Episode #4 "Hit List"

[Bren10]

On 5/20/2019 at 10:40 PM, vicegirl85 said:

Maybe so, but obviously Caroline didn't want to be the spouse of a certain type of person.

There are things like secondary gains when the significant other is a rock star, but maybe not so much when the S.O. is a cop making $400/week.  Filling the gaps of adult companionship, sex, and caring for a child is difficult when there's one person in the marriage who is never there.

So if being a Vice Detective made Sonny a millionaire it would be OK if he cheated? What is the salary cap for cheating with permission? Us male members really need to know. But just to be clear, we're not talking about the kind of cheating that is just for kicks. I'm talking about scenarios where Crockett, or Tubbs, or anybody uses flirtatious means to accomplish an objective in terms of building a case and making a bust. This is not for personal gratification. Btw I would like to make a point regarding Crockett et al. As far as expecting everybody else to cope, you have to understand that Sonny has, or believes he has (it's debatable) moral superiority because he is giving as much of himself as a human being possibly can to improve society. He risks being killed or crippled every day. Only someone in military service in a hostile environment can really compare in layman's terms. And all the people who are complaining about what he is doing risk nothing in doing their 9 to 5 jobs. And the fact is the world needs Sonny Crocketts. Somebody has to be that guy putting himself out there or law enforcement simply doesn't work. So to him, why should he have to change to accomodate anybody else, when he should actually be appreciated and lauded for doing a job so you won't have to? Btw, this is also partially Vincent Hanna's problem in Heat, so it is a Mann-erism.

[Robbie C.]

I look at it more from the aspect of if you get involved with them it gives a defense attorney a clear window to get the case tossed out. Evidence gathered that way is often considered tainted, which is why electronic methods (wiretaps and so on) are preferred. Flirting is one thing, sleeping with the target is something else, at least in law enforcement terms. That's one reason the honey trap is often an espionage/blackmail "go to" move. Look at Valerie's choices and the repercussions there.

[Bren10]

Yes but we can't also discount that this is a fictional noir tv series where the protagonists have to get romantically involved with somebody at some point. I'm not saying this sort of thing happens all the time. Of course it can create problems legally, especially with the right wrong lawyer. Just the same though, you can't tell me that no case has ever progressed/been solved without this kind of personal "involvement" either. Cops put people away while breaking every other rule at times as well.

[mjcmmv]

11 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

So if being a Vice Detective made Sonny a millionaire it would be OK if he cheated? What is the salary cap for cheating with permission? Us male members really need to know. But just to be clear, we're not talking about the kind of cheating that is just for kicks. I'm talking about scenarios where Crockett, or Tubbs, or anybody uses flirtatious means to accomplish an objective in terms of building a case and making a bust. This is not for personal gratification. Btw I would like to make a point regarding Crockett et al. As far as expecting everybody else to cope, you have to understand that Sonny has, or believes he has (it's debatable) moral superiority because he is giving as much of himself as a human being possibly can to improve society. He risks being killed or crippled every day. Only someone in military service in a hostile environment can really compare in layman's terms. And all the people who are complaining about what he is doing risk nothing in doing their 9 to 5 jobs. And the fact is the world needs Sonny Crocketts. Somebody has to be that guy putting himself out there or law enforcement simply doesn't work. So to him, why should he have to change to accomodate anybody else, when he should actually be appreciated and lauded for doing a job so you won't have to? Btw, this is also partially Vincent Hanna's problem in Heat, so it is a Mann-erism.

No judgement, just think his quest for justice, at any cost, is never going to support a marriage or a relationship. 

Rock Stars are a whole 'nother story! 

 

[Robbie C.]

2 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Yes but we can't also discount that this is a fictional noir tv series where the protagonists have to get romantically involved with somebody at some point. I'm not saying this sort of thing happens all the time. Of course it can create problems legally, especially with the right wrong lawyer. Just the same though, you can't tell me that no case has ever progressed/been solved without this kind of personal "involvement" either. Cops put people away while breaking every other rule at times as well.

I'm not discounting that, nor do I state it never happens in real life. I just think a better illustration of the point lies with Valerie and Sacco than Crockett. As far as I can recall, the only person he cheated with on camera was Gina. He'd flirt, but he even avoided getting involved with Callie and backed off from Margaret once he determined she's actually a player.

[mjcmmv]

14 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

I look at it more from the aspect of if you get involved with them it gives a defense attorney a clear window to get the case tossed out. Evidence gathered that way is often considered tainted, which is why electronic methods (wiretaps and so on) are preferred. Flirting is one thing, sleeping with the target is something else, at least in law enforcement terms. That's one reason the honey trap is often an espionage/blackmail "go to" move. Look at Valerie's choices and the repercussions there.

Yes, Valerie was out there, just like Artie Rollins was. And she was furious with Rico for calling her on it. He said, "You don't get paid to loosen anyone's sex collar", or something like that. 

[Robbie C.]

1 minute ago, mjcmmv said:

Yes, Valerie was out there, just like Artie Rollins was. And she was furious with Rico for calling her on it. He said, "You don't get paid to loosen anyone's sex collar", or something like that. 

Very much. And they're both shown as acting "beyond the pale" (more or less). I think this is one of those areas Vice did a lot of tip-toeing around. If you make Crockett a total dog (or leave room for that idea), you risk losing fans (especially in the 80s). Crockett had to be just available enough and steadfast/loyal enough at the same time, if that makes sense.

[mjcmmv]

4 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Very much. And they're both shown as acting "beyond the pale" (more or less). I think this is one of those areas Vice did a lot of tip-toeing around. If you make Crockett a total dog (or leave room for that idea), you risk losing fans (especially in the 80s). Crockett had to be just available enough and steadfast/loyal enough at the same time, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. Just the fact that we saw what we did on the show was a tremendous breakthrough for Network Television. Now, with the competition from Cable, that allows anything and everything, the show looks tame by comparison. 

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, Bren10 said:

So if being a Vice Detective made Sonny a millionaire it would be OK if he cheated? What is the salary cap for cheating with permission? Us male members really need to know. But just to be clear, we're not talking about the kind of cheating that is just for kicks. I'm talking about scenarios where Crockett, or Tubbs, or anybody uses flirtatious means to accomplish an objective in terms of building a case and making a bust. This is not for personal gratification. Btw I would like to make a point regarding Crockett et al. As far as expecting everybody else to cope, you have to understand that Sonny has, or believes he has (it's debatable) moral superiority because he is giving as much of himself as a human being possibly can to improve society. He risks being killed or crippled every day. Only someone in military service in a hostile environment can really compare in layman's terms. And all the people who are complaining about what he is doing risk nothing in doing their 9 to 5 jobs. And the fact is the world needs Sonny Crocketts. Somebody has to be that guy putting himself out there or law enforcement simply doesn't work. So to him, why should he have to change to accomodate anybody else, when he should actually be appreciated and lauded for doing a job so you won't have to? Btw, this is also partially Vincent Hanna's problem in Heat, so it is a Mann-erism.

No, making Sonny a millionaire wouldn't have made cheating "OK" from my POV.  Nor do I think it was OK for Mick Jagger, just because he was a rock star.  And I don't mean this in a cynical way, but Jerry Hall was able to have a very comfortable lifestyle as Mick Jaggers' longtime lover and later, his wife.  So if she turned a blind eye to other women he may have gotten involved with on the road, it possibly could have been in the knowledge that the comfortable life she lived (and the four children they had together) could have been disrupted if she'd called him out on every encounter/suspected encounter. They did end up splitting up after he had another child with someone else (perhaps proving your point).  Hall’s divorce settlement with Jagger was reported to be in excess of $40 million.   

As far as Crockett, Tubbs, etc., using flirtatious means to get close to a player/ be accepted by the one(s) his team is building a case against, of course that is helpful and sometimes necessary.  Actually crossing over into a sexual relationship seems like it may risk tainting the case, though, if it comes to a trial.

I definitely do understand and believe that Sonny is convinced he is giving as much of himself as humanly possible in order to protect society.  He is putting his life on the line every day, sometimes every hour of every day.  I get that 100%.  As far as a code of ethics, I can also see how the belief that he is sacrificing a lot while others aren't, allows him to feel that it's OK for him to make some questionable choices, because in his mind at least, he's doing it for the greater good.

I'm thinking of what Caroline may have expected when she chose a husband:  someone who would participate in raising their son and who would be available in a way that was dependable.  Like many young people, I feel sure that both of them entered into marriage with unrealistic ideas.  Undercover police work meant Sonny would never have a regular, dependable schedule, and surely she agreed to him taking that position when it was offered.  Later on the undependability and erratic home life may have bothered her worse than it originally did.  Plus she mentions his drinking.  We saw that Sonny was capable of abusing alcohol.  Regardless of whether he was actually an alcoholic, living with someone who is a binge drinker is not easy.  I feel like many factors put the Crocketts' marriage under stress.  But Caroline made the decision to leave, even though she did still love Sonny.  She didn't want to live with the fear Sonny could be killed--or that bad guys could come after their son and after her to get to him.  I think she recognized what mjcmmv said (above):   

Quote

No judgement, just think his quest for justice, at any cost, is never going to support a marriage or a relationship.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by vicegirl85

[Bren10]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

Very much. And they're both shown as acting "beyond the pale" (more or less). I think this is one of those areas Vice did a lot of tip-toeing around. If you make Crockett a total dog (or leave room for that idea), you risk losing fans (especially in the 80s). Crockett had to be just available enough and steadfast/loyal enough at the same time, if that makes sense.

That especially makes sense when you take into account all the Caitlyn hate. That took away all his availability. Love at First Sight may be a good example of what we've been talking about here as well. Sonny had to deliberately go on dates to solve that case and Caitlyn had to deal with it. They even had a good sex toy laugh!

[mjcmmv]

32 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

No, making Sonny a millionaire wouldn't have made cheating "OK" from my POV.  Nor do I think it was OK for Mick Jagger, just because he was a rock star.  And I don't mean this in a cynical way, but Jerry Hall was able to have a very comfortable lifestyle as Mick Jaggers' longtime lover and later, his wife.  So if she turned a blind eye to other women he may have gotten involved with on the road, it possibly could have been in the knowledge that the comfortable life she lived (and the four children they had together) could have been disrupted if she'd called him out on every encounter/suspected encounter. They did end up splitting up after he had another child with someone else (perhaps proving your point).  Hall’s divorce settlement with Jagger was reported to be in excess of $40 million.   

As far as Crockett, Tubbs, etc., using flirtatious means to get close to a player/ be accepted by the one(s) his team is building a case against, of course that is helpful and sometimes necessary.  Actually crossing over into a sexual relationship seems like it may risk tainting the case, though, if it comes to a trial.

I definitely do understand and believe that Sonny is convinced he is giving as much of himself as humanly possible in order to protect society.  He is putting his life on the line every day, sometimes every hour of every day.  I get that 100%.  As far as a code of ethics, I can also see how the belief that he is sacrificing a lot while others aren't, allows him to feel that it's OK for him to make some questionable choices, because in his mind at least, he's doing it for the greater good.

I'm thinking of what Caroline may have expected when she chose a husband:  someone who would participate in raising their son and who would be available in a way that was dependable.  Like many young people, I feel sure that both of them entered into marriage with unrealistic ideas.  Undercover police work meant Sonny would never have a regular, dependable schedule, and surely she agreed to him taking that position when it was offered.  Later on the undependability and erratic home life may have bothered her worse than it originally did.  Plus she mentions his drinking.  We saw that Sonny was capable of abusing alcohol.  Regardless of whether he was actually an alcoholic, living with someone who is a binge drinker is not easy.  I feel like many factors put the Crocketts' marriage under stress.  But Caroline made the decision to leave, even though she did still love Sonny.  She didn't want to live with the fear Sonny could be killed--or that bad guys could come after their son and after her to get to him.  I think she recognized what mjcmmv said (above):   

 

Yes, Vicegirl...the drinking!

Sonny had so many hangovers in the first season, I was beginning to wonder if the department would insist he go into rehab! 

Of course, I realize the writers showed this to add to the realism and create sympathy. It gave us a character that was flawed and broken...someone in pain!

I know I felt protective...sympathetic, as if he had the right to be this way! 

Caroline still loved Sonny, but I'm sure she was fed up and knew their marriage was hurting both her and their son. She got out and I guess we should have all felt she made the right choice. 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by mjcmmv

[mjcmmv]

4 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

That especially makes sense when you take into account all the Caitlyn hate. That took away all his availability. Love at First Sight may be a good example of what we've been talking about here as well. Sonny had to deliberately go on dates to solve that case and Caitlyn had to deal with it. They even had a good sex toy laugh!

Interesting thought.  Fans liked and were used to Crockett having a  "roving eye" and his marriage to Caitlyn put a stop to it. 

[Robbie C.]

46 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

That especially makes sense when you take into account all the Caitlyn hate. That took away all his availability. Love at First Sight may be a good example of what we've been talking about here as well. Sonny had to deliberately go on dates to solve that case and Caitlyn had to deal with it. They even had a good sex toy laugh!

Very much so. That's one of the reasons I always really liked Caitlyn and that arc.

[ViceFanMan]

On 5/19/2019 at 7:53 PM, vicegirl85 said:

Honestly I would have liked to see Sonny and Caroline get back together, too.  I never thought it would happen because I thought she had moved past her disappointment and hurt over the failed marriage, certainly by the time she and Bob had become an item.  And I didn't think Sonny and Caroline wanted the same things from marriage.

I did think he and Gina could have had a future together, although there are problems that way as well, as Bren10 has previously discussed very well.  Ultimately Sonny would have had to decide to leave undercover work if he was going to be married to a person instead of the job (IMO).  As much as I wanted that to happen (for he and Gina to get together) I don't know that the two of them could have been successful in the long term.

Prologue: Discussing and digressing characters as if they were real, and pretending the changing of writers & producers had nothing to do with the character development is always interesting and even fun—although in reality probably somewhat ridiculous (and trying to read WAY too much into it all), as I doubt the writers, producers, or even actors ever intended for fans to be dissecting the show this much 30 years later, lol!  Little did they know, the impact of MV would have us ‘salivating’ over every little show-related “morsel” like there was no other show! It’s awesome!!   

But...diving in again: I always liked and respected Caroline, and in this 2-part episode you get & feel the emotions, love, and care these two had for each other. But, Caroline knew her main responsibility was to their son. Sonny (at this point in the show...aka early on) still didn’t quite get that...or didn’t want to. Basically, he hadn’t “grown up” yet & was still wanting to play cocaine-busting cowboy.

In my opinion, once they had a child, Sonny should have transferred to a less dangerous dept or position, whether he liked or wanted to or not. Once you have a kid, it’s no longer about you...for the next 30 years!  Caroline was more mature in their marriage...but I agree she also didn’t fully understand the life & pressures of an undercover vice cop in Miami. 

Gina did...as she was one herself, and had been there for Crockett (and visa-versa) in situations and ways that Caroline could not. Sonny and Gina understood each other, understood the job & what it entailed, and had a connection with each other (both emotionally and sexually) that no one else on that show had—and that connection lasted from the pilot to the series finale!

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again...by the time the show was in the last couple seasons, Crockett was different. He was more mature, was wanting to change & be there (and be a true father) for Billy, he wanted a true and real relationship/marriage. But that takes time—and even years to truly know & “get” someone. Caitlin was an infatuation and a ridiculously rushed marriage. Sonny wanted it, and for it to be better than him & Caroline’s marriage...but they barely knew each other. If there ever was a wife that didn’t understand an undercover cop’s life, it was Caitlin!! Even before she was killed, their marriage was doomed. 

Gina knew Sonny almost better than he thought he knew himself...she knew him inside and out. By the end of the show Crockett was burned out of his job and the horrible chaos it brought on...he was ready for a change. I do not think Sonny would have ever become some 9-5 office guy...I don’t mean that. But I do think he could have done something less dangerous (yet still in law enforcement or criminology) and allowed more time for a wife and Billy. I fully believe he and Gina could have left and started fresh somewhere else. 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

On 5/22/2019 at 12:54 AM, mjcmmv said:

Yes, Vicegirl...the drinking!

Sonny had so many hangovers in the first season, I was beginning to wonder if the department would insist he go into rehab! 

Of course, I realize the writers showed this to add to the realism and create sympathy. It gave us a character that was flawed and broken...someone in pain!

I know I felt protective...sympathetic, as if he had the right to be this way! 

Caroline still loved Sonny, but I'm sure she was fed up and knew their marriage was hurting both her and their son. She got out and I guess we should have all felt she made the right choice. 

 

He didn't have any hangovers in season 1 

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

He didn't have any hangovers in season 1 

Lol...definitely looks like he’s having one here, and I’m sure he probably did have a few hangovers, but I think some of the “realism” interjected in his character was more from him supposedly being up all night long with no sleep and probably little food...not necessarily from being drunk. They couldn’t afford to be 3 sheets-to-the-wind too much of the time in order to stay alert and aware of what was going on around them. The producers & original writers even had Don Johnson go on some all night vice operations & stake outs to truly get a feel of what it was really like. He walked in to a production meeting looking like this, and they knew he was right for the part. 

[Robbie C.]

Just think of the pilot - "I was up until 3AM trading shots of tequila with the little bozo." It was supposed to be part of Burnett's cover in the early days, I think. The hard drinking, hard driving transport guy.

[mjcmmv]

5 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Lol...definitely looks like he’s having one here, and I’m sure he probably did have a few hangovers, but I think some of the “realism” interjected in his character was more from him supposedly being up all night long with no sleep and probably little food...not necessarily from being drunk. They couldn’t afford to be 3 sheets-to-the-wind too much of the time in order to stay alert and aware of what was going on around them. The producers & original writers even had Don Johnson go on some all night vice operations & stake outs to truly get a feel of what it was really like. He walked in to a production meeting looking like this, and they knew he was right for the part. 

I wasn't trying to say that DJ had a real hang over; I agree it was just DJ, adding some color to the character.

The writers did put in references to Sonny's drinking in the scripts and DJ took that fact and ran with it. As Robbie C. said, "Just think of the pilot - "I was up until 3AM trading shots of tequila with the little bozo." It was supposed to be part of Burnett's cover in the early days, I think. The hard drinking, hard driving transport guy."

Also, Caroline complains about his drinking in the pilot. 

•  

[Robbie C.]

38 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

I wasn't trying to say that DJ had a real hang over; I agree it was just DJ, adding some color to the character.

The writers did put in references to Sonny's drinking in the scripts and DJ took that fact and ran with it. As Robbie C. said, "Just think of the pilot - "I was up until 3AM trading shots of tequila with the little bozo." It was supposed to be part of Burnett's cover in the early days, I think. The hard drinking, hard driving transport guy."

Also, Caroline complains about his drinking in the pilot. 

•  

I always took Caroline's complaint with a shaker of salt. Had it been an issue, you can bet Castillo would have said something. I still think it was just early character color that diminished as the show progressed and Burnett evolved into something more than the transport guy.

[mjcmmv]

2 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

I always took Caroline's complaint with a shaker of salt. Had it been an issue, you can bet Castillo would have said something. I still think it was just early character color that diminished as the show progressed and Burnett evolved into something more than the transport guy.

I love how you always make me question my assumptions!

Well, I could be wrong, but I still see Crockett as a man who struggled with alcohol. The hint Caroline gave in that conversation, set the tone for me and led me to believe he drank more than he should. 

Some alcoholics are good at hiding their addiction. They didn't show him drinking during the day, or squirreling away a bottle in the Ferrari. And Rico and his friends didn't seem to be worried. But the writers did show him drinking to excess when he was especially stressed. He seemed to turn to alcohol to calm himself or to forget.

-In the pilot, he was "half in the bag", as his former partner put it, when he arrived at Billy's birthday party and announced Eddie had been killed. 

-After he shot the boy in Child's Play, he was drowning his sorrows on the St. Vitus. 

-When Caitlin died (justified for sure) he was totally gone.

-Burnett was "wasted" in Redemption in Blood-I think the writers wanted to show us the dreams and returning memories he was having, were making him crazy! 

-In Free Fall-he's in the bar-this time, during the day, before he meets with Rico to decide if they should go to South America, he has the drinks lined up in front of him. And if you look at his eyes, he looks like he's about to fall asleep, or pass out.... 

 

I'm sure there are others examples, but that's all I can think of.  

Okay, Robbie C., I'm going to pour myself a glass of wine now while I wait for your comments!!

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by mjcmmv

[vicegirl85]

47 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

I love how you always make me question my assumptions!

Well, I could be wrong, but I still see Crockett as a man who struggled with alcohol. The hint Caroline gave in that conversation, set the tone for me and led me to believe he drank more than he should. 

Some alcoholics are good at hiding their addiction. They didn't show him drinking during the day, or squirreling away a bottle in the Ferrari. And Rico and his friends didn't seem to be worried. But the writers did show him drinking to excess when he was especially stressed. He seemed to turn to alcohol to calm himself or to forget.

-In the pilot, he was "half in the bag", as his former partner put it, when he arrived at Billy's birthday party and announced Eddie had been killed. 

-After he shot the boy in Child's Play, he was drowning his sorrows on the St. Vitus. 

-When Caitlin died (justified for sure) he was totally gone.

-Burnett was "wasted" in Redemption in Blood-I think the writers wanted to show us the dreams and returning memories he was having, were making him crazy! 

-In Free Fall-he's in the bar-this time, during the day, before he meets with Rico to decide if they should go to South America, he has the drinks lined up in front of him. And if you look at his eyes, he looks like he's about to fall asleep, or pass out.... 

I'm sure there are others examples, but that's all I can think of.  

Okay, Robbie C., I'm going to pour myself a glass of wine, now while I wait for your comments!!

100% this is the way I feel.

Yes, during the early days of the show, I think Crockett (when working undercover as Burnett) very likely faked some of his drinking--after all, he had to stay sharp in order to maintain his cover while still doing his job.  And he was the one who spoke about doing things "by the book" so that his work would stand up in court.   When he laid down on the bench (like the picture shows) he may well have been tired and gravel-eyed from being up all night working, with no or minimal alcohol intake.

But as mjcmmv says, there were many times when he wasn't working, but was dealing with terrible stress, that he used alcohol to numb the pain.  When he was working he had to stay at least mostly sober, but in a safe environment (i.e. family/friends/alone on the boat) he could let himself go if the memories couldn't be pushed into the far recesses of his consciousness.  To get back to Caroline and her comment, I took it to mean that she'd been around him enough to have seen those times when he drank to the point of passing out to avoid remembering the terrible things he'd seen and the friends he'd lost.

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

I always took Caroline's complaint with a shaker of salt. Had it been an issue, you can bet Castillo would have said something. I still think it was just early character color that diminished as the show progressed and Burnett evolved into something more than the transport guy.

Oh, I don't think he drank on the job (or very minimally if he did).  He probably had to do a certain amount to give believability to his cover identity, but in order to keep his wits about him, he had to be very careful.  The excess drinking I remember him doing was mainly off the job and when he was under tremendous stress.  But that's where I think Caroline was coming from.

[mjcmmv]

38 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

100% this is the way I feel.

Yes, during the early days of the show, I think Crockett (when working undercover as Burnett) very likely faked some of his drinking--after all, he had to stay sharp in order to maintain his cover while still doing his job.  And he was the one who spoke about doing things "by the book" so that his work would stand up in court.   When he laid down on the bench (like the picture shows) he may well have been tired and gravel-eyed from being up all night working, with no or minimal alcohol intake.

But as mjcmmv says, there were many times when he wasn't working, but was dealing with terrible stress, that he used alcohol to numb the pain.  When he was working he had to stay at least mostly sober, but in a safe environment (i.e. family/friends/alone on the boat) he could let himself go if the memories couldn't be pushed into the far recesses of his consciousness.  To get back to Caroline and her comment, I took it to mean that she'd been around him enough to have seen those times when he drank to the point of passing out to avoid remembering the terrible things he'd seen and the friends he'd lost.

Exactly! 

[mjcmmv]

40 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

100% this is the way I feel.

Yes, during the early days of the show, I think Crockett (when working undercover as Burnett) very likely faked some of his drinking--after all, he had to stay sharp in order to maintain his cover while still doing his job.  And he was the one who spoke about doing things "by the book" so that his work would stand up in court.   When he laid down on the bench (like the picture shows) he may well have been tired and gravel-eyed from being up all night working, with no or minimal alcohol intake.

But as mjcmmv says, there were many times when he wasn't working, but was dealing with terrible stress, that he used alcohol to numb the pain.  When he was working he had to stay at least mostly sober, but in a safe environment (i.e. family/friends/alone on the boat) he could let himself go if the memories couldn't be pushed into the far recesses of his consciousness.  To get back to Caroline and her comment, I took it to mean that she'd been around him enough to have seen those times when he drank to the point of passing out to avoid remembering the terrible things he'd seen and the friends he'd lost.

Yes, he was smart enough to realize alcohol would numb him and put him at a disadvantage. Good point!

[Robbie C.]

Let me put it this way...I don't think Crockett drank any more than the characters in Criminal Minds or Blue Bloods are shown drinking. In fact he might actually drink less than they do. We rarely see Crockett slamming multiple drinks or anything of that sort.

The impression I have of Caroline is that she would think anything aside from a glass of wine with Sunday dinner would qualify as binge drinking. She's described in the pilot script as being in her late 20s, so she's about six years younger than Sonny (give or take...which means he would have met her after he got out of the Marines). We also have to keep in mind the context of the times. In those days, grief counseling was something that happened to other people, especially if you were a cop. If you accept the 'Sonny is an avatar for UC work' model, there's simply no way they could really have him enter counseling. Even today, such services are drastically shortchanged for cops. Coming out of the sports/military culture that produced him, Sonny would see alcohol as a tool both for celebrating and dealing with grief and loss. It was also, I think, a way for him to express emotions he might otherwise not share or put on display. Don't forget, in just about every case we see him drinking to express pain about a loss, not anger or anything else. In the climate of the 80s, that was about the only way a macho main character could show pain, cry, or convey loss.

Had it been seen as a problem within the context of the time and place, I'm sure Castillo would have said something. Keep in mind, though, that in the mid-80s drinking wasn't registering as a social epidemic in the same way drugs were. Here, as just about everywhere else, Vice was a reflection of its time and place.