The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[Kavinsky]

Also on the back end of the car, you need to readd the tag light at 0:15

 

 

 

 

 

its a legit ferrari piece as well and the radio anttena, both had them on the left behind the tank.

 

 

and the floor is black on the car, and it has what looks like a chrome kicker pannel if you look close here

 

 

Not sure if you want to replicate that T/A shift knob here that kind of looks like its the same as it was on that 400 GT.

 

 

 

sorry if this is overwelming but I am noticing alot of little details that were in the show but are not there anymore, I think this more or less does it for most of the car save for the tires, grill and the nose cover

 

and possibly the size of the rims on the back, as the tires have been changed on it for speed zone, without a doubt.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Kavinsky]

okay for the final bits the grill was the vice square grill there, and it was replaced with the rowley unit for speed zone which is now missing,

 

 

Pre Vice, S1, S2

 

 

Post in speed zone

 

 

and the front end seems pretty banged up, like this is the one they slammed down the steps in that movie, of which given the bumper damage is probably correct

 

 

 

so the front end is going to need to be straightened out and redone abit bodywork wise, namely remove the circles someone cut in there for whatever reason

 

 

 

 

the Plexy looks like it was switched since it left vice, during the pilot car 4 had a smoked plexyglass piece and a light amplifier infront of it, past the pilot they removed the plexy and used car 1 as is with the see through plexy

 

in S2 both cars had a smoked plexyglass piece put on,

 

 

Car 4, note the grill

 

 

Car 1 the note grill

 

but the thing was the plexy was warping because of a lack of support in the nose area apparently, as carl roberts created some sort of clip on the edge of the nose that helped put pressure on this part

 

 

 

and in Speed zone well that was removed and the headlamps were switched over to the circular units seen on the blue car above, possibily the left overs from when Car 1 had circular headlamps in the first place after the conversion

 

and as for the reason why Car 4 had the smoked plexy in the pilot and then had it removed may have been two fold, to make it more like Car 1 and so you can drive at night without the highs on, as once they put the smoked plexy back on in early S2 it dimed the lights to a considerable amount

 

 

 

and Don Countered this by running with the Highs on latter in the season, and Jurrasic put High Intensity Headlamps on his

 

and past this the smoked plexy was removed from both cars, either for legal reasons

 

 

as its illegal to drive without a rear view mirror like crockett did

 

and thus maybe there was some law stating that you cant put anything over it, I mean you see how stingy some states are about window tinting, even if its to a really small amount

 

and it was just too much of a hassle to deal with this so carl took it off before selling it to car 4's previous owner

 

or it warped again and it was too much of a hassle to make a smoked one again.

 

 

 

Tirewise the car should be fitted with 235's all round, Pirelli's with a speed rating of VR15's, however in the show they gave them abit too much sidewall, possibly to counter the forces of the camera rig

 

 

using 60 sidewall profile tires, as standard profile tires of modern cars would probably blow out under pressure as Harry Metcalf denotes here at the 27:00 mark

 

 

and the testarossa is using a 50 profile tire

 

and the reason for them doing that is back in the 1980's and 1990's they found that by having wide and high tires like that would cause not enough weight to go to the wheels, namely in the rain, and thus make the car more likely to hydroplane

 

its kind of like what they found here with this C4 as it got lighter

 

 

the whole unintended concequences of the thing, you effect one bit in the system that is a car, you have to counter it another way depending on the severety of the changes. 

 

so I would recommend from a looks standpoint 50% tire profile for the side wall, and it had those 235 all around, and I must wonder if the rims in the rear were changed to take those larger C4 tires it has on it now.

 

and use a round profile tire, no square ones as they ruin the look of any car their put on

 

 

 

 

So my best advice would be with this car, start with the door panels and the interior, as your car has the original door panels, so that and the shocks are really the only tell tale signs that your car is car 1

 

hell I dont even know if that steering wheel was on it in speed zone, but those three, the steering column, the front shocks and the door panels would be the sacred parts of the car really.

 

as everything else has been changed so much, well that and the zenith wire wheel caps, the yellow ones/spinners, so that makes four really.

 

also car 1 may have been repainted twice, once in S1 after the show was picked up and again for S2, as it looks a touch chipped and rough in the hitlist in certain areas

 

 

 

much like this car

 

 

and with what they did to it in whatever works, leaving it at the breaker yard like that,  might have been a reason to do so, much like someone destroying the paint on inspector morse's car in one of the episodes.

 

as it was probably just an excuse to repaint it, and also the car was using laquer paint back then, which is easier to work with and repair I think.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Kavinsky

[volobrian]

Thanks Kavinsky for all your detective work!  I'm sure I won't get it back to exact, but going for as close as I can!

[Kavinsky]

Yeah its alot of work there, and your welcome lol

 

also two things occured to me today, the tail lights, she ran with the yellows on as the running lights for whatever reason, as I dont know why but I literally just remembered that following someone home today, like it was hard to see the brake lights on the car infront of me, one of these where the entire thing was red and the light itself was like 2 inches, and for whatever reason I remembered the oversized ones on the daytona and how the runners were yellow.

 

and it poped into my head like hey wait a minute, wasnt she running with the yellows on?

 

I'm not sure if it was by accident, as the sockets of the corvette lights didnt fit into the ferrari units and when they relinked them up they changed them, or for whatever reason, as Carl had to change the sockets from corvette to the Carnello ones in Mid S1

 

as the vette ones use a single prong to lock in, in the middle, while the ferrari ones use a 3 prong that locks on the outside of the lights

 

 

and that shock change to the front end, I dont remember it being that high in that photo of car 1 after she was completed, and in one episode, no one lives forever they ran the car onto the beach and it was blatently car 1 in that entire scene, so the change to the ride height might have been intentional for scenes like that.

 

plus she might have been the car that was run down the steps in Speed Zone, hence why it was never changed over and she still has them, as they did take the cars offroading in that movie breifly in the desert scene.

 

for all I know he purposely put big block shocks in for that effect.

 

but basically that should give you the jist of how to get her as close as possible as you can without breaking the budget.

 

 

Tires, exhaust, the stock gas tank are the big ones that come to mind, as to refabricating the doors I have no idea how to do that lol but the burlwood console however

 

the show wheeler dealers had an episode on a Jag where they did that kind of work, and I think any cabnet maker can do that with some sort of a vacume machine thing to form it over the insturments.

 

the show itself is a good show anyways, one of the few shows that has stayed true to itself in many years and its worth watching to learn what you can, if you look it up

 

it was a blue Jag, the XJS one from the 1970's, actually they had one in speed zone as well actually.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Kavinsky

[jurassic narc]

 

also two things occured to me today, the tail lights, she ran with the yellows on as the running lights for whatever reason, as I dont know why but I literally just remembered that following someone home today, like it was hard to see the brake lights on the car infront of me, one of these where the entire thing was red and the light itself was like 2 inches, and for whatever reason I remembered the oversized ones on the daytona and how the runners were yellow.

 

and it poped into my head like hey wait a minute, wasnt she running with the yellows on?

 

I'm not sure if it was by accident, as the sockets of the corvette lights didnt fit into the ferrari units and when they relinked them up they changed them, or for whatever reason, as Carl had to change the sockets from corvette to the Carnello ones in Mid S1

 

as the vette ones use a single prong to lock in, in the middle, while the ferrari ones use a 3 prong that locks on the outside of the lights

 

European cars were using the amber lights for many years to distinguish between the brake and signal/marker lights.  For whatever reason the cars were presented as Euro cars.  Might be because of the headlight situation (which was only on Euro cars).  But the real Daytona used in the pilot was obviously an American model.  The tail lights were Ferrari, and the Corvette sockets didn't fit in them.  The Ferrari plugs were a single notch, the Corvette were two or three depending on the outlet.  The tail light units were Carello, and accurate to the cars of the period.  American cars came with 4 red, and Euro cars were 2 red and two amber.  The fix is actually simple, as the wiring is exactly the same.

[jurassic narc]

As to the Plexiglas and interior mirror; most states have laws against anything that is used to diminish the ability of the head or tail lights.  But since the cars are generally one-offs (not sold by a dealer) the law is more fluid.  I have never been challenged about the cover over the front lights in Georgia, Florida or Tennessee. The interior mirror is removed on most movie or TV cars, at least back in the day, to avoid issues when filming the actors from the front of the car.  Often you see the attachment point still on the windshield, but no mirror.

[Kavinsky]

European cars were using the amber lights for many years to distinguish between the brake and signal/marker lights.  For whatever reason the cars were presented as Euro cars.  Might be because of the headlight situation (which was only on Euro cars).  But the real Daytona used in the pilot was obviously an American model.  The tail lights were Ferrari, and the Corvette sockets didn't fit in them.  The Ferrari plugs were a single notch, the Corvette were two or three depending on the outlet.  The tail light units were Carello, and accurate to the cars of the period.  American cars came with 4 red, and Euro cars were 2 red and two amber.  The fix is actually simple, as the wiring is exactly the same.

 

what about the turn signal lenses in the front however, as I've seen two used, solid amber and white with amber, some on the plexy cars, some not

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/breizhell/9946625265/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45122395@N07/8587289851/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817@N07/12233657484/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paddyspig/16123249806/

 

and does that mean that in Europe, on a daytona the yellow ambers were used as the regular running lights in place of the reds? much like say the headlamp situation in france, where for years they used yellow headlights, and american cars were sometimes converted over if they were delivered there.

 

such as a story i read on one of the rare 7 71' Hemi Cuda's being over there of all place, complete with those headlamps.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Kavinsky

[jurassic narc]

what about the turn signal lenses in the front however, as I've seen two used, solid amber and white with amber, some on the plexy cars, some not

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/breizhell/9946625265/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45122395@N07/8587289851/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817@N07/12233657484/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paddyspig/16123249806/

 

and does that mean that in Europe, on a daytona the yellow ambers were used as the regular running lights in place of the reds? much like say the headlamp situation in france, where for years they used yellow headlights, and american cars were sometimes converted over if they were delivered there.

 

such as a story i read on one of the rare 7 71' Hemi Cuda's being over there of all place, complete with those headlamps.

Actually, for some reason I don't understand, the American Daytonas had the clear blocks for the turn signals (maybe with amber bulbs?).  Yes, the running lights are amber, and the rear side markers were only on American cars (red markers).  I guess the American cars were all red to the rear, with amber only in the front.  Probably some Federal Government program to standardize something that didn't need standardizing.  Red or amber lights to the front of you, you are following a car.  Bright white lights you are meeting a car.  What else do you need?

The real Daytona used in the pilot had the high rear side marker light, and it had the full amber front lense (best I can tell) SO I know Ferrari delivered them in all kinds of ways.  Most of the European cars had the Amber light on the inside and the red light on the outside, according to a book I have on the Ferrari V12s.  But on the page that says that there is a picture of a car with the Amber lights on the outside and the Red lights on the inside just like the Vice Car.

Edited May 26, 2015 by jurassic narc

[Kavinsky]

yeah they would make up things at the drop of the hat apparently rule wise at the DOT, that whole better safe than sorry mentality that is so poisionus as mentions of that showed up on the video here about the maserati and the Citroen

 

at 5:40

 

kind of reminds me of the stories that people had with dealing with Immigration in Canada, like sometimes it would be real easy to cross, othertimes a nightmare to get back, just based on the person you were dealing with

 

although what got me about the daytona in the pilot is the mirrors, I've never seen a Daytona Spider with those painted mirrors after looking at all of those over the years, as even the mel blanc one didnt have that, and they were mounted back behind the vent windows, not ahead like the stock chrome ones.

 

and painted body color too.

[Brian W]

I've been off this forum for a while...sadly my car has been in storage for 4 months (long story, moved from Dallas to San Antonio) but hope to have it back soon.  I'm sure this is the totally wrong place for this, but is anybody talking about this music video?  It's the Daytona replica from the Dezer collection in Miami and the house from the Bruce Willis episode.  Pretty cool to be using the cars in something that just came out this summer...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKbR7u8J5PU

 

- Brian W

[volobrian]

Looks like Dezer got it running!  I helped Dezer get that car, it was part of one of the big movie car purchases he made, it was just a body and a rolling chassis.  Got the paint and interior done but he wasn't too concearned about the mechanics since it was going to sit.  I am not sure whose body it was, it was not a McBurnie.  Flares were too small and the tops of the doors were much wider. 

[Kavinsky]

Yeah its a C4 model, could be a mcburnie as they did make some C4 varriants

 

http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0049/index.html

 

as they occasionally show up on ebay.

 

also Volo Brian with the mirrors it turns out that in helping CT with his build thread we, him really, might have found out that the mirrors, the electric ones on the daytona may have been some sort of special order electric version of the baby tornados, possibly ment for an Alfa Romeo GTV-6

 

http://miamiviceonline.com/index.php/topic/12265-mcburnie-build/page-2

 

mirror.dvautoparts.com/discount-store/alfa-romeo-gtv-6-vitaloni-right-side-power-mirror-door-alfetta-sprint-gtv6-w-miiqmqlolplr

 

the famous one that everyone always clangs on and on about with its motor and engine designer, the same one used in the embarrassingly named Octopussy Movie.

 

 

of which I dont think I've ever seen the whole way through despite bond switching to a P5 in it. a toy I'm quite interested in given my love of the brand.

 

so I'm not sure if car 1 had them though or if it was just the straight baby ones, as we never got a solid shot of the center console on it like we did car 4, plus if it was that car, then they used either the chrome knob controls of the electric turbo/full size tornado ones, as it looks like the GTV6 has some basic plastic switches on it, of which its hard to identify without seeing the car in person where the switches are.

 

and I dont know why but I think that alfa from that movie is in a museum somewhere, possibly yours hence why I bring it up.

 

also it shows the value of sometimes not going with your gut and sticking to your set information on something like that, as sometimes you never know once someone investigates further.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Kavinsky

[volobrian]

The Dezer car was built off of a 68 Corvette.  I am thinking the #1 car just had non-electric mirrors.  I don't see why they would be removed and replaced with non electric.  There are no signs on the car, left-over wires, different screw holes for mirror mounting etc..

[Sonny-Burnett]

I didn't think electric mirrors were used on the show cars because when you watch various eps you can see the mirrors are frequently askew, likely because the ball joints that hold them in place get hot in the Florida sun and the mirrors tend to move. In my car during hot summer months the non-electric Baby Tornado mirrors would droop after some time until I found a version of Loctite to hold them in place.

But I also recall a few close-ups of the mirrors (think was No Exit) where the mirrors look like the larger Tornados, rather than Baby Tornados. 

[Kavinsky]

yeah who knows, 30 years of time and all we've really got to go off of with the electric thing is the view of the knobs in Tales Of the Goat that are from the electric controls of the mirrors on Car 4, and a bunch of visual photos and videos that are cropped for our TV's and Computers

 

with them being askew I always thought it could have been so that the cameras didnt show up in the reflection of the mirrors, or so they didnt block them, as I remember that in a particular shot in the pilot it looked like the camera was mounted right where the mirrors must have been, as it was a far left angle right behind the windshield

[Sonny-Burnett]

yeah who knows, 30 years of time and all we've really got to go off of with the electric thing is the view of the knobs in Tales Of the Goat that are from the electric controls of the mirrors on Car 4, and a bunch of visual photos and videos that are cropped for our TV's and Computers

 

with them being askew I always thought it could have been so that the cameras didnt show up in the reflection of the mirrors, or so they didnt block them, as I remember that in a particular shot in the pilot it looked like the camera was mounted right where the mirrors must have been, as it was a far left angle right behind the windshield

 

I'm not sure on the electric mirrors but I would think that electric ones likely would be less prone to droop due to heat in the ball joints, as they probably have a stop mechanism of some sort.

Might be related to reflection or mounts, but I can tell you that when driving my Daytona in the heat my mirrors would push backwards in the wind at faster speeds, and would even droop when the heat was excessive. So I was sometimes forced to angle the mirrors backward to reduce drag, and I saw the mirrors on the show cars in exactly the same position so I assumed it was the same problem I was having with heat.

But I used some special Loctite to tighten up the mirrors and they generally stay in place now. But in SoFL the heat is more intensive.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Sonny-Burnett

[Kavinsky]

Hmm I guess the only way to know for sure would be to ask Don, Carl or PMT, if they even remember that detail, or that car prop master that someone had a card from in one of the other threads, but thats even more of a long shot.

[Kavinsky]

Given the nature of the daytona, and it being a classic car after seeing these videos they could really apply to anyone whos just got theirs or has just started working on it

 

 

How to sort it out, and the time period it will take, from someone who regularly reviews and videotapes project cars for the /Drive Channel

 

 

vs how to make it feel like it has more power without directly messing with the engine, a key point that is often overlooked, plus with what he says about the chasis there, you can really see why most of the focus in the restomodding world has been with bracing

 

where you need to brace the front to reduce oversteer as it keeps the front glued to the ground better, and vice versa both ways.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Kavinsky]

Do you guys remember those weird cicular holes that were on the Volo Car that I thought were for something like the Skidplate, given how unseamly they seemed. maybe they were part of some sort of system like this?

 

27:25

 

like some sort of radiator/intercooler system that someone put in for a turbo

 

 

although had it been there the whole time then?, was it pre vice, post vice or what not?

Edited September 29, 2015 by Kavinsky

[volobrian]

This was earlier in the thread from Jurassic Narc's post

 

"According to Kit Car magazine, the original Miami Vice car built by McBurnie was black with a single BAE turbocharger (when both cars were built they had turbo chargers of one kind or another, but the cars used on the show were powered by carburetor fueled crate engines) and a tan interior."

[Kavinsky]

ah and being car 1, chances are that it had been there all along, and maybe they tidied it up abit latter on with the latter cars and its only just because of the Missing Grill that we even noticed it in the first place.

 

as car 1 did have a flat horizontal grill on it, while the later ones were slightly sloped

Edited October 15, 2015 by Kavinsky

[jurassic narc]

After owning my Daytona for over a decade, and doing countless hours of work on the car, it is now in my rear view mirror.  I sold the car to a company that will be putting on a special show at the summer's Miami Boat Show.  They plan a Miami Vice themed event, and are trying to get participation by DJ and PMT.  I understood, but not 100%, that Olivia Brown and Michael Talbot have signed on to appear at the event.  Should be a very interesting event for any Vice fans in the area.  They plan to have one of the boats, as well, but I'm not an expert on those so I am not sure which boat they have.

 

As to owning a Daytona, the car was a pure pleasure to drive and own.  Like any 30+ year old car it had maintenance challenges, especially getting the A/C to work.  But the overall experience was great.  And the challenges of researching the details to get the car just right were what kept me going.  If you decide to take on the project, this site is a great source of information.  There are a number of knowledgeable people here who are more than willing to help.

 

As to me, while I don't have the car, I still will be checking in on occasion.  I have some good friends who have helped me on my journey with the car.  Camera Daytona, and VoloBrian have been friends, supporters, and provided assistance any way they could.

 

Thanks to all those who helped make my dream an eleven year reality!!  (Which means I got to drive the car 9 years longer than Don Johnson!)

 

JN

[Kavinsky]

Yeah I also finally noticed that you replied to that status update I posted like a year ago and that you needed a project to get over the loss of a loved one, hence why you went for it and it was just time to move on, and I'm sorry I didnt notice earlier as I didnt even know people could reply to that nor did I get the notification about it.

 

and well it should be interesting to see how the boys take to seeing the car again if they do show up so to speak. hell maybe Don himself will buy it from the show lol

 

Anyways what I came here to post was maybe a theory as to what caused the engine block replacement in the daytona, now I've been a fan and viewer of the rambling around channel for awhile and recently the kid had a wipe out with his trans am as seen here

 

 

the curious thing is this however, as the exhaust was taken out by that jump he did, and well what he says could have happened from running it like that with a pinched head might explain the engine blow out and replacement block that the daytona got in S2, especially considering the jumping the car did in S1

 

 

like maybe it pinched a header and caused that damage, and also hence why we didnt see it do anymore of that kind of action in S2 or its brief work in S3.

 

as it certainly hit hard enough to probably do that, and it would explain why the headers were also replaced on the car, as maybe it was for more than just a performance reason?

Edited January 6, 2016 by Kavinsky

[volobrian]

The engine was replaced after the show, in 1989.  There is a good amount of paperwork with the car.  After it was used in Speed Zone, it was being driven from one shop to the next, the driver hot dogged the car and blew the engine.  It was replaced with a 1986 TPI.  We've since put it back to a 4bbl carb and intake.

 

Thank you jurassic narc for your help and I am glad I could help you in return!

[Kavinsky]

ah actually I ment car 4, the camera car, as the engine block was replaced sometime during the shows run, and judging by the hopping it did it wouldnt be to hard to think that maybe the exhaust or the header got pinched like it did with the trans am there during the filming of the hitlist at 0:28

 

 

plus it would explain why they never did that again past that.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Kavinsky