70's to 90's themed gun thread

[Miami_JBT]

For those that don't know, I'm a gun guy. As in I literally am in the industry. I've been a cop for fifteen years but other than that, I've worked for a number of different gun shops and even had my own at one time. I'm now a gun rights lobbyist, but that's a whole other story and I'm not making this political. 

I have a collection that spans from Black Powder Muzzle Loaders to what was cutting edge ten years ago (the 2010s is about where my wallet said no more ). But some of my favorites, are guns from the late 70s to the mid 90s. 

So I'll post random things in this thread. Retro gun ads, reviews, articles, silly facts, etc. 

So here's one....

FBI-Issued Smith & Wesson Model 1076 in 10mm Auto

On April 11, 1986, eight FBI agents engaged in a rolling gunfight with two armed bank robbers. The bad guys shot and killed FBI Special Agents Jerry L. Dove and Benjamin P. Grogan. In the incident’s aftermath, the FBI concluded that a failure of equipment caused the debacle . . .

Special Agent John Hall, chief of the Firearms Training Unit at the FBI Academy, presented then FBI Director William Sessions the results of a series of ammo tests. Agent Hall’s report concluded that the FBI needed a more effective caliber: 10mm. Director Sessions told Agent Hall, “If you find the right gun, we’ll find the money.”

Smith & Wesson stepped up to the plate with their brand new tough-as-nails 100 percent stainless steel Third Generation Series semi-automatic. In coordination with Agent Hall, the S&W Model 1076 was born. The FBI signed a contract for 9000 pistols over a three year period.



We’re talking about a nine-plus-one capacity, single stack, double/single action semi-automatic pistol chambered in 10mm Auto with a frame mounted decocker and no magazine disconnect. The 4.25″ barrel was stainless steel. It was topped off with a single piece wrap around Xenoy polymer stocks and Novak Combat three dot sights.

This 10mm Model 1076 was intended to be the be-all-end-all of police pistols. A dead nuts reliable handgun that was impervious to the weather, heavy enough that you could kill a man with it, unloaded.

The pistol’s take down was similar to the 1911 that somewhat inspired it. Pull the slide back until the take down notch aligns with the slide stop catch, push the pin out, move the slide forward until it is off the rails, remove the guide rod and recoil spring, and drop out the barrel.



Recoil? We don’t need no stinking recoil. The Model 1076’s weight soaks up the energy that the 10mm Auto dispenses. The trigger is like every other Third Gen Smith: a smooth 12 lbs. trigger pull in double action with a deliciously short, sweet, and crisp single action pull of less than 3 lbs.

When the decocker is engaged, it resets the hammer to the half cock position. So the trigger pull isn’t as long as a traditional Third Gen Smith like a S&W 4566 TSW.



Part of the FBI Contract stipulated that the 1076 lacked a magazine disconnect so it could be fired without a magazine inserted — another shift away from the standard Third Gen layout.

The contract also called for a 15 round magazine.Yes, you read that right: a fifteen round, single stack 10mm Auto magazine for a full size stainless steel pistol. Think about that for a second . . .



You’re a FBI Special Agent working a dope case in the dark gritty streets of Liberty City in Miami. It is 2am and you’re sitting in your unmarked car doing surveillance. You have your 1076 in your hip, two nine round mags on your belt, and a fifteen round mag in the map well on your driver’s side door.

Sounds exciting right? Where exactly do you stick that thing when you get out of your car? Back pocket? Ahhhh the mindset of the late 80s and early 90s. What a time it was. Anyways, back to the main topic on hand . . .

The S&W Model 1076 had a very short life span at the FBI: less than five years. The birth of the .40 S&W in January 17, 1990 sounded the death knell for the 1076. The FBI load for the 10mm: a Federal Federal Cartridge Company load of a 180 grain Sierra JHP bullet, delivering a muzzle velocity of 980 fps. The .40 S&W duplicated that “stopping power” on a 9mm framed pistol with greater capacity to boot.

Smith made precisely 13,805 Model 1076s. Only a handful of non-federal police agencies issued the gun (e.g., the Kentucky State Police). As the FBI doesn’t surplus their guns, actual FBI 1076s are a treasured item.

That said, legit FBI guns got into the wild via Smith & Wesson. The company purchased them from the FBI and sold them to distributors like Lew Horton Distributing Co.



Used model 1076s aren’t cheap. The fifteen round magazines sell for over $100 a piece. Collectors will pay well over a grand for a Roy Jinks (S&W Company Historian) lettered 1076 with FBI provenance. Parts are hard to find, as are the original FBI Safariland Holsters. Worth it? For someone who knows the history and appreciates quality, yes. Of course.

[All photos of the Model 1076 belong to AR15.com member Mjohn3006 and are used with his permission.]

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Miami_JBT
Fixing formatting

[miamijimf]

Interesting thanks.

[Miami_JBT]

Buckle your seatbelts, we're taking the time machine to 1995 to look at the Wonder-Nine transition.

Gather around children. Today we're going back to the far off year of 1995. Yup, we're going to talk about the transition to the Wonder-Nine for the civilian market. Let's get the time machine going. Okay, everyone is strapped and ready to go? Because where we're going. Accessory Rails and RMR Optics didn't exist yet.

HOLD ON! HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

 

Woah dudes! We're back in 1995 and I swear, color existed. But Shotgun News wasn't and neither was some of the other gun publications. So you just have to imagine what color looked like. Anyways, today we're looking at some quality guns and the what led to the transition to the higher capacity Wonder-Nine. 

First up is the Smith & Wesson Model 15 Combat Masterpiece.
 

 

The classic "K" Frame .38 S&W Special duty revolver. One variant or another of this wheel gun rode in the police holster for close to most of the 20th Century. A six shot, adjustable sight, double/single action gun. The quality that S&W put into these guns was fantastic. They were smooth shooting and capable for the era. The .38 S&W Special cartridge was and still is nothing to sneeze at. The 125gr SJHP +P load was a capable self defense round and Metro Dade PD put it to good use. How do I know? That's what my Father used back when he was a uniform patrolman for Metro Dade PD.

 

 

With HKS Speed Loaders, the gun was capable for most police shootings.
 

 

But there was another classic riding in cop holsters back then too. 

 

 

That's right, the ever classic slabside .45; the 1911 semiauto pistol. Yes, the 1911 did ride in police holsters back in the day and it was hugely popular in shooting public due to its history in the military.

 

 

The 1911 served a three quarters of a century as the duty pistol of the US Armed Forces it was a handgun well respected in police work due to its proven track record as a "man-stopper" with the 230gr FMJ. Originally shipped from Colt with a 7rd magazine and later updated to 8rd mags. The single action only 1911 was good with round ball. But back then, it was standard to purchase a 1911 and then send it to a gunsmith to get it to feed anything other than FMJ ammunition. But cops that could carry a 1911 did. They wanted the added firepower and quicker reload capabilities that a gunfighter got in a semi-automatic. Colt fixed some of the issues and released the Series 80 1991A1. The gun had no problem feeding the hollow points of the era and as a Series 80 design, it had a firing pin block that made it drop safe. 

 

 

But by the 1980s, the two guns above were starting to show their age and cops wanted some more firepower to fight the heavily armed criminals. And guess who answered that call? Beretta with the Model 92FS is who. 

 

 

The Wonder-Nine that replaced the slabside for the military and the trusted wheel gun for police. 

 

 

 

Fifteen rounds of 9x19mm made NATO happy along with a good amount of cops on the streets. As a double action/single action design. The 92FS is honestly the classic Wonder-Nine. While there were plenty of other automatics that stepped up to the place, the sexy Italian 92FS is the gun just about everyone thinks about when it comes to what a Wonder-Nine. The trigger pull is smooth and crisp and the slide feels like it glides on greased mirror polished ball bearings. 

 

 

In 1995, you couldn't go wrong with a 92FS. Pre-Ban 15rd magazines were widely available and loading them with 124gr JHP from Federal Hydra Shok wasn't a bad choice either in ammunition. The 92FS was at the height of its popularity. In service with the US Armed Forces and agencies like the LAPD and FHP. The gun developed a hell of a reputation as a proven and capable gunfighter's gun. It was comfortable to carry, easy to maintain, and accurate. And as mentioned, the trigger and excellent for a DA/SA gun. Plus it helped that Hollywood made it a star in films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. 

Why the switch? Because criminals were up-arming and the military needed to standardize with NATO. Honestly, with the advancement of hollow point ammunition (considered privative by today's standards) back then. Police had a better gun. Higher capacity, less recoil, and a capable round that could put someone down. The military had similar changes too except for the putting someone down since they used 9mm FMJ ammo. But that's a whole other issue. The 1911s were ridden hard and put away wet. The last major purchase of 1911s for the military was in 1945. So the youngest 1911 in military service was forty years old when the 92FS replaced it. And as many know. The shooting public took notice and many went with the same choice.

You wouldn't be unarmed with a S&W Model 15 or a Colt 1911 in 1995, the Beretta 92FS was the best option at the time. You simply couldn't go wrong.
 

 

It was good choice then and now. 

 

 

So grab your Eagle Industries Fanny Pack, load up your 92FS, wear your Ray Bans, and listen to some 2 Live Crew as you cruise the strip looking for some gals to party with.

 

 

Why do that? Because we ran out of gas and the time machine needs 93 Octane and the gas station at the corner only has regular 87 and I can't use Apple Pay. Does anyone have $20?

 

[timm525]

Excellent write up sir! 

[Miami_JBT]

I channeled my inner John Woo today by comparing my Italian Stallion to my Brazilian Bombshell




I grew up loving the Beretta 92 series since it was the gun that replaced the old worn out 1911, it was the gun that went into Panama and later won the Gulf War.



It was the gun of the LAPD and numerous FL Law Enforcement Agencies.


My Father (far right) as a Special Agent carrying a Beretta 92SB.


The Beretta serving with the LAPD during the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Robbery.

Along with its real life exploits, the Beretta 92 shared screen time with actors like Bruce Willis in Die Hard and Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon. But it wasn't only just a star in Western films. Oh no, it also was very popular in Asian cinema.

So who is John Woo and what the heck do I mean by that the title? John Woo is a Hong Kong Movie Director known for using Beretta and Taurus automatics in his action films and having his characters wield them akimbo. Thus, going "John Woo" means dual wielding.


Chow Yun-fat in 1989's The Killer, directed by John Woo. Dual wielding a Beretta and Taurus.

Mr. Woo's style became very popular in the Hong Kong action scene that it was often copied.


Chow Yun-fat in 1989's God of Gamblers, directed by Wong Jing. Dual wielding a Beretta and Taurus.

He was a fan of both guns and so am I. I love Beretta, but I always wanted a Taurus too and here's why.

Both companies advertised the hell of their products. I remember seeing all these ads in the magazines back in the day.







Taurus talking up their guns in these 1980s era Taurus PT92 advertisement promoting one of the gun's key difference from the Beretta. Its overall lower price.







Original 1980s era advertisement. Beretta riding the wave from being adopted as the official service pistol of the US Military and then beating all the competitors when trials were redone.

Okay enough about waxing nostalgic about 1980s Hong Kong action movies and Reaganomics era gun ads, let's just get to the meat and potatoes. We're going to outright compare the Beretta and the Taurus. I wanted to always do a direct comparison between the two and now I can since I recently purchased a early 90s production Taurus PT92AF.


My Beretta made in January 2003 and Taurus made in August 1994. Both are in my opinion exceptional Wonder-Nines from their companies.

Beretta and Taurus have been producing some fantastic Wonder-Nines and these two are in my opinion the cream of the crop.

Design wise, they're very similar.


Schematic for both guns. Beretta on the left, Taurus on the right.

This particular Beretta is a "Police Special", what that means is that it was marketed to law enforcement agencies. Beretta took a bog standard 92FS and sold it in a carboard box to reduce shipping costs. They threw in a third magazine and installed Trijicon night sights on 'em.

The Taurus as mentioned previously, is a then standard PT92AF. Remember, in 1997, Taurus started to cut costs by cutting quality on their guns. But this one was before any of that. Everything on this gun is old school cool.


Beretta's Slide Mounted Safety vs Taurus' Frame Mounted Safety.

The most oblivious difference between the two guns is the safeties. Beretta moved theirs to the slide back in the day and Taurus has kept it in its original location on the frame. Both act as decockers, but only Taurus gives you the option of carrying cocked and locked ala the 1911. That is one of the biggest reasons why folks usually pick and choose which 92 they'll buy. Well, that and cost. Historically speaking, the Taurus was always a cheaper option.


Taurus on top, Beretta on the bottom.

Both guns have lanyard loops and the rear of the grip can be seen with vertical serrations to aid in grip. The front on both guns are the same in that regard too. Except for the Beretta, I use Hogue's finger grooved grips so that isn't something I notice. The lanyard loop is oriented differently between the two. But not enough to make a difference.


Taurus PT92AF disassembled.


Beretta 92FS disassembled.

Both are exactly the same in terms of takedown for general field cleaning. Not a single thing is different in that regard.


Beretta on the left, Taurus on the right.

The magazines are the same except for the magazine catch cut in the mag body. Both are fifteen rounds in capacity.

Beretta and Taurus independently moved the magazine button from the heel to the current location behind the trigger. So the measurements of the mag catches themselves are different. So while the magazines are the same specs, they are not interchangeable unless you modify the magazine catch hole in the mag body to work for both. Triple K actually made a magazine like that.

Triple K's Universal Beretta/Taurus 92 magazine. Notice the mag catch cutout.

Now, I know, someone is going to ask, "why can't I just swap the magazine catch from one gun to the other?" Well, the reason is because they are designed differently. Beretta cuts a big notch in the grip frame, and the entire assembly housing is all removed as a complete unit. Taurus installs the catch housing in a semi-permanent manner, and a two-piece catch is screwed together into the housing.


Notice the blued finish on the Taurus versus the Bruniton finish on the Beretta.

Both guns have the same pattern of extractor that functions as a loaded chamber indicator. When loaded, the front end of the extractor sticks out and there is a little dab of red paint that acts as a visual cue to let you know a round is in the chamber.



The slide serrations on both guns are crisp and sharp. Beretta has their more forward to clear the slide mounted safety lever.


Beretta on top. Taurus on the bottom.

Both have the extractor retaining pin in the same exact location. The Beretta has a visible firing pin block that physically raises when you pull the trigger.


Beretta on top, Taurus on the bottom.

But the Taurus also has a firing pin block. It just isn't visible from the exterior of the slide. Both function exactly the same way though.


Taurus on top, Beretta on the bottom.

Both have a fixed ejector on the left side. You can also see that both guns have a hammer that was machined from a forging.


Taurus on top, Beretta on the bottom.

The trigger transfer bar is the same on both guns. Same with the disassembly release latch button.


Beretta on the left, Taurus on the right.


Taurus on the left, Beretta on the right.

You can see how just to the opposite from the ejector on the other side of the hammer, both have little "arms". That is the firing pin block lever.


Taurus on top, Beretta on the bottom.

The barrels and locking blocks are exactly the same and completely interchangeable.


Taurus on top, Beretta on the bottom. Though in reality, both guide rods are Beretta. The OEM Taurus one is stainless steel.

The recoil springs and guide rods are interchangeable. I actually swapped the Taurus one for a Beretta one. Why? Because the factory Taurus one is stainless and looks better on my Beretta 96G Brigader Elite II.


Taurus on left, Beretta on the right.

The Beretta has a set of fixed Trijicon night sights. While not 100% a direct comparison with the Taurus sights, they are both similar in being a three-dot arrangement and the tritium is mostly burnt out anyways.

You can also see the cutout on the left side of Beretta's slide for the oversized hammer pin. What's that there for; you ask? It is to prevent the slide from hitting the shooter in the face. Back in the 1980s, the US Navy had their SEALs do a lot of training with the then new 92F. They punished these guns with nothing but over-pressured SMG ammo and eventually a few slides had catastrophic failure where the back end of the slides flew back and struck the shooters in the face. Beretta designed the oversized hammer pin to prevent that. Taurus never did such a thing.


Taurus


Beretta

Both have a similar sight arrangement and view. The front sight on both is machined as part of the slide.


Beretta on top, Taurus on the bottom.

Taurus kept the straight dust cover while Beretta went with the slanted dust cover. Why did Beretta change the profile? Beretta changed the profile of the dust cover to strengthen the frame for the purposes of eliminating the cracks after heavy use.

The trigger on the Taurus is more curved and you can see that while both have hooked "combat" trigger guards, only Beretta added texturing to improve the grip there. Taurus left it plain.


Notice how on the Taurus, the bottom front of the grip is straight while the Beretta is flared out.

So that's it right? The comparison is done and we can call this article finished.



Nope, of course not. Even with the height of the panic, we at least have to see how the Italian Stallion and the Brazilian Bombshell shoot. First up is the Taurus.


Taurus at 25 yards at Talon Range in Midway, FL. 15rds were fired.

Now is the Beretta to show off.


The Beretta at 25 yards at Talon Range in Midway, FL. 15rds total were fired.

You can see, that the Beretta was beaten by the Taurus. Yup, the Brazilian lady sure showed the chic Italian model how it is done. The Beretta had a lighter trigger pull, but that's because I installed a "D" mainspring in it over a decade ago. I can do the same to the Taurus. I just haven't done so yet but eventually will.

All in all, this Taurus meets the same level of quality that you'd expect in a Beretta. While Taurus later reduced the quality in their products. This PT92AF meets what I want from the 92 platform.

So who won? Well, I'd say it is a tie. Both are phenomenal shooters from a bygone era of duty size 9mm automatics that make a GLOCK 17 look small. Concealability was never a factor in either gun. When these guns were new, I'd have gotten the Taurus if I were a new shooter back in the 1990s. Why? It was the same quality as the Beretta at a cheaper price. But today, well before the panic buying. The price of a used Beretta was very low and was actually competitive with the prices you see for a used Taurus.

But no matter what, if you are a 92 fan. Go hunt down a early 90s Taurus PT92AF. You'll be surprised by how good the gun is.

[Kladdagh]

Great comparative review ... I own a 92FS myself and it is a keeper.

It is a shame that Taurus quality is now reduced.

Will we have THE gun revolution of this era? I am speaking of the legendary Glock 17 !

Thanks again pal 

[Miami_JBT]

There will be a GLOCK article.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Miami_JBT

[Robbie C.]

47 minutes ago, Miami_JBT said:

There will be a GLOCK article.

So long as it has a feature on Glock-leg...

[sdiegolo78]

On 4/29/2021 at 7:09 PM, Miami_JBT said:

Buckle your seatbelts, we're taking the time machine to 1995 to look at the Wonder-Nine transition.

Gather around children. Today we're going back to the far off year of 1995. Yup, we're going to talk about the transition to the Wonder-Nine for the civilian market. Let's get the time machine going. Okay, everyone is strapped and ready to go? Because where we're going. Accessory Rails and RMR Optics didn't exist yet.

HOLD ON! HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

 

Woah dudes! We're back in 1995 and I swear, color existed. But Shotgun News wasn't and neither was some of the other gun publications. So you just have to imagine what color looked like. Anyways, today we're looking at some quality guns and the what led to the transition to the higher capacity Wonder-Nine. 

First up is the Smith & Wesson Model 15 Combat Masterpiece.
 

 

The classic "K" Frame .38 S&W Special duty revolver. One variant or another of this wheel gun rode in the police holster for close to most of the 20th Century. A six shot, adjustable sight, double/single action gun. The quality that S&W put into these guns was fantastic. They were smooth shooting and capable for the era. The .38 S&W Special cartridge was and still is nothing to sneeze at. The 125gr SJHP +P load was a capable self defense round and Metro Dade PD put it to good use. How do I know? That's what my Father used back when he was a uniform patrolman for Metro Dade PD.

 

 

With HKS Speed Loaders, the gun was capable for most police shootings.
 

 

But there was another classic riding in cop holsters back then too. 

 

 

That's right, the ever classic slabside .45; the 1911 semiauto pistol. Yes, the 1911 did ride in police holsters back in the day and it was hugely popular in shooting public due to its history in the military.

 

 

The 1911 served a three quarters of a century as the duty pistol of the US Armed Forces it was a handgun well respected in police work due to its proven track record as a "man-stopper" with the 230gr FMJ. Originally shipped from Colt with a 7rd magazine and later updated to 8rd mags. The single action only 1911 was good with round ball. But back then, it was standard to purchase a 1911 and then send it to a gunsmith to get it to feed anything other than FMJ ammunition. But cops that could carry a 1911 did. They wanted the added firepower and quicker reload capabilities that a gunfighter got in a semi-automatic. Colt fixed some of the issues and released the Series 80 1991A1. The gun had no problem feeding the hollow points of the era and as a Series 80 design, it had a firing pin block that made it drop safe. 

 

 

But by the 1980s, the two guns above were starting to show their age and cops wanted some more firepower to fight the heavily armed criminals. And guess who answered that call? Beretta with the Model 92FS is who. 

 

 

The Wonder-Nine that replaced the slabside for the military and the trusted wheel gun for police. 

 

 

 

Fifteen rounds of 9x19mm made NATO happy along with a good amount of cops on the streets. As a double action/single action design. The 92FS is honestly the classic Wonder-Nine. While there were plenty of other automatics that stepped up to the place, the sexy Italian 92FS is the gun just about everyone thinks about when it comes to what a Wonder-Nine. The trigger pull is smooth and crisp and the slide feels like it glides on greased mirror polished ball bearings. 

 

 

In 1995, you couldn't go wrong with a 92FS. Pre-Ban 15rd magazines were widely available and loading them with 124gr JHP from Federal Hydra Shok wasn't a bad choice either in ammunition. The 92FS was at the height of its popularity. In service with the US Armed Forces and agencies like the LAPD and FHP. The gun developed a hell of a reputation as a proven and capable gunfighter's gun. It was comfortable to carry, easy to maintain, and accurate. And as mentioned, the trigger and excellent for a DA/SA gun. Plus it helped that Hollywood made it a star in films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. 

Why the switch? Because criminals were up-arming and the military needed to standardize with NATO. Honestly, with the advancement of hollow point ammunition (considered privative by today's standards) back then. Police had a better gun. Higher capacity, less recoil, and a capable round that could put someone down. The military had similar changes too except for the putting someone down since they used 9mm FMJ ammo. But that's a whole other issue. The 1911s were ridden hard and put away wet. The last major purchase of 1911s for the military was in 1945. So the youngest 1911 in military service was forty years old when the 92FS replaced it. And as many know. The shooting public took notice and many went with the same choice.

You wouldn't be unarmed with a S&W Model 15 or a Colt 1911 in 1995, the Beretta 92FS was the best option at the time. You simply couldn't go wrong.
 

 

It was good choice then and now. 

 

 

So grab your Eagle Industries Fanny Pack, load up your 92FS, wear your Ray Bans, and listen to some 2 Live Crew as you cruise the strip looking for some gals to party with.

 

 

Why do that? Because we ran out of gas and the time machine needs 93 Octane and the gas station at the corner only has regular 87 and I can't use Apple Pay. Does anyone have $20?

 

That's a cool article! Just found an interesting Forbes article about the Beretta company owners:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeslifestyle/2014/09/10/inside-the-beretta-empire-a-fashion-line-hunting-lodges-and-an-italian-villa/?sh=3cc8325f3014

[Gary1911A1]

Miami Vice was the first TVShow that had a Glock featured. Sonny takes a Glock 17 off a bad guy.

[Miami_JBT]

[Miami_JBT]

 

 

[Gary1911A1]

Miami_JBT, I just know we would be friends if we lived close. 

[MichaelAce]

I'm not progun for several reasons but I've always liked to see a good looking pistol in any movie or show, I've bought several airsoft replicas including a silver Colt 1911 (carried with a Galco Miami Classic Shoulder Holster), a matte black 92FS, a Glock 17 and I plan to get a Detonics .45 for my ankle, just like Crockett since I love the look of a compact 1911, able to be carried and concealed so easily

[Miami_JBT]

Very first English written article of the GLOCK 17. It was in Soldier of Fortune. 

 

 

 

 

Here is the only Austrian issued GLOCK P80 in the US. It is at the Smithsonian Museum.
 

 

 

 

 

 

As a bonus, here is the 1986 Gun Digest review of the GLOCK 17. This is the first review of the US release of the GLOCK.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the first article on the .40 S&W chambered GLOCKs too published in Shooting Times' November 1990 issue.
 

 

I met Herr Gaston Glock as a kid. He swung by the agency my Father worked at the time. Dad was one of the first to carry a GLOCK as a cop in FL. He got his picture taken with Gaston that day. I still remember as a snot nosed punk shooting a GLOCK for the first time on the police range. I was in shock because it weighed the same as the Nintendo Zapper. Prior to that GLOCK, all I was shooting was Beretta 92s and S&W Revolvers plus a 1911 here and there.

Here are some original period ads. 

[Jeff_Cooper]

Great stuff! Thank you for taking time and effort on these! I've a one question regarding Beretta being '1st wonder nine'? I think in Europe the CZ 75 makes a solid case on beating the Italians on quality and capacity. So I take it CZ was not known is States at the time? In any case it came from the wrong side of the iron curtain, so would've never be found in hands of military and LE like the spiffing Beretta.

-J

[Kladdagh]

That was GREAT !!! ... And thanks again for the vintage ads ...

I am also a GlockFan since my first try of the 17 ...

 

[Miami_JBT]

4 hours ago, Jeff_Cooper said:

Great stuff! Thank you for taking time and effort on these! I've a one question regarding Beretta being '1st wonder nine'? I think in Europe the CZ 75 makes a solid case on beating the Italians on quality and capacity. So I take it CZ was not known is States at the time? In any case it came from the wrong side of the iron curtain, so would've never be found in hands of military and LE like the spiffing Beretta.

-J

The CZ was very much stuck behind the iron curtain. Very few came stateside via GIs stationed in Germany and buying them there prior to the end of the Cold War.

Also, the first Wonder-Nine wasn't the CZ. That would be the S&W Model 59, since it was the truly first DA/SA double stack 9mm duty pistol. Guns like the Browning Hi-Power and the MAB PA-15 were SAO guns. 

[Miami_JBT]

On 5/2/2021 at 5:43 PM, MichaelAce said:

I'm not progun for several reasons but I've always liked to see a good looking pistol in any movie or show, I've bought several airsoft replicas including a silver Colt 1911 (carried with a Galco Miami Classic Shoulder Holster), a matte black 92FS, a Glock 17 and I plan to get a Detonics .45 for my ankle, just like Crockett since I love the look of a compact 1911, able to be carried and concealed so easily

I'm confused. Why go through the hassle carrying airsoft when they aren't real firearms?

 

Anyways.....

 

Spain’s Exceptional Conceal Carry Gun: the Star PD 45 Pistol

 

 

 

In 1975, a company in my ancestral home of España (Spain) released to the shooting community what was then one of the most desired handguns in the world. A compact, lightweight aluminium framed, .45 ACP pistol styled after the 1911. That company was Star Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A. and the pistol was the Star PD 45.

 

Star Bonifacio Echeverria started making guns in 1905 and sadly went out of business in 1997 with the end of the Cold War and the downturn in the European arms market. But from 1975 to 1990, Star turned out the estimable PD 45, a fantastic little gem of a pistol.
 

A Colt commander-size 1911 and a compact Star PD 45

Weighing in at 25oz and having a capacity of 6+1, the Star PD was advanced for its era. It sported adjustable rear sights, a polished feed ramp and a fantastic trigger. The layout and ergonomics of the gun scream 1911 but the field stripping and design are more reminiscent of the Browning Hi-Power.
 

Just like the Hi-Power, the slide is retracted and the safety is engaged in the takedown notch, then the slide stop pin is pushed out. No need to manually line up the slide and awkwardly hold it there as with a 1911. There’s a removable barrel bushing like a 1911 and the PD 45 has no grip safety like a Hi-Power. The recoil spring has a plastic recoil bushing to keep the abuse down on the pistol’s aluminum frame during firing.

And that aluminum frame is the pistol’s one flaw. While the PD 45 is an impressive carry gun, it’s not built for hours and hours of range time and tens of thousands or rounds put through it. Star frames are known to crack if their buffers aren’t replaced regularly. Still, the late great Col. Jeff Cooper loved it for its intended role — combat-capable CCW pistol. But even he knew its limits. The colonel saw the gun for what it is . . .
 

 

“A gun to be carried much and fired little” – Col. Jeff Cooper, April 1975 in Guns & Ammo magazine

As a carry piece, though it truly excels. In the late 1970s and 1980s, the Star PD 45 was a very popular piece for plain clothes police work and personal protection. Remember that back then ammunition wasn’t what it is today. Most semi-autos would choke on anything that wasn’t hardball and that meant that the 9mm wasn’t the best choice for law enforcement work.

Hence the popularity of the .45 ACP. My particular Star PD was used as an off duty carry piece back in the late 1970s by my very own father when he was a plain clothes detective in Miami.
 

Accuracy back then was just as good as it is today.
 

My father carried the Star PD 45 as his off duty piece during the height of Miami’s cocaine drug wars. As a Homicide Detective who worked cases putting drug dealers away, he wanted something that packed a punch, wouldn’t quit, and could keep his kid safe.

Back then, the drug cartels had no issues going after cops, especially when some of their hit men were dirty cops themselves. But thankfully that era is long gone.

Today my father is retired and the Star PD 45 has also been relegated to the safe. But even in retirement, both my father and the pistol get to relive their glory days occasionally.
 

Star PD 45 Specifications

Weight: 25 oz
Length: 7.1inches
Barrel Length: 3.9inches
Width: 1.2inches
Height: 4.9inches
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 6+1

A common misconception is that the “PD” in the name stands for “Police Department.” Nope. PD were the initials of Pete Dickey an Interarms employee (the US importer of Star pistols) who submitted the original design idea for the pistol to Star Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A.

Today, these old school classics are gaining popularity again in collector circles. The average price for one is good condition is about $450. Parts are hard to find as are magazines since Star has been gone for 20 years now. But that doesn’t mean you should overlook a PD 45 if you spot one in your local gun store’s case or on a table at a show. If you want a blast from the past don’t let one slip past you.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Miami_JBT

[miamijimf]

Great stuff Miami_JBT  I have three Glocks in my gun safe.  Do you think we can say as a general rule that Glock's automatic trigger safety lever is a safe as a manual safety on the side of a good quality handgun?

Also does keeping a pistol magazine fully loaded for long periods significantly weaken the spring?

Edited May 3, 2021 by miamijimf

[Miami_JBT]

1 hour ago, miamijimf said:

Great stuff Miami_JBT  I have three Glocks in my gun safe.  Do you think we can say as a general rule that Glock's automatic trigger safety lever is a safe as a manual safety on the side of a good quality handgun?

Also does keeping a pistol magazine fully loaded for long periods significantly weaken the spring?

The GLOCK has three safeties. One is the safe action trigger, two is the semi-cocked striker, and three is the firing pin block. None of them are manual safeties. The GLOCK is super safe. Carried one variant or another  for my entire  career. 

Magazine springs are only worn out when used. Compressing and uncompressing them causes wear on the springs. Keeping them compressed and under tension isn't a problem. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Miami_JBT

[MichaelAce]

5 hours ago, Miami_JBT said:

I'm confused. Why go through the hassle carrying airport when they aren't real firearms?

Oh, nothing to do with airports, I just like the fashion of the concealed holsters whenever I go training

[Robbie C.]

7 hours ago, Miami_JBT said:

The CZ was very much stuck behind the iron curtain. Very few came stateside via GIs stationed in Germany and buying them there prior to the end of the Cold War.

Also, the first Wonder-Nine wasn't the CZ. That would be the S&W Model 59, since it was the truly first DA/SA double stack 9mm duty pistol. Guns like the Browning Hi-Power and the MAB PA-15 were SAO guns. 

Very true. Had a friend who was really into CZs in the late '80s, and they were considered rather exotic then.

[Mr. Vigilante]

Great thread!!  Thanks to you and your father for your service in law enforcement!  I would love to hear some of your father's stories.  The first gun I bought was the Beretta 92, mainly because that's what John McClane and Martin Riggs carried.  It is still my favorite pistol, followed closely by the Smith M&P, which I carried for about 6 years.  Before that we carried the Smith SW99, which I believe was discontinued.  For some reason that pistol never felt right in my hand, however it always shot well, and never had any issues with it.

[Miami_JBT]

3 hours ago, MichaelAce said:

Oh, nothing to do with airports, I just like the fashion of the concealed holsters whenever I go training

Doh! Damn auto correct.  Meant to type airsoft. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Miami_JBT