70's to 90's themed gun thread

[timm525]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Vigilante said:

Great thread!!  Thanks to you and your father for your service in law enforcement!  I would love to hear some of your father's stories.  The first gun I bought was the Beretta 92, mainly because that's what John McClane and Martin Riggs carried.  It is still my favorite pistol, followed closely by the Smith M&P, which I carried for about 6 years.  Before that we carried the Smith SW99, which I believe was discontinued.  For some reason that pistol never felt right in my hand, however it always shot well, and never had any issues with it.

The Beretta 92FS was my first pistol too, about 1990. A gift from my father at the time for my birthday. Still have it. Put many thousand rounds through it over the years. Totally reliable. After that I became a devout Glock guy, still am. 

[Miami_JBT]

AMT's On Duty Pistol that never went on duty.

 

 

Arcadia Machine & Tool, a company made famous by the hit 1980s sci-fi action/horror film, Terminator made a number of guns other than the seven inch all stainless Hardballer 1911. 

 

 

 

AMT was founded in 1977 in Irwindale, California and made their claim to fame with developing a number of guns in stainless steel like the movie famous Hardballer above. 

 

 

 

But by the late 80s, AMT knew that their little pocket pistols and hand cannons wouldn't keep them out of the poor house. The Law Enforcement Market was ripe for conquest and AMT saw a chance to enter the market and they did so with the On Duty Pistol. A double stack DA/SA and DAO 9mm and .40 S&W chambered duty size handgun. 

 

 The pushed it in the gun rags and in sales ads.

 

 

But the gun was a flop. Made from 1991 to 1994, the On Duty was plagued with issues. Small production numbers, lack of quality control, and a high price for a handgun that was competing against other brands like GLOCK, SIG Sauer, Smith & Wesson, Beretta, Heckler & Koch, and others. The MSRP for the On Duty was $700 and that hurt it, especially since AMT had a bad reputation of bad quality. Their other handguns were looked down upon due to most not working correctly out of the box. About the only quality part of that gun that was good across the board was the magazines. Why? Because they were made by Mec-Gar of Italy. 

 

Anyways, here are some better photos of the On Duty. Enjoy.

 

 

 

Notice the difference between the control levers on the .40 S&W and 9mm models. 

 

 

 

The gun could have been a viable contender if it was made by someone else. It had a lot of features that were popular in the early 1990s. It was event advertised as eventually being released in ,45 ACP but due to setbacks with AMT. That never happened. Oh well, it is another interesting entry in the high stakes LE Duty Gun market when beat cops as a whole were switching from six shot wheel guns to high capacity wonder-nines and barrier penetrating .40 cals. 

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Mr. Vigilante said:

Great thread!!  Thanks to you and your father for your service in law enforcement!  I would love to hear some of your father's stories.  The first gun I bought was the Beretta 92, mainly because that's what John McClane and Martin Riggs carried.  It is still my favorite pistol, followed closely by the Smith M&P, which I carried for about 6 years.  Before that we carried the Smith SW99, which I believe was discontinued.  For some reason that pistol never felt right in my hand, however it always shot well, and never had any issues with it.

I actually started off with a Browning Hi-Power if we're waxing nostalgic about pistols. Traded it to an old roommate for a Ruger Blackhawk in .45LC. Some days I kinda miss it, but I've since gone full S&W (3rd Gen and one of the M&P 2.0s in .45 ACP).

[Kladdagh]

10 hours ago, timm525 said:

The Beretta 92FS was my first pistol too, about 1990. A gift from my father at the time for my birthday. Still have it. Put many thousand rounds through it over the years. Totally reliable. After that I became a devout Glock guy, still am. 

Hey ... Same here  

[miamijimf]

My first pistol was an M1911A1 .45 that I bought in a gun store on the Tamiami Trail for $50.  Don't remember the year but probably around 1963.  Sure looked like an Army issue pistol with markings, serial numbers and all.  Wasn't told how it got into the gun store of course.  Used to shoot it out in the Glades.  Wish I still had it.

Edited May 4, 2021 by miamijimf

[MichaelAce]

21 hours ago, Miami_JBT said:

Doh! Damn auto correct.  Meant to type airsoft. 

Firearms are forbidden in France, except for hunting, so no handguns
Airsoft is both fun times and security for me
Even though I've learned and currently use the cardinal safety rules, I don't plan to buy a real firearm, even if I move to the USA because it's too much responsibility and risks of accidents for me, I'd rather hurt than kill

[Miami_JBT]

5 hours ago, MichaelAce said:

Firearms are forbidden in France, except for hunting, so no handguns
Airsoft is both fun times and security for me
Even though I've learned and currently use the cardinal safety rules, I don't plan to buy a real firearm, even if I move to the USA because it's too much responsibility and risks of accidents for me, I'd rather hurt than kill

Category B1 licenses allow the ownership of handguns. I have friends in France and they own some very nice handguns like Manurhin MR73s along with ARs and AKs. 

I'm not bringing politics into this so that's that.

But the idea of airsoft as a self defense tool is a bad idea. 

[Kladdagh]

Correct ... Cat. B are allowed in France for sport shooting if you are a civilian.

But, for defense of your house, you could choose to use a blank gun than an airsoft (AND a REAL gun of course)...

I have several friends who have airsoft guns and riffles for defense ... 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Kladdagh
precision

[Miami_JBT]

4 hours ago, Kladdagh said:

Correct ... Cat. B are allowed in France for sport shooting if you are a civilian.

But, for defense of your house, you could choose to use a blank gun than an airsoft (AND a REAL gun of course)...

I have several friends who have airsoft guns and riffles for defense ... 

That's an issue with your self defense laws. But to say that you can't own a handgun in France is a misstatement of facts. In Florida, we have Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground. Lethal Force with a firearm is fully justified here if someone  breaks into your home and attempts to attack you.

I keep a GLOCK 17L as my bedside gun.

An airsoft replica is a very bad idea for self defense. Very, VERY BAD. If I had the choices of either  an airsoft replica or a kitchen knife.  The knife wins all week and twice on Sunday. 

[Miami_JBT]

Speaking  of France....

 

Member cundiff5535 over at Arfcom posted this and might I say. I am JEALOUS! First and foremost, the MR73 is not a Sows Ear in any way. But his had some mileage on it.

 

Around a year ago I posted a MR73 revo I snagged off GB in the group. The MR73 was a police trade in that looked a bit rough on the outside, but mechanically was in perfect working order! At the time, I was really excited to get it, but I knew it was only a matter of time before it went off to someone to get some special treatment. Once I got the gun and made my mind up that I was going to get work done on it, I called several friends and asked who they thought I should sent it to. Four names came up right away... Ted Yost, Karl Beining, Dave Laubert, and Brandan Bunker. 

Because I am friends with Brandan (and know his work well), I called him first... he told he he was not doing any work on anything other than 1911's these days and that he just did not have time. I knew if I bugged him enough, he would likely do it, but... why not call the others on the short list and see how the experience would go. 

Second, I called Ted. Ted flat out told me he had no desire to work on an MR73 and currently he was only working on Smiths (and maybe Colts if I remember correctly). Either way, Ted said no but did recommend Karls work. 

From there I called Karl and we spoke for around 30 mins. He was a real gentleman and we had a nice conversation about the MR73. During the chat, he told me the turn around time would be a bit longer than I wanted to wait. I told him I was going to call Dave and chat with him and make a decision from there. 

Last on the list... Dave Laubert. I had never heard of Dave Laubert until I got to listen to him on a Primary and Secondary Modcast. From there his name kept coming up so I decided to really look at what he was doing. At the time, he had just finished up the two gun revo set "spinny twins" which I thought were lights out. I had heard guys like Steve Fisher talk about Daves 1911 work. My chat with Dave was fantastic... He may be one of the nicest dudes Ive ever spoke to (for real). I could tell his revo build philosophy was different than Karls, and he had me intrigued. I asked about wait time, and initially it was much much faster than what Karl told me. 

From my chats, I knew if I went with Karl, the revo would be stellar... A spin on a classic revolver, refined to the last detail! I knew Karl would take the thing, do his magic, have it re-engraved, and have the thing looking better than ever. With Dave, I figured the some of the finer detail might get lost, but it would be as if someone took a classic and made it into a modern day fighting weapon... a straight hot rod! Like 69 Camero with a 2020 Corvette ZR1 engine in it. 

Whether the above is 100% true, this was what I took away. 

Ultimately, I decided to go with Dave... literally it was a total coin flip... So, I sent the revo to dave and thought I was headed into a project with a 90 day turn around. As with all custom work times get messed up, things happen in life, and 90 days turns into a year. Oh well... Its the way it is in custom guns. 

So thats the back story. 

Once I sent the gun to Dave, I told him my vision of the gun and then said, other than the initial thoughts, do your thing, just keep me looped in! It seemed like he was pretty much excited to get into the project and he definitely brought me in on the details as he was going (which was awesome). Because I am a very very meticulous person, I often times expect perfection when it comes to my guns. I am always very upfront about this... and either the smith tells me that he's probably not the guy to do the work (which tells me I don't want him doing the work), or he assures me he will be making sure there are no short cuts taken. 

The guidelines I gave Dave were as follows: New rear sight, Gold Front sight, trigger work, adn for him to do whatever the hell he wanted to it! I told him that I wanted his spin on a full blown modern day fighting revo... and that exactly what he did! Some of work done is below:

Remove and shorten barrel from 4" to 3" and resinstall
Crown Barrel
Slab Side Barrel
Recut forcing cone on barrel
Machine to accept new front sight
Make new front sight, Serrate, and install 14k .080 gold bead
Machine receiver to accept one off custom rear sight
Make new rear sight
Chamfer charging holes
Full trigger work
Case Color hammer and trigger
Remove all roll marks from gun
Complete polish on flats and matte blast rounds
Nitre Blue screws 

As you will see from the pictures, Dave started a rear sight on the revo... He asked me what I thought. I was very honest and told him I was hoping he could fill in the old channel that was used for the rear sight. He told me he did not think so... and literally the next day he said he liked the idea and worked his magic. 

From there he started his work and as you can see from the pics, he sent me a ton of progress shots! I was very impressed and happy that he did as I wanted to share.

So, here you all go... The original gun, the progress pics, and the final product (when I get the revo back this week, Ill post more close up pics). Would love to hear everyones feedback!

Here are some pics of the original gun as it came from GB according to cundiff5535.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are the in-progress pictures that cundiff5535 was sent:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Final Product.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff_Cooper]

^

What a lovely revolver! Just lovely!

As for airsoft for self defence, I'm with you. Don't think it is a very wise choice. If something of that kind needs to be used an airgun would be a better (slightly, but still) choice methinks. There are also specific T4E models that pack some punch but are still a far cry from firearm. Knife, bat, hockey stick etc. all would serve better in SHTF-situation

-J

[Miami_JBT]

[Miami_JBT]

Paris Theodore originally owned Armament Systems and Procedures. It’s said that it took over 200 machining operations to turn a S&W Model 39 into an ASP. This is what started what would become the micro 9mm subcompact pistol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Images courtesy of S&WChad

 

[timm525]

Wow, that was a beautiful restore on that revolver. Nice. 

[Gary1911A1]

As a side note to Miami_JBT post on the MR73 Revolver, Beretta is going to be importing these revolvers at expensive price. https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin-mr73-sport-5-25/

I would of liked to try one of these in PPC Competition back in the day.  

[Miami_JBT]

27 minutes ago, Gary1911A1 said:

As a side note to Miami_JBT post on the MR73 Revolver, Beretta is going to be importing these revolvers at expensive price. https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin-mr73-sport-5-25/

I would of liked to try one of these in PPC Competition back in the day.  

Manurhin has always been expensive. The prices Beretta are importing them at is fsir market value. 

[Miami_JBT]

[miamijimf]

Thought some of you might be interested in this site, if you haven't seen it before.  They charge but might be worth it if you are looking for info about an old gun.  I'm not endorsing this site in any way.

https://www.patreon.com/ForgottenWeapons

Edited May 7, 2021 by miamijimf

[timm525]

I had high hopes several years back when Vltor had resurrected the Bren Ten project with an exact external replica of the original and they claimed they had obtained the rights to the name and the raven logo.  They were even going to release a 10mm Vice model in chrome. Going rate was said to be around $1,300.00. They even took some early deposits. The whole project folded and I’m not so sure if some didn’t get screwed on their deposits.

There is a thread on here somewhere that I started may years ago, all excited like too....

OK, found it. Here is the thread from 2008. So sad they never completed the project.

 

[Miami_JBT]

8 hours ago, miamijimf said:

Thought some of you might be interested in this site, if you haven't seen it before.  They charge but might be worth it if you are looking for info about an old gun.  I'm not endorsing this site in any way.

https://www.patreon.com/ForgottenWeapons

Ian and I have talked a number of times on rare guns. In fact I've done work on some guns even he didn't know about. 

Kimber's .40 S&W Polymer Framed Striker Fired that never was released.

Kimber was once looking to jump into the Striker Fired Polymer Duty Size Pistol market with the KPD series. KPD stood for Kimber Pro Defense. This was around the 2005-2006.



This was during the era when police department across the country were starting to drop their DA/SA and DAO Hammer Fired Metal Framed Duty Guns. You could say it was the start of the second pistol revolution in American law enforcement. These police departments wanted something lightweight, polymer framed, and chambered in .40 S&W. GLOCK was still leading the market with close to holding 60% of the market.



Smith & Wesson was starting to regain market share with the M&P series after the screw up that was the Sigma. Ruger, FN, SIG SAUER, and HK were nowhere to be seen as far as striker-fired goes. While Springfield Armory wasn't in the LE market. They were doing very well on the civilian side with their acquisition of sole importation rights of the Croatian HS2000 (XD Series) and marketing it as the X-treme Duty Pistol.

So Kimber seeing a new possible market; decided to jump into the LE Duty Gun game since they were already doing fairly well as an established manufacturer with their 1911s and they had some specialty sells to some SWAT teams across the country.

The gun was to be the hot new thing from Kimber. Interchangeable back straps, twelve-round capacity in .40 S&W and 16 rounds in 9mm, and it was all to be in an affordable striker-fired, and made in America.

The 2006 SHOT Show press release from Kimber said:

"The KPD will be offered in .40 S&W caliber initially and has all the bells and whistles currently popular in pistols of this design including an integral light rail, ambidextrous magazine release, ample magazine capacity (12 rounds), large dovetailed three-dot combat sights with night sights available as an option, and interchangeable backstraps that allow the user to fit the gun to their hand. It is a handsome gun and made in the U.S.A."



It would also come with an internal lock and a magazine disconnect as an option.

Here are screen captures from their website back in 2006.





They put ads in every gun rag in the rack and built anticipation.



It was even listed in the 2006 price guides.







I remember this gun was being talked about heavily here on Arfcom. Folks were really excited to see such an offer from Kimber. Then out of nowhere, the gun disappeared. By 2008, Kimber pulled all ads from their magazines and removed the gun from their website.



I remember visiting their booth at the 2007 SHOT Show in Orlando and there was no sigh of it. At the various trade shows like NRA Annual meetings and other SHOT Shows, I've asked Kimber reps whatever happened to it. The floor reps at the Kimber booth had a clue as to what I was talking about.

The most common theory that I've heard is that Kimber didn't want to produce the gun so they sold the design to Ruger and Ruger released it as the SR9.



The Ruger SR9 really does look like the Kimber KPD. But if you look at the Ruger versus the Kimber. The slide stop pin location is different as are a number of other features.



In my talks with Kimber, what really happened is that they decided not to go into the LE striker-fired market and instead sat on the design, reworked it, and released it as the Solo.

Their Senior Marketing Director told me "I have only been with Kimber for about 4 months so I had to ask around about the KPD .40 Evidently we had issues with this design and decided not to move forward with it." He further confimred that they basically reworked it into the Solo and later the EVO SP.



When you look at the Solo and the KPD. The slide stop pin, extractor, trigger pivot pin, magazine release button, and general layout match up. Same with the EVO SP



In the end, it is a gun that never saw the light of day. I'm curious how many KPDs are currently sitting at Kimber and if any will ever see the light of day.

[Gary1911A1]

I had hopes Ruger would get involved in bring the Bren Ten back to life. They have the funds and know how to get it done. Alas we seem to be living in a polymer frame striker fired world now. 

[Miami_JBT]

10 hours ago, Gary1911A1 said:

I had hopes Ruger would get involved in bring the Bren Ten back to life. They have the funds and know how to get it done. Alas we seem to be living in a polymer frame striker fired world now. 

The problem is Ruger does investment casting. The Bren Ten would be the size of a Desert Eagle. Look at how big the Ruger P90 is already. 

[Miami_JBT]

[Kladdagh]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:55 PM, Miami_JBT said:

That's an issue with your self defense laws. But to say that you can't own a handgun in France is a misstatement of facts. In Florida, we have Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground. Lethal Force with a firearm is fully justified here if someone  breaks into your home and attempts to attack you.

I keep a GLOCK 17L as my bedside gun.

An airsoft replica is a very bad idea for self defense. Very, VERY BAD. If I had the choices of either  an airsoft replica or a kitchen knife.  The knife wins all week and twice on Sunday. 

I am with you with your statement ... Some laws for protection are a little akward but ... 

And yes, better have a knife and/or a blank gun (in the case we are talking about) than a replica ... that is my point.

Oh ... And great tunning with the MR73 ... this gun is amazing 

Would love to have a Bren Ten but, I'll try for a Colt 1911A1 instead.

[Gary1911A1]

On 5/7/2021 at 9:03 PM, Miami_JBT said:

The problem is Ruger does investment casting. The Bren Ten would be the size of a Desert Eagle. Look at how big the Ruger P90 is already. 

I believe the original Bren Tens used cast frames. Can't find a link to prove that. Also I have have read it was the first pistol to use MIM parts. I believe a reproduction would sell, but only in small numbers. In the meantime whenever I get the urge to shoot mine I just shoot one of Witness Pistols in 10MM. This is one of my favorites. I walked into a local gunshot one Saturday and there it was in the case and I knew I was going to buy it. Glad I did.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Gary1911A1