Episode #111 "Freefall"

[ViceFanMan]

On 6/28/2020 at 6:26 PM, Vincent Hanna said:

Oh Okay thank you. So DJ was happy doing S4 in the beginning but only became disgruntled with the show midway through the season when we saw all the silly stuff and was stuck in his contract?

I guess only Don himself would know for sure, but from how things appeared at the time, I wouldn’t say he was “happy” by the time Season 4 rolled around.  

Now, he did have a special contract that he got earlier in the show (still during its glory-days) that got him a higher salary than everyone else...but I think even by mid to end of Season 3, the ratings and immense popularity were starting to fade (mainly because of a change in production and different writers & subsequently poor and sometimes flat out stupid plots/scripts). 

So, I think by the time Season 4 came several of the cast (not just Don) were tired of the goofball plots & were looking to be done & move on...but had to finish out the contract for MV first, which was most likely a 5yr contract. Don had done a couple movies while MV was still on, but nothing blockbuster, by any means. However, that was his plan—to do feature films once MV was over. 

But, although he did a few movies in the first years after MV ended, they never reached “Harrison Ford” or “Tom Cruise” status. Eventually he returned to TV and did Nash Bridges. Personally I’m glad he did—as although movies are fun (sometimes ), in a series on TV to me you get a lot more out of a character and the idea of what the plot is about, than a one-time thing.  

Edited July 12, 2020 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

7 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I guess only Don himself would know for sure, but from how things appeared at the time, I wouldn’t say he was “happy” by the time Season 4 rolled around.  

Now, he did have a special contract that he got earlier in the show (still during its glory-days) that got him a higher salary than everyone else...but I think even by mid to end of Season 3, the ratings and immense popularity was starting to fade (mainly because of a change in production and different writers & subsequently poor and sometimes flat out stupid plots/scripts). 

So, I think by the time Season 4 came several of the cast (not just Don) were tired of the goofball plots & were looking to be done & move on...but had to finish out the contract for MV first, which was most likely a 5yr contract. Don had done a couple movies while MV was still on, but by no means  anything blockbuster. However, that was his plan—to do feature films once MV was over. 

But, although he did a few movies in the first years after MV ended, they never reached “Harrison Ford” or “Tom Cruise” status. Eventually he returned to TV and did Nash Bridges. Personally I’m glad he did—as although movies are fun (sometimes ), in a series on TV to me you get a lot more out of a character and the idea of what the plot is about, than a one-time thing.  

Didn't he get Dick Wolf sacked?

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

Didn't he get Dick Wolf sacked?

I’m not sure...I don’t think they got along, but didn’t Wolf finish the show out, after Mann sadly handed the main production reins over to him? 

[RedDragon86]

6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I’m not sure...I don’t think they got along, but didn’t Wolf finish the show out, after Mann sadly handed the main production reins over to him? 

I thought I read this from somewhere.....

Wolf on being fired from Miami Vice by “Miami Vice” star Don Johnson.

“As with many things in life, Don arranging my departure was actually a huge favor, because it meant creating my own shows,” Wolf said. He added, “To prove time heals all wounds, I had a big Christmas party on Saturday, and Don was there.”

Edited July 12, 2020 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

I thought I heard this from somewhere.....

Wolf on being fired from Miami Vice by “Miami Vice” star Don Johnson.

“As with many things in life, Don arranging my departure was actually a huge favor, because it meant creating my own shows,” Wolf said. He added, “To prove time heals all wounds, I had a big Christmas party on Saturday, and Don was there.”

Maybe he did...sounds like it, lol! I’d read & heard they didn’t get along at the time. When in the show (what season) was this from, do you know?

[RedDragon86]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

Maybe he did...sounds like it, lol! I’d read & heard they didn’t get along at the time. When in the show (what season) was this from, do you know?

I am not sure, maybe early season 5? I know he lasted until the end of season 4 because he talked about Bonnie Timmermann casting Julia Roberts and how he thought she looked too young. 

[AndrewRemington]

Well, I made almost a 360 on this one. I just rewatched “Freefall” a couple nights ago. I had only watched it once and hated it. It was over five years since I watched it. I told myself I wouldn’t watch it again, but really wanted to make it through the whole series again (still haven’t watched “Miracle Man” again as I remember it being very lame. But maybe tonight...)

”Freefall” is actually very good, but depressing. It seems like an “all for nothing” episode. They risk their lives on a very dangerous mission to save a scumbag dictator and then end up killing him themselves. Sheesh! I guess that would make me quit my job too! There were many other times their work was “all for nothing” but this last time was the icing on the cake. Throw the badges on the ground. Man, Castillo looked very weird. His hair and moustache both looked fake in his final appearance.

But, it was a very exciting and bigger budget episode! That is good!

My biggest disappointment is the clip show ending. That “Tell Me” song was just some stupid song from 1973 that sounds like Joe Cocker (barf). I’m not a big fan of most 70’s music. Some of the disco and new wave stuff was cool towards the end of the decade. The clips just seemed all over the place. Just random clips from whenever.

But overall, it was good to see some closure. It was an entertaining episode with many curves. Definitely not boring, but depressing. At least Sonny and Rico made it out alive and remained friends even after departing the Vice squad. I honestly had some tears in that last scene.  Time to revisit Season 1!

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, AndrewRemington said:

Well, I made almost a 360 on this one. I just rewatched “Freefall” a couple nights ago. I had only watched it once and hated it. It was over five years since I watched it. I told myself I wouldn’t watch it again, but really wanted to make it through the whole series again (still haven’t watched “Miracle Man” again as I remember it being very lame. But maybe tonight...)

”Freefall” is actually very good, but depressing. It seems like an “all for nothing” episode. They risk their lives on a very dangerous mission to save a scumbag dictator and then end up killing him themselves. Sheesh! I guess that would make me quit my job too! There were many other times their work was “all for nothing” but this last time was the icing on the cake. Throw the badges on the ground. Man, Castillo looked very weird. His hair and moustache both looked fake in his final appearance.

But, it was a very exciting and bigger budget episode! That is good!

My biggest disappointment is the clip show ending. That “Tell Me” song was just some stupid song from 1973 that sounds like Joe Cocker (barf). I’m not a big fan of most 70’s music. Some of the disco and new wave stuff was cool towards the end of the decade. The clips just seemed all over the place. Just random clips from whenever.

But overall, it was good to see some closure. It was an entertaining episode with many curves. Definitely not boring, but depressing. At least Sonny and Rico made it out alive and remained friends even after departing the Vice squad. I honestly had some tears in that last scene.  Time to revisit Season 1!

I wouldn’t call it “exciting”, but it was definitely depressing!  Definitely an all-for-nothing episode, and there was really no point to it. It leaves you hanging and the rest of the cast is basically absent. I still say the show deserved and needed much better ending...it was very disappointing and not much proverbial wind for the sails.  However, as to who likes whichever episodes for whatever reasons...to each his or her own.  

P.S. “Miracle Man” isn’t probably worth re-watching, either. I’ve always said that “Cows of October” was the 2nd worst episode of the show...but, “Miracle Man” probably could run it a darn close second.    

 

[RedDragon86]

The guy on the left is a terrible actor and his lines in this scene are even worse.

"To protect some...some...some...dictator"

Watch this scene back, how bad was that? 

[Adrian321]

I watched the finale some days ago, and I am very pleased with it, and consider it one of the best if not the best episode of the entrie series. 10/10.

I saw some heated season 1 and 2 fanboys and fangirls here who........ pretty much just complained about what this great episode lacked. While, I have my personal criticism on this episode: 1.Pretty bad music; 2.It should've been more in Miami;3. It did leave some untied ends--- It had A LOT of good stuff in it, unlike most of the "Trash bin on fire", a.k.a. Season 5, and those are:

1. A Testarossa chase in the beggining (I absolutely hated the "Daytona", and all scenes with the Testarossa are so good, dragged down only by the bad music + because of the fact that the Testarossa was not that present in Season 5)

2. A Testarossa popular scene (Crockett and Tubbs driving in the night, to their final confrontation)

3. MANY EXPLOSIONS......... I did not count them all, but there are many of them, and are put along the entire span of the episode

4. MANY shootouts, IN A SINGLE episode, from the first parts of the episode, to the penultimum scene

5. It has a span of 2 average episodes, and not many MV episodes do

6. It had 8 songs, with 4 songs on average per "part" (the time of an average MV episode), and a season 5 episode of MV had an average of 2.71 songs

7. The final Castillo staredown after Crockett and Tubbs quit

8.Miami is shown from above in the beggining of the episode

9.That heartwarming credits montage showing the past 5 years of MV, in some iconic scenes, took from all seasons

9.The final dialogue between Crockett and Tubbs, portraying their burned-out state, while the sun shines, and also, we see the Testarossa for the final time

10.The last time we see Gina, Trudy, and we see some nice Stan action, put in the right context, where he got nothing to loose and his face is shown dark, making this a whole more dramatic

11. It showed the dirty nature of the "Feds" again, and how they get involved in the affairs

12. It showed Tubbs' emotional side after that girl was killed in Costa Morada

13. It had a bit of "style" that has been missing for the most part of the last 3 seasons

14. We see our duo travelling to Costa Morada (one of the few times in the series in which they temporarrily leave Miami)

15.We got a few boat scenes and also the last time we view Crockett's St Vitus Dance boat

16.We have some iconic quotes like----- "We had one hell of a run, didn't we, partner."--Crockett to Tubbs, commenting on both their careers in Vice and the series

17. We have an unique plot in the series, involving a south american country general, the feds, the OCB, the colombian cartel in a very twisted way, and I quite like it

18. It shows the situation of corruption in some countries very well, and the involvement of everyone, in some way or another, in them

ETC...... Many people just forget how great this episode is, and put their s1/2 fanboyism/fangirlism into it...... I personally think it could've been better, but also worse, like most of Season 4 or 5, not to mention, this unclear finale and Crockett and Tubbs leaving is very well put........... the show ended in a dramatic and sad way, and also, it couldn't have been like Season 1 or 2, BECAUSE it is not part of them as an episode and we got a new writer also...... not to mention the real life situation at that time of the show...... it was burned out, its ratings were going through the floor, and the surrounding episodes were quite dark, and many of them unwatchable.

If you have anything that you want to comment about my answer, you're welcomed to do so, HOWEVER, I won't answer to s1/2 fanboys/fangirls, only to valid criticism that includes the context of WHEN the episode first aired, and for those who say "Well....... it is not like original MV........ so it can't be good... PERIOD."- To them I say 1 thing: Then why the hell did you watch THE LAST 3 SEASONS, AND, why do you ignore all the good stuff this episode had ?! Also, if MV was ALWAYS full of style and light hearted, then it would've get burned out too....... just in a more boring way, so this "darker" shift was neccesary to avoid overusing something. I love S1/2 style, but to me...... they are quite empty otherwise.

[Tom]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Adrian321:

If you have anything that you want to comment about my answer, you're welcomed to do so, HOWEVER, I won't answer to s1/2 fanboys/fangirls, only to valid criticism that includes the context of WHEN the episode first aired, and for those who say "Well....... it is not like original MV........ so it can't be good... PERIOD."- To them I say 1 thing: Then why the hell did you watch THE LAST 3 SEASONS, AND, why do you ignore all the good stuff this episode had ?! Also, if MV was ALWAYS full of style and light hearted, then it would've get burned out too....... just in a more boring way, so this "darker" shift was neccesary to avoid overusing something. I love S1/2 style, but to me...... they are quite empty otherwise.

While I agree with most of your points regarding this last episode, I do not like repeated season1/2 fanboy mention here.

As you are a new member (welcome by the way!), I would like to emphasize that we do not have any fights here on the forum, as we left all the haters and fans with strong hostile "scientology" behaviour in the old long gone forum predecessors. So, please do us a favor and do NOT try to build up any artificial classes of real or perceived enemies here.

I am not aware of any season 1/2 "fanboys" here that do not respect other people´s opinion or attacking them for liking season 3-5. So, please do not do the same. They have the same right to dislike the finale as you have to like it. So, please let us keep any signs of bad climate out of here.

And, my last personal take on the tone I see arising with your post: 4 years of dividing climate was enough in politics. We all saw last month where that ended up. Let´s keep this out of the forum here at any cost.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tom

[daytona365]

[Dadrian]

@Adrian321welcome to the site. We are all Miami Vice fans here. Feel free to post with no inhibitions! 

[Robbie C.]

8 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

@Adrian321welcome to the site. We are all Miami Vice fans here. Feel free to post with no inhibitions! 

Agreed. Welcome! Some may get animated in their defense of a particular season or episode, but in the end it's all Vice.

[Dadrian]

4 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

but in the end it's all Vice.

EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE NO GOOD PIECE OF GARBAGE LEAP OF FAITH!!!

   

[Bren10]

With those critiques you yourself offered, I don't see how the episode is a 10/10. And I don't hate or even really dislike the episode but I find the criticisms of it to be largely legitimate, such as the whole thing feeling rushed and the entire supporting cast basically getting the shaft in the last third. I also can't see how it is the best in the series when the elements of what actually made the series up to this point are largely absent. And yes, a lot of those defining elements were defined by the first and second seasons. There is no way around this. But I don't base my own issues with this ep on the first and second seasons only. By the same token, I find a lot of people tend to elevate Freefall more than it deserves only because it's the final episode, which also is not quite fair. I watched all the seasons because I loved the show and it still had something to offer inspite of (though not usually because of) any changes, which admittedly were inevitable on some level as they are for any TV show. If you thought the first 2 seasons were largely empty, then I could ask you why you even stuck with the show at all past that point. If I don't have much use for a show I typically don't sit through 2 seasons of it waiting for it to improve. But in the end, to each their own.

[Robbie C.]

34 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE NO GOOD PIECE OF GARBAGE LEAP OF FAITH!!!

   

NO, YOU MEAN THE GREAT MCCARTHY!!!!!!!! WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION!!!!

[Dadrian]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

NO, YOU MEAN THE GREAT MCCARTHY!!!!!!!! WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION!!!!

AT LEAST THE LAST 5 SECONDS!!!!

[ViceFanMan]

25 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

NO, YOU MEAN THE GREAT MCCARTHY!!!!!!!! WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION!!!!

Even if you don’t like MCCARTHY...MISSING HOURS is the WORST piece of TV “crap” ever created in the history of television—nothing in ANY other show I can think of or have seen, is as despicable and utter garbage as MISSING!!   

[ViceFanMan]

56 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

With those critiques you yourself offered, I don't see how the episode is a 10/10. And I don't hate or even really dislike the episode but I find the criticisms of it to be largely legitimate, such as the whole thing feeling rushed and the entire supporting cast basically getting the shaft in the last third. I also can't see how it is the best in the series when the elements of what actually made the series up to this point are largely absent. And yes, a lot of those defining elements were defined by the first and second seasons. There is no way around this. But I don't base my own issues with this ep on the first and second seasons only. By the same token, I find a lot of people tend to elevate Freefall more than it deserves only because it's the final episode, which also is not quite fair. I watched all the seasons because I loved the show and it still had something to offer inspite of (though not usually because of) any changes, which admittedly were inevitable on some level as they are for any TV show. If you thought the first 2 seasons were largely empty, then I could ask you why you even stuck with the show at all past that point. If I don't have much use for a show I typically don't sit through 2 seasons of it waiting for it to improve. But in the end, to each their own.

Amen...although I intensely dislike and was very disappointed with Freefall (especially as the show’s finale), this was very well put!!  

Edited February 6, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Tom]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Robbie C.:

NO, YOU MEAN THE GREAT MCCARTHY!!!!!!!! WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION!!!!

WHAT ABOUT THE PEANUT BUTTER/ALIEN CASE????

[Mr. Vigilante]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

NO, YOU MEAN THE GREAT MCCARTHY!!!!!!!! WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION!!!!

My love for McCarthy's party band make this one of the greatest things in tv history!!

[ViceFanMan]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Vigilante said:

My love for McCarthy's party band make this one of the greatest things in tv history!!

Amen!!  The action, music, fashion, and the overall plot made ‘McCarthy’ an awesome & fun episode to watch!  

[Adrian321]

Damn........ didn't expect people to be so active here. I put first seasons "fanboyism" as a remark in regards with some of the mentions that I've read about this episode that involved something like this. I am a huge fan of s1 and 2 myself and find them to be the most consistent, and have oly 1-2 bad episodes each, HOWEVER I found people here who rate alright episodes from first seasons a 10, and then they kind of critique the #### out of a very good episode that isn't from that initial "nature" (light hearted with a lot of great music, etc), and that kind of pisses me off, and that is another reason why I put that term. I certainly agree that first 2 seasons are the best as a whole, but for me some of my favourite episodes are not from there, maybe I like the way the series is explored. Or I don't know really..... Also, the Testarossa really plays a big role in my perspective, as I absolutely loved the way that jewel of a car looked compared to that Corvette "Daytona", but that may be my subjective opinion only. I am very sad that Season 5 felt for the most part depressing and SO dark, but it had 5-6 top notch episodes in my book, including the finale that we talk about. I skiped quite a bit of season 4, the "unwatchable" parts, and the Season 3 had about 3-4 really weak episodes. I went on for quite a bit, since I wanted to clarify the usage of my term and that I really like the consistency and style of first Seasons.

[Dadrian]

2 hours ago, Mr. Vigilante said:

My love for McCarthy's party band make this one of the greatest things in tv history!!

Don’t forget the dancers!  

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

Amen!!  The action, music, fashion, and the overall plot made ‘McCarthy’ an awesome & fun episode to watch!  

Yes, the same for me!