Episode #4 "Hit List"

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

I agree, for sure. I imagined Crockett and Gina getting together so many times!! She understood him! Glad you feel the same!

The writers surprisingly  ignored the rest of the cast in Freefall, and that really made me mad. So unfair to the Fans, the actors and the story itself. 

 

Completely agree!!  

[mjcmmv]

18 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by mjcmmv

[mjcmmv]

Great discussion!! Thanks again!!! 

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, mjcmmv said:

Great discussion!! Thanks again!!! 

It’s always fun discussing and digressing characters and episodes!  

[Robbie C.]

10 hours ago, mjcmmv said:

I agree, for sure. I imagined Crockett and Gina getting together so many times!! She understood him! Glad you feel the same!

The writers surprisingly  ignored the rest of the cast in Freefall, and that really made me mad. So unfair to the Fans, the actors and the story itself. 

 

This doesn't surprise me considering various writers had ignored the bulk of the cast for most of the show. I think they simply played Freefall the way the series had finally ended up - focusing almost totally on DJ and a bit on PMT.

[mjcmmv]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

This doesn't surprise me considering various writers had ignored the bulk of the cast for most of the show. I think they simply played Freefall the way the series had finally ended up - focusing almost totally on DJ and a bit on PMT.

Even Castillo got short changed! 

[Robbie C.]

18 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Even Castillo got short changed! 

Yeah, and all this does is point out what happens when you don't have a good producer or consistent show direction for an entire series run. Vice is in some ways a really powerful collection of "what might have been" scenarios.

[ViceFanMan]

Switching back to the actual topic and/or characters of the episode—I’ve always wondered what ever became of Ryan St. Leon...the original Billy Crockett?   I don’t think there was much after MV. 

[mjcmmv]

13 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Switching back to the actual topic and/or characters of the episode—I’ve always wondered what ever became of Ryan St. Leon...the original Billy Crockett?   I don’t think there was much after MV. 

Hmm, I have no idea! I get the feeing they switched the actor as the "kid" got older. Must be someone on this site who knows the answer! 

Here's what I found so far: https://miamivice.fandom.com/wiki/Ryan_St._Leon. Doesn't look as if he chose acting for a career. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by mjcmmv

[ViceFanMan]

17 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Hmm, I have no idea! I get the feeing they switched the actor as the "kid" got older. Must be someone on this site who knows the answer! 

Here's what I found so far: https://miamivice.fandom.com/wiki/Ryan_St._Leon. Doesn't look as if he chose acting for a career. 

Yeah he never did much acting beyond his couple episodes. I’ve just always wondered whatever happened to him, and if he knows what a huge fan base the show has—has he ever looked at this site or other past MV fansites (most of which are not around anymore)? 

[TheBustedFlush]

On 6/1/2019 at 1:19 AM, mjcmmv said:

I agree, for sure. I imagined Crockett and Gina getting together so many times!! She understood him! Glad you feel the same!

The writers surprisingly  ignored the rest of the cast in Freefall, and that really made me mad. So unfair to the Fans, the actors and the story itself. 

 

Definitely unrelated to the hit list, but yes I think Freefall itself was trying to be another prodigal son but without the same direction and budget and feel of season 2. I agree Castillo should have gotten a better ending ar some point in the season, but the writers weren't there and Mann was too good for Vice at that point. 

[summer84]

Tubbs wearing Crockett's first tie in "Give a Little"

Edited March 29, 2020 by summer84

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, summer84 said:

Tubbs wearing Crockett's first tie in "Give a Little"

I’ve noticed this (and other hand-me-downs) on the show. I just wasn’t brave enough to admit such minuscule observations. Kudos Summer!!  

[summer84]

10 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

I’ve noticed this (and other hand-me-downs) on the show. I just wasn’t brave enough to admit such minuscule observations. Kudos Summer!!  

Thanks! Aww, you should have posted them! I noticed first time, when miamivicelife shared the picture of Tubbs.

[Dadrian]

Okay here’s one:

In the Like a Hurricane teaser, Tommy Lowe is wearing Crockett’s striped button-up shirt from “Theresa”. Surprise: it looks amazing on Crockett and terrible on Tommy.  

I’ve said it before, but this is still my favorite shirt of the whole series. I’d pay a handsome reward to anybody who could help me find one like it.  

[Glades]

8 hours ago, Dadrian said:

I’ve said it before, but this is still my favorite shirt of the whole series. I’d pay a handsome reward to anybody who could help me find one like it.  

Have you ever considered looking for the appropriate cloth and having it sewn by a tailor? At least here where I live, that's not too expensive.

[RedDragon86]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:38 AM, Robbie C. said:

Let me put it this way...I don't think Crockett drank any more than the characters in Criminal Minds or Blue Bloods are shown drinking. In fact he might actually drink less than they do. We rarely see Crockett slamming multiple drinks or anything of that sort.

The impression I have of Caroline is that she would think anything aside from a glass of wine with Sunday dinner would qualify as binge drinking. She's described in the pilot script as being in her late 20s, so she's about six years younger than Sonny (give or take...which means he would have met her after he got out of the Marines). We also have to keep in mind the context of the times. In those days, grief counseling was something that happened to other people, especially if you were a cop. If you accept the 'Sonny is an avatar for UC work' model, there's simply no way they could really have him enter counseling. Even today, such services are drastically shortchanged for cops. Coming out of the sports/military culture that produced him, Sonny would see alcohol as a tool both for celebrating and dealing with grief and loss. It was also, I think, a way for him to express emotions he might otherwise not share or put on display. Don't forget, in just about every case we see him drinking to express pain about a loss, not anger or anything else. In the climate of the 80s, that was about the only way a macho main character could show pain, cry, or convey loss.

Had it been seen as a problem within the context of the time and place, I'm sure Castillo would have said something. Keep in mind, though, that in the mid-80s drinking wasn't registering as a social epidemic in the same way drugs were. Here, as just about everywhere else, Vice was a reflection of its time and place.

I think Sonny was a borderline alcoholic in season 1, I mean in the pilot instead of searching Leon's place he first takes out a beer of his fridge that's a sign of alcohol addiction.

I think his drinking was sort of implied, that he was drinking heavily without us seeing him do it. In my opinion Sonny was a big beer drinker one he left work. At the start of Home Invaders he looks like he has spent an night on the town with Oliver Reed.

Season 2 he seems to have it under control.

[Dadrian]

7 hours ago, Glades said:

Have you ever considered looking for the appropriate cloth and having it sewn by a tailor? At least here where I live, that's not too expensive.

I have. Can’t find the cloth ha. 

[ViceFanMan]

On 3/30/2020 at 7:56 AM, RedDragon86 said:

I think Sonny was a borderline alcoholic in season 1, I mean in the pilot instead of searching Leon's place he first takes out a beer of his fridge that's a sign of alcohol addiction.

I think his drinking was sort of implied, that he was drinking heavily without us seeing him do it. In my opinion Sonny was a big beer drinker one he left work. At the start of Home Invaders he looks like he has spent an night on the town with Oliver Reed.

Season 2 he seems to have it under control.

I do think that it was implied early on that Sonny may have been on the verge of becoming an alcoholic...but I actually don’t think beer was necessarily his drink of choice. I think taking the beer out of Leon’s fridge in the Pilot TV movie, was just a “1 of opportunity impulse” but it wasn’t implied he searched every suspect’s place in search of alcohol.  When he wanted to drink, he seemed to like whiskey, usually the drink black-jack. But, by season 2 he did seem, for the most part , to have it under control.  

[Matt5]

On 3/29/2020 at 10:01 PM, summer84 said:

Tubbs wearing Crockett's first tie in "Give a Little"

Great eye!

During the Burnett trilogy episodes in 1988 - DJ wore mainly Giorgio Armani ties.

[Adrian321]

One of the most enjoyable episodes in the entire series. A strong 9/10

Rodriguez's death was a very markable moment in the series. Jim Zubiena played his role VERY WELL, one of the best guest stars in the series too. We also get the first and only time when Tubbs drives the "Daytona", and gives us a popular scene with that........ car (I put it in " because it is a ####### Corvette, not a real Ferrari, and I can't stress enough how much of an insult this is). We also get smooth music and a beggining for the next episode, which is even better. Not to mention, the ending is quite sattisfying, while also leaving us hanged there, for the next part. 

A bonus aspect is the engaging and pleasent athmoshpere.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Adrian321
Forgot something

[ViceFanMan]

13 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

One of the most enjoyable episodes in the entire series. A strong 9/10

Rodriguez's death was a very markable moment in the series. Jim Zubiena played his role VERY WELL, one of the best guest stars in the series too. We also get the first and only time when Tubbs drives the "Daytona", and gives us a popular scene with that........ car (I put it in " because it is a ####### Corvette, not a real Ferrari, and I can't stress enough how much of an insult this is). We also get smooth music and a beggining for the next episode, which is even better. Not to mention, the ending is quite sattisfying, while also leaving us hanged there, for the next part. 

A bonus aspect is the engaging and pleasent athmoshpere.

This 2-part episode/story (Hit List & Calderone’s Demise...later retitled Calderone’s Return Pts. 1&2 for syndication) are actually my favorite episode/s of the series!! However, Season 2 is my favorite season overall.

But, in my opinion these 2 episodes have a little bit of it “all”! The music, action/assassinations/car chases, awesome  cars themselves (and I don’t care about the faux-Ferrari...it’s supposed to be a real Daytona in the show—gotta go with it ), drug lords, colors, fashion, cool & recurring plot with the Calderone-saga, plus you get a “taste” of both starting themes! “Hit” still has the original starting theme, while “Demise” first introduces the famous & well-known theme. 

Love both these episodes and they’ll always be 10/10 for me!!  

[Adrian321]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

This 2-part episode/story (Hit List & Calderone’s Demise...later retitled Calderone’s Return Pts. 1&2 for syndication) are actually my favorite episode/s of the series!! However, Season 2 is my favorite season overall.

But, in my opinion these 2 episodes have a little bit of it “all”! The music, action/assassinations/car chases, awesome  cars themselves (and I don’t care about the faux-Ferrari...it’s supposed to be a real Daytona in the show—gotta go with it ), drug lords, colors, fashion, cool & recurring plot with the Calderone-saga, plus you get a “taste” of both starting themes! “Hit” still has the original starting theme, while “Demise” first introduces the famous & well-known theme. 

Love both these episodes and they’ll always be 10/10 for me!!  

Well............ I like them too, but in my view there are even better episodes. Though, tbh, I like the next part of the Calderone-saga story more. To that one I give a 9.5/10, to this one, a 9/10. As many people stated correctly here, they kinda missed "that-something" to be a clean 10/10. I think it's the fact that it doesn't end the Calderone-saga, rather, it leaves it open for 2 more episodes in the future "Sons and Lovers" and "The afternoon plane". While I like Sons and lovers, I think they should have gave a stronger ending. Maybe they should've made the 2nd part longer so it can fit that hole content ? Anyways..... I find Smuggler's blues and Brother's keeper, to be even better (and I gave you these 2 episodes, because they are from Season 1 aswell).

I am not sure, wheter I like The Golden Triangle more, or this one, since that episode was such a nice one. However....... when I think a bit about this, I think the Calderone-saga is better, since it gave us so many memorable scenes. 

Also, when you speak about the "Calderone-saga", do you take the next 2 episodes from the latter 2 seasons aswell ? Or only Brother's keeper, Hit list, and Calderone's Demise ? If so, why ?

 

[RedDragon86]

2 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

Well............ I like them too, but in my view there are even better episodes. Though, tbh, I like the next part of the Calderone-saga story more. To that one I give a 9.5/10, to this one, a 9/10. As many people stated correctly here, they kinda missed "that-something" to be a clean 10/10. I think it's the fact that it doesn't end the Calderone-saga, rather, it leaves it open for 2 more episodes in the future "Sons and Lovers" and "The afternoon plane". While I like Sons and lovers, I think they should have gave a stronger ending. Maybe they should've made the 2nd part longer so it can fit that hole content ? Anyways..... I find Smuggler's blues and Brother's keeper, to be even better (and I gave you these 2 episodes, because they are from Season 1 aswell).

I am not sure, wheter I like The Golden Triangle more, or this one, since that episode was such a nice one. However....... when I think a bit about this, I think the Calderone-saga is better, since it gave us so many memorable scenes. 

Also, when you speak about the "Calderone-saga", do you take the next 2 episodes from the latter 2 seasons aswell ? Or only Brother's keeper, Hit list, and Calderone's Demise ? If so, why ?

 

 

10 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

This 2-part episode/story (Hit List & Calderone’s Demise...later retitled Calderone’s Return Pts. 1&2 for syndication) are actually my favorite episode/s of the series!! However, Season 2 is my favorite season overall.

But, in my opinion these 2 episodes have a little bit of it “all”! The music, action/assassinations/car chases, awesome  cars themselves (and I don’t care about the faux-Ferrari...it’s supposed to be a real Daytona in the show—gotta go with it ), drug lords, colors, fashion, cool & recurring plot with the Calderone-saga, plus you get a “taste” of both starting themes! “Hit” still has the original starting theme, while “Demise” first introduces the famous & well-known theme. 

Love both these episodes and they’ll always be 10/10 for me!!  

I actually prefer the Daytona even though it is fake, looks more cool and better with the top down and the key thing, inconspicuous. The thing what I don't understand is why didn't the production team buy a real one, I think between 1978-1983 the price range was $35-50k.

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, Adrian321 said:

Well............ I like them too, but in my view there are even better episodes. Though, tbh, I like the next part of the Calderone-saga story more. To that one I give a 9.5/10, to this one, a 9/10. As many people stated correctly here, they kinda missed "that-something" to be a clean 10/10. I think it's the fact that it doesn't end the Calderone-saga, rather, it leaves it open for 2 more episodes in the future "Sons and Lovers" and "The afternoon plane". While I like Sons and lovers, I think they should have gave a stronger ending. Maybe they should've made the 2nd part longer so it can fit that hole content ? Anyways..... I find Smuggler's blues and Brother's keeper, to be even better (and I gave you these 2 episodes, because they are from Season 1 aswell).

I am not sure, wheter I like The Golden Triangle more, or this one, since that episode was such a nice one. However....... when I think a bit about this, I think the Calderone-saga is better, since it gave us so many memorable scenes. 

Also, when you speak about the "Calderone-saga", do you take the next 2 episodes from the latter 2 seasons aswell ? Or only Brother's keeper, Hit list, and Calderone's Demise ? If so, why ?

 

Almost all, if not all, the episodes you mentioned above are all superb ones!  However, I also view these two as superb ones as well, and definitely worth the 10/10...the best part of the Calderone-saga!! 

As for the Calderone saga...all the episodes dealing with that are part of it, not just these two. So, yes I include Sons & Lovers , as well as Afternoon Plane. However, “Plane” is a total let-down as far as the whole Calderone story went. They needed one more episode to really end it or have closure for it.