Miami Vice reboot happening for real now?

[Assasinge]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I don't think there's a 'seemed' about it, actually. And it hurt both the long-term viability of the show and his career afterwards.

Yeah there's no doubt about that.

[Robbie C.]

I know Hotel Scarface doesn't have anything bad to say about PMT, though it does diss DJ a few times.

[Titus]

On 9/20/2019 at 1:24 PM, Robbie C. said:

Maybe he was more interested in the visuals of Vice and not its content. Compare his approach to it with Crime Story, which I believe he was much more involved with. I always thought his main goal with Vice was visual and production. Writing? Not so much. Which could explain some of the shifts in later seasons.

So true! Michael Mann is a terrible writer. He keeps retelling the same story over and over and over. From THIEF through HEAT through MIAMI VICE through BLACKHAT, he repeats the same basic plot: Male anti-hero is too dedicated to his career to have a relationship or normal friendships, thinks about changing, and at the end decides to blow everything up and remain who he was at the beginning.

That, on its own, is the basis of many a private eye or detective story, but cinema-wise, I wish Mann had hired someone to write better scripts for him. Even HEAT with all its star power falls flat in parts. The only thing that saves it is Mann's intense visuals and action choreography.

[Titus]

6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I got this from IMDB - "When the film version was still being developed by Michael Mann, Don Johnson was asked who he would pick to play Sonny Crockett. Johnson suggested Colin Farrell"

I just don't believe that. IMDB says it, yes. But there is no way I believe Don Johnson would have ever said that.

[Assasinge]

8 minutes ago, Titus said:

So true! Michael Mann is a terrible writer. He keeps retelling the same story over and over and over. From THIEF through HEAT through MIAMI VICE through BLACKHAT, he repeats the same basic plot: Male anti-hero is too dedicated to his career to have a relationship or normal friendships, thinks about changing, and at the end decides to blow everything up and remain who he was at the beginning.

That, on its own, is the basis of many a private eye or detective story, but cinema-wise, I wish Mann had hired someone to write better scripts for him. Even HEAT with all its star power falls flat in parts. The only thing that saves it is Mann's intense visuals and action choreography.

Rip. That is sadly true, as much as I hate to admit it. Also Blackhat sure is an interesting movie. But it had some dire ass ratings lmao

Edited September 21, 2019 by Assasinge

[Titus]

39 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

Right, I was sort of making a point off of that in that, we know DJ's ego also blew up with the show and there have been instances of him being a less than stellar human, but none I can think of that have been documented of PMT. Though like you say he could have been too but, we'll probably never know then if he was. 

PMT went to a fan's wedding once. That right there told me everything I ever needed to know about him. In an interview, Edward James Olmos sang his praises as well in a way that signaled that there was someone else whose praises he didn't sing .

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, Titus said:

So true! Michael Mann is a terrible writer. He keeps retelling the same story over and over and over. From THIEF through HEAT through MIAMI VICE through BLACKHAT, he repeats the same basic plot: Male anti-hero is too dedicated to his career to have a relationship or normal friendships, thinks about changing, and at the end decides to blow everything up and remain who he was at the beginning.

That, on its own, is the basis of many a private eye or detective story, but cinema-wise, I wish Mann had hired someone to write better scripts for him. Even HEAT with all its star power falls flat in parts. The only thing that saves it is Mann's intense visuals and action choreography.

What saves Mann's writing is when he gets an actor who will make the part their own or otherwise put a stamp on it. PMT and EJO did this with Tubbs and Castillo. DJ? Not so much, and it shows. Mann's strength is far and away visuals.

 

1 hour ago, Titus said:

PMT went to a fan's wedding once. That right there told me everything I ever needed to know about him. In an interview, Edward James Olmos sang his praises as well in a way that signaled that there was someone else whose praises he didn't sing .

And I agree completely. I think PMT was always aware of what he had with Vice, whereas DJ seemed to think he was either entitled to it or it wasn't good enough for him.

[Assasinge]

1 hour ago, Titus said:

PMT went to a fan's wedding once. That right there told me everything I ever needed to know about him. In an interview, Edward James Olmos sang his praises as well in a way that signaled that there was someone else whose praises he didn't sing .

Yes he did.

[mjcmmv]

3 hours ago, Assasinge said:

Well I think PMT largely remained a good dude during and after the tenure of the show as far as I can tell, I mean I'm pretty sure Crockett's bully like attitude was reflective of him in real life or something lol

He did remain a good dude, but he had a flare of ego too, when he told the media he hopped to win the EGOT-Emmy, Golden Globe, Oscar and Tony. Here's a good article about him. (I love him BTW!) https://people.com/archive/cover-story-the-ego-has-landed-vol-24-no-24/

 

[mjcmmv]

44 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

What saves Mann's writing is when he gets an actor who will make the part their own or otherwise put a stamp on it. PMT and EJO did this with Tubbs and Castillo. DJ? Not so much, and it shows. Mann's strength is far and away visuals.

 

 

Well, I don't agree with that completely. DJ did work at putting his stamp on the role, at least in the beginning. I know he was arrogant and self serving, but I believe he's a talented actor who got swept up in all the hype. Plus, his addictions made him lose his way for awhile. I see him in a ton of productions right now, so, even thought it's late in his career, he's still out there, plugging along. (not bad looking for his age, either!)

Edited September 21, 2019 by mjcmmv

[vicegirl85]

I agree with mjcmmv.  The character of Sonny Crockett had an undeniable charisma for viewers, which helped the show to skyrocket and gain its iconic status during the first couple of years. 

DJ (as well as PMT) had struggled for years to latch on to a winning product, and the stars aligned just as he himself was cleaning up his act and taking on family responsibilities for the first time (with his son, Jesse).  Definitely he was letting ego "drive the bus", as he's admitted.  He did put his stamp on the character of Crockett, and I would not lay the blame for Crockett's lack of real development on him, since he didn't have contractual control of his character (as EJO did).  PMT as Tubbs worked to develop his character as well, I think, but I disagree that Tubbs ever became a truly well-rounded character.  PMT had an ego and big dreams, but I don't feel he had the drive or to be honest, the attention given to him that DJ did.  But I think DJ also worked his butt off to get opportunities during and after MV.  If not for that drive, Nash Bridges wouldn't have happened.  I think he's more humble these days (at least he comes off that way in interviews) but it took him a long time to become grounded. 

PMT was a genuinely nice guy, from all I've read of him, and he didn't seem to let MV's success go to his head.  He had undeniable talent and I wish he'd been given another opportunity with a hit TV show.  I'm not dissing him at all.  But if he'd received the adulation DJ did, who knows how it would have affected him? 

[mjcmmv]

You make some interesting points, vicegirl85. Wish I had thought of Nash Bridges. And the fact that DJ didn't have that much control over the role, like EJO did. I do know that he was hard to work with, trying to control the scenes and giving directors and other actors a huge headache. But hey, he was trying to put his stamp on things by being creative!

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Mr. Calderon]

2 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

I know Hotel Scarface doesn't have anything bad to say about PMT, though it does diss DJ a few times.

You mean, the book? Did you read it? What did it say?

[vicegirl85]

8 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

You make some interesting points, vicegirl85. Wish I had thought of Nash Bridges. And the fact that DJ didn't have that much control over the role, like EJO did. I do know that he was hard to work with, trying to control the scenes and giving directors and other actors a huge headache. But hey, he was trying to put his stamp on things by being creative!

Yes, I agree that he was trying to put his stamp on things and influence the direction of the show.  And I don't doubt he was hard to work with, even if he was sincerely trying to make it a better product!

But if not for DJ's portrayal of Sonny Crockett, I don't think we'd all be here 30+ years later, talking about the show

[mjcmmv]

Just now, vicegirl85 said:

But if not for DJ's portrayal of Sonny Crockett, I don't think we'd all be here 30+ years later, talking about the show

BINGO!

[Mr. Calderon]

42 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

He did remain a good dude, but he had a flare of ego too, when he told the media he hopped to win the EGOT-Emmy, Golden Globe, Oscar and Tony. Here's a good article about him. (I love him BTW!) https://people.com/archive/cover-story-the-ego-has-landed-vol-24-no-24/

 

Man, Philip was very cool accepting that interview time ago. I didnt expect he would write all those pages answering me. Or do a "freeze miami vice" video for the info site (if i remember meeting captainkaipi in miami). Hes really a GREAT GOOD GUY. 

I just hope one day Don could pass thru here and say hello too. After that desbarres interview he looked more humble and down on earth.

If i had the success they had on those vice days i would suffer from egoitis too. Im kinda popstar you know....

Edited September 21, 2019 by Mr. Calderon

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, mjcmmv said:

Well, I don't agree with that completely. DJ did work at putting his stamp on the role, at least in the beginning. I know he was arrogant and self serving, but I believe he's a talented actor who got swept up in all the hype. Plus, his addictions made him lose his way for awhile. I see him in a ton of productions right now, so, even thought it's late in his career, he's still out there, plugging along. (not bad looking for his age, either!)

I think Crockett was in some ways more notable for what DJ avoided. I don't deny that he brought emotion to many scenes, but he really played down the Vietnam vet aspect of his character (something you see when you look the draft script for Buddies, for example, or the episode that became Back in the World). That wasn't the writers...I think that was DJ putting his own feelings ahead of what the show needed. I'm not talking about his later work or anything else, though. And if he was the star, he had the ability to shift the character, especially given the lack of a strong show runner.

[Robbie C.]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Calderon said:

You mean, the book? Did you read it? What did it say?

I've got the book, actually. When they do mention DJ they give the impression he was quite full of himself. Supposedly he got pissed because the guy with the condo on the top floor wouldn't let him (DJ) land his helicopter on the roof.

[Titus]

2 hours ago, Assasinge said:

Yes he did.

That's the one!

[Titus]

Sometimes to be a big star you need to be an arrogant a**hole. Just goes with the territory. Let's forget about DJ and shift focus to William Shatner, who was loathed and hated by everybody that knew him in the 1960s and 1970s.

But Shatner created two TV characters we can all name without even thinking about them. Can any of the other wannabes who complained that William Shatner was a jerk say the same?

DJ was a star. He knew it. He acted like it. If he hadn't, there may never have been a Miami Vice. That arrogance propelled Crockett.

PMT... maybe he didn't want it enough. Don't blame him. I wouldn't. Seriously, all that constant attention... I'd lose my mind and my grounding in reality. It's not for everybody. DJ obviously is addicted to it. He hasn't stopped. Still today, he's pushing pushing pushing. It's in the DNA of super-successful people, a self-obsession that many find arrogant.

PMT didn't have this complete self-obsession. In my mind, it knocks him up a couple notches on the human being chart, but being high on the human being chart does not equate to the most success in show business. PMT may consider himself even more successful than DJ and I wouldn't blame him... PMT got to cash the residual royalties (and still does hopefully) while remaining semi-famous.

[Robbie C.]

I think the difference is Shatner never tanked an episode because he wasn't the center of it. He also kept Kirk and TJ consistent and embraced them, warts and all. And sometimes I think people want it both ways with DJ. They'll say he was a star and had all this clout and then shrug it off with an excuse blaming the writers or something else when he doesn't give a good performance or tanks an episode.

My gripe remains when you compare Crockett to other vet characters from that era (Magnum and his buddies, Rick Simon, Howard Hunter, and others) he comes up short. And that wasn't the writers. Selleck and McRaney weren't vets either, but they gave their characters a class and dignity about serving in Vietnam that television audiences hadn't seen before. DJ had that chance and muffed it terribly. He does a great, 'in the moment' avatar kind of character. I don't take that away from him at all. But the recurring background elements are always lacking.

It does make you wonder, though, why so few of the Vice regulars went on to serious TV or movie success.

[Titus]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I think the difference is Shatner never tanked an episode because he wasn't the center of it. He also kept Kirk and TJ consistent and embraced them, warts and all. And sometimes I think people want it both ways with DJ. They'll say he was a star and had all this clout and then shrug it off with an excuse blaming the writers or something else when he doesn't give a good performance or tanks an episode.

My gripe remains when you compare Crockett to other vet characters from that era (Magnum and his buddies, Rick Simon, Howard Hunter, and others) he comes up short. And that wasn't the writers. Selleck and McRaney weren't vets either, but they gave their characters a class and dignity about serving in Vietnam that television audiences hadn't seen before. DJ had that chance and muffed it terribly. He does a great, 'in the moment' avatar kind of character. I don't take that away from him at all. But the recurring background elements are always lacking.

It does make you wonder, though, why so few of the Vice regulars went on to serious TV or movie success.

Good points, Robbie C. I do wonder why DJ was never able to recapture the level of success he had on Miami Vice. And you're right, Shatner was always 100% committed... even in Priceline ads. Hm... food for thought.

[RedDragon86]

M.PI and Shatner? 

[RedDragon86]

16 hours ago, Titus said:

So true! Michael Mann is a terrible writer. He keeps retelling the same story over and over and over. From THIEF through HEAT through MIAMI VICE through BLACKHAT, he repeats the same basic plot: Male anti-hero is too dedicated to his career to have a relationship or normal friendships, thinks about changing, and at the end decides to blow everything up and remain who he was at the beginning.

That, on its own, is the basis of many a private eye or detective story, but cinema-wise, I wish Mann had hired someone to write better scripts for him. Even HEAT with all its star power falls flat in parts. The only thing that saves it is Mann's intense visuals and action choreography.

Terrible writer? Heat and Thief are considered as some of the greatest crime films of all time.

The retelling is his signature, just like how Martin Scorsese always implies self guilt in his films.

Edited September 22, 2019 by RedDragon86

[Titus]

4 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Terrible writer? Heat and Thief are considered as some of the greatest crime films of all time.

The retelling is his signature, just like how Martin Scorsese always implies self guilt in his films.

Yeah, good point. THIEF is solid and HEAT was good.