Dadrian Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) I do like the songs and score in “Chemistry” though. And Izzy says some funny stuff as always. That’s about it. Edited October 15, 2019 by Dadrian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I think she tries to be merciful with bad episodes. Still, I always find the chemist dropping dead from his own product pretty hilarious. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bren10 said: I always find the chemist dropping dead from his own product pretty hilarious. That really made me laugh! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I was never convinced that he was Rico's former partner, it felt completely made up. The episode was contrived. First off Tubb's never once in 2 to 3 years mentioned he had a partner, but after all he did and he happened to be working in a Miami nightclub one night and he spots Tubbs during a drug deal, what an extraordinary coincidence. Wolf and Duggan should have stayed away from writing episodes. Have you noticed the majority of quality episodes in season 3 had nothing to do with Wolf, Forgive Us Our Debts, El Viejo, Stones War, The Good Collar etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: Wolf and Duggan should have stayed away from writing episodes. Have you noticed the majority of quality episodes in season 3 had nothing to do with Wolf, Forgive Us Our Debts, El Viejo, Stones War, The Good Collar etc. I don't know much about Wolf or Duggan's writing, but if "Chemistry's" is an example, I wish they'd concentrated their talents somewhere else! Edited October 15, 2019 by mjcmmv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) vor 13 Stunden schrieb RedDragon86: I was never convinced that he was Rico's former partner, it felt completely made up. The episode was contrived. First off Tubb's never once in 2 to 3 years mentioned he had a partner, but after all he did and he happened to be working in a Miami nightclub one night and he spots Tubbs during a drug deal, what an extraordinary coincidence. Wolf and Duggan should have stayed away from writing episodes. Have you noticed the majority of quality episodes in season 3 had nothing to do with Wolf, Forgive Us Our Debts, El Viejo, Stones War, The Good Collar etc. Wolf and Duggan did not write the episode but did the adaptation of the original story of Ken Edwards and Harold Rosenthal for the TV screen. I agree that this is not the best storyline ever but the argument that Tubbs never mentioned Batisse is thin and valid or all TV series: Crockett also never spoke about Mike Orgel before Evan and Tubbs did not mention Valerie either before Rites of passage. And have you ever heard about a cop without a partner anyway? Edited October 16, 2019 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, mjcmmv said: I don't know much about Wolf or Duggan's writing, but if "Chemistry's" is an example, I wish they'd concentrated their talents somewhere else! Wolf did write a few decent teleplays but overall they were poorly done. Why I think he was no good for the show he didn't have his own vision, so he had to get involved in writing. Michael Mann co-wrote one I think but he had a clear vision which was the style and the vibe of the show, the attitude of the characters as well. I honestly don't think Wolf cared for Vice. Reminds me of the time when Richard Donner was sacked half way through making Superman ll and Richard Lester messed it up a bit, he even said in a interview a few years ago that at the time he didn't care for the Superman franchise. I think your heart has to be in the show for it to work, especially if you are in charge. Edited October 16, 2019 by RedDragon86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tom said: Wolf and Duggan did not write the episode but did the adaptation of the original story of Ken Edwards and Harold Rosenthal for the TV screen. I agree that this is not the best storyline ever but the argument that Tubbs never mentioned Batisse is thin and valid or all TV series: Crockett also never spoke about Mike Orgel before Evan and Tubbs did not mention Valerie either before Rites of passage. And have you ever heard about a cop without a partner anyway? Maybe they changed too much from the adaptation to the teleplay that made it worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, RedDragon86 said: Wolf did write a few decent teleplays but overall they were poorly done. Why I think he was no good for the show he didn't have his own vision, so he had to get involved in writing. Michael Mann co-wrote one I think but he had a clear vision which was the style and the vibe of the show, the attitude of the characters as well. I honestly don't think Wolf cared for Vice. Reminds me of the time when Richard Donner was sacked half way through making Superman ll and Richard Lester messed it up a bit, he even said in a interview a few years ago that at the time he didn't care for the Superman franchise. I think your heart has to be in the show for it to work, especially if you are in charge. You are right. In an interview D. Wolf said something like this: "I left "Law and Order" and did "Miami Vice" because it fit well into my curriculum vitae." That sounded to me a lot like calculated business activity, not like his heart was in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 I don't think this ep is that great either. Although the air condtioning vent death is unique. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 This is a big one I have been waiting for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamijimf Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 Good analysis, didn't recognize the differences in writing styles that affected the behavior of Crockett. Good question - is this police brutality the beginning of Crockett's corruption after years of dealing with corrupt people? I think it is more likely the beginning of burn-out. One hard to believe element - Crockett's passion to save a murderer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) I think it's like she says, the brutality was an extreme that Sonny thought was justified due to the constraints of time and the stakes being so high. Also remember that with this being a neo-noir show that Sonny was never perfect in the first place. Sonny is enforcing the law, not morality. It's the same sort of moral relativism that allows Sonny to admire Lombard or lets Vincent Hannah have coffee with Neil McCauley in Heat. They are in their own world and don't react the same as we would or think they should. Hackman may be a murderer but the one he is to be executed for he appears to be (at first) innocent of. Plus Crockett helped put him away which gives Sonny personal investment and responsibility in this case. Edited October 25, 2019 by Bren10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted October 26, 2019 Report Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, miamijimf said: One hard to believe element - Crockett's passion to save a murderer. Hard to believe! Yes, yes, yes!!! Sonny was cynical in the beginning, but suddenly came around? All signs seemed to point that this guy killed his partner! Did Sonny feel guilty for helping to convict the guy when "witnesses" came forward to exonerate Hackman ? Maybe, but I don't see it. The witnesses were pretty sketchy and were all connected to Hackman in some way. So, for me, the plot's "logic" that Hackman was innocent was weak, and I believe Crockett would have seen right through it. Edited October 26, 2019 by mjcmmv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted October 26, 2019 Report Share Posted October 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, mjcmmv said: Hard to believe! Yes, yes, yes!!! Sonny was cynical in the beginning, but suddenly came around? All signs seemed to point that this guy killed his partner! Did Sonny feel guilty for helping to convict the guy when "witnesses" came forward to exonerate Hackman ? Maybe, but I don't see it. The witnesses were pretty sketchy and were all connected to Hackman in some way. So, for me, the plot's "logic" that Hackman was innocent was weak, and I believe Crockett would have seen right through it. I think that the degree of Sonny's passionate involvement in getting Hackman released from Death Row was a bit unbelievable (for the reasons cited above)... but on the other hand, I think he wanted Hackman to fry for things he had actually done, rather than for a particular act he hadn't done/may not have done (according to the new eyewitness information). While he didn't think Hackman was 'innocent'--he knew Hackman had committed serious crimes in the past and would likely commit crimes in the future if he was released, he was pulled into the deception of Hackman's prison conversion. After all, Hackman was taking a pretty big chance that Sonny would be willing to intervene, and that he would be able to get the governor to commute the death sentence. If the execution hadn't been coming up in such a time crunch, Sonny would have been able to investigate more thoroughly and determine if the other 'witnesses' were lying, etc. However, he didn't have time to turn over every stone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted October 26, 2019 Report Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said: I think that the degree of Sonny's passionate involvement in getting Hackman released from Death Row was a bit unbelievable (for the reasons cited above)... but on the other hand, I think he wanted Hackman to fry for things he had actually done, rather than for a particular act he hadn't done/may not have done (according to the new eyewitness information). While he didn't think Hackman was 'innocent'--he knew Hackman had committed serious crimes in the past and would likely commit crimes in the future if he was released, he was pulled into the deception of Hackman's prison conversion. After all, Hackman was taking a pretty big chance that Sonny would be willing to intervene, and that he would be able to get the governor to commute the death sentence. If the execution hadn't been coming up in such a time crunch, Sonny would have been able to investigate more thoroughly and determine if the other 'witnesses' were lying, etc. However, he didn't have time to turn over every stone. I hear what you're saying. I see Sonny fighting the impulse to go to bat for Hackman. And he should have investigated Hackman's crimes more. And you're right -the time crunch made that impossible. The Sonny of the future is more complicated, and I see this episode explaining how vulnerable he was to his breakdown in Season 4/5. Edited October 26, 2019 by mjcmmv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 9, 2019 Report Share Posted November 9, 2019 These last few eps demonstrate why I like season 3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 Not such a great way to cap off the Calderone saga. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 This dovetails pretty well with all the talk of consistency in writing on the show. Btw, Scott Plank was the original Vincent Hanna in L.A. Takedown. Clearly Mann saw something in him. RIP https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7135583 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) The Red tape review is based on a misunderstanding IMO. Tubbs‘ behavior is not bad continuity by the writers and yes, they did everything (well) to really make us believe that Tubbs has defected. He even had his new aggressive behavior with Switek alone in the office with nobody else around. He was not forced to maintain this charade at this point but it was safer and more credible within the force and to mislead the viewer. In 30 years of watching this episode I never came onto the same negative conclusion or idea about the character development quality like she did here. But maybe she needs to take an „advocatus diaboli“ position on everything to spice up her reviews? Edited November 19, 2019 by Tom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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