Crockett, Hackman and the Cross

[RedDragon86]

It was a great ending but didn't anybody else dislike the song at the end? why didn't they use Peter Gabriels "We Do What We're Told" from the previous episode with Hackman.

I made a video on my channel and changed it to that song, its much more fitting and emotional. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-QwwCqMydE

Edited November 15, 2018 by RedDragon86

[jpaul1]

good pick, i like it. love the default version as well. yours implies a more dark future. the default music is more soft. it nearly excuses Crockett's act

[RedDragon86]

9 minutes ago, jpm1 said:

good pick, i like it. love the default version as well. yours implies a more dark future. the default music is more soft. it nearly excuses Crockett's act

Do you think the Peter Gabriel's "We Do What We're Told"  which was used in "Forgive Us Our Debts" gives off an emotional feel? and it connects with the previous episode, you feel Sonny's pain while he is walking away. 

[Bren10]

The Easton song is the same one she was singing when she was killed so it is meant to be poetic not entertaining.  She is the reason Sonny is doing what he's doing at the end.  At the same time it is a goodbye to that part of Sonny's life as he walks away.  And by extension it will be our goodbye to Sonny as we know him for awhile too.  Notice we don't follow him as he walks off.   He turns his back on us (and his original ideals through the Hackman killing). We Do What We're Told would shift the focus entirely onto Hackman and that's not the exact point here.  Do What We're Told is a little too brooding in this case and not as cathartic imo.

[jpaul1]

actually in all honesty even if i strongly, and firmly condemn any man execution (including death row. i stop the politics here), when i see Sonny scene. i nearly have the feeling he didn't do anything wrong. i mean he has a dead man in front of him. if that guy is living it's only because of Sonny. he got free again, and what he did, he ruined his savior life. so sonny has nearly a right of taking back what he gave. but actually Hackman is a totally unrealistic character. as i said no one can cheat in front of death like he did, and even if so, once free i mean he should see Crockett like the messiah, and forgive him whatever his initial griefs toward him

Edited November 15, 2018 by jpm1

[jpaul1]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

Do you think the Peter Gabriel's "We Do What We're Told"  which was used in "Forgive Us Our Debts" gives off an emotional feel? and it connects with the previous episode, you feel Sonny's pain while he is walking away. 

sorry i skipped you -_-. personnally in your version i see dark clouds above Sonny head. with a dark future. which fits well to the scene for me. i don't have the episode you are refering to in mind. but i like your version. Sonny has gone bad. he made the wrong choice, and even if somewhere he can be understood, there's only a dark future ahead. the kind of Hank Weldon..

[ViceFanMan]

28 minutes ago, jpm1 said:

actually in all honesty even if i strongly, and firmly condemn any man execution (including death row. i stop the politics here), when i see Sonny scene. i nearly have the feeling he didn't do anything wrong. i mean he has a dead man in front of him. if that guy is living it's only because of Sonny. he got free again, and what he did, he ruined his savior life. so sonny has nearly a right of taking back what he gave. but actually Hackman is a totally unrealistic character. as i said no one can cheat in front of death like he did, and even if so, once free i mean he should see Crockett like the messiah, and forgive him whatever his initial griefs toward him

 Hackman is actually what we call a sociopath (don’t remember that word being used as much back then...but it might have been). He’s not going to forgive or have any feelings towards Crockett or anyone else at all. They have no feelings, they have no remorse.  Hackman getting out of prison as quickly as he did was probably unrealistic.  But there are sociopaths who truly “look death in the face”, so-to-speak, and don’t care, have fear, remorse, or anything. There’s no conscience.

[RedDragon86]

On 11/15/2018 at 4:34 PM, Bren10 said:

The Easton song is the same one she was singing when she was killed so it is meant to be poetic not entertaining.  She is the reason Sonny is doing what he's doing at the end.  At the same time it is a goodbye to that part of Sonny's life as he walks away.  And by extension it will be our goodbye to Sonny as we know him for awhile too.  Notice we don't follow him as he walks off.   He turns his back on us (and his original ideals through the Hackman killing). We Do What We're Told would shift the focus entirely onto Hackman and that's not the exact point here.  Do What We're Told is a little too brooding in this case and not as cathartic imo.

The song symbolizes the fact that he let him go free, it connects, kind of highlights that it his fault that she is dead for his unfortunate actions in Forgive Us Our Debts, wasn't just about his wife, Hackman went free and killed a family and no doubt more people, I think the whole thing is on a wider scale, but I guess the show at this point wasn't razor sharp and had to go down the corny route. I understand that Eastons song is relevant but it was so corny, it feels like it belongs in a melodramatic TV show in the 80s. 

Its was the same with that corny song at the end of "When Irish Eyes Are Crying" - wouldn't have happened under Mann's direction, simply not the tone of Vice.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by RedDragon86

[Miami Beau]

On 11/14/2018 at 1:18 AM, timm525 said:

For the sake of arguement and some logic here, is it really conceivable to believe Crockett went there to apprehend him?

A few points for consideration:

• Wasn't Hackman on some island outside US jurisdiction, certainly outside Florida for a Sheriff's deputy from Dade County?
• Wouldn't there be lots of paperwork for him to go there legally for the intention of arresting him?
• Wouldn't the locals need to be involved (for an arrest on their soil by an outside law enforcement agent) even if on Hackman's payroll?
• Would Castillo condone him going alone, outside their jurisdiction, to apprehend a known cop killer, to apprehend alone the guy that killed his pregnant wife and unborn child? With no back up?
• Crockett's bringing the cross and giving it back to Hackman was proof of premeditated murder. IMHO
• Even if he had planted the gun to say it was self defense, how would he legally be able to explain the above.

Nope, he went there with the intention of killing him in cold blood and that's exactly what he did. He was over the edge and taking justice in his own hands. This played very nicely in to the Brunette trilogy and to his emotional state.

Not that I blame him for killing Hackman, if he did that to my wife and child (or in my case, my cat) I'd hunt the somebitch down like the terminator killing him anywhere I found him and by any means , but that's just me. 

Totally agree. This is the true “Cold Blood” edit I recently posted on my YouTube channel. The Hackman gun is removed so is the Sheena Easton song.