bushido Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Rewatched DELIVER US FROM EVIL last nite...at the climax Sonny dangles the crucifix/cross that Hackman wore in jail - and gave to Sonny when he left- in his face and hands it back to him.Hackman cringes, the only time he ever lets down his cocky facade, an appears genuinely frightened.Now, I know he was compared to a vampire earlier by a vice squader, but he isn't really a vampire, right?So, why did Hackman react the way he did? Was it because it reminded him of being on Death Row with only hours to live?your take.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 pretty easy.at the end of "Forgive us our debts" when Hackman was released form death row upon Crockett´s intervention, he handed this cross over to Crockett at the gate saying "I won´t need this anymore".Giving the cross back to him (after keeping it for two years), is IMHO a pretty strong message like "You´ll need it now". That´s why his smile disappeared instantly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted May 30, 2010 Administrators Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 I agree with Tom. Hackman didn't need it as he was free but when Sonny gave it back to him he realized he was in deep trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysmallz Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 co sign with tom and timm.. great episode btw. i do love a disgruntaled crockett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushido Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 hmmmmmdidn't Hackman close his eyes and go back to tanning, unconcerned that Crockett would kill him in cold blood?anyway, season four seemed like a lost cause and then suddenly at the very end, it felt like VICE again.some classic eps (and the teaser for BULLET FOR CROCKETT) salvaged the season.Unforunately, after the first 3 eps of s.5 the show became a generic cop show with no value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushido Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I still lean towards the "vampire' allusion - he practically recoiledMostly, though i believe the reminder of being on Death Row, about to be executed, was the motivation for his reaction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 hmmmmmdidn't Hackman close his eyes and go back to tanning' date=' unconcerned that Crockett would kill him in cold blood?[/quote']My interpretation was that just as the other guys have said, Crockett was giving Hackman a sinister message about how he now did need the crucifix. Hackman looked worried, but then it appeared that he pondered over the question, thought about Crockett's righteous reputation, and then concluded "naa, he wouldn't do something like that, he's bluffing... i'm safe". This then prompted his line to Crockett where pretty much said the same thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted June 23, 2010 Administrators Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 WRONG! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seikolakyykyttaa Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 What a classic moment. Hackman has a nice oh **** face when he hands him the cross. You know another funny thing about the Hackman episodes is that when I first watched Forgive Us Our Debts, I didn't like it at all, because of the ending. But after seeing Deliver Us From Evil, it's become one of my favorite episodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Ferrariman Posted July 26, 2010 Administrators Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 I still lean towards the "vampire' allusion - he practically recoiled If Hackman was a vampire I seriously doubt he'd be working on his tan! and he definitely wouldn't be wearing a crucifx! (he originally yanked it from his own neck and gave it to Crockett.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted July 26, 2010 Administrators Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 If Hackman was a vampire I seriously doubt he'd be working on his tan! and he definitely wouldn't be wearing a crucifx! (he originally yanked it from his own neck and gave it to Crockett.)Not to mention the small matter of Crockett's bullet making goo out of his head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsEvanFreed Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 In hindsight, I believe Sonny giving back the cross bought everything full circle. Hackman did look shaken, then quickly recovered his bravado assuming that a righteous man like Crockett would never resort to vigilante justice.WR0NG....BANG! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilders Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 WRONG!Gives me CHILLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger390X Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Good points and mostly correct. Hackman had the cross because he put on the phasade of becoming a Christian and finding god before he died. It was just a rouse to get empathy from the public to make them believe he repented doing his dirty deads in life. Once Crockett got him out he didn't need the cross anymore as it was just a trinket to get him empathy. When Crockett tracked him down in the Islands, and he gave him the cross back it was a definite wake up call for Hackman that he start praying (if he believed is a god) as his time was over. It just shows what kind of poser Hackman was in real life. The cross was merely symbolic of leaning on Christian beliefs for his own evil purposes, and when he didn't need it anymore, he tossed the cross away as it served it's purpose. (got him out of jail) It just shows how meaningless that object was but Sonny make it a symbol at the end that it showed Hackman that he better do something in the next few seconds as his time was up. Sonny wanted revenge for Hackman killing Sonny's wife. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) I think in Hackman's twisted logic the cross is an indicator that Sonny's actually serious about killing him. Why would this man have bothered to keep such a thing? Just for an occasion like this? The idea that Sonny had held onto it and obsessed upon it is truly frightening to a psycho like Hackman. It puts Sonny too much in Hackman's own territory persona wise. Edited September 16, 2018 by Bren10 Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 On 5/30/2010 at 8:51 PM, bushido said: hmmmmmdidn't Hackman close his eyes and go back to tanning, unconcerned that Crockett would kill him in cold blood? (snipped) Responding to a very old comment here... I think Hackman closed his eyes so that Sonny wouldn't see that he was freaked out by the fact Sonny had kept the cross (as stated by Papa Legba, Stinger390X, Bren10 and others), and he was now bluffing that Sonny, the righteous police officer, wouldn't take justice into his own hands. I think he was concerned, but he didn't know what Sonny would do, so he was ready to take the chance (since obviously there was no other choice). Hackman was trying to play a mind game with Crockett and remind him that he (Sonny) was too ethical to shoot a man in cold blood. Another thing about that scene (separate from the question of the cross)--we were meant to see that Sonny placed the murder weapon with Hackman after he killed him, but I always had the feeling that Hackman may have actually had a gun, in readiness for such an event. I think it was left ambiguous whether Hackman was armed or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 yeah ambiguous. but i think a real Sonny Crockett with all his background wouldn't have shot an unarmed man. unless maybe it was part of the start of the burnout we see later. but i love to think Sonny Crockett wouldn't have done such a stupid error. plus, he stopped twice that kind of behavior in the past. once with Tubbs, and Calderon, and once with Bruce Willis. actually he doesn't stop the woman from killing the guy, but we clearly see in his eyes he disapproves personnally i find Hackman character totally fictional. no man can cheat like he does in front of death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 I agree with most of what you are saying, jpm1. You suggested maybe the act of shooting the unarmed man, Hackman, may have been part of the start of the burnout we see later. That is exactly the way I see it. The act killing Hackman goes against the basic character of Crockett, just as it's been portrayed in all of the scenes you mentioned. My gut feeling is that Crockett is barely hanging onto reality and his code of honor at this point, because he is so consumed by guilt over Caitlin's death. He knows he is on a vigilante mission and he doesn't think that's acceptable. He's doing it anyway--violating his deepest convictions--and I feel that was a step on the path that led to his Burnett career. I also agree that no one could really remain so cool in the face of imminent death as Hackman did. I think he decided the only way he could possibly come out of this was to play a mind game with Crockett; to try to bring Crockett back to his ethical base and take the chance that Crockett's bedrock ethical foundation wouldn't permit him to kill an unarmed man. Would anyone be able to do this in real life? I don't think so. Possibly (if he really did have a gun) he may have planned to surprise Crockett by shooting him while Crockett was struggling with his internal debate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 This also ties into the speech Sonny gives Rico on the St Vitus in the pilot with the flare gun about not letting things get personal. Sonny is doing the very thing he preached against. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 for me he didn't shot an unarmed man. in my mind Sonny is, and will always be the good guy. but there's actually no way to know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 On 9/16/2018 at 6:38 PM, jpm1 said: for me he didn't shot an unarmed man. in my mind Sonny is, and will always be the good guy. but there's actually no way to know Hackman wasn’t unarmed...it is hard to see, but it you notice, after Crockett shoots him, off to the side there is a gun slightly still in Hackman’s hand that he’d tried to pull on Sonny. Whether he still would have shot Hackman if there hadn’t been a gun...I don’t know? But Hackman provided Sonny with the reason or justification to do it. Crockett wasn’t perfect, no one is. But he wanted and tried to be a “good guy” as much as he could. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Ferrariman Posted October 10, 2018 Administrators Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 On 5/30/2010 at 9:37 PM, bushido said: I still lean towards the "vampire' allusion - he practically recoiledMostly, though i believe the reminder of being on Death Row, about to be executed, was the motivation for his reaction Switek's comment about finally driving a stake through his heart was just his way of saying we can finally rid ourselves of this evil person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted October 10, 2018 Administrators Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 Isn't this the Darth Vader tragedy? Lots of parallels here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 yeah this is the story of humanity. when you can't handle the injustice anymore, and you decide to go 'on the dark side'. i hope Crockett didn't shoot at an unarmed man. i sincerely hope for a man that has been the witness of Hank Weldon story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 3:24 AM, jpm1 said: yeah this is the story of humanity. when you can't handle the injustice anymore, and you decide to go 'on the dark side'. i hope Crockett didn't shoot at an unarmed man. i sincerely hope for a man that has been the witness of Hank Weldon story Sometimes people do go on the “dark side” when they get tired of injustice or inhumanity...and I think Crockett did a little of that. But not necessarily with killing Hackman. Like I said before...Hackman was NOT unarmed! He had a gun, and ultimately gave Sonny justification for shooting him. Perhaps Crockett had gone there to kill him...or perhaps he’d gone there to force him to turn himself in? Whatever the case, Hackman was armed and Sonny had no choice but to shoot. It still didn’t bring Caitlin back, and Crockett was still depressed and burnt out...but he had not shot or killed anyone in cold blood at that point. Later after the head injury and amnesia is when Sonny truly subconsciously delved into his “dark side”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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