Don speaks about MV Reboot and Tubbs

[Robbie C.]

Just now, jpaul1 said:

Miami vice was as much a cocktail of luck than a series of good choices. Miami vice wouldn't have been the same without Hammer, PMT, or Castillo. if you want to be sure to succeed then you'd better do nothing. as the probably to catch all the good elements together is almost impossible. but i prefer a failed attempt to inactivity. i rejoin you on the fact that to succeed it will have to be totally different from the 80s show. but this doesn't prevent from having DJ, or PMT as guests stars as i already told earlier. maybe we think the same, but didn't understand each other

No, I don't believe we think the same. I'd prefer inactivity in terms of a reboot to a failed attempt...or one that makes a mockery of the original show. I write Vice fiction, but in fiction you have more leeway to stick to the original feel and intent of the show while still updating it in small ways (and bringing it to what I hope was a meaningful conclusion). TV doesn't allow you to do that, especially now.

[jpaul1]

Miami vice is not the series exclusivity. it's the name of a department of the MDPD. i don't see what could prevent one to reuse the name. Miami vice the 80s series is a TV series, it's not Moses tablets neither. I love the show because i felt in love with Miami city when i was a kid. but one shouldn't deify neither. there are plenty of good directions to explore for a good revival. Crockett, and Tubbs after resigning. Tubbs kid, Castillo dark areas. Castillo wife. Switek post alcoholism era. truth about Zito death. Everglades environmental issues. why, oh why being shy

[Mr. Calderon]

The Fastlane series was an updated miami vice. And it was a very good show.  And needless to say, a "candy store" full of great cars and so on.....there was nothing to do with reality of a LAPD, or MDPD. Why a reboot should be linked to the reality (as the miami vice movie tried to do, being a boring movie made for reality lived by cops)? Having Crockett and Tubbs, maybe some (not many) different ideas could be developed....not necessary the two retired cops that came from the nursing home to solve a misterious case...
 

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

Miami vice is not the series exclusivity. it's the name of a department of the MDPD. i don't see what could prevent one to reuse the name. Miami vice the 80s series is a TV series, it's not Moses tablets neither. I love the show because i felt in love with Miami city when i was a kid. but one shouldn't deify neither. there are plenty of good directions to explore for a good revival. Crockett, and Tubbs after resigning. Tubbs kid, Castillo dark areas. Castillo wife. Switek post alcoholism era. truth about Zito death. Everglades environmental issues. why, oh why being shy

Then why not start from scratch with a new show and a new name rather than trying to ride the coattails of something that has already been done? Why not actually be innovative instead of latching onto (and ruining in all likelihood) the cachet of the earlier show? Maybe you should develop "Miami Dade Park Rangers" and follow two park rangers on their quest to prevent the extinction of Elvis' descendants in the Everglades.

I don't deify Vice...there are many things it got wrong, did poorly, or only partially touched on. But I also recognize that sometimes it's actually best to start over instead of recycling something just to make a quick buck or cash in on past successes. If people want to wheel Crockett and Tubbs out of retirement in some kind of "Vice She Wrote" farce, go for it. I'd find other things to watch...or more likely read.

[jpaul1]

I don't agree with you. But well we're in democracy . Your idea of a Floridian Daktari is funny, but definitely interesting

[MennoinSF]

20 hours ago, Mr. Calderon said:

The Fastlane series was an updated miami vice. And it was a very good show.  And needless to say, a "candy store" full of great cars and so on.....there was nothing to do with reality of a LAPD, or MDPD. Why a reboot should be linked to the reality (as the miami vice movie tried to do, being a boring movie made for reality lived by cops)? Having Crockett and Tubbs, maybe some (not many) different ideas could be developed....not necessary the two retired cops that came from the nursing home to solve a misterious case...
 

I think you and me are the only 2 people that have watched Fast Lane and enjoyed it. Although especially the pilot was a total rip off of Vice's pilot

I can give you my opinion about opportunities and issues with a reboot:

Opportunities:

- Music. Believe it or not, with Synthwave music, you can bring an updated, modern version of Vice's music style to the screen again. And we all know how important the music was. Even Hammer is bringing out new material, so he can be brought back, although unlikely.

- The characters: Crockett, Tubbs, Castillo are strong written characters that could still work today.

- Miami: a different city than in the 80's obviously, but still a diverse, amazing city that never is boring to photograph. 

- Actors: DJ looks more fit than at the end of Nash in 2001. It is a real shame that he wasted 10-15 years with crap and that he looked unfit (fat) for at least that same time too (just look at Moondance Alexander, where he looks like John Candy) but now he looks very slim and fit. 

- Fashion: the 80's look could be brought back in a modern style; you are seeing some of the Vice colours back in fashion, obviously in a different tailored version.

- Nostalgia: With all the crap that is going on in the world, I believe people are starving for some good old fashioned entertainment. It is the reason why a Nash reboot could work too.

- TV landscape: production values of Netflix productions etc are fantastic for a lot of series; there is a lot more money in television/ streaming services these days. 

Issues:

- Storyline: DJ said it well; with all the data and cell phones; how realistic is it for Crockett to be an undercover cop driving around in a Ferrari without being caught within 48 hours? It was already a stretch in the 80's, it is practically impossible in today's world

- PMT: hasn't done anything in 20 years, which is quite incredible. If he will come back, will a studio even accept this, besides maybe a cameo?

- Drug scene: Coke was glamorous in its own way; it was for the rich and famous, coke dealers were kind of like celebrities. There was something 'cool' about drugs in those days. When we talk about drugs today, it is opioid addicted crackheads who are living like zombies on the streets, shooting up Chinese/Mexican crap in their veins. How can we make this look 'cool?'

- MTV style; this was very much of the time with artists getting their music in Vice episodes. Will this work in 2021 and beyond? What kind of music would we get? Kanye instead of Phil Collins? It would be more like a Bad Boys movie instead of a stylized TV series

- Woke culture: probably the biggest issue. Vice in the 80's was so much different than today; a lot of 80's content/dialogue etc would be considered completely unacceptable today.

 

My conclusion is that it is possible, but we need to change our expectations: an 80's style Vice will never be back. It simply won't work nor will a studio even try unless they make it in a crappy 'Starsky and Hutch remake' version, made for laughs...No thanks, not interested to see people make a version where they will take the piss out of our favorite series.

 

I do like the way the Nash reboot is kind of making fun of millenials (according to the trailer) which is making the old cops look like the cool guys. This could have worked with Crockett and Tubbs too, but maybe also in a TV movie instead of a series, because the joke would get old soon after a few episodes.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[jpaul1]

3 hours ago, MennoinSF said:

I think you and me are the only 2 people that have watched Fast Lane and enjoyed it. Although especially the pilot was a total rip off of Vice's pilot

I can give you my opinion about opportunities and issues with a reboot:

Opportunities:

- Nostalgia: With all the crap that is going on in the world, I believe people are starving for some good old fashioned entertainment. It is the reason why a Nash reboot could work too.

Issues:

- Storyline: DJ said it well; with all the data and cell phones; how realistic is it for Crockett to be an undercover cop driving around in a Ferrari without being caught within 48 hours? It was already a stretch in the 80's, it is practically impossible in today's world

- Drug scene: Coke was glamorous in its own way; it was for the rich and famous, coke dealers were kind of like celebrities. There was something 'cool' about drugs in those days. When we talk about drugs today, it is opioid addicted crackheads who are living like zombies on the streets, shooting up Chinese/Mexican crap in their veins. How can we make this look 'cool?'

totally agree with the fact that with the world being quite gloomy right now, a good series would be a good thing

regarding the undercover cop. this is timeless. personnally i think it could work. but in 2021 the car is not mandatory, definitely not. i think with a good plot, with quality stories you can skip the fancy car

i strongly disagree with the drug . nowaday drugs with all their variants can give amazing deep human stories IMO. they could tackle the question of hard drugs legalization for example

personnally what i expect from a reboot is a highly realistic series, with high quality human stories. and if the cops stop to drink a cocktail from time to time it would be perfect

Edited November 22, 2021 by jpaul1

[Mr. Calderon]

3 hours ago, MennoinSF said:

I think you and me are the only 2 people that have watched Fast Lane and enjoyed it. Although especially the pilot was a total rip off of Vice's pilot

 

Maybe. Maybeeee.... I have the first and only season here somewhere... the whole series was a total ripoff or i would say, updated version of vice. The pilot story was more detailed than MV´s, even being a ripoff. Theres a story around of the producer being a MV fan too. It was cancelled simply it was too expensive. And Van Ray and Deaq were reasonable as C and T clones.

But at least, with a secret division of police (like on fastlane), we wouldnt need to get worried if DJ or PMT are old to be on the police. They have the right expertise. 

The problem with Vice these days i think, """"everybody""" is doing drugs, ano no one seems to be surprised by that. Its not a taboo anymore. Would Crockett and Tubbs be treated as "hey, man...f*** off, let snort my powder alone...i know it will gonna kill me....i dont need you to act as my nanny"...

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Mr. Calderon

[Mr. Calderon]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:03 PM, Robbie C. said:

What I'm saying is the level of violence associated with major cartel activity has changed so much since Vice's time it wouldn't play well on TV. And the volume of trafficking has increased exponentially since the '80s as well, and diversified in the bargain. And given the political sensitivities around programming these days you'd see the Vice squad chasing poor white Southern meth cooks most days, or maybe the token generic Eastern European type. I stand by my contention that a reboot of any kind is a stupid idea. It might have a home on one of the streaming services, but if they ever get around to doing a proper version of Don Winslow's cartel trilogy in that market Vice would be pushed aside pretty quickly.

Well...the level of violence here in my rainforest allows me to say (since more than 10 years ago i claim that), if Vice would be made in Rio, before the first comercial interval they would steal the ferrari and crocket and tubbs would be dead inside a "microwave" (a stack of tires on fire), before reach half of the episode....

Gotta agree Vice was a cutting edge cop show in the 80´s but today, the world lost its innocence....

[AzVice]

i was going to post this video. i agree with Don, Miami Vice was a different time and place. i think it should be left there. i have a feeling it wouldn't be successful anyway

[Mr. Calderon]

Take a look, Menno, my friend...
 

 

[RedDragon86]

The "Twin Peaks" reboot worked, season 3 was excellent.

Edited November 23, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Mr. Calderon]

On 11/20/2021 at 2:02 AM, MennoinSF said:

At this stage, I would even settle just to see a picture of them; laughing, having a drink and enjoying each other's friendship.

 

Regarding the movie: the biggest lack was chemistry between Foxx and Farrel. And the chemistry is exactly what Vice made so good as a series. 

I think vice Lost its mojo after they started tô make Episodes more focused on Crockett or only crockett...

Edited November 24, 2021 by Mr. Calderon

[Robbie C.]

9 hours ago, Mr. Calderon said:

I think vice Lost his mojo after they started tô make Episodes more focused on Crockett or only crockett...

Very much so. When it became the Sonny Crockett Show they lost many opportunities.

[jpaul1]

it's not the first time i hear DJ speaking of PMT in kind words. This is something i find really cool

[Augusta]

I doubt no longer.  I'm hoping it never happens.

I saw a commercial on my tv for the USA cable network channel..  All four of the principle actors appear to be in the movie, reprising their characters.  Cheech and Don are dashing around (stiffly, because they seem to be PLAYING over-the-hill, out-of-retirement pals who have all the perpetrators looking shocked on-screen and asking "you're back?").  

I don't know about their acting, because I haven't seen the movie.  But the two actors look AWFUL---I mean they look like the typical Hollywood celebs who really caved in to the stress and abuse of that celeb-profession, and haven't succeeded in wearing well like those very few and rare people we see come out of that world.  
Maybe their "look" during the action scenes was intentional, to emphasize two retirees who can still own San Francisco like they used to... or maybe the two guys really have developed that craggy arthritic exterior in real life.  
I was shocked.  Noooo, I don't want to see Don Johnson in a Miami Vice piece of any kind, if he's going to look THIS worn down.  Let me keep my good fairytale memories of the show, and keep my DVD box.

[jpaul1]

personnally i liked the stuff. i mean we see two humans nothing else. what did you want. hollywood polished out of touch moron? no thanks. DJ coming out is only for the fans. He has it all, family, hyper fame, money. if he does these things it's only with the perspective to please the fans. he has an age to be retired, he doesn't give a f.. so with all due respect i find you a bit harsch with these pals

[Ferrariman]

On 11/22/2021 at 4:11 PM, Mr. Calderon said:

Take a look, Menno, my friend...
 

 

“Fastlane” was a poor attempt at a Miami Vice ripoff. The plot was almost identical to the Vice pilot and Peter what’s his name’s stubble looked more like he fell face first in the dirt.  I won’t even mention Bill Bellamy’s line  dancing scene.   Can’t believe it actually lasted 22 episodes. 

[Augusta]

5 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

personnally i liked the stuff. i mean we see two humans nothing else. what did you want. hollywood polished out of touch moron? no thanks. DJ coming out is only for the fans. He has it all, family, hyper fame, money. if he does these things it's only with the perspective to please the fans. he has an age to be retired, he doesn't give a f.. so with all due respect i find you a bit harsch with these pals

 

Respect acknowledged and returned, JPaul. You seem like a fan, and I know fans guard their celebs on impulse. 

I am almost never a fan of actors and actresses. I honor them for their technical skills when they're doing that fantastic job on camera, but I can hardly ever sympathize with them in their celebrity lives.  So I love the 'ole Star Trek series, but I don't line up for Kirk's autograph or value a Trek Fan ComiCon.  Fans of DJ, etc will see only fame and success, I understand that concept---but I see the oddball marriages and erosion of a human that the money never seems to prevent, in a market that a few performers come out once in a while and admit is a mean and slanted market.  SOME, (a rare few) celebs protected themselves and navigated the destructive profession very well,... and I'll keep it real and point out my disappointment when I see the many who didn't wear so well.    
Not harsh to say it.  Just real.  

Oh, I haven't seen the Nash movie, so I give the benefit of presumption that they both did a great acting job as those characters.  But I just don't see the value in Don appearing in Vice if he's that crusty and worn.  Better to use your age and mileage on a new role somewhere else that age and mileage can earn awards in, and not be nostalgic about MV.

[Mr. Calderon]

6 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

“Fastlane” was a poor attempt at a Miami Vice ripoff. The plot was almost identical to the Vice pilot and Peter what’s his name’s stubble looked more like he fell face first in the dirt.  I won’t even mention Bill Bellamy’s line  dancing scene.   Can’t believe it actually lasted 22 episodes. 

I like It. What can i do If im disgusting?! Lol

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Mr. Calderon said:

What can i do If im disgusting?! Lol

Be good at it!  

[RedDragon86]

Dick Wolf, in particular was worse than ripping off the show, he ruined it.

[Dadrian]

2 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Dick Wolf, in particular was worse than ripping off the show, he ruined it.

Well at least he was aptly named  

[RedDragon86]

45 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Well at least he was aptly named  

True

Edited November 30, 2021 by RedDragon86

[RedDragon86]

The reason why season 3 had a pretty good run, sensible episodes etc was because he as just a co-producer. When he took full charge in 4 he had no respect for the show, made a complete pigs ear of it.

Even Don Johnson got him sacked.

Edited November 30, 2021 by RedDragon86