The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[Kavinsky]

hmm one of the coupes, a post 1968 model because of the headlight covers instead of the plexyglass with a red and black interior, what was the price?normally the coupes go from anywhere between 150 - 300k, spyder conversions about the same, maybe about 350, its the legit spyders like the one that one of the fords own that went for a million and 100k, a yellow and black one but the prices have been dropping reciently.

[alleycat]

It was a 1973 and there was a bid for $325,000 but it failed since the person who was selling the car wanted more than that for it.Heres the details of it.A bit pricey for me,Its a beauty thoughLot Number: 352 Auction: ORANGE COUNTY 2011 Status: RESERVE NOT MET Sale Type: RESERVE Price: $0.00 Year: 1973 Make: FERRARI Model: 365 GTB/4 Style: BERLINETTA COUPE VIN: 16889 Exterior Color: RED Interior Color: RED/BLACK Cylinders: 12 Engine Size: 4.4 Transmission: 4-SPEED MANUAL Summary: USA Production 1973 Ferrari Daytona 365 GTB/4 Berlinetta featuring a 4.4 liter, 4-cam, 352 base hp, 173 mph screamer. This car has all books, records and warranty cards in the original wrappers in the factory pouch. Details: Offered is a rare opportunity to own a USA Production 1973 Ferrari Daytona 365 GTB/4 Berlinetta. This was Maranello's answer to Lamborghini's Miura and Maserati's Ghibli featuring a 4.4 liter, 4-cam, 352 base hp, 173 mph screamer. This car has all books, records and warranty cards in the original wrappers in the factory pouch and has been to many events winning numerous awards.[ATTACH=CONFIG]4267[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]4264[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]4266[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]4265[/ATTACH]

[Kavinsky]

Ah thats why the reserve was so high, probably another one of those people who only bought the thing as a collectors piece rather than a car, hence the paperwork with some of it still in its original factory packaging.I'd wager its probably got less that 15,000 miles on it and to be honest I'd rather drive one that's been used and above 20,000 with that age than one of those just for the fact that because its never been really driven it probably needs abit of work to work right, since water and oil when there not moving over time turn into sludge, rust and degrade engine seals and other things, unless the entire car was just recommisioned and had all of that work done already.and people seem to think cars are infallible, even when they havent used them for quite some time and mix that in with the fact that its a ferrari and people usually abuse them and put there foot into it before its had a chance to warm up and now you know why ferrari's got the reputation they have now for relaibilty, its not the cars fault its the owners most of the time.it is a beauty though, didnt know it had dark red paint which looks a hell of alot better than that normal ferrari red they always use and with a matching dark red interior, whoever ordered that thing had taste ill say that much.

[alleycat]

Would you believe when they presented this car the commentaries of speed said this is not the cobbled up corvette to look like a daytona which was on Miami vice.We already knew that but I still luv the daytona from Miami vice.We can't all afford the ferrai model.I like the daytona model from Miami.There will always be commentaries and there short tongues.Don't get me wrong the ferrai is a beauty but I Still like the black beauty instead.

[Kavinsky]

It's one of those things with the whole replica vs the real thing debates where the more you try and imitate something with something that isnt close to the actual article the worse it typically looks, the MV daytona after all looked as good as it was because it didnt try to straight imitate the actual thing and took some liberties with it with the mirrors, spinners, door handles, fender flares, interior and lights and was all the better for it and because of that it became something unique and so interesting that just like the Bren Ten people still remember it fondly NEARLY 30 years latterunlike the Testarossawhich was just a rebodied version of the Ferrari 365/512 BB (kind of a funny parallel there actually, a rebodied corvette and a rebodied ferrari)http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4309&stc=1&d=1310277484 that Crockett actually drove in the pepsi comercial in 85'

along with a rented black ferrari 328 in one of the episodes, but thats not pertinent to the discussionI mean some of the replicas I've seen that try to straight replicate the car have come off as ugly looking as possibile even thought technically there pretty close to the real thing in the details http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg6eNOP5DGwalthough on that one its more the fact that he used a C4 vette has a base than the C3 and frankly I dislike that metal dashboard that that replica hashttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1PJnpUP48&feature=relatedthats straight off of the real one:and how the hell would I use the radio on the real one?Basically its best to treat them as seperate entinties, both good and bad in there own ways and after all imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.basically just look at the daytona replica as the american version of the Maserati Ghibli, just a hell of alot better looking and easier to live with and it doesnt cost an arm and a leg to live with it unlike a Ferrari or a Maseratihttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4310&stc=1&d=1310278513Or an old school hybrid (amercian engine, european body) like these cars.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso_Grifohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monteverdi_High_Speedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeTomaso_Panterahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Cobra

[Sonny-Burnett]

Brought the Daytona to a new mechanic about a week ago and he re-tuned the carburator, adjusted the timing and removed a number of emissions related vacuum lines that were not adding performance. Car does run better and has more kick. Interesting that he is recommending removing almost all emissions-related hardware, as the age of the chassis means I no longer have to pass an emissions test, and he is advocating going back to the original Holley 4 barrel carburator that was sold with the car. It has a standard Rochester carb now and was done by the prior owner....no idea why he would change out the Holley in the first place. I seem to recall that the Camera Car now has a Holley carb? Wondering if anyone has any perspective on this and whether I should expect much performance enhancement if I do go to the Holley. While I was at the old (Vette) shop last week to get some warranty work done, they were prepping a mint condition 67 Yellow Corvette. It was the finest, most pristene and original condition Vette I have ever seen in that year. Sold for just a paltry $150K.

[Kavinsky]

Yeah I think anything that's 15 - 20 years old qualifies as a classic in the US and is thus immune to the modern emissions laws, it was something that I had forgotten about and I had seen a video about a guy selling a US Spec Ferrari 308 GTS who had all of that junk removed to improve performance as it was a california only car with the CA smog equipment in addition to the emissions thing on it so I'll have to put that in my own guide as well and generally thats what caused some of the trouble for Markadian back in the day (those emissions laws and bringing in euro spec cars without any of that crap on them to perserve their performance royally pissed off the EPA, basically only people with diplomatic immunity could bring in straight eurospec cars without getting shit from them even though it probably contrubited only about 0.0001 percent polution to the atmosphere and theres STILL just as moronic about that in California today, even with classic cars that should be exempt from those laws) and sorry about that, I had completely forgotten about that and it didnt even occur to me that could have been causing some of the trouble you were having and I think part of the reason why that equipment was there was because the gas back then when the car was made wasn't clean enough to really run properly in fuel injected cars till 1985 when all of the oil companies met up and agreed to change the way they refined their gas to help rectify that problem, hence why while there had been fuel injected cars since the 50's (like some of the early fuelie corvettes and the famous 300SL's) and it just hadnt been widely accepted because of that issue till 1985.Also the Camera Car does have a 4 barrel holly double pumper carb with 2 chokes on it (hence double pumper, it means double pumper chokes) and I think that it had that particular carb on it while it was being used on the show as well. As for why it was removed from your car it IS a 4 barrel carb and those have been known to suck down alot of gas but provide good power in return for that while a 2 gives you less power but provides better gas mileage. As for the Rochester carb itself vs the Holly my father had a holly 4 barrel on one of his old cars that gave him nothing but trouble on his brand new ford in 1955, he said he was constantly tinkering with it to get the damn thing to start. On a brand new car nonetheless which is the reason he sold within a year or so for 4 door Plymouth (probably a Fury) and the 1968 Bullit mustang also had trouble from its holly carb from the reports I read. So it also might be a reliability problem. plus Camera mentioned that when Jurrasic visited the reason why they didnt take the MV car out was because the carb was leaking gas from one of its seals from lack of use. on the other hand that was 40 years ago with those two case so it might be a non issue now, plus things like those carb seals do tend to leak from lack of use over time, the gas just sits there and eventually erodes the either rubber or cork seal.basically if you dont care about gas mileage I'd go for the 4 barrel (although maybe not a holly carb) but if it is the original carb the car came with from the factory it could also be kind of underperforming to begin with because it might have been designed with the immisions stuff in mind, hell maybe any other 2 barrel would perform better than that carb.but however I dont really know too much about what brand of carb is best to go with, I only really know the basics and stuff I've come across while researching certain ferrari's, the lamborghini miura and a few other odd and unique cars.basically webbers can sometimes work and sometimes they dont like on the Miura and the Urraco where the fuel line can come loose and spray all over the engine hence why with any carbed car its best to have a fire extingusher with you at all times and make sure to turn the engine off so you dont feed the flames if worst comes to worst along with disconnecting the battery with a battery disconnect switch for the same reason.and I would imagine the same thing could go for other cars with other carbs like the Holly's, the carb might work fine on one car and then on another it might be horribile so its sort of mix and match to see what works I think, provided a particular carb doesnt have a history of starting trouble like the webbers models used on the Lamborghini Miura and Urraco.

[Kavinsky]

take a look at this:That's Dick Gulstrand on the left, Mr Corvette with a Mcburnie he did suspension work on in 1986 for Dick Marriott a hotel chain ownerhttp://www.vetteweb.com/lifestyle/vemp_1104_dick_guldstrand/photo_07.htmlThe really strange this is the profile on that thing, it looks like the car that was used on the mcburnie buisness cards.I wonder what Gulstrand would have to say about that particular car, its really a wild looking thing with that profile and I gotta wonder is that one of the first C4 based replicas ever made?

[Sonny-Burnett]

That's Dick Gulstrand on the left" data-date=" Mr Corvette with a Mcburnie he did suspension work on in 1986 for Dick Marriott a hotel chain owner[URL">

http://www.vetteweb.com/lifestyle/vemp_1104_dick_guldstrand/photo_07.htmlThe really strange this is the profile on that thing, it looks like the car that was used on the mcburnie buisness cards.I wonder what Gulstrand would have to say about that particular car, its really a wild looking thing with that profile and I gotta wonder is that one of the first C4 based replicas ever made?

The black car looks like mine, sans the Ferrari badge, with the headlight covers. Mine was made in '88. Keep forgetting to scan the literature so I can post it. Probably have 20 or 30 pages including pics. Didn't find a business card...where did you get that? And why would this Vette guy be doing suspension work after the fact on a McBurnie? McBurnie did suspension work as well, as mine was modified to be heavy duty.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Yeah I think anything that's 15 - 20 years old qualifies as a classic in the US and is thus immune to the modern emissions laws' date=' it was something that I had forgotten about and I had seen a video about a guy selling a US Spec Ferrari 308 GTS who had all of that junk removed to improve performance as it was a california only car with the CA smog equipment in addition to the emissions thing on it so I'll have to put that in my own guide as well and generally thats what caused some of the trouble for Markadian back in the day (those emissions laws and bringing in euro spec cars without any of that crap on them to perserve their performance royally pissed off the EPA, basically only people with diplomatic immunity could bring in straight eurospec cars without getting shit from them even though it probably contrubited only about 0.0001 percent polution to the atmosphere and theres STILL just as moronic about that in California today, even with classic cars that should be exempt from those laws) and sorry about that, I had completely forgotten about that and it didnt even occur to me that could have been causing some of the trouble you were having and I think part of the reason why that equipment was there was because the gas back then when the car was made wasn't clean enough to really run properly in fuel injected cars till 1985 when all of the oil companies met up and agreed to change the way they refined their gas to help rectify that problem, hence why while there had been fuel injected cars since the 50's (like some of the early fuelie corvettes and the famous 300SL's) and it just hadnt been widely accepted because of that issue till 1985.Also the Camera Car does have a 4 barrel holly double pumper carb with 2 chokes on it (hence double pumper, it means double pumper chokes) and I think that it had that particular carb on it while it was being used on the show as well. As for why it was removed from your car it IS a 4 barrel carb and those have been known to suck down alot of gas but provide good power in return for that while a 2 gives you less power but provides better gas mileage. As for the Rochester carb itself vs the Holly my father had a holly 4 barrel on one of his old cars that gave him nothing but trouble on his brand new ford in 1955, he said he was constantly tinkering with it to get the damn thing to start. On a brand new car nonetheless which is the reason he sold within a year or so for 4 door Plymouth (probably a Fury) and the 1968 Bullit mustang also had trouble from its holly carb from the reports I read. So it also might be a reliability problem. plus Camera mentioned that when Jurrasic visited the reason why they didnt take the MV car out was because the carb was leaking gas from one of its seals from lack of use. on the other hand that was 40 years ago with those two case so it might be a non issue now, plus things like those carb seals do tend to leak from lack of use over time, the gas just sits there and eventually erodes the either rubber or cork seal.basically if you dont care about gas mileage I'd go for the 4 barrel (although maybe not a holly carb) but if it is the original carb the car came with from the factory it could also be kind of underperforming to begin with because it might have been designed with the immisions stuff in mind, hell maybe any other 2 barrel would perform better than that carb.but however I dont really know too much about what brand of carb is best to go with, I only really know the basics and stuff I've come across while researching certain ferrari's, the lamborghini miura and a few other odd and unique cars.basically webbers can sometimes work and sometimes they dont like on the Miura and the Urraco where the fuel line can come loose and spray all over the engine hence why with any carbed car its best to have a fire extingusher with you at all times and make sure to turn the engine off so you dont feed the flames if worst comes to worst along with disconnecting the battery with a battery disconnect switch for the same reason.and I would imagine the same thing could go for other cars with other carbs like the Holly's, the carb might work fine on one car and then on another it might be horribile so its sort of mix and match to see what works I think, provided a particular carb doesnt have a history of starting trouble like the webbers models used on the Lamborghini Miura and Urraco.[/quote'] Think the emissions standards are state by state but mine is well past the age limit requiring it to pass here in Illinois. Not sure about other states. As this was manufactured in CA for delivery in CA, and CA is one of the most emissions conscious (crazy) states in the Union, am sure mine was overloaded with excess emissions crap. Going in next week with my wish list to the new mechanic of repairs/changes I want now and in the fuure and he is going to give me his recommendations and options. About the Holley (see here http://holley.com/, the mechanic is not recommending the double pumper on a stock 350 as he thinks it would add neglible performance but would guzzle gas. He is recommending the 4 barrell single pumper at this time. But we are still investigating alternatives. I told him I want some extra punch, and the current carb even after he tuned it for me recently still has some hesitation. But the car has noticeably more punch off the line since he tuned the carb and adjusted the timing. Holleys are a very good brand and when I mentioned it he seemed to agree that a Holley may be a good choice for this car. But I am not an expert either on carbs so we are both going to look at alternatives. Probably also going to pull the radiator next week as well and send out to inspect/clean/test or determine that I need to go from a 3 to a 4 core.

[Kavinsky]

The black car looks like mine' date=' sans the Ferrari badge, with the headlight covers. Mine was made in '88. Keep forgetting to scan the literature so I can post it. Probably have 20 or 30 pages including pics. Didn't find a business card...where did you get that? And why would this Vette guy be doing suspension work after the fact on a McBurnie? McBurnie did suspension work as well, as mine was modified to be heavy duty.[/quote'] I got the card off of Cooper and Burnetts literature thread, it something I always kinda wondered about with it and maybe that particular car was a straight converison with a normal suspension rather than a suped up one and that guy is one of the key corvette gurus out there who was one of the first people to race the corvette in the 1960'shttp://www.corvettemuseum.com/library-archives/hof/guldstrand.shtml

[Kavinsky]

http://holley.com/, the mechanic is not recommending the double pumper on a stock 350 as he thinks it would add neglible performance but would guzzle gas. He is recommending the 4 barrell single pumper at this time. But we are still investigating alternatives. I told him I want some extra punch, and the current carb even after he tuned it for me recently still has some hesitation. But the car has noticeably more punch off the line since he tuned the carb and adjusted the timing. Holleys are a very good brand and when I mentioned it he seemed to agree that a Holley may be a good choice for this car. But I am not an expert either on carbs so we are both going to look at alternatives. Probably also going to pull the radiator next week as well and send out to inspect/clean/test or determine that I need to go from a 3 to a 4 core.

Hmm sounds like the carb could just be worn out, with the double pumper thing I'm not sure why Carl put that on car 4 to begin with, nor do I see the use of two chokes and that sounds like a solid move with the radiator

[jurassic narc]

The black car looks like mine' date=' sans the Ferrari badge, with the headlight covers. Mine was made in '88. Keep forgetting to scan the literature so I can post it. Probably have 20 or 30 pages including pics. Didn't find a business card...where did you get that? And why would this Vette guy be doing suspension work after the fact on a McBurnie? McBurnie did suspension work as well, as mine was modified to be heavy duty.[/quote'] The black car is based on a c4 corvette.

[Guest MetroVice]

Movie DaytonaJust finished watching "The Gumball Rally" on Netflix and they had a *nice* red Daytona throughout the movie. The movie came out in 1976 so that was way before the days of Vice. It clearly didn't have the attached notoriety as a *vice-car* yet but was and IS still an absolute wonderful car to look at much-less own.

[Kavinsky]

Unfortunately accordingto the reports they wrecked one in that film and had to buy another one while filming to replace it but they were both legit spyders along with that lovely, very real 427 AC cobra. funny when I was young I lusted over that AC in exactly that configuration (I've got that film on DVD FYI) dark blue no stripes and no roll bar as it just looks the buisneess without all of that crap on it, minus the white things on the frontanyways back ontopic then after the filming was over that car was aquired for the film "A Star Is Born" with Barbra striesanda and wrecked again by Kris Kristenoff, supposedly being turned into an ugly NART spyder with a custom boring body attached to afterwards after he went out drunk driving in the films story and what a waste it was, atleast with the Gumball Rally it was being driven by the late Raul Julia

and despite the loss of one spyder and that annoying bickering couple in the Rolls it was a great film and atleast it went out for something great unlike the stupid star is born film which was part of a plague of films just like that, that came out for people like her in the 1970's, Niel Diamond also had a film just like that as well and a little piece of trivia in the first real Cannonball run they did actually use a Daytona in it and reached a 177 mph with it:

http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewPic=y&source=gal&uID=119513&gID=2618&pgID=20&pID=987261&first=true

[Sonny-Burnett]

The black car is based on a c4 corvette.

Yep, meant that it looked like mine just in appearance. Knew it wasn't mine from the year of manufacture in the ad.

[Kavinsky]

This is odd I may have just figured out why I liked the grill of the Car in S1 and not in S2take a look at this, in S1 it had a 4 or 5 layer grill, which allowed more light to pass through it and it looked fine on the carhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4332&stc=1&d=1310854834and then in S2 it looks like Carl may have added an extra layer to the gril which caused this to happen occasionally when the light shined on it http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4335&stc=1&d=1310854840http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4334&stc=1&d=1310854838instead of this with a rowley daytona lookalike gril.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4333&stc=1&d=1310854836

[jurassic narc]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4332&stc=1&d=1310854834and then in S2 it looks like Carl may have added an extra layer to the gril which caused this to happen occasionally when the light shined on it http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4335&stc=1&d=1310854840http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4334&stc=1&d=1310854838instead of this with a rowley daytona lookalike gril.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4333&stc=1&d=1310854836

No the grills on the show cars were pure McBurnie. The grill Carl built was just like the one on the Rowley cars. I think it is more likely that the bottom of the grill, which acts as a base and is one of the places the grill attaches to the car, in certain shots and at certain angles. The McBurnie grill is not like any other grill you will see on a replicar. It is the only one that extends into the bumper bracing, and appears to have been made of thin aluminium.The Roberts grill is very heavy aluminum pieces welded together, and then welded into a frame which gives the bottom shape and the curve on the outside.

[jurassic narc]

Gear Shift UpgradeThe Show Car Daytona had an elongated shift knob. Those where probably common in the early 80s as the C3 Corvette was very popular. I have looked now for several years for a similar shift knob that would screw onto the Vette shifter.I have not been able to come up with one, but I have always liked the look of the Firebird shifter of the same vintage. So, a little trimming of the standard C3 eight-ball, trimming of the Firebird shifter to get the skin off, and then some epoxy and rubber bands.The shift know screw right onto the Vette shaft, it uses the Vette chrome shift lock, and works great. I like it so well that I am marking this project as complete to my satisfaction.

[Kavinsky]

Ah so that's why you asked about the shifter on the stunt car awhile back, it does looks good on it.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4340&stc=1&d=1310887641One last thing about the gril am I right in thinking that the gril is sligthly arched so that the top sticks out more than the bottom? maybe that's why when the light hit it at those angles it lit up like that when the car was shot from above it like here on this mcburnie I found the other day:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4338&stc=1&d=1310887637http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4335&stc=1&d=1310854840Vs how it looks from a level angle like herehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4337&stc=1&d=1310887635http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4332&stc=1&d=1310854834Sorry if it seems like I keep harping on about the grill but its one of the key things that perplexed me about its S1 and S2 appearance and why I liked the S1 better than the S2 look, which I also partly because of how black the nose looked with that Smoked Plexyglass cover on it, which seemed to be too dark for the car blotting out most of the light from the headlights and drawing attention to the grilland it seems like I've hit the nail on the head there with that mcburine so I may just fix so it isnt arched like that and move it further in the nose to prevent that from happening on mine once I get one if I go with a mcburnierather than going with a different style gril plus I've been looking at other mcburnies that have had some of the mods to the nose like I've described in my thread and I really like the look of them like here with this one:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4341&stc=1&d=1310888025where the inner most headlight is further in that the outer one preventing that optical illusion that made it look like there was a plasic divider between the headlights there like on this quattro from happening on it http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4342&stc=1&d=1310888027Plus it doesnt have that chrome piece infront of the headlights which I think atleast in the daytime looks better on it because it adds more black to the nose but on the other hand it would prevent this look from happening on it at night that I like:

[Sonny-Burnett]

complete to my satisfaction.

Looks very good, JN.

[Sonny-Burnett]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4332&stc=1&d=1310854834and then in S2 it looks like Carl may have added an extra layer to the gril which caused this to happen occasionally when the light shined on it http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4335&stc=1&d=1310854840http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4334&stc=1&d=1310854838instead of this with a rowley daytona lookalike gril.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4333&stc=1&d=1310854836

Maybe you have a better eye than me but I wasn't able to discern a difference between the S1 and S2 McBurnie grills here. You think something was changed?

[Kavinsky]

I'm really not sure but it seems like the netting/layering on the gril (if thats a good way to describe it) could be tighter, atleast on the lower and middle sections of the grill.its either that or it really is arched like on that mcburnie there, it almost looks like the grill is arched in such a way that its supposed to meet with the very edge of the nose of the car at a faint angle instead of sitting at a straight 90 degree angle in the nose, like its sitting at about 80 - 85 degrees (not unlike an arrow head) which would explain why in a few of my favorite shots of the car like here it looks like this when the lights not directly hitting ithttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4348&stc=1&d=1310913434http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4347&stc=1&d=1310913432http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4346&stc=1&d=1310913431http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4345&stc=1&d=1310913428yet then it looks like this when the light hits it directly instead of from the side like in the above shotshttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4335&stc=1&d=1310854840http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4338&stc=1&d=1310887637VS the ones I've come across with completely flat grils that sit at a 90 degree angle in the nose:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4333&stc=1&d=1310854836Including Jurrasics with his Rowley Corvette GTC grill and I think yours is set up in the same way Sonny

[jurassic narc]

One last thing about the gril am I right in thinking that the gril is sligthly arched so that the top sticks out more than the bottom? maybe that's why when the light hit it at those angles it lit up like that when the car was shot from above it like here on this mcburnie I found the other day:

You may have hit the nail on the head. I looked at the pictures I took inside the nose of the Camera Car. The back is vertical from top to bottom, but the front is in line with the nose at the bottom of the headlights and then in line with the top of the lower body panel (I may not be making sense here, but what I am trying to say is that the front side of the grill does appear to have a slope to it.In the Camera Car as it is now, the grill looks to have been cleaned or painted and it looks more like your preference in S1. During the run of the show the grill may not have been cleaned or re-painted due to it's being wrapped into the bumpers.My car grill can be un-screwed and lifted right out, the McBurnie cannot be.JN

[Kavinsky]

Thanks and I'm glad we finally figured that one out as its been bugging the hell out of me trying to figure out why I liked it in S1 but not S2 (like with that shot from "Tales Of The Goat") and yet I'm fine with it as it is now, although I'd still like to go with a smaller grill like on that one I used as an example for my thread just because I really like the look of that cut down grill that takes a few liberties with the ferrari design yet still follows the same general parameters as it:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3683&stc=1&d=1306907376although its kinda interesting to note that the way the MV Cars grill is rigged up means that its in a way rigged up the same way as the old mustang louvers are.and as a final sidenote these kinda colors are why I love muscle cars, drive that down the street and people could see you coming from miles away!