jpaul1 Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 is it Charlie Glide.i mean i have him in my FB friends 10 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: More like one guy is trying to pretend they see a cloud, when there’s actually no cloud at all. Do we know who did this video...fans? yeah, or one of the two is living in a cloud. i mean everyone has seen the cutscene except you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Sorry, l'm not sure. Charlie Glide is a common name in relation to Vice. Someone else on the forum may know, or you could try to message him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 I don't know if it's real or not but George Mendeluk posted in the comments section on YouTube. He says Hackman was originally unarmed and that he liked that better because he deserved it NBC made them change it. It's also his favorite ending he directed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) On 11/14/2018 at 3:18 PM, jpm1 said: is it Charlie Glide.i mean i have him in my FB friends yeah, or one of the two is living in a cloud. i mean everyone has seen the cutscene except you The so-called “cut” scene is not meant to be a break of what happened, so-to-speak, and it is definitely not long enough (as it’s literally like 1 to 1 1/2 seconds at most) to supposedly elude to anything else happening in between Crockett turning and walking away. If Crockett had planted anything, the script and the director would have had him doing that in the episode ...they did not. All this what-if fabrication, and fiction on Sonny killing him to plant the gun is what’s living in the proverbial “cloud”...it’s just not there. You can play what-if games all you want—but that’s all they are…just what-if. They’re not what actually is or was. Edited March 12, 2023 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Bren10 said: I don't know if it's real or not but George Mendeluk posted in the comments section on YouTube. He says Hackman was originally unarmed and that he liked that better because he deserved it NBC made them change it. It's also his favorite ending he directed. There has been talk of maybe the script originally having Crockett shoot him unarmed, but NBC changed it. So that has been brought up before, but I’ve never had anybody actually confirm it. Whatever the case, ultimately in the episode Crockett did not shoot Hackman unarmed. Hackman had the gun, so it ended up being self-defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Hey what about the holdout piece we see Sonny pack before the Castillo conversation? It's hard to tell but it may match the gun Hackman is left holding. If it does then we have an issue here. Why bother showing him pack it? He's not going to need two guns to kill one man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Bren10 said: Hey what about the holdout piece we see Sonny pack before the Castillo conversation? It's hard to tell but it may match the gun Hackman is left holding. If it does then we have an issue here. Why bother showing him pack it? He's not going to need two guns to kill one man. If I was Crockett I would pack more than 1 gun, in case! I think he and the rest of the cops usually packed more than 1. Plus, Sonny didn’t know what he’d run into once he found Hackman...there could have been an “army” surrounding him. The gun Hackman had was his own. Again, If Crockett had planted it, they would have shown us that. They didn’t. He shot, lowered his gun, and walked away, as they show us Hackman had a gun he’d tried to pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: If I was Crockett I would pack more than 1 gun, in case! I think he and the rest of the cops usually packed more than 1. Plus, Sonny didn’t know what he’d run into once he found Hackman...there could have been an “army” surrounding him. The gun Hackman had was his own. Again, If Crockett had planted it, they would have shown us that. They didn’t. He shot, lowered his gun, and walked away, as they show us Hackman had a gun he’d tried to pull. well i don't care whose right, whose wrong here. but what bothers me a bit it's that you affirm things with arguments that are quite weak (no offense). you said first it was impossible that Crockett had made what i supposed he did. i prooved you there was a scene cut. if you analyse that scene in all honesty it's absolutely impossible to say Crockett didn't put the gun in Hackman's hand. now you say they would have shown us that. my question is how can you affirm again this. i mean are you into the director(s) head. for me it's pretty obvious that if they wanted to make things happen that way, and again i say i have absolutely no idea of what really happened, if they wanted things to happen that way, for me it's pretty obvious that they would have occulted it. i mean personnally if they had done it, it would have completely ruined the series. i mean the great stains free detective, that endured so many things in his life, kills a man in cold blood. no, it would have been very shocking. now again i don't know what happened, and i don't really care. i mean it's interesting to discuss, but i won't argue endlessly. find a script of the episode where what you affirm is said, then i would be happy to agree with you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, jpm1 said: well i don't care whose right, whose wrong here. but what bothers me a bit it's that you affirm things with arguments that are quite weak (no offense). you said first it was impossible that Crockett had made what i supposed he did. i prooved you there was a scene cut. if you analyse that scene in all honesty it's absolutely impossible to say Crockett didn't put the gun in Hackman's hand. now you say they would have shown us that. my question is how can you affirm again this. i mean are you into the director(s) head. for me it's pretty obvious that if they wanted to make things happen that way, and again i say i have absolutely no idea of what really happened, if they wanted things to happen that way, for me it's pretty obvious that they would have occulted it. i mean personnally if they had done it, it would have completely ruined the series. i mean the great stains free detective, that endured so many things in his life, kills a man in cold blood. no, it would have been very shocking. now again i don't know what happened, and i don't really care. i mean it's interesting to discuss, but i won't argue endlessly. find a script of the episode where what you affirm is said, then i would be happy to agree with you My arguments are not weak…my arguments are going by what is shown, and in the episode, not what is not. You did not prove there’s a scene cut..all that 1second thing is, is a camera change. There are rumors that originally the script did have Crockett shooting Hackman unarmed, but NBC made them change it. However, that’s never been confirmed (as far as I know...but it very likely could be true), and there has never been anything about Crockett planting a gun with anyone. Again, all of the possibilities or what-ifs about Crockett planting a gun, or shooting him unarmed are just that...what-ifs. They’re not what actually happened in the episode. All these other theories are more like just creating “alternate endings” that could have happened...but didn’t. It’s sometimes fun or cool to have in-depth discussions or even debates over certain topics or situations from the episodes. We can even create what-if possibilities for fun, that could have happened or might be the reasons for things...but if those ideas or possibilities are not in the episode, and that’s not what was actually shown or what actually happened, we can’t accept that as truth, even if we don’t like what actually happened. Edited November 15, 2018 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bren10 said: I don't know if it's real or not but George Mendeluk posted in the comments section on YouTube. He says Hackman was originally unarmed and that he liked that better because he deserved it NBC made them change it. It's also his favorite ending he directed. So, this George Mendeluk directed the episode? Edited November 15, 2018 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Apparently yes: http://miamivice.wikia.com/wiki/George_Mendeluk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 I get that you would want to be well armed with a holdout piece, but we always know Sonny has that anyway. Why bother showing us that here if he's not going to use it somehow and have it pay off? The director, so to speak, is reinforcing the fact that Sonny has two guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bren10 said: Apparently yes: http://miamivice.wikia.com/wiki/George_Mendeluk Cool! If what he said on YouTube is true, that NBC made them change the script, it makes me wonder how many other scripts/episodes originally had different endings or things happen? Interesting info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bren10 said: I get that you would want to be well armed with a holdout piece, but we always know Sonny has that anyway. Why bother showing us that here if he's not going to use it somehow and have it pay off? The director, so to speak, is reinforcing the fact that Sonny has two guns. I agree, the director is definitely letting us know that Sunny had two guns. But I think that was to let us know that he was going well-armed, knowing what he could run into once he got there. Why bother to plant a gun on Hackman anyway? What would be the point if he was going there to kill him in cold blood anyway? Edited November 15, 2018 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 That's a good question. Well I think we do know about the alternate Freefall endings at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Just now, Bren10 said: That's a good question. Well I think we do know about the alternate Freefall endings at least. Actually, I’ve heard there were possible alternate endings to Freefall, but I don’t know exactly what they were? Do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Because NBC wanted a way out for the audience. If we see Sonny kill him outright, no questions asked, then that vilifies him. Leaving Hackman with a gun in his hand allows us to speculate like we're doing now and give Sonny a pass. We don't see Sonny make the plant but we also don't see Hackman go for his own gun either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Somebody posted it elsewhere but I think there were 3 total. 1) The ending we know-they quit the force 2) Sonny and Rico are killed. That agent actually makes good on his threat. 3) Only Tubbs is killed Actually check the notes here http://miamivice.wikia.com/wiki/Freefall I find it hilarious that Sonny and Rico were actually spared so that they could make appearances on a possible Leap of Faith spinoff. So we have one of the most reviled episodes to thank for them surviving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Bren10 said: Because NBC wanted a way out for the audience. If we see Sonny kill him outright, no questions asked, then that vilifies him. Leaving Hackman with a gun in his hand allows us to speculate like we're doing now and give Sonny a pass. We don't see Sonny make the plant but we also don't see Hackman go for his own gun either. The “speculation” I think was originally to make you wonder whether Crockett shot him unarmed or not. Ultimately once we see the gun in Hackman’s hand, there is no more speculation. NBC, if they did actually change the script, wanted a way out for Crockett (aka the audience)...to justify what he did. There isn’t any implication, or indication of any kind of plant. A plant makes no sense...why? They weren’t in the U.S.—there’d be little investigation, and no one was around. And if Hackman had had body guards around, there would’ve been a gun battle with Crockett, and they would’ve been witnesses anyway. So again, there will be no need to plant a gun. It just makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bren10 said: Somebody posted it elsewhere but I think there were 3 total. 1) The ending we know-they quit the force 2) Sonny and Rico are killed. That agent actually makes good on his threat. 3) Only Tubbs is killed Actually check the notes here http://miamivice.wikia.com/wiki/Freefall I find it hilarious that Sonny and Rico were actually spared so that they could make appearances on a possible Leap of Faith spinoff. So we have one of the most reviled episodes to thank for them surviving! Cool...thanks for the info! So glad they did not go forward with the Leap of Faith spinoff! That would’ve been a disaster! But I’m also glad they did not decide to kill off Crockett or Tubbs at the end of the show. That too would’ve been a disaster! I hate it when they kill off main characters! Edited November 15, 2018 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 A plant makes no sense unless it's just for us, the audience. It wouldn't be the first time a show has done something expressly for its audience and not for any other reason in-universe. But hey, this has been fun to debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bren10 said: A plant makes no sense unless it's just for us, the audience. It wouldn't be the first time a show has done something expressly for its audience and not for any other reason in-universe. But hey, this has been fun to debate. True... especially shows in the past, there were times that they would do things that really made no sense, and it was only for our (the viewer’s) benefit. But, if planting a gun on Hackman was one of those, for this episode, they would’ve definitely eluded to, or implied, or flat out shown that. But, they didn’t. This has been fun and interesting to debate and talk about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 If anyone can reach out to PMT from here, maybe they could ask him if he remembers filming those alternate Freefall endings. It would have been incredibly painful watching Tubbs die in Sonny's arms Evan-style or something, which I suspect they might've done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bren10 said: If anyone can reach out to PMT from here, maybe they could ask him if he remembers filming those alternate Freefall endings. It would have been incredibly painful watching Tubbs die in Sonny's arms Evan-style or something, which I suspect they might've done. That would be really awesome and interesting to be able to hear what the actual stars had to say about possible alternate endings, if they knew about them! It would’ve been terrible, in my opinion, if they had killed off either Crockett or Tubbs! It would’ve ruined the whole entire show…as what would’ve been the point then? But I hate it when they kill off any main star...I really hate the episode where Zito is killed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul1 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 i don't think it would have been that dramatic. i mean MV was a good series because it was realistic. sadly sometimes cops die IRL. i think we would have accustomished to it. plus in such endings the death is never strict. with a bit of imagination it's not that hard to make a character come back to life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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