My plans for my Daytona replica

[Sonny-Burnett]

but still I did think there was more than just 30 per maker basically' date=' hmph no wonder its so hard to find a mcburnie grill then.[/quote']I'm still stunned after what JN told me, that fewer than 25 McBurnies were built. :cool:Am now wondering how many are actually still in operation as of today. Before a couple days ago I was under the false impression that there were many many more out there on the road.

[jurassic narc]

I'm still stunned after what JN told me' date=' that fewer than 25 McBurnies were built. :cool:Am now wondering how many are actually still in operation as of today. Before a couple days ago I was under the false impression that there were many many more out there on the road.[/quote']No body really can give you an accurate count. California Coachcraft built under license to McBurnie, and I have been told that McBurnie had people across the country who did build his bodies for sale. But the common thing I heard from Carl and CameraDaytona heard from McBurnie is that they actually produced a lot less cars that we all thought. The issue was, you were buying a used Corvette that you could get about anywhere for less than $15,000. But once the body was changed out, the interior re-done and the upgrades made to the car the base price was in the $50,000 range turn-key. So, you had to be in the high income range to do that. And if you could afford that, why not buy a real Ferrari 308GTB or S for a little less. So it was very much a niche market.Few of the kits were completed by individuals, and based on what I have learned that is because the build is not easy (inspite of what Popular Mechanics has written). The removal of the body and swapping out the electronics, the mechanicals and the fuel system alone are a huge undertaking. I have collected data on about 40 of various manufacture that have been listed for sale on the internet. I have started to see the same cars more than once, which makes me think that those may be some of the better ones left around.

[jurassic narc]

I'm still stunned after what JN told me' date=' that fewer than 25 McBurnies were built. :cool:Am now wondering how many are actually still in operation as of today. Before a couple days ago I was under the false impression that there were many many more out there on the road.[/quote']When CameraDaytona checks in he may be able to give a more accurate estimate on this. He spent some time with McBurnie. My recollection on this is from a conversation he and I had with Carl Roberts on our last visit. I know that we talked about the issue and we determined that overall between 100 to 150 cars by all involved was considered a very HIGH estimate.JN

[jurassic narc]

I'm still stunned after what JN told me' date=' that fewer than 25 McBurnies were built. :cool:Am now wondering how many are actually still in operation as of today. Before a couple days ago I was under the false impression that there were many many more out there on the road.[/quote']One other thing. McBurnie and Rowley each had a unique ID plate they affixed to their cars, but I have no idea if there was a sequential number. And I don't know if McBurnie was putting his name on cars built at other shops under his authority.JN

[Sonny-Burnett]

No body really can give you an accurate count. California Coachcraft built under license to McBurnie' date=' and I have been told that McBurnie had people across the country who did build his bodies for sale. But the common thing I heard from Carl and CameraDaytona heard from McBurnie is that they actually produced a lot less cars that we all thought. The issue was, you were buying a used Corvette that you could get about anywhere for less than $15,000. But once the body was changed out, the interior re-done and the upgrades made to the car the base price was in the $50,000 range turn-key. So, you had to be in the high income range to do that. And if you could afford that, why not buy a real Ferrari 308GTB or S for a little less. So it was very much a niche market.Few of the kits were completed by individuals, and based on what I have learned that is because the build is not easy (inspite of what Popular Mechanics has written). The removal of the body and swapping out the electronics, the mechanicals and the fuel system alone are a huge undertaking. I have collected data on about 40 of various manufacture that have been listed for sale on the internet. I have started to see the same cars more than once, which makes me think that those may be some of the better ones left around.[/quote']I'm really glad you and Camera have taken the time to do this research and talk with these kitmakers. I have been at this only since 2010. A couple comments...my paperwork and contract is with McBurnie Coachcraft, at Santee California, and is countersigned by Robert Pearl of McBurnie Coachcraft to build a "California Daytona Spyder". So wondering if California Coachcraft you are referencing is a different entity? Also here is an excerpt from a document I have called "Why Buy a McBurnie Kit?" :" ...My last two-piece body design produced 46 cars and almost 150 kits from my shop. It also produced competition; Exotic Coachcraft used a MCB kit to produce their mold. Carl Roberts used one of my cars for his mold. Bob Jaramsek used a MCB kit for his. and Cecil Gold of California Custom Coach used one. Vancouver Daytona (whoever they are) used one of my kits. There are probably more ....but the point is: they copied a 4-year-old design, each subtracting something from my original design, in their futile attempt as plaguerists to be unique. " He goes on to talk about the one piece design made in 1986 that was unique in this 7 page document, as well as details of his design, what the car was modeled after (fender flares being modeled after Paul Newman's competition Ferrari 365GTB/4 race car) and other details of how the car was designed (no photos in this doc though)But does seem to make the case that he made at least 46 cars as of this date and sold 150 kits as well. The document is undated. I did read in another doc in here that it is extremely difficult for the average mechanic to build one of his kits and he strongly discourages it. Certainly a niche market fueled by the immense success of Miami Vice though I don't know what the genuine 365s were selling for at that time.

[Sonny-Burnett]

One other thing. McBurnie and Rowley each had a unique ID plate they affixed to their cars' date=' but I have no idea if there was a sequential number. And I don't know if McBurnie was putting his name on cars built at other shops under his authority.JN[/quote']This ID plate you are referring to. Do you know where it is? I do have this imprinted under the front of my hood[ATTACH=CONFIG]5904[/ATTACH]

[Kavinsky]

I'm really glad you and Camera have taken the time to do this research and talk with these kitmakers. I have been at this only since 2010. A couple comments...my paperwork and contract is with McBurnie Coachcraft' date=' at Santee California, and is countersigned by Robert Pearl of McBurnie Coachcraft to build a "California Daytona Spyder". So wondering if California Coachcraft you are referencing is a different entity? Also here is an excerpt from a document I have called "Why Buy a McBurnie Kit?" :" ...My last two-piece body design produced 46 cars and almost 150 kits from my shop. It also produced competition; Exotic Coachcraft used a MCB kit to produce their mold. Carl Roberts used one of my cars for his mold. Bob Jaramsek used a MCB kit for his. and Cecil Gold of California Custom Coach used one. Vancouver Daytona (whoever they are) used one of my kits. There are probably more ....but the point is: they copied a 4-year-old design, each subtracting something from my original design, in their futile attempt as plaguerists to be unique. " He goes on to talk about the one piece design made in 1986 that was unique in this 7 page document, as well as details of his design, what the car was modeled after (fender flares being modeled after Paul Newman's competition Ferrari 365GTB/4 race car) and other details of how the car was designed (no photos in this doc though)But does seem to make the case that he made at least 46 cars as of this date and sold 150 kits as well. The document is undated. I did read in another doc in here that it is extremely difficult for the average mechanic to build one of his kits and he strongly discourages it. Certainly a niche market fueled by the immense success of Miami Vice though I don't know what the genuine 365s were selling for at that time.[/quote']like Crockett said in Irish Eyes, that psycho just blew up a 150,000 worth of my automobile the coupes were going for about that much along with conversions like the yellow one that was parked next to the daytona in one of the epiosdes but I had read somewhere that they were sometimes going for as much as 350K for the legit spyders and thats 1980's dollars.although the funny thing is thats not to far off of the actual price for a legit coupe nowadays I think.and the thing about the 308 is though that was another full 20 grand, 70 grand for a 308 and the testarossa was 90K back thenso its still an extra 20 grand plus the 308's mechanicals and small CI (3 liter V8 vs 5.7) vs a vette.and hell if a vette equiped with a 454 (a 7 liter!) could give the 1990's ZR1 a run for its money and produced more torque at a lower RMP it would probably blow the doors off of a 308 in the acceleration department and the top speed with the 350 is not too far off from the 308's top sped either, 133 mph vs 160 with a stock setup.

[jurassic narc]

I'm really glad you and Camera have taken the time to do this research and talk with these kitmakers. I have been at this only since 2010. A couple comments...my paperwork and contract is with McBurnie Coachcraft' date=' at Santee California, and is countersigned by Robert Pearl of McBurnie Coachcraft to build a "California Daytona Spyder". So wondering if California Coachcraft you are referencing is a different entity? Also here is an excerpt from a document I have called "Why Buy a McBurnie Kit?" :" ...My last two-piece body design produced 46 cars and almost 150 kits from my shop. It also produced competition; Exotic Coachcraft used a MCB kit to produce their mold. Carl Roberts used one of my cars for his mold. Bob Jaramsek used a MCB kit for his. and Cecil Gold of California Custom Coach used one. Vancouver Daytona (whoever they are) used one of my kits. There are probably more ....but the point is: they copied a 4-year-old design, each subtracting something from my original design, in their futile attempt as plaguerists to be unique. " He goes on to talk about the one piece design made in 1986 that was unique in this 7 page document, as well as details of his design, what the car was modeled after (fender flares being modeled after Paul Newman's competition Ferrari 365GTB/4 race car) and other details of how the car was designed (no photos in this doc though)But does seem to make the case that he made at least 46 cars as of this date and sold 150 kits as well. The document is undated. I did read in another doc in here that it is extremely difficult for the average mechanic to build one of his kits and he strongly discourages it. Certainly a niche market fueled by the immense success of Miami Vice though I don't know what the genuine 365s were selling for at that time.[/quote']And there is really no way to know what number is acurate. If the low number came during the Ferrari trial, and the high number was for advertisment, that would make sense. He often points out that all his records were burned and he can't give a number.But the names he mentions all ring a bell as the companies that produced cars across the country.The label would be on the door frame. The logo under the hood and on the rocker panel just means the car is from a McBurnie kit. THe ones built by McBurnie for sale had to have the special California emmissions sticker and the Branding Label.

[Sonny-Burnett]

And there is really no way to know what number is acurate. If the low number came during the Ferrari trial' date=' and the high number was for advertisment, that would make sense. He often points out that all his records were burned and he can't give a number.But the names he mentions all ring a bell as the companies that produced cars across the country.The label would be on the door frame. The logo under the hood and on the rocker panel just means the car is from a McBurnie kit. THe ones built by McBurnie for sale had to have the special California emmissions sticker and the Branding Label.[/quote']Good point as the comments in the sales literature may or may not be totally accurate and may be meant to boost sales. No MCB label on the door frame. Perhaps he didn't install these on later cars or only when MCB supplied the donor Vette and placed it for sale on his lot. My 1981 donor car was supplied by the original owner as this is stated on the purchase contract. And it seems he contracted directly with Auto Design Mfg Inc for the interior work or at least McBurnie made him contract directly with them. But all my invoices, agreements for additional options, and the purchase contract are with McBurnie Coachcraft at the California address so I do know they built the car, and not some other kit maker.

[jurassic narc]

Good point as the comments in the sales literature may or may not be totally accurate and may be meant to boost sales. No MCB label on the door frame. Perhaps he didn't install these on later cars or only when MCB supplied the donor Vette and placed it for sale on his lot. My 1981 donor car was supplied by the original owner as this is stated on the purchase contract. And it seems he contracted directly with Auto Design Mfg Inc for the interior work or at least McBurnie made him contract directly with them. But all my invoices' date=' agreements for additional options, and the purchase contract are with McBurnie Coachcraft at the California address so I do know they built the car, and not some other kit maker.[/quote']Was the buyer a California resident? That may be why the car had to be labeled and have the California emmissions certification on the door opening.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Was the buyer a California resident? That may be why the car had to be labeled and have the California emmissions certification on the door opening.

Not really sure about the criteria for issuing the MCB label. I do know the engine was loaded with emissions crap, no doubt courtesy of the insane California emissions laws, that I am now in the process of removing to improve the performance. Well the purchase contract was signed in December 1987 and at that date the buyer was a CA resident. But a letter dated May 1988 to the buyer indicating a final payment was made and McBurnie apologizing for delays in construction indicated the buyer was now living in Nevada. And the invoice from Auto Design Mfg for the interior work indicates it was billed and paid on the same date in May. Btw, the purchase contract indicates it normally takes 60-90 days for the completion of the Daytona so this was seriously late in delivery.

[Kavinsky]

Not really sure about the criteria for issuing the MCB label. I do know the engine was loaded with emissions crap' date=' no doubt courtesy of the insane California emissions laws, that I am now in the process of removing to improve the performance. Well the purchase contract was signed in December 1987 and at that date the buyer was a CA resident. But a letter dated May 1988 to the buyer indicating a final payment was made and McBurnie apologizing for delays in construction indicated the buyer was now living in Nevada. And the invoice from Auto Design Mfg for the interior work indicates it was billed and paid on the same date in May. Btw, the purchase contract indicates it normally takes 60-90 days for the completion of the Daytona so this was seriously late in delivery.[/quote']well knowing california they probably did all they could to hold it up and if I remember correctly lamborghini back then with the handbuilt countachs said they got out 3 a week with a crew of people working on it so they may have been tied up with the CA stuff plus if the guy moved he might have asked them to hold off on delivery till he was settled in his new place of residenceon the plus side though that means it wasnt a rush job and it probably allowed them to iron out the issues before delivery plus it probably gave ample time for the paint to cure as well as that can take up to a full 6 months before its a 100% dry.

[Sonny-Burnett]

well knowing california they probably did all they could to hold it up and if I remember correctly lamborghini back then with the handbuilt countachs said they got out 3 a week with a crew of people working on it so they may have been tied up with the CA stuff plus if the guy moved he might have asked them to hold off on delivery till he was settled in his new place of residenceon the plus side though that means it wasnt a rush job and it probably allowed them to iron out the issues before delivery plus it probably gave ample time for the paint to cure as well as that can take up to a full 6 months before its a 100% dry.

Or perhaps the buyer delayed the car delivery intentionally to avoid CA sales tax.

[Kavinsky]

Or perhaps the buyer delayed the car delivery intentionally to avoid CA sales tax.

that too, and I think thats a yearly thing you'd have to pay if the car is new for about 10 years so its a conserable sum of money

[jurassic narc]

Not really sure about the criteria for issuing the MCB label. I do know the engine was loaded with emissions crap' date=' no doubt courtesy of the insane California emissions laws, that I am now in the process of removing to improve the performance. Well the purchase contract was signed in December 1987 and at that date the buyer was a CA resident. But a letter dated May 1988 to the buyer indicating a final payment was made and McBurnie apologizing for delays in construction indicated the buyer was now living in Nevada. And the invoice from Auto Design Mfg for the interior work indicates it was billed and paid on the same date in May. Btw, the purchase contract indicates it normally takes 60-90 days for the completion of the Daytona so this was seriously late in delivery.[/quote']That is a common complaint from people who ordered from McBurnie and Roberts. These cars were not easy to build, and you had to find a used car that would work, etc. Several people threatened litigation because they made down payments and the cars were delayed again and again. That is just one more thing that makes me question just how many cars were completed. Some of the cars wee in process for six months or more.ANd, as I have said, this was not a job for a "shade tree" mechanic. A veteran auto body specialist with lots of fiberglass experience was needed. Even then the finished car could require many hours to get ready to accept the body. That's how Carl got involved with McBurnie--Carl was known for his skill with Vette bodys. BUt I gather that body men with a knack for fiberglass were not common, at least at that time.

[Sonny-Burnett]

That is a common complaint from people who ordered from McBurnie and Roberts. These cars were not easy to build' date=' and you had to find a used car that would work, etc. Several people threatened litigation because they made down payments and the cars were delayed again and again. That is just one more thing that makes me question just how many cars were completed. Some of the cars wee in process for six months or more.ANd, as I have said, this was not a job for a "shade tree" mechanic. A veteran auto body specialist with lots of fiberglass experience was needed. Even then the finished car could require many hours to get ready to accept the body. That's how Carl got involved with McBurnie--Carl was known for his skill with Vette bodys. BUt I gather that body men with a knack for fiberglass were not common, at least at that time.[/quote']Interesting perspective on this and on how MCB operated in those days. I did think 5 months was a bit excessive for building the Daytona. And there was so much customization involved there must have been a need for skilled body guys and interior guys as well. I really need to locate a skilled interior guy around here that can handle a major renovation including the dash, seats, door panels, center console and all the wiring related to the dash exchange. Seems like they are on the West Coast more than anywhere.As to quantity built I guess I defer back to your research on this. Though I'd like to have had one of those MCB door plates I'm still not sure what criteria he used in determining which get one.

[Sonny-Burnett]

When CameraDaytona checks in he may be able to give a more accurate estimate on this. He spent some time with McBurnie. My recollection on this is from a conversation he and I had with Carl Roberts on our last visit. I know that we talked about the issue and we determined that overall between 100 to 150 cars by all involved was considered a very HIGH estimate.JN

Wondering if you have heard from CameraDaytona on this?

[Youngman]

McBurnie IDMine is riveted to the inside of the drivers side door.Bob[ATTACH=CONFIG]6111[/ATTACH]

[jurassic narc]

Mine is riveted to the inside of the drivers side door.Bob[ATTACH=CONFIG]6111[/ATTACH]

Is it below the manual trunk release?

[Youngman]

LOATION OF PLATENo the trunk release is behind it on the hump of the wheel well will get a picture of it ... posted some other pictures on the Daytona thread

Is it below the manual trunk release?

[Kavinsky]

No the trunk release is behind it on the hump of the wheel well will get a picture of it ... posted some other pictures on the Daytona thread

so its in the trunk behind where the wheel is on one of the sides then? or do you mean by the spare tire?

[Sonny-Burnett]

so its in the trunk behind where the wheel is on one of the sides then? or do you mean by the spare tire?

Likely it is in the same place as mine, and it is on the forward panel of the deck behind the driver's seat that runs over the wheel well. It is accessible between the driver's seat and the driver's door. Maybe a picture would help if I can shoot one.

[Youngman]

plate on McBurnieIt is on the hump

[jurassic narc]

It is on the hump

Interesting. On the earliest cars the trunk release was right above where your data plate is located. But that looks just like the manual release that McBurnie used in all his cars (that I have seen). Roberts cars all seem to have electronic releases, but either car could have used either release with a little work.

[Youngman]

SPARE TIRE?In the previous responses someone mentioned a spare tire? Where would that be I do not even see where one could fit.Bob