My plans for my Daytona replica

[jurassic narc]

In the previous responses someone mentioned a spare tire? Where would that be I do not even see where one could fit.Bob

In McBurnie and Rowley cars the spare was either in the trunk or in the garage. There is no place in that body style for a spare. Carl Roberts cars have a well inside the trunk where the spare sits. In order to do that, Carl moved the gas tank to the area behind the seats underneath the convertible top. My car was originally that way, but I moved the tank under the trunk and did away with my spare tire well.

[Kavinsky]

In McBurnie and Rowley cars the spare was either in the trunk or in the garage. There is no place in that body style for a spare. Carl Roberts cars have a well inside the trunk where the spare sits. In order to do that' date=' Carl moved the gas tank to the area behind the seats underneath the convertible top. My car was originally that way, but I moved the tank under the trunk and did away with my spare tire well.[/quote']so instead of that storage area behind the seats where Noogie sat yours had a gas tank then? hmm no wonder you changed that

[jurassic narc]

so instead of that storage area behind the seats where Noogie sat yours had a gas tank then? hmm no wonder you changed that

The car as an 82 had a EFI engine, but had been replaced with a crate. As a result the gas tank had a connection that had been pressurized and developed a pin-hole leak. No matter what I did I could not get rid of the gas smell. I finally moved the tank, and not only lost the smell---but the uneasy feeling of hearing raw gas sloshing around right behind my back!!!

[Kavinsky]

The car as an 82 had a EFI engine' date=' but had been replaced with a crate. As a result the gas tank had a connection that had been pressurized and developed a pin-hole leak. No matter what I did I could not get rid of the gas smell. I finally moved the tank, and not only lost the smell---but the uneasy feeling of hearing raw gas sloshing around right behind my back!!![/quote']So your car before Roberts rebodied it had that engine? I think I remember reading that the EFI injection system on the 82's which was a last year option for the last of the C3's were kind of troublesome if they werent set up correctly and usually got replaced by crates because of that.which might explain why it was replaced with a crate motor and yeah I think I wouldnt want to have the tank right behind me either even if it was one with a bladder like the either 73 or 75 and onwards vettes had(I cant remember, think it was a 75 as Alleycat said her brothers was a 74 and didnt have it) still though probably could just stuff a spare in the trunk or behind me for a long trip secured with leather belts like they do in the miura and the TR, probably wouldnt leave much space though for other storage.but still it would probably have more space than that 911 targa I saw at the shops the other day, man that was bloody ridiculous. he was stuffling pool stuff behind the seats of a polished up red and black 1980's 911 carrera targa that I swear was longer than the finishing poles they put in the daytona for glades and having alot of trouble just fitting that in there, big foam lines and he couldnt even fit them in there.I actually broke out laughing when I saw that, everyday sports car my butt! complete with button up shirts sititng on the seats when I walked in.

[Kavinsky]

I've just been thinking this over and trying to figure out why I love yet hate the TR and what I'd like to Incorperate from it into the daytonayou see I didnt quite figure this out recently but its body is like that of a basically Lotus Espirt S2/S3 if had a V12 instead of a 4 which has always been regarded as a wedge sports car that you can live unlike the countach, because well its a countach and also the TR.Because of its super heavy clutch and the fact that its got no power steering and that mixed in with its wider track than a ford GT makes it hard to use on a daily basis which I distinctly remember Don Having trouble with in a parking space in one of the S3 episodes with a cop looking on, Red Tape I think, so provided you work out all of the mechanical gremlins with it and dont abuse it the lotus was and is regarded as a very good alternative to them, provided you work out the issues first.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGwokPpDy3A

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMnPMe3XjUQ

and I guess that's kind of why I have sort of a love hate kinda deal with the TR as at some angles it really does look like a mixture of a lotus S2/ the Berlineta Boxerhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6208&stc=1&d=1339387429http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6211&stc=1&d=1339387582http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6209&stc=1&d=1339387430 and it has hints of the dodge charger and the 308 when it comes to the rear window fixture and the hood over the engine:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6210&stc=1&d=1339387580its just that well the spoilers really needed to be painted gloss to blend into the body so it bends in next to the gloss and doesnt cause the bumpers to stick out and I think it could have used a smoother looking bumper in general like the Koenig onesbasically that with the stock spoiler on the bottom and without the lines over the middle. and more refinement over the air inakes, basically thnned out on the ends as it needs something therehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6212&stc=1&d=1339388892

[Kavinsky]

and I cant imagine it looking good without the black spoilers on the bottom:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6213&stc=1&d=1339389068and this ones got the 89 turn signals on it by the way, but not to that extent it was, basically it needed a treatment not unlike the one on the aston's reverse of it on the 1-77

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=009tfoqc5Ao

not to mention the 89 turn signal indicators but well that wasnt until a few years latter that they did that, and hell you can see just what kind of a difference the painted spoilers do to this one, an 86 like they had in the show:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6207&stc=1&d=1339387427http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6206&stc=1&d=1339387426http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6205&stc=1&d=1339387424vs with Matt spoilers on the bottom in its original black metalic paint job in Irish Eyes:hell it makes me wonder if the reason why they went with Milk White was because it looked like Bonds S1 lotus with that paint job:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUxpXy1Oot4

really should have left it black though, a HUGE missed opportunity in the coolness and badassery deparment, and with the S3 story telling and mixture of colors well I get the feeling that would have been damn near pefect season then lookwise, outside of the bright pink shirt he wore during S3 at the middle and end, like in by Hooker by Crook and Better Living Though Chemstry cant save that anyway you look at it and I've only seen that pulled off once and it was by the lead guy from Trouble Man:

and that was because it was mixed in with a turquise greyish light blue 70's suit that covered most of it up, although with a purple jacket it kinda worked in Hooker, strange looking but it kinda worked.actually looking at the 89 TR there its missing the red aft side indicators and the yellow front one like the vice one has, wonder if thats because of its age that it doesnt need to have those anymore?http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6212&stc=1&d=1339388892

[alleycat]

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGwokPpDy3A

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMnPMe3XjUQ

and I guess that's kind of why I have sort of a love hate kinda deal with the TR as at some angles it really does look like a mixture of a lotus S2/ the Berlineta Boxerhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6208&stc=1&d=1339387429http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6211&stc=1&d=1339387582http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6209&stc=1&d=1339387430 and it has hints of the dodge charger and the 308 when it comes to the rear window fixture and the hood over the engine:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6210&stc=1&d=1339387580its just that well the spoilers really needed to be painted gloss to blend into the body so it bends in next to the gloss and doesnt cause the bumpers to stick out and I think it could have used a smoother looking bumper in general like the Koenig onesbasically that with the stock spoiler on the bottom and without the lines over the middle. and more refinement over the air inakes, basically thnned out on the ends as it needs something therehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6212&stc=1&d=1339388892

Your so right I thought the TR looked like the Lotus.You know when I was watching MV back then and the TR made its big debut I thought it was a Lotus too.Then both look so similar and during that time I was thinking of buying a Lotus and would you believe it was white also.A real nice car.

[alleycat]

So your car before Roberts rebodied it had that engine? I think I remember reading that the EFI injection system on the 82's which was a last year option for the last of the C3's were kind of troublesome if they werent set up correctly and usually got replaced by crates because of that.which might explain why it was replaced with a crate motor and yeah I think I wouldnt want to have the tank right behind me either even if it was one with a bladder like the either 73 or 75 and onwards vettes had(I cant remember' date=' think it was a 75 as Alleycat said her brothers was a 74 and didnt have it) still though probably could just stuff a spare in the trunk or behind me for a long trip secured with leather belts like they do in the miura and the TR, probably wouldnt leave much space though for other storage.but still it would probably have more space than that 911 targa I saw at the shops the other day, man that was bloody ridiculous. he was stuffling pool stuff behind the seats of a polished up red and black 1980's 911 carrera targa that I swear was longer than the finishing poles they put in the daytona for glades and having alot of trouble just fitting that in there, big foam lines and he couldnt even fit them in there.I actually broke out laughing when I saw that, everyday sports car my butt! complete with button up shirts sititng on the seats when I walked in.[/quote'] Regarding my brother's orange vette.God,I loved that car and had been in it many times.My brother's did not have the bladder at that time and it was a 74 a real beauty.My brother then was married and his wife was sort of scared to drive it because she was so low to the ground specially on the highways with those big semi trucks.But she drove so many times I don't think she was that scared and I was with her a couple of times.I had some great times with that vette.I would be bothered by the hearing the sloshing of fuel also not something I would want to hear also.

[Kavinsky]

Regarding my brother's orange vette.God,I loved that car and had been in it many times.My brother's did not have the bladder at that time and it was a 74 a real beauty.My brother then was married and his wife was sort of scared to drive it because she was so low to the ground specially on the highways with those big semi trucks.But she drove so many times I don't think she was that scared and I was with her a couple of times.I had some great times with that vette.I would be bothered by the hearing the sloshing of fuel also not something I would want to hear also.

yeah I dont like to drive on the highways myself and even in a normal sedan I've nearly had a semi truck driver damn near knock me off of the road once, part of the reason why when going to my local mall I just use the backroads although even then those are in serious disrepair plus the tight parking spots.

[Kavinsky]

Well just thinking things over the more I think about it the more apparent it is that I should really hold off on this and make plans to leave MA for greener pastures then pursue this down the linePlus I have a modern car to begin with and no garage nor place to store a 30 year old collectors car away from the winters and salt here hence why I havent been really contributing to this thread in awhile after thinking things over and realizing how bad it really is after talking with Jarma about the things I have to deal with as a gun owner alone in MA here.but the plan comes down to leaving MA for somewhere else, I dont know how long that will take, best bet seems to be NH but some of the MA idiots that have moved there are now causing problems so that's sort of iffy, but maybe go somewhere further south away from the problem towns like Boston where basically the majority of gun owners suffer because of Tom Meninos regieme and the idiots in a particular Burrough in Boston that's noted for crime and drug use.roxburry or rochester or something like that along with the south end where whitey and his buddies were from.its always on the news here that someones been shot or stabbed down there all the time with channel 7 sticking there cameras in there face literally after the parents learn about it, like something straight out of that old song Dirty Laundry. no shame and no dignity from channel 7 or channel 4, I always feel like doing what eastwood did with there camera in the dead pool with that kind of crap with the reporter, the scene where the girlfriend of Jim Carrys character just learns of his drug overdose and they throw there camera in her face and ask her how does she feel and then eastwood while telling them to back off and give her some room finally snaps and throws the camera breaking it.wish that would happen everytime they pull that crap, you know cost them about atleast 5 grand for every persons life they try and televise right after the worst thing in there life has happened to thembut anyways roxybury is right next to Notheastern university I think too, a place my brother went years ago so now you've got college kids mingling in a bad area where you pay your kids to go to school, great.and for the record where I live there hasn't been a single stabbing or shooting ever in the time I've lived here, its just problem cities like boston that make places seem alot worse than what they are, the rest of MA is a very nice place to live outside of the damn 15 percent sales tax on everything and the bs legislation passed by Menion and his regime where they try and take you for everything your worth.all the more reason not to vote for Ralph Nader I might add, he wants to institute that 10 or 15% sales tax for the whole country and that is a huge pain in the ass here in MA, its basically throwing away a good 600 bucks per year if you have a new car to the state, might as well just throw it in the road and burn it, it would have about the same effect.he's not going to win but his pull on the key people people are voting for could make all the difference in the world wither or not we keep a spin doctor communist as a president.anyways you gotta figure theres probably a ton of states that suffer from having one bad city like that that ruins the state and makes the majority suffer for the minority so I gotta be carefull about what place I choose plus I dont want to live in an area that has any sort of realistic chance of being hit by a hurricane or serious weather too.plus avoid places where a bunch of rich people live and jack up the price and tax of living like in Connecticutso all of that is going to take awhile and in the meantime I have a home to fix up and other things to deal with in prep for that, so god knows how long thats really going to take, sorry if this seems to make this a waste of time but I gotta get my priorities straight and it doesnt mean I cant still like the car and come up with ideas for it to help you guys who have the actual cars to pick and choose from the stuff I find or come up with for your own rides along with just being interested in the daytona and car stuff period, it just means that for me this is going to be on ice for a long time while you guys get to live the dream.

[Youngman]

McBurnie need a new homeI have just gotten back from my honeymoon and cold reality has set in. It is apparent that we will need a house. I am going to sell my McBurnie Daytona Spyder. I am the second owner, the car has less than 4600 miles on it. I have driven it alot this summer and EVERYTHING WORKS!. I had the transmission rebuilt last year and had a NEW radiator put in (it was leaking a little and I am a neat freak) this year. It has the 1987 corvette C4 fuel injected engine and TONS or TORQUE! Everything is leather and the paint is original and in GREAT shape. I want $29,500 which for a true factory McBurnie I think you will not find another in this nice of shape with this low of mileage. I can deliver with 400 miles you pay gas both ways. It has no issues ready to go!It has a clear Illinois title with the manufacture of Mcburnie

[grave_digga]

Really a nice ride.

[Kavinsky]

I have just gotten back from my honeymoon and cold reality has set in. It is apparent that we will need a house. I am going to sell my McBurnie Daytona Spyder. I am the second owner' date=' the car has less than 4600 miles on it. I have driven it alot this summer and EVERYTHING WORKS!. I had the transmission rebuilt last year and had a NEW radiator put in (it was leaking a little and I am a neat freak) this year. It has the 1987 corvette C4 fuel injected engine and TONS or TORQUE! Everything is leather and the paint is original and in GREAT shape. I want $29,500 which for a true factory McBurnie I think you will not find another in this nice of shape with this low of mileage. I can deliver with 400 miles you pay gas both ways. It has no issues ready to go!It has a clear Illinois title with the manufacture of Mcburnie[/quote']I'm sorry man but I gotta get out of here, MA I mean, my state and I got alot of stuff on my plate right now, I've also got a modern car already and I dont have the facilities to properly take care of a vintage car even if its modernized and with the winters, salt and bad roads that these morons are constantly fucking up (half of hudson, the town over where I get food from BJ's is god damn road construction, rocks and metal plates over the roads!) the car would be dust in months and I cant in good conscience do that to a car thats mint like that as these roads are killer to modern cars alone where as a normal daily driver is dust in about 5 to 10 years from rust, let alone one of the old ones.plus they tax you to hell for everything here, for a modern ride, a new one thanks to that 15% sales tax its an extra 300 bucks thrown to the wind for nothing to the MA govement and mafia road construction crews per YEAR, hell in germany this kind of road work would have been sorted long ago and the idiots responsible for these pot holes and really bad frost heaves fired and probably shot for good riddance.however Stinger 390X here said he was looking for one on the daytona thread a little while back, this would probably fit the bill and fit it well, could also try cooper and burnett, I'm sorry man that I cant go for it but I wish you the best of luck.I still look at the ebay stuff to see what kind of ones come across there, if theres anything worth keeping the photos of for reference (the save page as trick to save the photos, the guy here does that exclusively) http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/index.htmland well Miami Spyders is a known sleasebag and one of the worst hence why I posted about him, thats why I keep looking, just for reference and ideas.

[alleycat]

I have just gotten back from my honeymoon and cold reality has set in. It is apparent that we will need a house. I am going to sell my McBurnie Daytona Spyder. I am the second owner' date=' the car has less than 4600 miles on it. I have driven it alot this summer and EVERYTHING WORKS!. I had the transmission rebuilt last year and had a NEW radiator put in (it was leaking a little and I am a neat freak) this year. It has the 1987 corvette C4 fuel injected engine and TONS or TORQUE! Everything is leather and the paint is original and in GREAT shape. I want $29,500 which for a true factory McBurnie I think you will not find another in this nice of shape with this low of mileage. I can deliver with 400 miles you pay gas both ways. It has no issues ready to go!It has a clear Illinois title with the manufacture of Mcburnie[/quote']Oh My Gosh!!!! a gorgeous beauty

[russellgarrard]

Great... now I need to change my underwear and shorts...If I had the cash this would be getting a new home in aussieland...

[Kavinsky]

You know I was just thinking about what I like about the daytona and why I'm also yet still hung up on the what could of been with the testarossa.when I was a kid, I was a 100% a coupe and muscle car guy. although I liked the occasional clean design like the 911 with a whale tail put on the end. sheerly just for the sake of screwing up the clean lines that my old man always loved about the first gen 911's probably.but there was only one exotic I ever liked back then and that was the countach (and sort of the car used in Phil the shil, the jalpa or sillouette or whatever it was called which came with a wing too) with all the wings and crap hanging off it. it was the most outlandish, garish, fastest car (I rememeber I used to say the thing could do 230 mph when I was little) car that I knew about and even though the thing has the aerodynamics of a brick (it really does!)http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/collections/super-cars/1986-lamborghini-countach/index.shtmland it just occurred to me I see some of that crazyness in the TR, yet I also am older and I always like cars to have a balance between that and its lines like the countach had. as with the countach the wedge shape is unubstructed and smooth on the top, yet blocky on the bottom and the sidesbasically it looks symmetrical and aerodynamic yet ironically its badly not. and those two lips the testarossa has on its front bumper that seriously makes it look ugly were rigged up on it in the NAME of aerodynamics along with the overly thick lines over the air intakesall just to direct the air into them

even in black those ugly pucks up front accentuated by the oversized turn signal that was fixed in the 89 version and the overly strong lines of the sides over the air intakes just make it look blocky and ugly:http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott597/6945448177/and that's what bothers me about it, ferrari should have thrown caution to the wind and said to hell with the aerodynamics like they all should be doing now in the exotic world really, everything from italy looks so dull now because of that stupid obsession with a slightly faster car that can do some speed that's bloody useless, so they have to make it super smooth looking to breach that X amount air resistance at a of speed at 200 MPHanyways that aside, they should have completed the package when they were done with it, pulled out the front end and angled it properly with a nice sloping angle like on the countach and smoothed out the lines over the air intakes to make it look as sleak as the lotus esprit S2 and S3.they had it, they had a car to rival the countach and they had to mess it up by not finishing the job and just adding that extra accentuation of the wedge design to its front and smoothing out the sidesthat's what truely gets me about it, the white color thing bothering me was just a byproduct of the missuse of the white filters in the latter seasons making it look overly dull, that and it was a unique cooler color it came in first that just seemed like it was made for.http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/timm5252/Testarossa1watermark.jpgstill though I am glad vice heads have a choice between the two just like the boats, the looks and all of that. I just couldnt figure out till now what bothered me so much about the TR and why I distinctly hate the parts of it that dont line up with it yet I also love the look of it when its overal shape is seen in all its beauty:http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/timm5252/Testarossa5watermark.jpghttp://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/timm5252/Testarossa2watermark.jpghttp://www.flickr.com/photos/scott597/6945448091/where the front bumpers uglyness disapears next to the cars lovely side sillouette and the lines of the side blend into it betterplus that perfect back end it had http://www.miamiviceonline.com/screenshots/bullett08.jpgand the nice matt/ polished center wheels of the early models they did away with in 1987 the model year right after the vice onehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/screenshots/lady25.jpgand the left A pillar mirror that just looks coolbut with the bumper hell even a reversing of it would have worked better, the top protrudes over the front and slopes inwards like it kinda looks like herehttp://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/timm5252/Testarossa6watermark.jpghttp://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/timm5252/Testarossa9watermark.jpgsort of like it looked like it did during blood and roses when they were using the camera car that had the bits missing off of it like at 5:36 - 5:41 herehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zqqBq3n5I0&feature=relatedjust a case of so much wasted potential with that baby....... All on ferrari's part.

[Kavinsky]

Now with the daytona its routes are in a classic layout, the front engined, rear wheel layout with a proper trunk in its proper location (always thought that was stupid to have the storage area in the front of the TR)and its routes really start in 1960 with the Jaguar E Type, a car my old man saw one of the first of in 1961 on the radar site he was working on in Alaska (yeah someone actually went to the trouble of getting one of thee first E types and imported to the most remote location on earth! That's how much the guy loved it!)and there is one around where I live, my god the thing is just like that one and it was bloody beautifuland ever since then my old man has loved that layout, and so did Enzo Ferrari and I believe that because of the E type Enzo came up with the 250 Californian (the car mcburnie also made a replica out of using an MGB) and the 250 GTO (which he also made a replica of that was used on crime story and a John Candy film)but then in 1965 the demand for sports cars drastically changed with Lotus's success on the race track with a mid engined layout and then the fruits of the labor of love that was the miura hit the market blowing the doors of ferrari's pitiful standard and dull looking 275:a very dull car compaired to the masterpiece of the work force of Ferucio Lamborghini, the Miura:who ONLY started making cars because of enzo's lack of empathy for a shitty clutch on one of his cars which he made a point to bring to the bosses attention. poor lamborghini, a man who had worked his way up the hard way from the gutter and had great respect and empathy for his work force had to put up with it. till then and had some of his tractor people fix it and do a better job with it than ferrari's mechanicsand then that lead to the creation of this:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngEycqOO91A

which looks a hell of alot better than the 330 GTCanyways because of the miura and the Lotus's sucess along with Lola with mid engined cars people started seriously wanting midengined and midengined only sports cars from italy. there was still luxury cars that had the front engine layout but that was the begining of the end of the classic sportscar layout in italy till 5 years after enzo's death in 1995 when the plug was pulled on the testarossa after its long run.hence the coming of the Berlineta boxer Sonny had in the 1985 pepsi ad and magnums ferrari 308:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HByh60JAlc

but as a final gesture to the layout enzo liked he seriously made a point to be very involved with the creation of the daytona, to the point where it was the one and only time the man snapped at his coach builder when he did something he didnt like with it and the daytona was created with its beautiful body and the creation of the striped seats we now know as the daytona seats

but the story between enzo, the godfather figure and a working man was truthfully part of the reason why even when I was older I never looked into ferrari's without any interest

[Kavinsky]

I had originally seen the car for the first time long ago without making any note of it in the gumball rally:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnl4Y-nYdJE

the reason being plain, a bright ferrari red orange garish paint job vs the beautiful look of a dark red paint job:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6952&stc=1&d=1350629400and ironically because its got an earlier version of the center lock wheel on the testarossa instead of the borrani's which dont suit it as nicely as the wire wheelsand next to a cobra with a blacked out nose in dark blue with a black interior that had a subtitle understated badassery next to it the cobra was the much cooler car, like Steve Mcqueen's mustangalso made by a man who had been offered a job on ferrari's racing team who turned it down because it was an offer he couldnt afford as ferrari was noted for racing there drivers to the brink of destruction back then with so - so pay and Shelby had a family to think about.and shelby was mixed in with another case of Enzo pissing off the wrong man to mess with with his whims.so the name enzo ferrari wasnt exactly one I was a fan of, I always went with the underdogs and the original idea for the ultimate custom car for me was maybe to go with a 289 rigged up cobra replica but well no windows, no top, cramped interior quarters replicated like that car from the gumball rally.and 289's like the one shelby used were a special version called the hi po model that's kind of rare and the fact that everyones doing cobra replicas of varying quality kind of deflated that, plus the way the shifter is rigged up in the thing, doesnt seem like it would be easy to drive and even then the 289 would be a handfulas the 427's were noted for being widowmakers and it was esentally a car that had a BMW 6 cylinder motor put in as its designed and designated engine and then they put in a 260 V8, Then the 289, then the damn 427

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPXqsFacerQ

and the ferrari he was refering to was the white daytona spyder with the red stripe on the side in this oneand that wasnt actually a joke, an exageration maybe but the super snake was truely insane.the car was already bad enough with the small block controlability wise and the 427's gave even the race car drivers a hard time with itand compared to the corvette the corvette easily outsold ithell back in the day they couldnt GIVE away a cobra, its only the nostagia factor and pureity of its insanity that made everyone want one, it was in every respect the countach of the early 1960'sI love the thing but I wouldnt want to own one as in any configuration it would more than likely kill me, plus with all that power in such a small package it seems like its primary use is as a drag car, not a race car, nor touring car, or every day car and the people who love it love it because of that:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAaF4oe9c8M

[Kavinsky]

So that was the end of the cobra idea, now with the convertible thing I honestly didnt think much of it at first, you know there usually compromised cars in terms of body integrity, you have to worry more about someone breaking in and all that.plus they usually cant go as fast as they have to sturdy the body mounts to prevent body flex and that add's weight that and one of the comments I remember someone saying in the daytona vs the testarossa thread years agowhy not just roll down the window? well the wind catches at the back of the car and acts like a drum, a very unplesant kind of feeling behind you.and ironically well on the TR to get it more like the convertibile in that way they removed the rear window of the camera car for that very reason and only one car has had a removable rear window from the factory, the corvette C3 in the 1970's for a few years to my knowledgebut that all kind of changed one time when I went to germany on a family trip awhile ago, out of odd luck I bumped into an older guy at an airshow with my brother who happened to be taking care of one of the original mercedes benz's from the 1950's (in its design atleast) for a friend while he was on holiday.the baby version of the famous 300 SL gullwing in its convertible form which ironically in another twist of fate was one of the cars used in the gumball rally, the 300 SL convertible as well at 0:36

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTT1_JZp2Sg

didnt think much of it at first, it was one that looked like this, a 190:turns out he was unbeknownst to me a friend of the family who showed up at a family gathering, a cook out with everyone thereand next thing you know he remembered me looking at the thing and a family member who spoke english asked me for him if I wanted a ride and well I figured you know while I wasnt much of a fan of the car (as looks wise it looks kinda plain jane, something I'm not much for) why not?you know you never know, sometimes you may not like something at first until you try it, ironically the same thing that happened with vice in a way actually.that was the loveliest drive I've ever had in my life, through the german countryside in the middle of summer, the red leather interior of the car was super comfortable, soft like I've heard Brazilian leather is (and not super hot either, it was perfect) and it was an all original car, complete with a factory record player that worked and was playing an old record from the 1950's and the paint was original, it had a crack over the trunk lid from all of its years in germanybecause of the harsh weather in germany Mercedes usually used about 10KG of paint so while there was a crack there was no rust or bubbling from it, the thing was a survivor in every sense of the wordalso no seatbelts!!! felt like I was sitting on the edge of my seat in an odd way because of that.and ever since then I've kind of thought the ideal would be a convertible that isnt compromised integrity wise that maybe came with that optional hardtop that the mercs did back in the 1960'sunfortunately it seems like only the 1950's based model of the 190 SL are the really comfortable ones, I havent tried the ones in the 1980's but I did try a 1965 model that was at a local place about a few years agowas no where near as comfortable, a 4 speed manual, blue carpets, black dash, blue leather seats, hard top and all that in white, even without the 4 speed and the paint job I wouldnt have liked it either. very plain jane looking, I believe they called them the pagonda ones that's part of the reason awhile ago I asked on the daytona thread about the optional hardtop the mcburnies came with, I wondered how that worked as on the merc's they have two slots they connect into on the body and I didnt see those at all on the mcburnies.this was before I discovered vice and I always kind of thought okay, its gotta not be badly compromised, its gotta have some muscle and some flare, be comfortabile and not a pain in the ass to live with. like supercars and sports cars can be, hell that was the very reason my old man bought a porsche 914 back in the day, two trunks, plenty of cabin space, good gas mileage, targa top and all thatalthough he bought the first one and paid for it, badly, window broke, gearshift linkage was crap and vague gearbox, fuel injection gave outhe should have stuck with his fiat 124 spyder that outside of a recall with the brakes never gave him any problems and had a good gearshift linkage (the brakes on the front were too small and they had a recall midway through the first year production run)and it wasnt until 1973 that Porsche worked out all of the bugs with the 914, one year before they stopped making them, hence why when it comes to cars and guns I go by the thinking that latest and greatest aintand you should wait 2 - 5 years with a new design for all of the bugs to be worked out by the people who are very keen on the latest and greatest. hell even the TR had that happen to it in 1989 where they started making revisions to the car which came about in a full redesign in 1992.the daytona, the actual one however back in its day was basically all of the previous models lessons were learned and put into a new car, the dino 206/246 like interior with custom daytona seats, an upped but trustworthy engine in the old tried and true grand turismo layout.

[Kavinsky]

Now with the corvette its abit of an unusual car in the sense its a mixture of the grand turismo style and muscle car style of the 1960'syou see the C3 corvette was one of a handful of cars to survive the 1970's realtively intact save for an ugly redesign of the nose in 1980 for one of my favorite things in the world, aerodynamics, and its fiberglass construction ment it was able to have its top chopped off without really compromising its integrity ala some modern cars and old saab's hell people have even done that to post 1975 models too:http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0042/index.htmlhttp://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0056/index.htmlor even when it came to the daytona itself, which I believe had an alumiumn body. the factory spyders have a beam or beams that runs along either the front or the back of the cabin to prevent what's called cowl shake, basically body flexing. Something some spyder conversions didnt have and had to have retrofitted to them.hence why a spyder conversion on the daytona's are about as much as a normal coupe and not more unless its a really well done one. even then its nowhere near as much as the asking price for a geniune spyder and I believe the one daytona they had in S2 was one of these:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9peY2r0vz_Ygiven its missing aerial and somehow oddly the proportions and curvature of the rear deck do not have any sort of roundness to them like on the geniune spyders, its as flat as poker table.and ironically one of the other cars to benefit from a fiberglass construction was the lotus elan:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KWU1qlfIM

hence why well the lotus elan didnt need those structural improvements either and was able to keep the weight down with its fiberglass body, making it probably one of the nimblest cars on the planet.hence my interest in the vette's after learning about what the daytona was in the show, a rebodied vette which often gets sort of a bad wrap because of the company that made it, GM, hence why I never really looked into them seriously without any sort of serious interest until I found out about the daytona.GM is one of those companies where they only make things to a price point and only that and it's always shown even on the cool cars, like today's Corvette ZR1, which was built to a price point of a 100G and no moreand according to a study done by the fiat group recently who now owns chrystler, along with ferrari. the difference interior qualitywise is about 60 dollars in bulk between the corvette and the porsche 911, that little and there's tons of people who make custom interiors for there vettes, today and yesterday because of ithell the only time that wasnt the case it seemed was on the early vette's, the pre C3's, namely the C2, which is fantastic looking inside and out.you see the C3 has always had a one tone color interior, with no real wood, matching carpet, the paint on some of them doesnt age well,

and its sadly had the feel of a car that was built to a price point and it felt like that in the interior of one of the ones I sat in years ago, a beige interiored pre 1978 model C3 vette with a faded paint job.it was alright but it didnt have any sort of effect on me, it was kind of a faded orange, garish red like the ferrari there.and almost all of the vettes around here are like that, faded and on there way out, the only one that wasnt was a well kept C2 vette that rumbles around here once in awhile.kinda why I never seriously looked at one before, I thought it was just another steel bodied muscle car with the same old problemsdiscs in the front, drums on the rear, one of those single axel deals, I forget the term for it but basically its one solid axel on the back like on a truck that the muscle cars had mixed in with leaf springs and when mixed in with real horsepower above 250 NET HP (which is actual horsepower, with anything made before 1972 subtract a 100 hp for the real hosepower figure from america) and rubber bushings that are long since shot its asking for a disasterhell I think the cobra might have had a live axel actually.and in reality its got all around discs, fiberglass construction which has allowed these vette's to be driven daily and survive so long compared to most muscle cars from that era or even my old mans fiat 124 Spyder, one of which died here after 5 years of being exposed to the salt and wet weather in MA, not his though. (there is a trade off thought with that as fiberglass does harden and can crack in an accident, not just warp or get dented)can kind of see that happening here actually

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF2tSUrafGo

good god the 1980's C3's are uglyit has an independent suspension instead of a live axle although it does have leaf springs which can and can not be a good thing, in 1980 one of the positives of the redesign was they made the leaf springs out of fiberglass so it could take the road shocks better making the car more comfortabile and they are more durabile than the other kind.however not as preciseso in alot of ways the corvette is the smart mans muscle car

[Kavinsky]

and also that's not counting the engine options, because of its basement in the era of muscle cars the corvette was designed to take anything from a 327 (an option only for 1968) to the 454 motor which lasted until 1974. When the 350 became the one and only option with I think a few different options to boost performanceHowever the 454 produced enough horsepower to keep up with almost all of the modern vettes and american cars until the early 1990's with the new ZR1 hitting the market along with the Dodge Viper. a revival car of the widowmaker cobra complete with a momo veloce like steering wheel and pilot like seats in it in 1994 before federal law mandated that they have airbags.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_U3rSGXpz0

which I was also a fan of but unlike the countach have kind of grown out of oddly, outside of those two featuresbut in addition to that that alows the car to take modern engines, like on youngmans car. Hell the thing could potentially take a 6 Cylinder motor out of the modern camaro which now produces as much horsepower as the big block 454 in the past:/ 300 net hpfunny how things work out like that, but on the flip side it is possibile to rig up a vette motor to outdo the V12's of the daytona era, Zora did it with the grand sport and I think I know how.its a little known fact that the carbs on the V12's are actually 3 barrels and those cars literally had 1 barrel per engine cylinder:http://www.lambomiura.com/info/Engine/engine.htm and the grand sport had 4 webbers on it. along with probably solid lifters, improved hardened valves in the engine I believe if I'm getting the term correctly to alow the engine to provide that power at a higher rpm without damaging the engine given its overhead valve system (if I'm getting that right) which only allows for two valves per clyinder vs the ferrari's having 3, 4 or 5 in the case of the ferrari F355 with there overhead cam systemthe cam in a pushrod V8 is below the engine and uses pushrods to actuate them, while on the italian stuff its above the clyinders going down, allowing for the use of more than 2 at a higher RPM, atleast on the old pre 1985 stuff before fuel injection allowed for the 350 2 valve V8's to function at higher rpms with more power over time.and a 10 to 1 compression ratio with a bored out 327 (which was a motor that produced more torque than the 350, while the 350 was more balanced in the way of gas mileage)to 377 CImind you from what I understand the limit for the efficiency of the car is about 2 carbs because of how tightly packed in they are on the C3's which is why the grand sport had that gigantic hood on it:and produced 425 REAL horsepower for 1962 when the ferrari's and Lambo's were doing 350 vs the 220 to 250 of a small block and 280 to 320 of a big block with alot of low end torque at about 3K or 4K less RPM, 3k for a small, 4 for a big block.probably had some modified camshaft in there too I believe.plus metallurgy wasnt what it is now and they were still using lead to act as a shock absorber for the valves, hence why the valve seals had to be hardened to take unleaded gasoline back then in 1972 I believe along with lowering the compression ratio. I dont quite know what ferrari did to counter this in italy actually given the daytona was made between 68 - 73' right around the time of that switch.guess I'll have to make a trip to the ferrari forums about that.but potentally with a corvette you could actually make it faster and more powerful than the daytona with the use of even a race carbed V8 motor, hell even just using the original motor and suping it up I bet with dual 4 barrel carbs and hardened valves and valve seals along with a high performance cam shaft it could probably match it performance wise.so the use of a two valve per cylinder V8 in a daytona lookalike doesn't really bother me at all, even less so that it used one of thee ugliest years of the C3 vette, the 1980 - 82's which really stick out compaired to all of the other vettes which all look good in there respective ways and turned it into something beautiful:http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0072/index.htmlhttp://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0050/index.htmlhell I dont even like the convertibile conversions here:http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0042/index.htmlokay its not that bad but it definitely doesnt look as good as the 79's:http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/1979/1979a/index.htmlplus the C3 engines in those years werent painted red or blue like the other muscle cars in 1980, they ironically where painted black:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6965&stc=1&d=1350800301just like the daytona engine:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6964&stc=1&d=1350800298also the italian cars like the daytona had a 30 gallon tank for long distance driving while the vette had 18 until the 1980 redesign where it was given a 24 gallon tank which is what the daytona was designed for and is what grand turismo stands for. Grand touring, long distance trips in comfort with everything in the trunk. Which you couldnt do with the testarossa.and which is what the mcburnie rebodied cars added back onto the car that was taken off for the C3 by gm bizzarely, a TRUNK!along with the glove box but that was finally put back on by gm in 1977.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_UAxTIbwi8

the film gets going at about the 1:53 mark, he starts talking about the daytona at 16:32 and then gets going about the difference between it and the TR.pretty much explaining why they dumped the berlineta boxer/testarossa layout in favor of the 550 and the rest of cars that followed after that in 1995. which is why Aston, Ferrari and even Porsche with the panamerican have started making cars in that layout, porsche did try that layout basically with the 928 but it didnt go over well for a reason.people liked the 911 and didnt care for the 928 which when looking at it I can see why and that's probably going to happen with the panamerican as well, both kind of so - so cars looks wise, plus I think the 928 technically was a hatchback in a way.also I think the italians, namely ferrari probably paid closer attention to the weight of the engine parts than the americans which would probably lead to a smoother power band:http://www.lambomiura.com/rest17.htmthey were noted for making race engines and race cars for the street after all.

[Matt5]

Really nice

[Kavinsky]

Thanks, not quite done yet though lol.alot of thought has gone into this, that's for damn sure.

[Kavinsky]

Actually you can see on the daytona there its got 6 webber carbs, all two barrel ones and I believe they used dual 3 barrel's on the dino 6 cylinders (206 and 246 dino) and on the ferrari 308 they used two three barrels and one two barrel.all one barrel per cylinder, hence Tommy's remark about the carbs in One way ticket on the yellow daytona conversion, plus I would imagine it would probably provide better gas mileage to have it be in a gigantic pack of two down the engine where as the power goes on it gradually opens vs on a full on 4 barrel.actually I believe they did make a 6 barrel racing carb at one point, a single one, little know american one I think was mentioned in some interview with tom cruse on top gear a couple of years ago.and with a 454 producing 300 HP and about nearly as much foot pounds of torque it would be an apt powerplant for a daytona replica vs the real ones 352 HP, hell that was the funny thing about the grand sport C2 (which also apparently had dual spark plugs per cylinder system as well, maybe that's why they enlarged a 327 with I believe a thick cylinder walls) the guy who was behind making the project and cars as a rival of the cobra and the ferrari's (and it did beat the V12's on the straight away in its limited races back then before GM's anti fun divison of suits sunk it) Zora Arkus Duntov, A Belgian opted to not special order or attempt to rig up his last corvette while he was at GM in 1973/1974 with say a 327 which he probably could of swung and rigged up like the grand sporthe opted to get a blue convertible C3 Vette with the 454 because of its low end torque and that's not too far off the daytona's specs with a single carb and supposedly the 74's were the last year of the point ignition system and last year of the real proper dual exhaust.makes me wonder what the thing would be capable with two 4 barrel carbs and unlike the cobra the corvette wasn't a widow maker with a big block motor as long as its got the proper big block suspension or the custom job on Sonny Burnett's car that sounds like its got the kind of suspension the ferrari would have been rigged up with.And that's what I like about this thing, there's alot of potental for change with the thing over its usage and desired changes with it that the owner can do with it and potentally by themelves in there own freetime. plus its classic Jaguar E type style, its a simple grand turismo style car like the car its mimicking and there's also a duality to it.you could call it either a daytona replica with the badges on it or called it a rebodied vette and remove the ferrari badges like what appeared to be the case with the turn signals in the show:as it was the production crew that put the badges on it apparently for the pilot:along with the markadian markings it had back in 1981, and probably just put on a blanked out yellow badge on the nose and the markadian marking on it and call it a markadian custom corvette.and with the interior and exterior the insides are as changeable as the rest of the car based on the users desires really.

[Kavinsky]

Additonally I forgot to mention something else, with the older cars before 1973 they weren't rigged up for radial tires based on the makers preference for them.Ford Apparently was one of the few who did in the 1960's. which makes sense given they're history of making the first collapsible steering wheel and safety belts as standard in there cars in 1955, along with safer autoglass I think. They were also the creators of the catalytic converter and the kind of cars they were putting out probably really benefited from them.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncJVyu-JQhE

where as GM stupidly killed the grand sport. ford was gung ho for ferrari ass back then after he pulled out of the deal they had going where ford was going to buy ferrari. Just like what they did with Aston Martin and Jaguar in the 1980'sthat's what lead to the creation of the Ford GT40 and the tech that came from that trickled down into the road cars curtsey of Carol Shelby. Which trickled down into the mustangs as well given that well even the bosses thought it was a secretary car in 1964 before he gave it a serious dose of testosterone.which truth be told was my first impression of the mustang from that time period myself, the first ones, the 64 1/2's.Anyways outside of that most cars usually had what was called pollyglass or bias-plies tires and well that's the reason why on luxury cars like the Cadillac and some of the old Chryslers they rode better with non radial tiresas it produced less road shock and absorbs the bumps better at the price of handling and traction.and then when those cars had stiffer radial tires put on them that sometimes didnt agree with the suspension and its shot rubber bushings and worn bearings making the muscle cars when neglected mixed in with radial tries and live axel that has a hard time under hard cornering staying planted dangerous (hence the famous tail slide, slap or rather snap that you always seen in movies of that time period with muscle cars)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEGUpUGuDTQ&feature=relatedvs a suped up corvette (only reason she spun out at the beginning was to pull into a side street there, either that or it was caused by downshifting in a corner, which will spin out the car like that.)

made even worse by a stigma that americans had about disc brakes back then.and usually radial tires that were retrofitted werent the right size either as they discontinued the thin tires they had that the cars were made with a few years down the line. Forcing the owners who wanted to drive them to go with the wrong size tires that were usually too big for the cars designed suspension and tire geometry with the polyglass tires.With the Americans they thought the drums were better than the discs back then they are for an offroad application apparently given there durability and longevity, but onroad its a very different story. but I had a drum brake split and jam on me on a car once from a previous incident with the car where my brother ran the right rear tire of a disc/drum car into a large rock to avoid a colision, knocking the shock absorber loose and into the tire, ruining the tireand the shock absorber, he paid for it. What I didnt know was it apparently left a crack in the drum, which over time and wear and tear eventually broke the drum which I broke when I stamped on the brakes once a few years latter. thankfully it stopped the car but wouldnt release the drum because of the jammed piece so I had to coast the thing with maybe 5% brake power from the front discs home.and thankfully I was very close to home at that point, so I think even in that respect discs are whole heartedly better than drums, drums may be simpler but there not better in my opinion.and it was a distict ker plunt noise like what happened when you pulled the handbreak off on that car and incidentally after I got rid of it a few years ago on the way to pick it up the new car at the dealership someone with a car like my own car nearly ran into me because of a brake failure!so that's two drum cars that have had there brakes fail on them, both we me around them! so no way in hell will I ever buy another car with drums! anyways hence why even though they were an option on some cars like a 69 camaro with COPO (where they put the same discs from the front onto the rear) they were seldome ordered.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uKUQmDBGr8&feature=plcp

so you kind of had hell in a handbasket really with a big block car where you really had to be careful with the thing outside of a few specific examples like the mopars with the torsion bar suspensions:with Torsion

without probably on radial tires by then as NEW:

where as the vette had all around discs, independent rear suspension and could take radial tires without any real issues outside of the ride being rougher and not as forgiving, which for the 1973 model year GM adressed by adding extra rubber body mounts to the car and also the above reasons mixed in with the gas crysis that was jury rigged up by opec in the 1970's is why alot of the old muscle cars were sidelined, lost, rusted out and possibily scrapped unless the owner really liked it and did his best to take care of it.whichgiven the impression by the forced over change from gross to net hp in 1972 made people think the pre 1971 muscle cars were somehow more powerful and faster. you know going from 365 gross hp to 240 net/Real horsepoweralthough that fact basically saved alot of cars that probably would have ended up at the scrapped like alot of commuter and 80's cars now and now theres actually a company that makes bolt on suspension kits that can make that challenger handle as well as a modern one:

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/muscle-cars/1970-hotchkis-dodge-challenger-340-ta/index.shtmlbasically all they do is tighten up the suspension, remove all of that play and rig them up for modern radial tires and disc brakes.and that was the noted difference between the american cars and the euro cars, the euro cars given the use of autobahn and autostrada at 120 + for regular trips could never afford to screw around with a loose live axel and discs in the front only. and that was the way it was until about 20 years agoAmerican cars were generally loose and squirly at high speed, euro cars were tight and precise. hence why the only car that was regarded as something that could compete with them was the vette really back then with its all around independent suspension and disc brakes and would of if GM had let Zora off of the leash once in awhile.and they do it for other cars too, just not the vette weirdly, guess they figure its good enough but still, if it can do that for an old one that didnt survive the muscle car era, what about the one that was good enough to? how would that one drive like?unless it was a big block ford like the one used in starskys car in 74' that lost damn near 50 horsepower from smog restrictions and detuning for better gas mileage, forcing them to change the gearing to make the thing perform like it did in the show as they werent allowed to mess with the engine under california lawto the point where if it reached 50 mph the gearing would cause the engine to run at such a high RPM that the motor would blow, and it did on the small block hence this scene in one of the episodes with the small block one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f5iAq3mT5w&feature=plcpand them putting a plate on the dashboard in the show that said do not take this car above 50 MPHand that is also why markadian opted to put a turbo on the vice car in 81 to boost the horsepower, that was the only way he could do that legally in california.and sometime during S1 the car had a valve blown and the engine block replaced because of that possibily because of the overrevving that put on the engine (as turbos back then kicked in at about 3500 rpm, 500 over a small blocks limit) or Don overreved the thing over the red line of 3 grand with a small block.either that or the guy before him, hard to say really but it did sound sickly at the beginning of the Glades montage:

and that is car 4