Episode #111 "Freefall"

[Adrian321]

3 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

I agree, the first two seasons are MV gold, for many reasons...the visuals by all means, but I think the plots & storylines were also better & more interesting/captivating. The combination of it all “made” the show! 

Season 3 was different...still kinda cool, but not as good as the previous two. It still had some good episodes, but more on the “ok/so-so” side...not as memorable or famous.

Season 4 really took a nose-dive into the bizarre or ridiculous “direction”...and really started the demise of the show. Season 5 basically seemed to go even below the bottom of the barrel & on into the ground...it seriously seemed to “give up” and went further into the ridiculous or even stupid plots. There still were some good episodes in those seasons...but they were sadly way too few & far between to help save the show.

I wanted so much for the show to get better and “come-back”...but it just couldn’t quite get there. The finale Freefall was just a huge let-down & disappointment...for a 2hr finale I think most expected & hoped for better. But it just wasn’t good...for the end, the plot was ridiculous, there was hardly any cast except C&T, hardly any ‘Miami’, and the end itself was just strange & sort of leaves you hanging & going...huh?? 

For the finale, I definitely think it should have had a better plot, taken place in Miami, and included the rest of the cast. My opinions, but I think shared by the majority of fans. We’re all fans & glad to have the show...but sometimes I don’t bother with Freefall when going through the series again...I’ve seen it enough times before. 

Well..... you can watch the first 2 seasons and say with confidence that you got a good taste of what Miami Vice is like. I even made a post about the pros and cons of each seasons in my view. There were a few meh episodes in S1 too, like Glades, The Maze,  Rites of passage, and even Lombard in my opinion and 2 really bad ones from S2 (French twist, Free verse). They weren't perfect, certainly, yet the most consistent, especially compared to S4 or 5.

Freefall is sort of those episodes you either love or hate. The prodigal son took place outside Miami too for the most part, yet I also give it a 10/10 in my book. Each episode has its cons and pros. And Freefall had many pros for the cons it had, and I counted them. And the fact that it is the finale of a show you love also plays part in how you rate an episode. Brother's keeper also has a special place for me, outside of its content, the simple fact that it was the beggining of a series I love.

[Adrian321]

8 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Except for Missing Hours & Cows of October, I think most episodes are better than Miracle Man & Leap of Faith.  But, I don’t agree with Freefall being that good. We all have our opinions, but to say “if you say it was bad is a big lie” is yours...and not necessarily true.

I think there are lots of fans who think it was not only disappointing but bad, & definitely bad for a 2hr finale. That’s why it was disappointing. After all, “disappointing” basically is a form of bad for a TV show and/or episode. But, again...we all have opinions on what episodes we like or don’t like. For those that do like Freefall...awesome! 

I define "bad" as unwatchable and forgettable or an episode that simply does not bring anything unique or good to watch. Freefall has unique moments, like the final fight scene, the last dialogue, the standoff, the credits montage, many explosions, many shootouts, a Testarossa chase,etc. It is not that bad. Dissapointing........ can be, in the way that it did not deliver enough for some fans. But it did deliver quite a few things that should set it up above "Bad" rating to a minimum of "watchable/ok". There are 5 types of ratings I give to MV episodes, great (between 9-10), good (around 8), ok/watchable (around 6-7), bad (less than 6, but more than 4) and very bad (less than 4).

Edited February 7, 2021 by Adrian321
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[ViceFanMan]

8 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

Well..... you can watch the first 2 seasons and say with confidence that you got a good taste of what Miami Vice is like. I even made a post about the pros and cons of each seasons in my view. There were a few meh episodes in S1 too, like Glades, The Maze,  Rites of passage, and even Lombard in my opinion and 2 really bad ones from S2 (French twist, Free verse). They weren't perfect, certainly, yet the most consistent, especially compared to S4 or 5.

Freefall is sort of those episodes you either love or hate. The prodigal son took place outside Miami too for the most part, yet I also give it a 10/10 in my book. Each episode has its cons and pros. And Freefall had many pros for the cons it had, and I counted them. And the fact that it is the finale of a show you love also plays part in how you rate an episode. Brother's keeper also has a special place for me, outside of its content, the simple fact that it was the beggining of a series I love.

There were “meh/so-so” episodes in every season, true. “Glades & Maze” were probably a couple from 1...although I like the old abandoned Blue Waters Hotel in “Maze” (I like exploring & photographing abandoned places). But that’s my own goofy thing with that episode.  I liked French Twist in 2...Free Verse wasn’t too bad, but not one of the more famous ones.

Some episodes did take place outside Miami...and it’s okay sometimes to do that or change things up. But, the majority were in or around the Miami area...and the 2hr finale definitely needed to & should have taken place there! 

1 minute ago, Adrian321 said:

I define "bad" as unwatchable and forgettable or an episode that simply does not bring anything unique or good to watch. Freefall has unique moments, like the final fight scene, the last dialogue, the standoff, the credits montage, many explosions, many shootouts, a Testarossa chase,etc. It is not that bad. Dissapointing........ can be, in the way that it did not deliver enough for some fans. But it did deliver quite a few things that should set it up above "Bad" rating to a minimum of "watchable/ok". There are 5 types of ratings I give to MV episodes, great (between 9-10), good (around 8), ok/watchable (around 6-7), bad (less than 5, but more than 4) and very bad (less than 4).

I view Freefall as bad...as it doesn’t bring anything unique or memorable. Shootouts, explosions, and car chases were a norm for MV...so fans needed a better plot & ending with & for the characters to go out on, than just those elements. It was bad because it was disappointing & did not deliver. It’s an episode that #1 could have been placed earlier in the season & not used as the series finale, and #2 was definitely not worthy of 2hrs. 

[Adrian321]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

There were “meh/so-so” episodes in every season, true. “Glades & Maze” were probably a couple from 1...although I like the old abandoned Blue Waters Hotel in “Maze” (I like exploring & photographing abandoned places). But that’s my own goofy thing with that episode.  I liked French Twist in 2...Free Verse wasn’t too bad, but not one of the more famous ones.

Some episodes did take place outside Miami...and it’s okay sometimes to do that or change things up. But, the majority were in or around the Miami area...and the 2hr finale definitely needed to & should have taken place there! 

I view Freefall as bad...as it doesn’t bring anything unique or memorable. Shootouts, explosions, and car chases were a norm for MV...so fans needed a better plot & ending with & for the characters to go out on, than just those elements. It was bad because it was disappointing & did not deliver. It’s an episode that #1 could have been placed earlier in the season & not used as the series finale, and #2 was definitely not worthy of 2hrs. 

Well...... we kinda have our minds made up already. We can't really change each other's opinion. Especially on Freefall. While the explosions were a norm and happened oftentimes before, this episode had MANY of them, compared to an average episode. The same thing about shootouts, many more than an average episode. So, while this aspect on itself wasn't unique it brought something we like about the show in. Though, it had some special scenes, like the final dialogue, the credits montage, the Testarossa beggining chase (S5 kinda lacked the Testarossa), the final fight scene, the standoff with the feds and Castillo's last staredown. Izzy also appeared one last time, and we got to see Stan's burnout too where he took all those goons by himself. The episode also contained quite a lot of music in it. 8 popular songs, while on average a S5 episode had 2.71 popular songs. Also, I find it very appropriate that the ending doesn't exactly tell us EVERYTHING and leaves things up to our imagination.And the burnout was inevitable.... It was foreshadowed back in Deliver us From Evil. The only criticism that I actually find valid for this episode is the fact that it was..... out of Miami for too long. This I can agree on with you, however this "lack" does not make the whole episode bad, as in my view it made up with the things it did have.

Free verse, French twist are put in my list along certain episodes like Missing hours, Leap of faith, Miracle man, The big thaw. I really hate them..... they kinda ruined S2. If it wasn't for these 2, Season 2 would be as consistent as Season 1, in the way that it does not have any "bad" episode.

Also, if the ending does not sattisfy you, how would've you created it ? I am very open to hearing what you think would have been better, however, try to make it fit the season 5 as an episode as much as possible.

[ViceFanMan]

11 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

Well...... we kinda have our minds made up already. We can't really change each other's opinion. Especially on Freefall. While the explosions were a norm and happened oftentimes before, this episode had MANY of them, compared to an average episode. The same thing about shootouts, many more than an average episode. So, while this aspect on itself wasn't unique it brought something we like about the show in. Though, it had some special scenes, like the final dialogue, the credits montage, the Testarossa beggining chase (S5 kinda lacked the Testarossa), the final fight scene, the standoff with the feds and Castillo's last staredown. Izzy also appeared one last time, and we got to see Stan's burnout too where he took all those goons by himself. The episode also contained quite a lot of music in it. 8 popular songs, while on average a S5 episode had 2.71 popular songs. Also, I find it very appropriate that the ending doesn't exactly tell us EVERYTHING and leaves things up to our imagination.And the burnout was inevitable.... It was foreshadowed back in Deliver us From Evil. The only criticism that I actually find valid for this episode is the fact that it was..... out of Miami for too long. This I can agree on with you, however this "lack" does not make the whole episode bad, as in my view it made up with the things it did have.

Free verse, French twist are put in my list along certain episodes like Missing hours, Leap of faith, Miracle man, The big thaw. I really hate them..... they kinda ruined S2. If it wasn't for these 2, Season 2 would be as consistent as Season 1, in the way that it does not have any "bad" episode.

Also, if the ending does not sattisfy you, how would've you created it ? I am very open to hearing what you think would have been better, however, try to make it fit the season 5 as an episode as much as possible.

You are probably right...we’re probably not going to change opinions.  I’ve “tried” to like Freefall over the years...but it just isn’t there. Despite how many shootouts or explosions, it needed more! It needed to include the rest of the cast (in more than barely cameo appearances) & like I’ve said, it definitely needed to take place in Miami. The characters needed better closure. 

As for exactly how the show could have ended...again I’m sure there’s tons of opinions on that from tons of fans!  But, I actually don’t think it should have been in “Season 5 style”...that style was the problem that basically destroyed the show! For the series finale, 2hrs no-less, I think one idea is they could have returned one last time to one of the more popular & famous storylines from towards the beginning...such as a one last Calderone or Lombard plot, but that involved the entire cast more (after all the very last scene is a throwback clip from the Pilot movie—the beginning). 

Even with a couple so-so episodes in Season 2...they’re not anywhere near the bad ones in 4-5. In my opinion there really isn’t a bad episode in Season 2–it’s my favorite overall. However, ironically my all time favorite episode/s specifically are in Season 1, which is my 2nd favorite season. I feel the start of 1 still had a few quirks to work or figure out...but about halfway through they really “got it”, and it continued on through even some of Season 3. 

[Robbie C.]

8 hours ago, Adrian321 said:

Well...... we kinda have our minds made up already. We can't really change each other's opinion. Especially on Freefall. While the explosions were a norm and happened oftentimes before, this episode had MANY of them, compared to an average episode. The same thing about shootouts, many more than an average episode. So, while this aspect on itself wasn't unique it brought something we like about the show in. Though, it had some special scenes, like the final dialogue, the credits montage, the Testarossa beggining chase (S5 kinda lacked the Testarossa), the final fight scene, the standoff with the feds and Castillo's last staredown. Izzy also appeared one last time, and we got to see Stan's burnout too where he took all those goons by himself. The episode also contained quite a lot of music in it. 8 popular songs, while on average a S5 episode had 2.71 popular songs. Also, I find it very appropriate that the ending doesn't exactly tell us EVERYTHING and leaves things up to our imagination.And the burnout was inevitable.... It was foreshadowed back in Deliver us From Evil. The only criticism that I actually find valid for this episode is the fact that it was..... out of Miami for too long. This I can agree on with you, however this "lack" does not make the whole episode bad, as in my view it made up with the things it did have.

Free verse, French twist are put in my list along certain episodes like Missing hours, Leap of faith, Miracle man, The big thaw. I really hate them..... they kinda ruined S2. If it wasn't for these 2, Season 2 would be as consistent as Season 1, in the way that it does not have any "bad" episode.

Also, if the ending does not sattisfy you, how would've you created it ? I am very open to hearing what you think would have been better, however, try to make it fit the season 5 as an episode as much as possible.

I would have ended it by bringing in some things I later used in my longer fan fiction. Vice had always toyed with the idea that you can't trust the Feds, and it was almost a mantra in season 5. I would have brought Maynard back, possibly working in conjunction with some of Lao Li's people who'd managed to avoid prison, and sent him after the team. A similar vibe to what you saw in Calderone's return, but with a much nastier edge because Government elements might be involved. Maybe they'd be lured in by starting to look at the ties Burnett was trying to forge with elements "south of the border" in conjunction with good ol' Cliff and then it would all kick off. You could work a good two-hour arc out of it, set mostly in Miami, and I think bring some closure to both the characters and a favorite villain from earlier seasons at the same time.

Obviously from a production side there are a lot of "ifs" in this particular plot. But I still think you could have pulled some interesting elements together. What if Glantz and Duddy got together to manufacture some evidence of corruption in OCB? Both had grudges to settle, and it could have turned into the whole "who can you trust" game Vice loved. I can think of some other characters (Robbie, for one) who could have come back in some way in either of those possible plot lines. They'd both have elements of the early seasons, but still be in keeping with the darker vibe of Season 5. I don't think you can turn the clock back on that...not without looking goofy as hell.

[Adrian321]

20 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

You are probably right...we’re probably not going to change opinions.  I’ve “tried” to like Freefall over the years...but it just isn’t there. Despite how many shootouts or explosions, it needed more! It needed to include the rest of the cast (in more than barely cameo appearances) & like I’ve said, it definitely needed to take place in Miami. The characters needed better closure. 

As for exactly how the show could have ended...again I’m sure there’s tons of opinions on that from tons of fans!  But, I actually don’t think it should have been in “Season 5 style”...that style was the problem that basically destroyed the show! For the series finale, 2hrs no-less, I think one idea is they could have returned one last time to one of the more popular & famous storylines from towards the beginning...such as a one last Calderone or Lombard plot, but that involved the entire cast more (after all the very last scene is a throwback clip from the Pilot movie—the beginning). 

Even with a couple so-so episodes in Season 2...they’re not anywhere near the bad ones in 4-5. In my opinion there really isn’t a bad episode in Season 2–it’s my favorite overall. However, ironically my all time favorite episode/s specifically are in Season 1, which is my 2nd favorite season. I feel the start of 1 still had a few quirks to work or figure out...but about halfway through they really “got it”, and it continued on through even some of Season 3. 

Season 5 pulled off some good content too, like The Burnett saga, Line of Fire, Fruit of the poison tree. I think it wasn't The problem That it was Sean 5ish in The Way That The dark athmosphere pulled of some gems too,before, like Shadow in The dark (S3). Due to it taking place a lot outside Miami, it invloved The cast less than it should have. A Lighter athmosphere would have deffinitely made The episode more "enjoyable". But The cast lack is also part of travelling to Costa Morada. However, Switek had a pretty good scene. Also, after all episodes Gina weakened, I am actually glad she was not present. Castillo also appeared a few times and gave one of his "staredowns" too. The credit montage does Take part of the episode, and while not dirrectly, it does show us some good moments, wherever they may Take place, S1, 2,3,4 or even 5, was also heartwarming, and also takes place with good music in The background. Can we both agree that the credit montage is a good part? 

And, S2 is less consistent than S1, since it has 2 bad episodes. S1 at worst had "meh" episodes. That is why I use the term "consistent". 

[ViceFanMan]

37 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

Season 5 pulled off some good content too, like The Burnett saga, Line of Fire, Fruit of the poison tree. I think it wasn't The problem That it was Sean 5ish in The Way That The dark athmosphere pulled of some gems too,before, like Shadow in The dark (S3). Due to it taking place a lot outside Miami, it invloved The cast less than it should have. A Lighter athmosphere would have deffinitely made The episode more "enjoyable". But The cast lack is also part of travelling to Costa Morada. However, Switek had a pretty good scene. Also, after all episodes Gina weakened, I am actually glad she was not present. Castillo also appeared a few times and gave one of his "staredowns" too. The credit montage does Take part of the episode, and while not dirrectly, it does show us some good moments, wherever they may Take place, S1, 2,3,4 or even 5, was also heartwarming, and also takes place with good music in The background. Can we both agree that the credit montage is a good part? 

And, S2 is less consistent than S1, since it has 2 bad episodes. S1 at worst had "meh" episodes. That is why I use the term "consistent". 

Season 5 had a couple-few good episodes “sprinkled” in...but I’m sorry, the ‘Burnett Saga’ was not one/s of them! Everyone has their opinions, so if you liked those 4 episodes (which were actually the last two of Season 4 & first two of Season 5), you probably won’t agree with this...but the ratings seriously plummeted during & with those episodes...the majority of fans did not like them. I myself don’t either...they were so bizarre, over-the-top ridiculous, completely unrealistic (even for MV), and they basically destroyed the character of Crockett. I think they were trying to go as “wild” as they could to try and bring back viewers/ratings...but it failed miserably. My opinions, but seem to be shared by a lot of fans.

As for Shadow in the Dark taking place outside Miami...I think it was in & around Miami...I don’t think they traveled much? But it was a superb episode & one based on a real-life case. 

I feel Season 2 was much more consistent than 1...they truly had the MV “formula” down by 2, and it showed throughout the entire season. Season 2 has no bad episodes...maybe a couple that were so-so, but no bad ones. The possible “bad” ones didn’t start until maybe Season 3. 4-5 were sadly bad with the majority of episodes...few good ones, but not enough. Season 1 got the show off the ground & it’s awesome too...but in the beginning they were still trying to figure things out. From the start of the season to even middle of the season things were very inconsistent. From the style of acting, characters, to even the theme & style of logo at the beginning. Season 2 is the best overall, in my opinion. But there are lots who like 1 best. 

[Adrian321]

7 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Season 5 had a couple-few good episodes “sprinkled” in...but I’m sorry, the ‘Burnett Saga’ was not one/s of them! Everyone has their opinions, so if you liked those 4 episodes (which were actually the last two of Season 4 & first two of Season 5), you probably won’t agree with this...but the ratings seriously plummeted during & with those episodes...the majority of fans did not like them. I myself don’t either...they were so bizarre, over-the-top ridiculous, completely unrealistic (even for MV), and they basically destroyed the character of Crockett. I think they were trying to go as “wild” as they could to try and bring back viewers/ratings...but it failed miserably. My opinions, but seem to be shared by a lot of fans.

As for Shadow in the Dark taking place outside Miami...I think it was in & around Miami...I don’t think they traveled much? But it was a superb episode & one based on a real-life case. 

I feel Season 2 was much more consistent than 1...they truly had the MV “formula” down by 2, and it showed throughout the entire season. Season 2 has no bad episodes...maybe a couple that were so-so, but no bad ones. The possible “bad” ones didn’t start until maybe Season 3. 4-5 were sadly bad with the majority of episodes...few good ones, but not enough. Season 1 got the show off the ground & it’s awesome too...but in the beginning they were still trying to figure things out. From the start of the season to even middle of the season things were very inconsistent. From the style of acting, characters, to even the theme & style of logo at the beginning. Season 2 is the best overall, in my opinion. But there are lots who like 1 best. 

The Burnett saga is almost 50/50 Among fans, and I personally enjoyed this part a lot. Was it wild? SURE. Does this alone make it bad, and outshines all The good parts it offered, probablly not (for me). Shadow in The dark was.... DARK, not That it took place out of Miami, but also good. I gave this as an example to make The Point That The darker athmosphere is not bad if used correctly. 

You wished for more moments with The cast in The Last episode. Well.... Stan had a Main scene, Castillo appeared a few Times and gave his staredown. Maybe The lack of Trudy is sort of dissapointing. But The lack of Gina actually makes me happy. She already weakened a few episodes That would have been good. **** you, Gina! 

I think THE MOST defining S2 episode was Definitely Miami. 4th place in my top MV episodes. While we can argue why S1 or 2 is better, I actually enjoyed The first one as a whole more than its succesor.  Brother's keeper, Hit list, Calderone's demisie, No exit,One Eyed Jack, Smuggler's blues, Evan are the best S1 episodes, and These are actually what set The series going.  Also, S1 does not have a single bad episode, while it counter part has (French twist and Free verse) which are horrible or at best, bad. 

[Tom]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Adrian321:

**** you, Gina! 

That is not the tone we use here on the forum. 

You are entitled to your own opinion about a show´s character you obviously find annoying, but maybe there is a normal, more grown up way of expressing yourself?

Edited February 8, 2021 by Tom

[ViceFanMan]

33 minutes ago, Adrian321 said:

The Burnett saga is almost 50/50 Among fans, and I personally enjoyed this part a lot. Was it wild? SURE. Does this alone make it bad, and outshines all The good parts it offered, probablly not (for me). Shadow in The dark was.... DARK, not That it took place out of Miami, but also good. I gave this as an example to make The Point That The darker athmosphere is not bad if used correctly. 

You wished for more moments with The cast in The Last episode. Well.... Stan had a Main scene, Castillo appeared a few Times and gave his staredown. Maybe The lack of Trudy is sort of dissapointing. But The lack of Gina actually makes me happy. She already weakened a few episodes That would have been good. **** you, Gina! 

I think THE MOST defining S2 episode was Definitely Miami. 4th place in my top MV episodes. While we can argue why S1 or 2 is better, I actually enjoyed The first one as a whole more than its succesor.  Brother's keeper, Hit list, Calderone's demisie, No exit,One Eyed Jack, Smuggler's blues, Evan are the best S1 episodes, and These are actually what set The series going.  Also, S1 does not have a single bad episode, while it counter part has (French twist and Free verse) which are horrible or at best, bad. 

There are fans who like the Burnett saga, yes...and that’s totally cool! But, from back when those episodes aired, and fans reaction/ratings at that time, to reactions now...I do not get 50-50. More like 80-20.  Those episodes did not go over well & sadly “helped” the further demise of the show. They were too dark, bizarre, ridiculous and “destructive”....even for MV. 

I still say Season 2 overall was the most consistent, had the best episodes (no actual bad ones), including Definitely Miami, and was just amazing! Season 1, as I said before, was awesome too...but it was more inconsistent & took the first half to really figure things out. But, by all means it had awesome episodes and some of the most memorable as well. This is more my opinion as there are lots of fans who like Season 1 best. I love both, but 2 is my favorite overall, then 1,3,4,&5. 

As for the cast and Freefall...the few “cameo” appearances of the rest of the cast was NOT good enough! I could not care less about Castillo’s stare-downs...I think we needed more from his character than that in the end. Stan’s ordeal with gambling was left hanging, and Gina & Trudy were all but forgotten. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb ViceFanMan:

There are fans who like the Burnett saga, yes...and that’s totally cool! But, from back when those episodes aired, and fans reaction/ratings at that time, to reactions now...I do not get 50-50. More like 80-20.  Those episodes did not go over well & sadly “helped” the further demise of the show. They were too dark, bizarre, and “destructive”....even for MV. 

I still say Season 2 overall was the most consistent, had the best episodes (no actual bad ones), including Definitely Miami, and was just amazing! Season 1, as I said before, was awesome too...but it was more inconsistent & took the first half to really figure things out. But, by all means it had awesome episodes and some of the most memorable as well. This is more my opinion as there are lots of fans who like Season 1 best. I love both, but 2 is my favorite overall, then 1,3,4,&5. 

As for the cast and Freefall...the few “cameo” appearances of the rest of the cast was NOT good enough! I could not care less about Castillo’s stare-downs...I think we needed more from his character than that in the end. Stan’s ordeal with gambling was left hanging, and Gina & Trudy were all but forgotten. 

If we try to find the biggest common denominator of fan opinions on Freefall, then it´s possibly (PRO) classic smuggler´s blues like storyline with some great references to the pilot (music car drive, same place to shoot down the plane where they had to watch Calderone escape, ...) and (CON) no full conclusion on most lead roles.

I once wrote before that despite all justified critiscism on Freefall we have to be happy that we got a finale at all. That was not common back then with many other TS shows where the final episode was just an ordinary episode without any conclusion at all...

For me, the finale is a mixed bag as described above. And criticizing the finale for the absence of many characters is more than just a sentimental approach to it. VICE was a great show, but in hindsight one of its biggest mistakes was a sort of complete ignorance to many main characters that stood in complete contradiction to the importance of team work that was conveyed in many episodes, especially very late in season 4 and 5 (Crockett on Castillo´s bed in Miami Squeeze telling him that he is the glue keeping the team together, Bullet for Crockett, ...). The reason why John Diehl left the show is the best proof to that. He did not leave for being not busy enough (what was there to expect?), but there was ZERO character development on Zito PLUS no screen time AND he had an exclusive contract and was not allowed to do something else! Switek later at least got some character development in season5 as a gambler.

Thus, for me, it is completely insane that they did a 2 hour finale and left Trudy, Gina and Castillo with NO role at all in the finale (Gina and Trudy just had a non speaking extra like part in the safe house). Castillo´s part is virtually zero except the one OCB scene where he suspends Switek and the last line where they throw their badges.  After 5+ years working together, it is just a violation of Crockett´s and Tubbs´character to let them just disappear (Crockett from Gina, for example after he wanted her OK for his marriage with Caitlin in episode 75). I don´t necessarily mean a cheesy tear droppiing hugging experience, but at least some kind of short and final (implicit) explanation why the left the most important people in their lives silently and how they dealt with it. But leaving their lives and their team without a word just because some wacko DEA general threatened them was the final chapter 11 for character development in the best TV series ever.

[ViceFanMan]

33 minutes ago, Tom said:

If we try to find the biggest common denominator of fan opinions on Freefall, then it´s possibly (PRO) classic smuggler´s blues like storyline with some great references to the pilot (music car drive, same place to shoot down the plane where they had to watch Calderone escape, ...) and (CON) no full conclusion on most lead roles.

I once wrote before that despite all justified critiscism on Freefall we have to be happy that we got a finale at all. That was not common back then with many other TS shows where the final episode was just an ordinary episode without any conclusion at all...

For me, the finale is a mixed bag as described above. And criticizing the finale for the absence of many characters is more than just a sentimental approach to it. VICE was a great show, but in hindsight one of its biggest mistakes was a sort of complete ignorance to many main characters that stood in complete contradiction to the importance of team work that was conveyed in many episodes, especially very late in season 4 and 5 (Crockett on Castillo´s bed in Miami Squeeze telling him that he is the glue keeping the team together, Bullet for Crockett, ...). The reason why John Diehl left the show is the best proof to that. He did not leave for being not busy enough (what was there to expect?), but there was ZERO character development on Zito PLUS no screen time AND he had an exclusive contract and was not allowed to do something else! Switek later at least got some character development in season5 as a gambler.

Thus, for me, it is completely insane that they did a 2 hour finale and left Trudy, Gina and Castillo with NO role at all in the finale (Gina and Trudy just had a non speaking extra like part in the safe house). Castillo´s part is virtually zero except the one OCB scene where he suspends Switek and the last line where they throw their badges.  After 5+ years working together, it is just a violation of Crockett´s and Tubbs´character to let them just disappear (Crockett from Gina, for example after he wanted her OK for his marriage with Caitlin in episode 75). I don´t necessarily mean a cheesy tear droppiing hugging experience, but at least some kind of short and final (implicit) explanation why the left the most important people in their lives silently and how they dealt with it. But leaving their lives and their team without a word just because some wacko DEA general threatened them was the final chapter 11 for character development in the best TV series ever.

Well, I definitely do NOT get a “Smuggler’s Blues” vibe in Freefall (Smuggler’s could have been saved & used for the finale instead), but that’s me. 

Agree about the lack of characters & characterization...sometimes throughout the show (although at times it seems they tried to do better with some character depth), but definitely in the series finale. 

I think it’s cool they did a 2hr finale (just wish it could have been way better) back then, as a lot of TV shows didn’t always get a feature-length one. But, there were some popular TV shows at the time, and even well before MV, that knew they’d been cancelled and did a finale episode of some kind...even if just a standard 1hr one. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Tom]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan:

Well, I definitely do NOT get a “Smuggler’s Blues” vibe in Freefall (Smuggler’s could have been saved & used for the finale instead), but that’s me. 

 

The "please go under as a bait to South America for us, because you are not on our employment list and bring us something/someone back to Miami..." is a clear reference to Smuggler´s blues and probably the first idea when they developed the plot. But I agree it had not the real SB "vibe" to it.

[ViceFanMan]

7 minutes ago, Tom said:

The "please go under as a bait to South America for us, because you are not on our employment list and bring us something/someone back to Miami..." is a clear reference to Smuggler´s blues and probably the first idea when they developed the plot. But I agree it had not the real SB "vibe" to it.

True, somewhat the same idea of “bait” in South America was somewhat the same as “Smuggler’s”...but, yeah the vibe or feel of Freefall, how the plot was carried out, and what they did with the characters (or lack thereof) was definitely not the same!

I’m glad “Smuggler’s” was where it’s at in the show...but something like it and/or how it was done could have been used as the finale. What could have “saved” Freefall, and in my opinion made it more ‘watchable’, was if they’d of done a reunion of some kind in say the mid 90s (maybe even early 2000s)...give ALL the characters true closure & have a better ending. But, it is what it is/was.  

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb ViceFanMan:

True, somewhat the same idea of “bait” in South America was somewhat the same as “Smuggler’s”...but, yeah the vibe or feel of Freefall, how the plot was carried out, and what they did with the characters (or lack thereof) was definitely not the same!

I’m glad “Smuggler’s” was where it’s at in the show...but something like it and/or how it was done could have been used as the finale. What could have “saved” Freefall, and in my opinion made it more ‘watchable’, was if they’d of done a reunion of some kind in say the mid 90s (maybe even early 2000s)...give ALL the characters true closure & have a better ending. But, it is what it is/was.  

Prodigal Son was built on the same idea, but just with NYC instead of South America 

[sdiegolo78]

On 2/12/2012 at 12:40 PM, Joey Hardin said:

I got a question;Why Crockett&Tubbs quit the VICE Team? a brief summary please..

Frustration got the best of them. They had a stand off with Colonel Baker from DEA who threaten to take their badges and kill them. At that point the duo throw their badges. That wasn't the only reason as the still recent events we saw unfold between the end of S4 and throughout S5 lead the main characters (especially Crockett) to leave the force. 

[sdiegolo78]

2 hours ago, Adrian321 said:

Also, S1 does not have a single bad episode, while it counter part has (French twist and Free verse) which are horrible or at best, bad. 

I'd say these are filler episodes

[ViceFanMan]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

Prodigal Son was built on the same idea, but just with NYC instead of South America 

True! I don’t love “Prodigal” like some do & I don’t think was worthy of 2hrs, but it had awesome music!  But, yes it had the same idea of undercover/bait in a different location than Miami. 

[ViceFanMan]

11 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Frustration got the best of them. They had a stand off with Colonel Baker from DEA who threaten to take their badges and kill them. At that point the duo throw their badges. That wasn't the only reason as the still recent events we saw unfold between the end of S4 and throughout S5 lead the main characters (especially Crockett) to leave the force. 

True, frustration was a big part of the burn out...but the ending still needed to be done way better. 

6 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I'd say these are filler episodes

I think French Twist was pretty good...I like that one! But Free Verse could probably be considered a “filler”...but it still was not a bad episode. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[sdiegolo78]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

True, frustration was a big part of the burn out...but the ending still needed to be done way better. 

I agree 100% with the ending...pretty abrupt. I'd love to write some fan fiction about the aftermath after Sonny and Rico split...

[Dadrian]

5 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I agree 100% with the ending...pretty abrupt. I'd love to write some fan fiction about the aftermath after Sonny and Rico split...

Tell him, @Robbie C.! 

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I agree 100% with the ending...pretty abrupt. I'd love to write some fan fiction about the aftermath after Sonny and Rico split...

Yeah...too abrupt...just sort of leaves you hanging & there is no real ending or closure, for any of the characters. Should have been handled way better!

Fan-fiction is always fun (especially when it’s our own), and it’s cool to sometimes create our endings or “continuations” to characters/storylines.  But, we always gotta remember...it is just “fiction”, didn’t really happen in the show & isn’t MV-canon so-to-speak...or whatever show you’ve done a fanfic about. 

[sdiegolo78]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

Fan-fiction is always fun (especially when it’s our own), and it’s cool to sometimes create our endings or “continuations” to characters/storylines.  But, we always gotta remember...it is just “fiction”, didn’t really happen in the show & isn’t MV-canon so-to-speak...or whatever show you’ve done a fanfic about. 

I just started reading Robbie's fan fiction 'Task force' (set after the Freefall events) and I'm really liking it! My own fiction would take place in the early to mid 90s with Crockett this time going to NY where he reunite with Tubbs...in a similar fashion to what a rumored TV reunion would have been had it taken place.

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I just started reading Robbie's fan fiction 'Task force' (set after the Freefall events) and I'm really liking it! My own fiction would take place in the early to mid 90s with Crockett this time going to NY where he reunite with Tubbs...in a similar fashion to what a rumored TV reunion would have been had it taken place.

Your idea sounds good & mid 90s would have been the prime-time to have done a reunion if one had taken place.  But...after reuniting with Tubbs in NY, they gotta end up back in Miami somehow, lol!