Episode #111 "Freefall"


Ferrariman

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2 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I just started reading Robbie's fan fiction 'Task force' (set after the Freefall events) and I'm really liking it! My own fiction would take place in the early to mid 90s with Crockett this time going to NY where he reunite with Tubbs...in a similar fashion to what a rumored TV reunion would have been had it taken place.

Don't forget, though, that Tubbs had burned pretty much every bridge possible with NYPD just to get to Miami in the first place, and that's canon. I got five novel-length stories out of the Task Force (with another set after it closed down), and if you're plotting stuff it's best to leave yourself some room to maneuver.

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4 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Don't forget, though, that Tubbs had burned pretty much every bridge possible with NYPD just to get to Miami in the first place, and that's canon

He's new york bound at the end of the Freefall and I can always find a way of getting him back into law enforcement ;)

Edited by sdiegolo78
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7 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

He's new york bound at the end of the Freefall and I can always find a way of getting him back into law enforcement ;)

I think he was just chasing Valerie again. Dude can NEVER shake her...

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2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Don't forget, though, that Tubbs had burned pretty much every bridge possible with NYPD just to get to Miami in the first place, and that's canon. I got five novel-length stories out of the Task Force (with another set after it closed down), and if you're plotting stuff it's best to leave yourself some room to maneuver.

True, Tubbs had burned some bridges with NYPD in the beginning (mostly after Prodigal Son, even over the Pilot). But, years later (if we’re talking the mid 90s) a lot of those cops could be gone from the force (fired, prosecuted, dead, left, etc...). Also, if Tubbs was burned out from being a regular cop he could have done something else law enforcement-wise if returning to NY and where he came from.

Lots of possibilities, and lots of interesting directions to take the characters. :thumbsup: I’ve written some fanfics for other shows I like in the past, although not MV (but I’ve thought about it). Always fun, but no matter what we write...it’s never ‘canon’, even if we include original canon aspects. ;)

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8 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

He's new york bound at the end of the Freefall and I can always find a way of getting him back into law enforcement ;)

 

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I think he was just chasing Valerie again. Dude can NEVER shake her...

Both are probably correct...he could never get Valerie out of his mind, lol! His femme fatale. :rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

I think he was just chasing Valerie again. Dude can NEVER shake her...

...or tie some loose ends in NewYork...worth exploring how his brother Rafael was 'sold' to Calderone...:p

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Just now, sdiegolo78 said:

...or tie some loose ends in NewYork...worth exploring how his brother Rafael was 'sold' to Calderone...:p

There’d always be ways for him to return to NY...especially if it was years later (90s) and he had re-established himself back there in some way.

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VFM's other post inspired me to track this down. I never would've thought to associate MV with Ride of the Valkyries, but Michael Mann has said Apocalypse Now is one of his favorite films.

I used to watch both ALF and The Hogans starting when it was Valerie. And that NBC movie intro and announcer's voice bring back some major memories. He was definitely one of the best at that.

 

 

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It seems to me that "Freefall" has not fulfilled the expectations and hopes of a significant number of MV's fans. They wanted a conclusion to the character development of the team members and a kind of farewell party.

"Freefall" is definitely not that. But it shouldn't be, it seems to me.  For me it is mainly the mirror episode to the pilot.


The pilot is essentially about the characters, who are introduced to us very vividly and in detail. The dangers of being undercover and the problems of the system are also present, but still rather in the background.


"Freefall" is the opposite of that.  At the end of the show, the whole framework of the system in which the team operates is presented one more time in detail: South America (cartels, military dictatorship, politics, guerrillas), the USA (drug dealers, federal authorities, financial world, management of the local police, informers) and the multiple interconnections. That´s a big part of "Frefall".
The characters, the team, appear more in the margins and are almost passive bystanders. Crockett and Tubbs make one last futile effort to win the battle against the system - and fail.  In doing so, the show answers a key question it has been asking repeatedly throughout: Does Crockett and Tubbs' work make sense? Can they succeed at all, improve people's lives, make it safer? Crockett draws the conclusion to leave the system altogether.  Tubbs wants to stay with the force, only to return to NY, if I understand correctly.


It seems to me that the real conclusion of the character development takes mostly place before "Freefall".
The earliest, and for me most unsatisfying, end of character development is with Gina and Trudy. Castillo's last major episode is "Miami Squeeze", although he still sets important accents in "Over the Line". Tubb's conclusion of character development is "Too much, too late".  With Crockett it would probably have been "Crockett on the Edge". I'm really sad that this episode was never made. There's a hole in the story. And Switek? I honestly don't understand.  Was that supposed to be some kind of cliffhanger in case it does continue somehow?


Those are my 2 cents about " Freefall".

Edited by Glades
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20 minutes ago, Glades said:

It seems to me that "Freefall" has not fulfilled the expectations and hopes of a significant number of MV's fans. They wanted a conclusion to the character development of the team members and a kind of farewell party.

"Freefall" is definitely not that. But it shouldn't be, it seems to me.  For me it is mainly the mirror episode to the pilot.


The pilot is essentially about the characters, who are introduced to us very vividly and in detail. The dangers of being undercover and the problems of the system are also present, but still rather in the background.


"Freefall" is the opposite of that.  At the end of the show, the whole framework of the system in which the team operates is presented one more time in detail: South America (cartels, military dictatorship, politics, guerrillas), the USA (drug dealers, federal authorities, financial world, management of the local police, informers) and the multiple interconnections. That´s a big part of "Frefall".
The characters, the team, appear more in the margins and are almost passive bystanders. Crockett and Tubbs make one last futile effort to win the battle against the system - and fail.  In doing so, the show answers a key question it has been asking repeatedly throughout: Does Crockett and Tubbs' work make sense? Can they succeed at all, improve people's lives, make it safer? Crockett draws the conclusion to leave the system altogether.  Tubbs wants to stay with the force, only to return to NY, if I understand correctly.


It seems to me that the real conclusion of the character development takes mostly place before "Freefall".
The earliest, and for me most unsatisfying, end of character development is with Gina and Trudy. Castillo's last major episode is "Miami Squeeze", although he still sets important accents in "Over the Line". Tubb's conclusion of character development is "Too much, too late".  With Crockett it would probably have been "Crockett on the Edge". I'm really sad that this episode was never made. There's a hole in the story. And Switek? I honestly don't understand.  Was that supposed to be some kind of cliffhanger in case it does continue somehow?


Those are my 2 cents about " Freefall".

I think you’re for the most part right. I don’t know about a “farewell party” :p, but I think most of us were expecting and wanting something better. Even if the OCB had basically served its purpose and was sort of falling apart/losing its battle with the world of drugs coming into the U.S....I think most of us still wanted a better “closure” for the characters, even if they planned to leave.

 I think most of us feel it should have been handled differently & were not only disappointed but somewhat angry at the “pointless-ness” of Freefall. It basically didn’t need to be made if that’s what they were going to do with it. As you said, most of the characters were “done” by previous episodes...if they (even C&T) and the show itself was not going to be honored better, then (even though the “idea” of a 2hr finale was cool) what was the point? 

We already knew the corruption and drug world was becoming more than the OCB could handle...why “dishonor” them even more and say “that’s all, folks!”?? It was just very disappointing and for a 2hr finale...a dud! :(

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24 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I don’t know about a “farewell party”

Sorry about my English!

What I intended to say is, if one part of ones life end and another begins, there is often a "celebration"? Better vocabulary than "party"? Something like what happens at the end of the college time etc. Where people who shared a significant way of life come together and interact.

I assume you would had have something like this in mind for the last episode? As the main part of the plot not just some clips?

Edited by Glades
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Well

56 minutes ago, Glades said:

It seems to me that "Freefall" has not fulfilled the expectations and hopes of a significant number of MV's fans. They wanted a conclusion to the character development of the team members and a kind of farewell party.

"Freefall" is definitely not that. But it shouldn't be, it seems to me.  For me it is mainly the mirror episode to the pilot.


The pilot is essentially about the characters, who are introduced to us very vividly and in detail. The dangers of being undercover and the problems of the system are also present, but still rather in the background.


"Freefall" is the opposite of that.  At the end of the show, the whole framework of the system in which the team operates is presented one more time in detail: South America (cartels, military dictatorship, politics, guerrillas), the USA (drug dealers, federal authorities, financial world, management of the local police, informers) and the multiple interconnections. That´s a big part of "Frefall".
The characters, the team, appear more in the margins and are almost passive bystanders. Crockett and Tubbs make one last futile effort to win the battle against the system - and fail.  In doing so, the show answers a key question it has been asking repeatedly throughout: Does Crockett and Tubbs' work make sense? Can they succeed at all, improve people's lives, make it safer? Crockett draws the conclusion to leave the system altogether.  Tubbs wants to stay with the force, only to return to NY, if I understand correctly.


It seems to me that the real conclusion of the character development takes mostly place before "Freefall".
The earliest, and for me most unsatisfying, end of character development is with Gina and Trudy. Castillo's last major episode is "Miami Squeeze", although he still sets important accents in "Over the Line". Tubb's conclusion of character development is "Too much, too late".  With Crockett it would probably have been "Crockett on the Edge". I'm really sad that this episode was never made. There's a hole in the story. And Switek? I honestly don't understand.  Was that supposed to be some kind of cliffhanger in case it does continue somehow?


Those are my 2 cents about " Freefall".

I think you are correct. Freefall is a dramatic but sort of expected/neccesary end. IT began to show way back in "Deliver us from evil" and reached its peak here. There was no way around it. Even if they took ANY diffrent approach, it would've innevitably led to The "burn-out" peak. 

Did we get enough character development? No.... Was it That neccesary in The finale? No..... All The cast had multiple chances throught The show's span. Would you Take time from Crockett and Tubbs to make more general character development? No.... I'd rather have less of Gina than have her ruin another episode, and also since this was The finale, I think It's good we got more focus on The Main characters. Is The plot bad? I think not at all. Could it have been better executed to fit The need of many MV fans? Sure.

Also, you put it very well That It's the mirrored Brother's keeper. In Brother's keeper The show began fresh and flashing. In The finale The show ended in a sad and depressing tone. 

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48 minutes ago, Glades said:

Sorry about my English!

What I intended to say is, if one part of ones life end and another begins, there is often a "celebration"? Better vocabulary than "party"? Something like what happens at the end of the college time etc. Where people who shared a significant way of life come together and interact.

I assume you would had have something like this in mind for the last episode? As the main part of the plot not just some clips?

I knew what you meant, lol! :D But, in a sense you’re probably right. I think most of us were wanting a more honorable and even positive end for the characters (ALL the characters). If they leave or go do something else...fine. But, Freefall just seemed to “dishonor” all of them, and the show itself. The plot, lack of any character-depth, location, and the ultimate end were just bad & pointless. The plot of this “episode” could have been done earlier in the season (as a 1hr standard one) but not use it as the 2hr series finale. 

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The series final surely leaves some questions unanswered and a little bit of bitterness among viewers. Perhaps this being the last episode accentuates that feeling of doom and depression. I agree with the analysis in this thread as the main characters start kind of confident in the system believing they can make a difference with their job. But as the show runs its course and towards the end everybody loses faith in what they use to believe and all the external factors (government interference, a corrupt system and personal circumstances) make Sonny and Rico's job futile.

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We can say lots of things about Freefall ... But at least, it was an end for the series ...

I say that because now, when a tv show ends, there is aways possibilities for a spin off or a sequel ... 

In fact, I like the last minutes of Freefall ... :)

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57 minutes ago, Kladdagh said:

We can say lots of things about Freefall ... But at least, it was an end for the series ...

I say that because now, when a tv show ends, there is aways possibilities for a spin off or a sequel ... 

In fact, I like the last minutes of Freefall ... :)

It sort of seems like it was left open for a reunion/sequel later on (although it was definitely stated it was the end). If they’d of done one, say in the 90s sometime, that might have “saved” Freefall. But, sadly that never happened.

I remember when I was little and everyone was upset & mad at Empire Strikes Back, with the original “Star Wars” movies. Back in 1980 people weren’t used to cliffhangers yet...they didn’t like having things end on “terrible” notes, & you’re left hanging. But, it was known that Return of the Jedi was coming & would rectify everything...which it did. It’s sort of like Freefall is the “Empire Strikes Back” of MV...but then there’s no proverbial “Return of the Jedi” to fix or explain everything. With MV we were left hanging & not on good (or in my opinion acceptable) notes. 

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Once again, I have to point at MASH's finale, which basically set the standard for this. That finale wasn't a big feel-good party but it managed to tie up loose ends and give character resolution while at the same time leaving the future open . There were goodbyes exchanged emotionally, but it was after suffering through some seriously dark subject matter to come out the other side. I don't see why MV couldn't have followed suit. In fact, I find it to be somewhat lazy writing because I don't think they were able to come up with a satisfactory ending with C&T remaining on the force so they just decided to have them quit. Yes it made some sense in the moment on impulse, but in the long term I certainly don't buy these two men separating themselves from law enforcement, or even Vice, entirely. Yes, of course there was burnout. But burnout is not forever. These men are basically in an abusive relationship with law enforcement but they keep coming back to it because as bad as it is sometimes, it's still the heightened experience of their lives. I can envision an ending akin to Jim Belushi's The Principal where he and Lou Gossett concede they'll be back on Monday because they're both "very stupid men". A new case could come up and C&T can still drive off into the sunset and off into the 90s if you want.

The bookending/inverting of the pilot is clever, but narrative things like that are more important to writers and people on the production side of things than they are to the general audience and average fans. Remember there were no blu rays in '89 to pore over and point out easter eggs on. Most of the audience in '89 didn't remember what was onscreen 4 years-plus prior in order to appreciate the nuances of filmmaking. What that audience wants, and I think fans want, is a satisfactory experience and ending, and in that regard Freefall falls short imo. I don' hate it or even think it's a bad episode, but I do not think it's a great ending. There are are good moments in the ep but I think this is a case of the parts more than the sum. And explosions don't impress me in terms of story.

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24 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Once again, I have to point at MASH's finale, which basically set the standard for this. That finale wasn't a big feel-good party but it managed to tie up loose ends and give character resolution while at the same time leaving the future open . There were goodbyes exchanged emotionally, but it was after suffering through some seriously dark subject matter to come out the other side. I don't see why MV couldn't have followed suit. In fact, I find it to be somewhat lazy writing because I don't think they were able to come up with a satisfactory ending with C&T remaining on the force so they just decided to have them quit. Yes it made some sense in the moment on impulse, but in the long term I certainly don't buy these two men separating themselves from law enforcement, or even Vice, entirely. Yes, of course there was burnout. But burnout is not forever. These men are basically in an abusive relationship with law enforcement but they keep coming back to it because as bad as it is sometimes, it's still the heightened experience of their lives. I can envision an ending akin to Jim Belushi's The Principal where he and Lou Gossett concede they'll be back on Monday because they're both "very stupid men". A new case could come up and C&T can still drive off into the sunset and off into the 90s if you want.

The bookending/inverting of the pilot is clever, but narrative things like that are more important to writers and people on the production side of things than they are to the general audience and average fans. Remember there were no blu rays in '89 to pore over and point out easter eggs on. Most of the audience in '89 didn't remember what was onscreen 4 years-plus prior in order to appreciate the nuances of filmmaking. What that audience wants, and I think fans want, is a satisfactory experience and ending, and in that regard Freefall falls short imo. I don' hate it or even think it's a bad episode, but I do not think it's a great ending. There are are good moments in the ep but I think this is a case of the parts more than the sum. And explosions don't impress me in terms of story.

Very well put! I’ve not ever seen MASH’s finale...but I’ve heard about it. I agree that MV didn’t necessarily have to have the farewell-party/feel-good ending, but it needed resolution & closure for the characters. The plot could have been way better, too. I also agree that C&T would not stay away very long. ;)

 I remembered (young as I was at the time) what had been MV 4-5 years prior back in ‘89. That’s why Freefall is so disappointing & a crappy finale to me. Explosions don’t necessarily impress me either (although they are cool some of the time depending on the story), Lol! The finale could have & should have been so much better! 

Edited by ViceFanMan
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/9/2021 at 1:39 PM, Kladdagh said:

We can say lots of things about Freefall ... But at least, it was an end for the series ...

I say that because now, when a tv show ends, there is aways possibilities for a spin off or a sequel ... 

In fact, I like the last minutes of Freefall ... :)

Agreed. Personally, after Freefall and the end of MV, I wanted a spin-off series where Crockett used the money he could  have inherited when Caitlin was killed to open a private detective agency with Rico somewhere in the Keys (C&T Investigations ?!). The MV polts were getting inconsistent and that would have opened up a crapload of new stories for the sequel series episodes ... Old pals from OCB and other MV characters could have co-starred, guest-starred and/or been reappearing characters, and some loose ends could have been tied up and they could have screwed with some of the corrupt entities that caused them to leave LE.

Don Johnson could have had a few more good Crockett years from 1990 to 96, when he started doing Nash Bridges......

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16 hours ago, cybercop106 said:

Agreed. Personally, after Freefall and the end of MV, I wanted a spin-off series where Crockett used the money he could  have inherited when Caitlin was killed to open a private detective agency with Rico somewhere in the Keys (C&T Investigations ?!). The MV polts were getting inconsistent and that would have opened up a crapload of new stories for the sequel series episodes ... Old pals from OCB and other MV characters could have co-starred, guest-starred and/or been reappearing characters, and some loose ends could have been tied up and they could have screwed with some of the corrupt entities that caused them to leave LE.

Don Johnson could have had a few more good Crockett years from 1990 to 96, when he started doing Nash Bridges......

Well..... as Don Johnson himself said: sort of this thing "MV was MV because of its context" (Basically it being set up in the 80's), when replying to the reboot of the series. So, while this sounds good on paper, it wouldn't pay off......... Also, the show lost most of its audience by that point. No one could guarantee it will rise back up, especially after all these seasons, and after its main fuel (the 80's)-passed.

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19 hours ago, cybercop106 said:

, I wanted a spin-off series where Crockett used the money he could  have inherited when Caitlin was killed to open a private detective agency with Rico somewhere in the Keys (C&T Investigations ?!)

Why not? and perhaps with Noggie and Izzy as consultants :)...PS: we don't even know what it was of the money and wealth Sonny inherited from Caitlin.

Edited by sdiegolo78
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17 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Why not? and perhaps with Noggie and Izzy as consultants :)...PS: we don't even know what it was of the money and wealth Sonny inherited from Caitlin.

That's because the powers that be forgot about it ten seconds after her character was killed off. I did make use of it in my stuff, including a returning villain.

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On 7/30/2015 at 7:28 PM, Noggie said:

I've wondered that too. When exactly was it announced the series would be canceled & what were the plans in place if it hadn't been. I wrote this before that it feels like the series was ending all along. There's just a cloud hanging over every episode. It always feels like they're heading toward the end.

I agree. It was indicated in many ways, I thought although could have finished in a less downbeat fashion. Sonny and Rico had been like blood brothers for 5 seasons yet here they are planning to part forever and go separately into uncertain and unspecified futures. That handclasp over the car roof- not enough after such a long and eventful association.

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On 3/9/2021 at 8:00 PM, Adrian321 said:

Agreed. Personally, after Freefall and the end of MV, I wanted a spin-off series where Crockett used the money he could  have inherited when Caitlin was killed to open a private detective agency with Rico somewhere in the Keys (C&T Investigations ?!). The MV polts were getting inconsistent and that would have opened up a crapload of new stories for the sequel series episodes ... Old pals from OCB and other MV characters could have co-starred, guest-starred and/or been reappearing characters, and some loose ends could have been tied up and they could have screwed with some of the corrupt entities that caused them to leave LE.

Don Johnson could have had a few more good Crockett years from 1990 to 96, when he started doing Nash Bridges......

I agree. I think their association still had a lot of potential and have suggested similar scenarios myself. Also certain  MV story lines were rushed I felt and could have been extended into more episodes, given the  right writers. DJ could still have done his films etc during the times between series, like he usually did, and I'm sure PMT would have been glad of the extra work. I haven't watched much of Nash Bridges (couldn't get into it at all and DJ was putting weight on too!) I feel that DJ helped to create this to get himself back on TV on a regular basis- successfully too. If NB managed to be a success despite  being a lightweight (as far as I could see) I think there would  still have been an audience for Crockett and Tubbs, which  would have been those disappointed MV fans!

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On 2/9/2021 at 9:22 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Once again, I have to point at MASH's finale, which basically set the standard for this. That finale wasn't a big feel-good party but it managed to tie up loose ends and give character resolution while at the same time leaving the future open . There were goodbyes exchanged emotionally, but it was after suffering through some seriously dark subject matter to come out the other side. I don't see why MV couldn't have followed suit. In fact, I find it to be somewhat lazy writing because I don't think they were able to come up with a satisfactory ending with C&T remaining on the force so they just decided to have them quit. Yes it made some sense in the moment on impulse, but in the long term I certainly don't buy these two men separating themselves from law enforcement, or even Vice, entirely. Yes, of course there was burnout. But burnout is not forever. These men are basically in an abusive relationship with law enforcement but they keep coming back to it because as bad as it is sometimes, it's still the heightened experience of their lives. I can envision an ending akin to Jim Belushi's The Principal where he and Lou Gossett concede they'll be back on Monday because they're both "very stupid men". A new case could come up and C&T can still drive off into the sunset and off into the 90s if you want.

The bookending/inverting of the pilot is clever, but narrative things like that are more important to writers and people on the production side of things than they are to the general audience and average fans. Remember there were no blu rays in '89 to pore over and point out easter eggs on. Most of the audience in '89 didn't remember what was onscreen 4 years-plus prior in order to appreciate the nuances of filmmaking. What that audience wants, and I think fans want, is a satisfactory experience and ending, and in that regard Freefall falls short imo. I don' hate it or even think it's a bad episode, but I do not think it's a great ending. There are are good moments in the ep but I think this is a case of the parts more than the sum. And explosions don't impress me in terms of story.

Couldn't agree more! All this could have been done and what's more, not only have been more satisfying but also a damned sight more believable!  Personally I think DJ wanted out to be free (as he thought) to pick juicy leading man  roles, which didn't materialise. Wonder if he  ever regretted it? By the way, no one has mentioned "Bad Attitude" being used- I'd never head it till then and now can't get the blasted song out of my head......

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