Miami Miscellaneous

[Tom]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres:

I cannot readily find history of this hospital online, but folks inside told me that the original owner/builder wanted it exactly to feel like a luxury hotel, and it really does. It has a chapel, a koi pond, and a jelly fish aquarium (don't have a photo of the latter, was kicked out of that lobby quickly as a non-patient). 

It's Baptist on Kendall, let me know if you know anything about it.

This hospital was used once in the series, as location in season 5 (Miami Squeeze) when Castillo got shot. They filmed inside the Miami Cardiac and Vascular Institute Building which is on the southern part of the compound (see red arrow in pic below, they filmed on the west-side of the building, see details in Miami Squeeze location thread). This institute was opened on 1 October 1987 and the building has been massively remodelled/extended for a 9-figure amount since. It was also used in the movie Cocoon II in 1988 and has a very modern VICE/glass brick wall look at the time.

 

 

 

[Paul Veres]

10 hours ago, airtommy said:

Beautiful!  The Biltmore of hospitals.

Actually the palm lined approach to the hotel (not in my photos) reminds me of the Breakers hotel in Palm Beach.

[Paul Veres]

5 hours ago, Tom said:

This hospital was used once in the series, as location in season 5 (Miami Squeeze) when Castillo got shot. They filmed inside the Miami Cardiac and Vascular Institute Building which is on the southern part of the compound (see red arrow in pic below, they filmed on the west-side of the building, see details in Miami Squeeze location thread). This institute was opened on 1 October 1987 and the building has been massively remodelled/extended for a 9-figure amount since. It was also used in the movie Cocoon II in 1988 and has a very modern VICE/glass brick wall look at the time.

 

 

 

Yeah it's still being expanded - the Miami Cancer Institute (top right of your frame) is just few years old I was told. That's where the koi pond is, outside, and the jelly fish tank inside. 

 

[jpaul1]

@Paul Veres: cool pics. the corniche is definitely a car i'd like for Miami roaning. idk if old rolls are still cheap like they were a few decades ago

@pahonu: the book i bought is pure mediterranean interiors. and has nothing to do with american style. so i'm going to buy your first book. even though second hands are now priced 40€ which i consider a bit expensive for a second hand. still far from DJ bio second hands though, which can't be found under 140€ . but i'm gonna buy it, because i need it

[pahonu]

4 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

@Paul Veres: cool pics. the corniche is definitely a car i'd like for Miami roaning. idk if old rolls are still cheap like they were a few decades ago

@pahonu: the book i bought is pure mediterranean interiors. and has nothing to do with american style. so i'm going to buy your first book. even though second hands are now priced 40€ which i consider a bit expensive for a second hand. still far from DJ bio second hands though, which can't be found under 140€ . but i'm gonna buy it, because i need it

It’s an excellent book.  

These kind of architecture books often rise to incredible prices once they are out of print and before they fall out of copyright.  I was aware over 15 years ago of that book on French architecture I shared. I was interested after seeing it in a bibliography of another architecture book that I have. I went looking for used copies and they were hundreds of dollars!  Then it fell out of copyright and I got the paperback for less than $10.  

I’ve actually looked at the prices of several in my collection and the used prices are over $100 on a few.  One was asking almost $200!  I joked to my wife that if I sold a specific eight books from my collection, I could make a thousand bucks, having spent probably less than $200.  She didn’t believe me at first, but it’s true.  

One in particular, I bought probably 15+ years ago in the gift shop at an actual house-museum in Santa Barbara designed by GW Smith.  It was about him and was asking close to $200 for the handful available, some were asking for more.  I think I paid about $20-25 at the time it was new.  Then they issued a reprint and the prices plummeted, though they are climbing again.  I just looked and it’s at about $80 for used, now that the reprint sold out.

Bottom line, I would say, is buy it sooner than later as it probably won’t decline in price… unless you want to wait for a possible reprint.

Edited November 10, 2023 by pahonu

[jpaul1]

yeah i just bought it 40€. my only concern is that it's in the UK. and sometimes the postman asks me for customs fees. now that the UK is out the EU. but well i still bought it,  as as you said prices can only increase

speculations can be caused by professional book hunters too. for example the DJ bio i mentioned is rarely under 100€, and when a copy goes under that, you don't even have the time to purchase. when you go to the seller (using book search engines) the book has miraculously been purchased. professionnals create alerts and buy books like 'hunters'. the sadest in that story it's that once i found a copy of that book for 30€, but the book never arrived (from the US). only God knows where it ended. i've been looking at that book for something like 2 years now, no joke. and it's the only book that gave me such hard time. but well let's not desesperate like one says

Edited November 11, 2023 by jpaul1

[Paul Veres]

Quiz - what/where is this building? I actually do not know. This picture was on the wall at that Baptist hospital next to photos of some Miami places, so I figured it must be nearby too.

[Tom]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Paul Veres:

Quiz - what/where is this building? I actually do not know. This picture was on the wall at that Baptist hospital next to photos of some Miami places, so I figured it must be nearby too.

It‘s the Key Biscayne Yacht Club

 

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/35080

[pahonu]

38 minutes ago, Paul Veres said:

Quiz - what/where is this building? I actually do not know. This picture was on the wall at that Baptist hospital next to photos of some Miami places, so I figured it must be nearby too.

Beautiful structure!  It appears to be an example of Mediterranean Revival architecture, more than Spanish Colonial Revival or Italian Revival.  All were popular at the time and in that place.  Italian Revival would definitely have had large roof overhangs like 42 Star Island had, and Spanish Colonial Revival would never have been so symmetrical or used such formal orders under the arches.

[Paul Veres]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:54 PM, Tom said:

It‘s the Key Biscayne Yacht Club

 

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/35080

Is it not there anymore?

[Paul Veres]

On 11/14/2023 at 8:19 PM, pahonu said:

Beautiful structure!  It appears to be an example of Mediterranean Revival architecture, more than Spanish Colonial Revival or Italian Revival.  All were popular at the time and in that place.  Italian Revival would definitely have had large roof overhangs like 42 Star Island had, and Spanish Colonial Revival would never have been so symmetrical or used such formal orders under the arches.

That's very interesting. Do you know a good article that discusses all the differences between the 3, with photo examples?

[Tom]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres:

Is it not there anymore?

Not that I know of. I was around in KB and have never seen it.

The building on the old picture is of April 1926. The Biscayne Yacht Club is now located at 180 Harbor Drive and was founded on 3 Feb 1955. The building looks different and much newer. Thus my conclusion is the historic building is long gone.

 

[pahonu]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:14 PM, Paul Veres said:

That's very interesting. Do you know a good article that discusses all the differences between the 3, with photo examples?

I don’t have a single article, but the following recommends four books, all of which I have.  The first is the most comprehensive, including drawings and photos describing styles from all of American history.  The first part of the 20th century is often referred to as the eclectic period, which was when the styles I commented on were popular.  It was a time of widely varying styles that were very accurate stylistically to historic styles, hence the “revival” in many of their titles.  Earlier, were more loosely interpreted designs of historical styles, and later modernism prevailed.

Sorry, I didn’t add the link before. 
 

https://oldhistorichouses.com/4-of-the-best-books-about-american-home-styles/

Edited November 20, 2023 by pahonu

[Paul Veres]

Couldn't find the dedicated The Maze page so let me put it here.

While the Blue Waters Hotel has been long gone to give way to the St. Tropez Ocean tower, there were two other buildings featured near it in The Maze, where the police was staking out, to the left and right of detective Duryea below:

They've been closed and decrepit for a while. Here is a similar shot as the latest from Google Maps:

I was on location yesterday and they are no longer accessible, fenced out by developer fence, awaiting demolition. 

To step back, I really love this North Beach rectangle:

A bit sentimental for me because I stayed few times at the Days Inn hotel there on the corner of 75th (now the Broadmore). But to be objective, this is the only place in Miami Beach (I think) where you can walk from the beach to a variety of very affordable food places. We're even talking a decent meal under $10 kind of food place, or a cafecito under $2. AND as well a large beach shop to grab some beach supplies if you forgot anything. AND a Walgreens where you can even pick up groceries. AND a large park to the north you can walk in if you're tired of just the promenade. AND volleyball courts to the south. And of course few bars. All a couple of blocks away from the beach. Seriously. And the tourist crowd is actually nice. 

Anyway, so they broke ground on the new Ocean Terrace condo-hotel-retail complex last month, and here are these two buildings and the parking lot area yesterday:

Broken up pastel yellow wall that ran along the promenade (some still stands, to the left of the machinery):

One of the two buildings, former Ocean Terrace Hotel:

I don't believe the following mustard color building was in the show, but it's a similarly dilapidated structure today:

All in all, this is what will go, including the road/parking lot upfront on the Ocean Terrace:

The good news is the Broadmore and the adjacent Ocean Surf are staying. They are art deco and in decent shape (the former recently underwent some repairs and was in Bad Boys For Life - see that fight scene here). 

Another good news is that the public greenspace they are planning instead of that road/parking lot (which I believe was part of the deal with the city to get the overall project approved) will come to life first, before they will build the condo-hotel-retail complex behind it. It's 5 acres of streetscaping which will cost $15M to create. The guy doing it has last name Jungles, so it's gotta be lush. Check his other work here. Here is a future view south with the Broadmore on the right (as is also prominently shown on the developer fencing in an image above):

I love that lily fountain, hopefully that can materialize as advertised.

Vs what I saw yesterday (and ain't that girl definitely Miami):

The overall project is this: before and a render of the after:

The tall one facing Ocean Terrace is 20 floors with 75 residences, and the shorter one on Collins is 11 floors with 127 hotel units.

And this will be the view from Collins, going north:

Overall I'm not mad, except I wish they would drape that parking podium a little better, unless that green is actual live vegetation. The project is stated to be in MiMo style.

There are a lot of small cafes on that stretch of Collins, some I will miss more than others, though there is also a pretty high business turnover there as far as I can monitor, so it doesn't seem to be a great place for business anyway, and maybe this fundamental redevelopment will help (not sure if prices will stay as affordable though). Guess too bad that corner joint Burger & Shakes will be presumably gone:

Beer is cold and misters are misting - what else do you need 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Paul Veres

[Tom]

@Paul Veresthere is extensive coverage of the Ocean Terrace Apt Hotel and its neighbor building in the The Maze location thread 

Sad to see more landmarks go, but I guess the developers will replace all historic buildings that have character with more soulless condo lookalikes until the whole beach is fully crammed. 

[pahonu]

It seems that the historic structures that have actually been maintained over the decades are remaining.  The pedestrian mall is also a good idea, I think.  Rents and prices will certainly go up.  It’s the nature of gentrification in its most basic economic sense.  It seems like a reasonable solution to a spot that has significantly fallen into disrepair.  I’m very interested to see what is done in terms of design to mitigate sea level rise.  Here’s a very thorough article about the problems they face.  https://www.vox.com/climate/23872640/coastal-climate-ocean-rising-miami-florida-building

[Paul Veres]

11 hours ago, Tom said:

@Paul Veresthere is extensive coverage of the Ocean Terrace Apt Hotel and its neighbor building in the The Maze location thread 

Sad to see more landmarks go, but I guess the developers will replace all historic buildings that have character with more soulless condo lookalikes until the whole beach is fully crammed. 

Huh, thanks Tom, my bad, for some reason when I did a search across the website for "Maze" those pages weren't coming up in results, though they do now... well, I wished I posted this update there and not here, but I guess at this point just better leave it here since it's already followed by responses to it...

[Paul Veres]

1 hour ago, pahonu said:

It seems that the historic structures that have actually been maintained over the decades are remaining.  The pedestrian mall is also a good idea, I think.  Rents and prices will certainly go up.  It’s the nature of gentrification in its most basic economic sense.  It seems like a reasonable solution to a spot that has significantly fallen into disrepair.  I’m very interested to see what is done in terms of design to mitigate sea level rise.  Here’s a very thorough article about the problems they face.  https://www.vox.com/climate/23872640/coastal-climate-ocean-rising-miami-florida-building

I think in this particular case the proposed complex is a welcome enhancement generally. IF somebody restored those old small buildings that'd be good, though they carry more nostalgic/vibe value than architectural (unlike the Broadmore and Ocean Surf which are more significant and will remain). But it would take public money because in 2023 who wants to have this few units in a coveted area like that, no city-developer partnership could have originated for this, sadly or not. As for the parking, I just hope that the planned aquatic center across the intersection will have a parking garage to offset this loss.

[Paul Veres]

1 hour ago, pahonu said:

It seems that the historic structures that have actually been maintained over the decades are remaining.  The pedestrian mall is also a good idea, I think.  Rents and prices will certainly go up.  It’s the nature of gentrification in its most basic economic sense.  It seems like a reasonable solution to a spot that has significantly fallen into disrepair.  I’m very interested to see what is done in terms of design to mitigate sea level rise.  Here’s a very thorough article about the problems they face.  https://www.vox.com/climate/23872640/coastal-climate-ocean-rising-miami-florida-building

Nice article, love the detail on buildings construction.

Have to point out the author doesn't know the difference between Brickell and Downtown. Waldorf Astoria is being built in Downtown, not Brickell. And the photo including 1000 Museum is also in Downtown, not Brickell. 

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Paul Veres said:

Nice article, love the detail on buildings construction.

Have to point out the author doesn't know the difference between Brickell and Downtown. Waldorf Astoria is being built in Downtown, not Brickell. And the photo including 1000 Museum is also in Downtown, not Brickell. 

I found the construction details interesting too.  The increasingly wet and subsiding soil being asked to support higher and higher structures doesn’t bode well.  Living at the coast myself in Southern California, though not at the extremely low level of Miami Beach (4 feet!), I am keenly interested in the rising sea level.  I see the King Tide flooding in Miami with some anxiety.  
 

In the almost 25 years we have lived in our current marina condo in Long Beach, I have witnessed first hand the more frequent dampness and puddling in our subterranean parking garage.  It didn’t happen at all when we moved in back in the late 90’s.  Now, when King Tides happen, water seeps up through the concrete floor and creates puddles.  It’s not as severe as the occurrences in Miami, but it is increasing in occurrence similarly. 

[airtommy]

Terrible that they're taking away Ocean Terrace.

[pahonu]

10 hours ago, airtommy said:

Terrible that they're taking away Ocean Terrace.

It does look like a cool building.  I always like to add some comments into these conversations when buildings are demolished.  Very often the new developers face all or most of the public’s criticism.  I am a very big supporter of historical designation and protection, but that doesn’t seem to have been done here, given the dilapidated state of some of the structures.  I think it isn’t fair for the public to focus their criticism only on the new developers.  
 

It is also a failure of others, including ourselves, for not demanding protection from our leadership, and even more the responsibility of previous owners to maintain the structures.  Allowing historic buildings to fall into such disrepair is a failure of stewardship of owners.  Sadly, the concept of “stewardship” isn’t very popular here in the US.  Private ownership rights seem to always come out ahead.  Just some thoughts.

[Paul Veres]

I'll side with @pahonu. Often, without grass root activism "the invisible hand" of market forces will do away with what doesn't create most value in the area when the object in question is not that valuable for everybody. 

In fact, it's good to first try and be honest with yourself - is any particular building worth mourning because it really has a historical/cultural/architectural value, or does its demise make us sad only because humans like to lament things that go as it is another reminder of our own mortality? Sort of like we think the good old days were better because we were feeling better (were younger). Don't take me wrong @airtommy but is there any new construction in Miami that you do like? I wouldn't say that somebody is "taking away Ocean Terrace". It's been gone for a long time, a shell, they are just taking it off the life support because there is no reviving it. And again, was that building even that great...

We have to compromise. A great example, in my opinion, is the Faena district. Actually that's not even a compromise, it just mostly replaced semi-empty parking lots, and almost anything is better than bare hot asphalt. But look at what they are doing within it next. 

This is the Versailles hotel which has been closed, I believe, since 2013:

The left part is the original built in the 1940s, and the right part is an addition from the 1950s. The original is clearly much more architecturally interesting, including the well-recognizable cupola at the top. But how important really is the right part? Hospital barracks!

The developers (Swiss Aman Resorts led by a Russian billionaire, the same guy who is behind Missoni Baia, 830 Brickell, and Una, all great looking skyscrapers) are building the following on the adjacent parking lot and instead of the right part of Versailles, while also restoring the left part of Versailles:

It looks great - original while still fitting into the fabric of Mid Beach. And don't worry about that great Apollo mosaic on the 1950s extension - they are restoring it and moving to another location in Miami Beach.

This is an example of the best realistic scenario of building the future while respecting the past that we can get.

[airtommy]

To clarify:  I'm upset that they are taking away the street itself.   There is a huge amount of pedestrian space there, so there's no need for more.

I also wish they wouldn't put tall buildings there.

[pahonu]

13 hours ago, Paul Veres said:

I'll side with @pahonu. Often, without grass root activism "the invisible hand" of market forces will do away with what doesn't create most value in the area when the object in question is not that valuable for everybody. 

In fact, it's good to first try and be honest with yourself - is any particular building worth mourning because it really has a historical/cultural/architectural value, or does its demise make us sad only because humans like to lament things that go as it is another reminder of our own mortality? Sort of like we think the good old days were better because we were feeling better (were younger). Don't take me wrong @airtommy but is there any new construction in Miami that you do like? I wouldn't say that somebody is "taking away Ocean Terrace". It's been gone for a long time, a shell, they are just taking it off the life support because there is no reviving it. And again, was that building even that great...

Very eloquently stated.  It’s typically a variety of things over time that lead to these historic structures falling into such disrepair, very little if any, the fault of the new developer, yet they face most of the criticism.  I have been following these stories of gentrification and the preservation, or loss, of historic structures for more than 25 years.  

As a part time US History professor, and full time high school social studies teacher in an Architecture Academy, I have studied and visited many of these places over the years with my students.  I have come to learn that most people take no interest in the topic until it personally affects them or their sense of history.  Then come the diatribes and the blaming and the anger, but it is realistically, often too late.  For every victory in preserving a historic structure, it seems there are many more losses, sadly.  

I’m thinking of several losses over the last decade or so, beyond 42 Star Island by Walter DeGarmo, that many are so familiar with here.  That was very much an example of an owner allowing a property to fall into disrepair, then claiming it was beyond help.  

Something similar was done by Steve Jobs to the historic Jackling House by architect GW Smith.  It was torn down and he then died, with the lot left empty.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackling_House

There’s also the Loring House.

https://buildingsofnewengland.com/2021/01/28/charles-g-loring-house-1881/

Also, my very avatar name Pahonu.

https://historichawaii.org/2018/04/04/iconic-home-used-for-magnum-pi-tv-show-demolished/