Sonny and Caitlin. I don’t dislike or hate her character by any means...but the way she & Crockett rushed into their marriage without taking into account that each of their careers were going to cause huge problems for the other, was stupid & ridiculous! In MV world she just wasn’t “right” for Crockett. In reality it was a last desperate, if not pathetic, attempt by writers/producers to try and get back viewers & ratings. It failed!

But, I think that actually realistically showed as once ‘reality’ started to hit, their marriage was already failing by the time she was killed. But, overall I liked this episode—pretty wild for its time! 

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, Bren10 said:

You have to take into account one of the ways Sonny stays alive is not discussing every little thing. That's the routine that has sustained him and he isn't used to other people getting involved. He also wants to compartmentalize his life with his personal life on one side and the job on the other. That's his version of not bringing his work home with him and letting it interfere with relationships. The last thing he wants to talk about with his wife after 8-plus hours when he gets home is all the horrendous stuff he's been immersed in. Remember Sonny is a Mann's man like Vincent Hanna and I strongly suggest listening closely to the discussion Hanna has with his wife in Heat after finding the dead prostitute to get the gist of what I'm saying.

This. Sonny was also always deeply involved in his cases (to a fault in many instances...see Down for the Count for just one example). I don't tend to buy the whole "they rushed it" argument simply because we have NO IDEA how much time actually passed between them meeting and the wedding. The kind of case Caitlin was supposed to be testifying in can drag on for ages, and Vice was always really flexible with time between episodes. I tend to think Sonny wanted to make it work (and explored this in a short story) because he felt it was his one remaining lifeline to the word outside the Job. Gina wasn't that. She was still part of the Job, no matter how many hairs you try to split with it.

And to Summer's comment, in his early days Crockett WAS a jerk. One of the things I do in my fiction is explore both that side of him and how he could have matured once he realized what he was doing to both himself and everyone around him. If you look at Sonny through the eyes of Stan or Larry he's an ass. He has his moments, but in the early days he's a full-on cowboy. This mellowed over the seasons, but it always lingered just below the surface.

[Bren10]

1 hour ago, summer84 said:

I always thought, that Crockett was a jerk to Gina in "Nobody Lives Forever," in the way he used her. 

But regarding this episode, I think, he didn't want to unnecessarily upset Caitlin and burden her with his work related problems. If she knew more about it, she would probably worry often about whether he was safe. But on the other hand, he should have communicated better and not get mad for her showing concern. I recall Gina saying in the Pilot episode, "it's tough on a relationship/marriage, what we do." Something along those lines. 

They used each other. It wasn't one-way. But I also don't think the term "use" is a negative or manipulative thing in this scenario. Sonny and Gina made themselves available to each other and occupied a certain space in each other's lives, but it was never the kind of courtship that was going to lead to something bigger or permanent, in my opinion. I think Gina suddenly felt threatened and marginalized by Brenda in a kneejerk way and attacking Sonny for finding something with potential outside of work I think was a cheap shot. Sonny's right when he says "That's not fair" because she's the one who isn't abiding by their unspoken agreement. What if the shoe was on the other foot? Notice the how differently Gina reacts to Caitlyn as opposed to Brenda.

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

This. Sonny was also always deeply involved in his cases (to a fault in many instances...see Down for the Count for just one example). I don't tend to buy the whole "they rushed it" argument simply because we have NO IDEA how much time actually passed between them meeting and the wedding. The kind of case Caitlin was supposed to be testifying in can drag on for ages, and Vice was always really flexible with time between episodes. I tend to think Sonny wanted to make it work (and explored this in a short story) because he felt it was his one remaining lifeline to the word outside the Job. Gina wasn't that. She was still part of the Job, no matter how many hairs you try to split with it.

From the time Sonny and Caitlin met and the time they decided to get married was all of about a couple weeks. Now once they were married, and the case with the crazy music agents continued, that could have gone on longer (months?). 

However, their marriage was insanely rushed and their characters went with infatuation rather than relationship. Again, in reality it was a poor attempt by writers for a last-ditch ratings grab. I think both wanted the “idea” of what they thought the marriage was going to be, to work...but again once reality hit, neither of their careers were ultimately going to allow that. The marriage was doomed from the start, and it was already starting to fail when she was sadly killed. 

No matter how you try to proverbially split-hairs with Gina...like it or not, there was ALWAYS love and relationship between her & Crockett, even when they both tried to ignore it or get over it—it still was there!  Even when he was with Caitlin, there was still something serious between Sonny & Gina.  Whether the writers actually intended that to be, or whether Don Johnson and Sandra Santiago just played it that way—whether it was intentional or not, it was there!

Gina was from “work”, true...she totally understood Crockett, what he did & where he was coming from, as she herself had to do the same! Her career didn’t threaten his, and she wasn’t trying to force him into another “world” or  to be something he wasn’t...as Caitlin (not maliciously, but still happening) was before she died.

 As long as Crockett had that job, probably any marriage was going to have problems or suffer. But like it or not, & no matter how you try to change it, probably the best choice for a wife would’ve been Gina. 

(P.S. “confused” emojis don’t make it any less true. )

Edited July 28, 2020 by ViceFanMan