ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said: For myself, I think Season 3 has the best overall content in terms of storylines and grit but the worst mood; I feel there's a lack of intimacy between the show & the audience there. I love the season though, but at least I feel that the last two seasons bring back the intimacy. Season 4 is just so erratic in terms of tone, such a variety pack in terms of stories as well: I mean, I KIND of like that, but going through one sitting viewing 'The Big Thaw' and then heading to some 'Child's Play' I think can be a real rollercoaster ride. Season 2 is my overall favorite with all MV aspects...plots, characterization, colors, fashion, music, etc... But 3 does have some good episodes/plots! By the time we got to mid-4, on through 5 & up through Freefall (the end), it’d lost its proverbial way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said: Season 2 is my overall favorite with all MV aspects...plots, characterization, colors, fashion, music, etc... But 3 does have some good episodes/plots! By the time we got to mid-4, on through 5 & up through Freefall (the end), it’d lost its proverbial way. I think Season 2 was "The most enjoyable to watch" season overall. It had more complexity than S1, and at the same time, not having that "Athmosphere" from the last 3 seasons. I can agree on this. The plots were ok, for the most part. Some better than others. Some I even loved. And yes, about music and fashion, IT was the best. This is objective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: Season 2 is my overall favorite with all MV aspects...plots, characterization, colors, fashion, music, etc... But 3 does have some good episodes/plots! By the time we got to mid-4, on through 5 & up through Freefall (the end), it’d lost its proverbial way. You didn't like the amnesia arc then? And Deliver Us From Evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, wolfie1996 said: You didn't like the amnesia arc then? And Deliver Us From Evil? Deliver us from Evil is my 2nd favourite episode, and the Burnett saga are 6th, 7th and 8th favourite episodes. I, myself enjoyed every good part of these 3 seasons, since there was a lot of potential wasted, I feel that the "Strong" episodes of the last 3 seasons are stronger than the majority of the first seasons episodes. With those "rare-breed" episodes, they've hit just the right combination. Deliver us from evil and Forgive us our debts are THE BEST example of this. So much character involvement and such good integration of other MV elements in them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, ViceFanMan said: Season 2 is my overall favorite with all MV aspects...plots, characterization, colors, fashion, music, etc... But 3 does have some good episodes/plots! By the time we got to mid-4, on through 5 & up through Freefall (the end), it’d lost its proverbial way. For me there's an underlining silliness to how many of the characters (including the OCB crew) behave in season 4 that amuses me, but if I was tied to the ceiling in a trailer and demanded to choose a particular season, I'd go with Season 2 myself. Even the episodes that aren't necessarily fan favorites, such as 'French Twist', 'Free Verse', 'Florence Italy' (and I'm not really a racing fan, more of a boat race kind of guy, since I think it's easier to follow) and 'The Fix' I think highly of (I think the other episodes are pretty highly regarded). I feel it's an extension of the formula put in place in Season 1, but perfected (like Florence Italy perfected sex), although I don't mind that the formula was later changed, I just think that change could've been less polarizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Adrian321 said: Deliver us from Evil is my 2nd favourite episode, and the Burnett saga are 6th, 7th and 8th favourite episodes. I, myself enjoyed every good part of these 3 seasons, since there was a lot of potential wasted, I feel that the "Strong" episodes of the last 3 seasons are stronger than the majority of the first seasons episodes. With those "rare-breed" episodes, they've hit just the right combination. Deliver us from evil and Forgive us our debts are THE BEST example of this. So much character involvement and such good integration of other MV elements in them. Generally agree with you there Adrian, except I haven't properly ranked mine. Evan is by far my favourite but as you say the Burnett saga and the other strong later episodes (and there are some) are at least as good as much of the well-laded S1 and S2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, wolfie1996 said: Generally agree with you there Adrian, except I haven't properly ranked mine. Evan is by far my favourite but as you say the Burnett saga and the other strong later episodes (and there are some) are at least as good as much of the well-laded S1 and S2. I do like Evan. However, it is not in my top 10 most favourite episode. I think it is the 13th favourite episode of mine or something like that. I certainly like Evan more than Out where the buses don't run. My top 10 are: Freefall, Deliver us from evil, Forigive us our debts, Definitely Miami, Brother's keeper, Mirror image, Redemption in blood, Hostile takeover, Payback and The prodigal son, for those who are wondering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said: You didn't like the amnesia arc then? And Deliver Us From Evil? “Deliver” was right before the whole Crockett loses his memory & goes nuts...the “Burnett saga”. I liked Deliver and thought it was a very well done tragic & dramatic episode. However, the whole Burnett ridiculousness, with Crockett becoming a psycho drug-dealer killer was too bizarre and over-the-top. This is my opinion (however seemed to have been shared by the majority of fans as ratings dropped even further once that started), but it basically ruined the character of Crockett...and then when he wanted to come back and be a cop again like nothing had happened & everything was just fine, it was just too unrealistic (even for MV) and dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 But, even though the last couple seasons were pretty “rough”....since they created a special 2hr finale, I just wish Freefall could have included the whole cast way more, and had a better plot & end. Rectify the mistakes with one last proverbial bang to go out on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, ViceFanMan said: “Deliver” was right before the whole Crockett loses his memory & goes nuts...the “Burnett saga”. I liked Deliver and thought it was a very well done tragic & dramatic episode. However, the whole Burnett ridiculousness, with Crockett becoming a psycho drug-dealer killer was too bizarre and over-the-top. This is my opinion (however seemed to have been shared by the majority of fans as ratings dropped even further once that started), but it basically ruined the character of Crockett...and then when he wanted to come back and be a cop again like nothing had happened & everything was just fine, it was just too unrealistic (even for MV) and dumb. I dissagree on that. I don't think the Burnett saga was as over the top as other bad episodes stated earlier. It was perfect right after that cold-blooded revenge + you couldn't really get other plots for the show, since many of them were used previously. So the producers and writers made a gamble here. Make some good (but over-the-top) episodes. If they succed, then good, if not, then anyways, it's better than a Missing Hours 2. Also from a visual and lore point of view, the Burnett saga is good, no debate on this, even if its story consequences ruin the character of Crockett could be debated as to whether or not they are neccesary or bad. Atleast we got a more plausible burnout ending with this thing. The show was dying at that point anyways. So, we got some crazy-good arc in the end. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Adrian321 said: I do like Evan. However, it is not in my top 10 most favourite episode. I think it is the 13th favourite episode of mine or something like that. I certainly like Evan more than Out where the buses don't run. My top 10 are: Freefall, Deliver us from evil, Forigive us our debts, Definitely Miami, Brother's keeper, Mirror image, Redemption in blood, Hostile takeover, Payback and The prodigal son, for those who are wondering. Excellent choices, Adrian and mine would have been almost the same though with Evan at the top. Would replace Definitely Miami with another though. Possibly Milk Run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, Adrian321 said: I dissagree on that. I don't think the Burnett saga was as over the top as other bad episodes stated earlier. It was perfect right after that cold-blooded revenge + you couldn't really get other plots for the show, since many of them were used previously. So the producers and writers made a gamble here. Make some good (but over-the-top) episodes. If they succed, then good, if not, then anyways, it's better than a Missing Hours 2. Also from a visual and lore point of view, the Burnett saga is good, no debate on this, even if its story consequences ruin the character of Crockett could be debated as to whether or not they are neccesary or bad. Atleast we got a more plausible burnout ending with this thing. The show was dying at that point anyways. So, we got some crazy-good arc in the end. They were desperate to try and get back ratings, so that’s why they tried to be as bizarre and “wild” as possible for shock value. It failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, wolfie1996 said: Excellent choices, Adrian and mine would have been almost the same though with Evan at the top. Would replace Definitely Miami with another though. Possibly Milk Run. 80% the same is a good coincidence, isn't it ? I do like Definitely Miami a lot because, I think it is the "shiniest" episode in the series. Also because of that "Cry" scene. I like Milk Run too, but........ not in my top 20. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian321 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said: They were desperate to try and get back ratings, so that’s why they tried to be as bizarre and “wild” as possible for shock value. It failed. It depends on the person as whether it failed. For me, it was one of the best moves they did. Having 4 top 10 best episodes (in my view) in a row was such a good thing...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, Adrian321 said: It depends on the person as whether it failed. For me, it was one of the best moves they did. Having 4 top 10 best episodes (in my view) in a row was such a good thing...... True...everyone has their opinions on the likes & dislikes. However, the majority of fans/viewers (myself included) did not like it & ultimately ratings nose-dived even further. So ultimately it failed to recapture ratings and basically helped seal the show’s fate of cancellation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: But, even though the last couple seasons were pretty “rough”....since they created a special 2hr finale, I just wish Freefall could have included the whole cast way more, and had a better plot & end. Rectify the mistakes with one last proverbial bang to go out on. I wasn't too bothered about not seeing the whole cast at the end but I was very bothered about the implication that Crockett and Tubbs were heading into a bleak and uncertain future. Robbie has tackled this well in his fan fiction, and that scenario could have been used or at least hinted at in the finale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Adrian321 said: 80% the same is a good coincidence, isn't it ? I do like Definitely Miami a lot because, I think it is the "shiniest" episode in the series. Also because of that "Cry" scene. I like Milk Run too, but........ not in my top 20. I knew it would be the "Cry" scene that got you 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said: I wasn't too bothered about not seeing the whole cast at the end but I was very bothered about the implication that Crockett and Tubbs were heading into a bleak and uncertain future. Robbie has tackled this well in his fan fiction, and that scenario could have been used or at least hinted at in the finale. I'd like to think that both Crockett & Tubbs went on to become private detectives, but their futures were definitely left uncertain. When it comes to Vice, a lot of the time I like to bolster some of the narratives that the show presented in my mind (like picturing the working relationship between Tubbs & Clarence Batisse or the early rowdiness of Crockett, Evan Freed, and Mike Orgel), so many times what the show has alluded to but not displayed gets me thinking. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said: I wasn't too bothered about not seeing the whole cast at the end but I was very bothered about the implication that Crockett and Tubbs were heading into a bleak and uncertain future. Robbie has tackled this well in his fan fiction, and that scenario could have been used or at least hinted at in the finale. I’ve written some fanfics for some other shows I like, though not MV (although I’ve thought about it), and they can be fun & interesting...but ultimately no matter good they are or are not, none of them are technically “canon” for whatever show they’re about. That’s why I wish Freefall could have been much better! I did NOT like the bleak & uncertain future of C&T...but I also wanted more of the other cast members, too. I also wished for more ‘Miami’, but didn’t get that either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: Deliver” was right before the whole Crockett loses his memory & goes nuts...the “Burnett saga”. I liked Deliver and thought it was a very well done tragic & dramatic episode. However, the whole Burnett ridiculousness, with Crockett becoming a psycho drug-dealer killer was too bizarre and over-the-top. This is my opinion (however seemed to have been shared by the majority of fans as ratings dropped even further once that started), but it basically ruined the character of Crockett...and then when he wanted to come back and be a cop again like nothing had happened & everything was just fine, it was just too unrealistic (even for MV) and dumb. I don't agree that it ruined the character of Crockett as previous episodes had been hinting for a very long time back that some sort of crisis would happen to him. You could call the amnesia thing the equivalent of a nervous breakdown, which he was certainly heading for. By the way I never found it credible that people could actually not remember something because of an accident or injury till it happened to me ! No I didn't become a successful drug smuggler, unfortunately 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: I’ve written some fanfics for some other shows I like, though not MV (although I’ve thought about it), and they can be fun & interesting...but ultimately no matter good they are or are not, none of them are technically “canon” for whatever show they’re about. That’s why I wish Freefall could have been much better! I did NOT like the bleak & uncertain future of C&T...but I also wanted more of the other cast members, too. I also wished for more ‘Miami’, but didn’t get that either. I know fanfics are not canon but they do illustrate there are possibilities that weren't explored. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, wolfie1996 said: I don't agree that it ruined the character of Crockett as previous episodes had been hinting for a very long time back that some sort of crisis would happen to him. You could call the amnesia thing the equivalent of a nervous breakdown, which he was certainly heading for. By the way I never found it credible that people could actually not remember something because of an accident or injury till it happened to me ! No I didn't become a successful drug smuggler, unfortunately There might have been some hints that some crisis thing or burn out was going to happen, but once they turned him into a full blown, gun wielding, drug dealer, psycho killer, it basically destroyed the character of Crockett. Once they crossed that line there was no going back…yet they tried, and it was ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, wolfie1996 said: I know fanfics are not canon but they do illustrate there are possibilities that weren't explored. Definitely! It’s always fun to explore or create your own ideas for the show & characters! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillio Martin Imbasciati Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said: I don't agree that it ruined the character of Crockett as previous episodes had been hinting for a very long time back that some sort of crisis would happen to him. You could call the amnesia thing the equivalent of a nervous breakdown, which he was certainly heading for. By the way I never found it credible that people could actually not remember something because of an accident or injury till it happened to me ! No I didn't become a successful drug smuggler, unfortunately I see Crockett's turn as a nervous breakdown (I believe later dialogue referred to it as a "psychotic break"). I actually had a nervous breakdown in the late 1990's, and no, I didn't become a drug lord (what Crockett became was what he pretended to be for so long, it became real; absurd, but I like it). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie1996 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said: There might have been some hints that some crisis thing or burn out was going to happen, but once they turned him into a full blown, gun wielding, drug dealer, psycho killer, it basically destroyed the character of Crockett. Once they crossed that line there was no going back…yet they tried, and it was ridiculous! The thing is, though, people are complex and Crockett certainly was. It's why we like him! The implication was that he'd been affected also by constantly living undercover as a different persona and having to keep yourself in that mindset so you don't do anything out of character. Anyway, most people would kill given the right circumstances. It isn't an inbuilt thing that you'll remain law abiding whatever happens 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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