The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[Sonny-Burnett]

All I can say is that Camera Daytona has examined the car and says it is not the car.  And he got all around and under it.  And I can be absolutley sure that the car doesn't have the right numbers on it, because I have seen the ID plate for Car 1.

 

 

You ought to call these guys and give them an earful on this. Can you lay out the particulars on why/how you know this car is a Fake?

And that being the case, why not call these guys and lay it out for them?

Or just arm me with all the particulars and I will drive up north and lay it out for them.

 

Btw, can you expand a bit please on the real ID plate for Car 1 (where seen, who has it, on what car is it on these days)?

Edited February 26, 2014 by Sonny-Burnett

[Sonny-Burnett]

Could be that it was done to guard against the rain, as vents in the hood can lead to water dripping in and getting on the spark plugs overtime with daily drivers and could rust and damage parts on the inside.

 

which I think is part of the reason why you dont see cars like the Ferrari 308, Ferrari 365 BB/512BB/Testarossa series anymore

 

along with the Porsche 914 and 1968 Shelby KR GT500 which all had vents in the hood

 

 

 

hell the early vipers even had Momo Veloce like steering wheels at first along with very similar seats to the pilot seats, and I think the Daytona looks better too but same general framework really.

 

I would guess that the vents just add to the airflow coming through the nose, as it would relieve the pressure under the hood and allow the air to flow more freely and cool better, imo.

Never thought about the rain, as I have only been caught once in a downpour, and with a hot engine rain was less of a concern than my leaky convertible top. 

 

As to the Volo car, we ought to make a new thread on this and get a lot of facts out on the table. These people have been touting/hawking this car as the Real Car driven in Miami Vice far too long and if CD and JN have facts to the contrary, we should lay them out and get them in front of Volo.

And if it was the real car, why did they opt for a Faux Ferrari interior vs the look of the cars in the show? Seems like either they didn't know the difference and the Car they bought did not have the correct (Vette) interior, or they consciously changed the look for selling purposes.

[Kavinsky]

I dont know, the weirder part is they mention TWO cars for speed zone from the sound of it, and claim its only one of two made.

 

But I'm half wondering if this is not out of malace and just misinformation really, and in speed zone the door handles had been replaced with the more ferrari like door handles and I wonder if the interior was changed accordingly really

 

but why switch back the door handles and not the Interior with what we know of it?

 

and actually if you have the time someones got a bootleg of that movie on youtube, the fully damn thing

[Brian W]

I'm late to this party, but MAN have I been looking for some Zenith or Dayton gold spinners for 3 years now.  Have some cheap stickers I'm thinking about putting on my Borrani spinners, but not sure how it'll look...most likely really cheap.  If you guys find anything please keep me in mind.  They're on eBay almost daily in many, many colors...just never the gold/amber color like on the show in metal.

[Kavinsky]

Alright ill keep an eye out, see what I come across.

 

also I found some more photos of that white pearl one you liked here:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22107503@N04/10912529014/

Edited March 6, 2014 by Kavinsky

[Kavinsky]

hmm found some interesting stuff here, apparently you can get race parts from Duntov motorsports for the C3 corvette?

 

http://www.duntovmotors.com/vintage-racing-parts-suspension.php

 

maybe that's where the parts for the back end of your car came from Sonny?

 

 

also take a look at this 1958 Corvette, it doesnt look bad with the 54 spoke rims on it and 215/65's all around

 

http://www.truespoke.net/TSAction4.html

 

although it seems like its up to the choice of tire to see how well the front wheels fit the front flare, like one with a low profile sidewall seems to line it up better, like on this one with 15X8's with Toyo 888, which just seem very countach like to me, probably why I keep coming back to this C3 packing them

 

http://m.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2895377-finally-got-my-1972-on-the-racetrack-5.html

 

8x15 front and 8.5x15 rear, Toyo 888 tires and 4 inch back spacers?

 

 

although apparently the street car tires are BFgoodwrench

http://m.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/3224187-15-inch-aftermarket-wheels-on-69-pics-please.html

 

either that or it could be the tire spacers, of which I dont understand how that works

 

 

and I've been looking at Jurrasic's Carl Roberts car and I think I figured out what he did differently about the flares, he left the top halves intact, but slimmed down the lower half from the mid height of the car down, to nearly damn near half the thickness.

 

also I found this the other day, I gotta wonder of the Audi 90 Quattro Mirrors would work for one of the replicas?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/baldys_quattro/10235741313/in/photostream/

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kavinsky

[MTVcops]

I'm late to this party, but MAN have I been looking for some Zenith or Dayton gold spinners for 3 years now. Have some cheap stickers I'm thinking about putting on my Borrani spinners, but not sure how it'll look...most likely really cheap. If you guys find anything please keep me in mind. They're on eBay almost daily in many, many colors...just never the gold/amber color like on the show in metal.

[jurassic narc]

You ought to call these guys and give them an earful on this. Can you lay out the particulars on why/how you know this car is a Fake?

And that being the case, why not call these guys and lay it out for them?

Or just arm me with all the particulars and I will drive up north and lay it out for them.

 

Btw, can you expand a bit please on the real ID plate for Car 1 (where seen, who has it, on what car is it on these days)?

Camera Daytona did that when he was there.  They are standing by their unconfirmed story that Car one was used in SpeedZone.  And this is one of the cars used in SpeedZone.  Carl confirms that, it is just not the car used on Miami Vice.

[CameraDaytona]

Absolutely correct.  The car at Volo is one of two used in Speed Zone.  The Corvette donor car for the number one Daytona had been in an accident and the frame had been welded, and the right hand frame rail was one and a half inches shorter than the left rail, so when McBurnie was building the (first) Daytona replica, he built one side and then tried to duplicate it (size wise) on the other side and couldn't get the wheel to look right in the wheel opening.  He then measured the frame and found the difference in length.  So, he finessed the right side to make the wheel opening look correct.  I examined the frame rails of the Volo car and found no weld areas.  The serial number is not correct for car 1, the dash and interior are not correct, the second brake pedal is not correct, etc, etc.  The paperwork shows it to be one of the two Speed Zone cars, and I believe that it was.  But, I believe it was a car that Carl Roberts made up for the Speed Zone movie.  He never had a title for the "stunt car" and had it torn apart to build the stunt Testarossa.  When that didn't work, he never put the car back together. 

[crowe-t]

What transmission is in the Camera car(Car 4)?  Is it a TH400 or TH700?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike. 

Edited March 29, 2014 by crowe-t

[Kavinsky]

I think a T 350 or T 400, which was also used on the Ferrari 400 weirdly.

[CameraDaytona]

What transmission is in the Camera car(Car 4)?  Is it a TH400 or TH700?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike. 

I think it is the TH 350 that came in the 1981 Corvette which was the donor chassis.  It is definitely not the TH 700.

[jurassic narc]

Yes, I think both cars with 3 speed auto w/o overdrive.

[jurassic narc]

On a bright note. I bought this!!!

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400684797720?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[CameraDaytona]

On a bright note. I bought this!!!

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400684797720?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 

Cool!!!

[Sonny-Burnett]

On a bright note. I bought this!!!

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400684797720?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 

 

Ditto on that...VERY cool .

Looks like the one in The Great McCarthy and seen in Heart of Darkness.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Camera Daytona did that when he was there.  They are standing by their unconfirmed story that Car one was used in SpeedZone.  And this is one of the cars used in SpeedZone.  Carl confirms that, it is just not the car used on Miami Vice.

 

So they appear not to have ANY documentation then?

 

Absolutely correct.  The car at Volo is one of two used in Speed Zone.  The Corvette donor car for the number one Daytona had been in an accident and the frame had been welded, and the right hand frame rail was one and a half inches shorter than the left rail, so when McBurnie was building the (first) Daytona replica, he built one side and then tried to duplicate it (size wise) on the other side and couldn't get the wheel to look right in the wheel opening.  He then measured the frame and found the difference in length.  So, he finessed the right side to make the wheel opening look correct.  I examined the frame rails of the Volo car and found no weld areas.  The serial number is not correct for car 1, the dash and interior are not correct, the second brake pedal is not correct, etc, etc.  The paperwork shows it to be one of the two Speed Zone cars, and I believe that it was.  But, I believe it was a car that Carl Roberts made up for the Speed Zone movie.  He never had a title for the "stunt car" and had it torn apart to build the stunt Testarossa.  When that didn't work, he never put the car back together. 

 

I recall the info about the Frame being longer on one side due to an accident, and causing MCB installation problems.

As to the serial number being incorrect, can you elaborate about what is known about the serial number for Car 1 (stunt) and how it is documented?

 

I understand about the Volo dash and interior not following the appearance in the Vice series, but should the car have been sitting out and heavily weathered then I would expect they may have just decided on a more faux Ferrari look as MCB did later on. Or maybe they just didn't take the time to do their homework on the show cars appearances.

What paperwork did they produce supporting the car as used in Speed Zone? Who was the seller on that?

Not defending them at all on this, but if Roberts did make this car up for Speed Zone, then what would he have used for the Daytona body molds? Wouldn't it have been easier to take them from the stunt car? 

On the comment about the Stunt car being torn apart to build the stunt Testa, I thought a Pantera frame was used for that?

[Kavinsky]

Oh its that, I thought you ment the mirrors jurrasic lol and its from a ferrari 400? so there WAS something from that car used on the show, it was just the keyfob not the autoshifter like I was looking into

 

with the car I rememeber coming across some corvette magazine that talked about who bought the car from texas, which is still up here

 

http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vemp_0611_miami_vice_ferrari/

Edited April 8, 2014 by Kavinsky

[Sonny-Burnett]

Oh its that, I thought you ment the mirrors jurrasic lol and its from a ferrari 400? so there WAS something from that car used on the show, it was just the keyfob not the autoshifter like I was looking into

 

with the car I rememeber coming across some corvette magazine that talked about who bought the car from texas, which is still up here

 

http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vemp_0611_miami_vice_ferrari/

 

I do think that Key fob is the real deal as a duplicate from the one in the series. I had always thought that Vice had one made for the show by someone on the side (like our Icemanmike) but appears now that this is a genuine Ferrari key fob.

 

On the article your referenced I had seen this and forgotten about this one. So this must be the guy that Volo cars acquired their car from.

And interestingly his only reference to his claim that his car was used in the series is:

 

"For years there was no record of where the Miami Vice cars went. One was said to be on display in a museum in Tennessee. The other, based on an '81 Corvette chassis, just surfaced in Lubbock, Texas, in the possession of Jeff Souter. Although the car is slated to undergo a restoration and is currently in a somewhat deteriorated state, we thought its unique history and celebrity status made it worthy of recognition."Read more: http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vemp_0611_miami_vice_ferrari/#ixzz2yJ6ZvonI 

Two points on this....first, I've never seen  anything about a car in Tennessee, and the '81 he claims to own is actually Car 4 in the hands of Camera Daytona. If he had the stunt car then he should be claiming to own the '76 car. So I don't see any proof or anything at all in his article supporting that his car was ever used in Vice. It may very well be the car from Speed Zone, but that's a huge and unsupported leap that his car was used in MV and ergo if his car was sold to Volo...same story.

[jurassic narc]

So they appear not to have ANY documentation then?

 

 

I recall the info about the Frame being longer on one side due to an accident, and causing MCB installation problems.

As to the serial number being incorrect, can you elaborate about what is known about the serial number for Car 1 (stunt) and how it is documented?

 

I understand about the Volo dash and interior not following the appearance in the Vice series, but should the car have been sitting out and heavily weathered then I would expect they may have just decided on a more faux Ferrari look as MCB did later on. Or maybe they just didn't take the time to do their homework on the show cars appearances.

What paperwork did they produce supporting the car as used in Speed Zone? Who was the seller on that?

Not defending them at all on this, but if Roberts did make this car up for Speed Zone, then what would he have used for the Daytona body molds? Wouldn't it have been easier to take them from the stunt car? 

On the comment about the Stunt car being torn apart to build the stunt Testa, I thought a Pantera frame was used for that?

I have seen the documents that Camera Daytona has which identify both cars by VIN.  He has documents from Universals lawyers to Mardikian when they were trying to get clear titles to the cars.  Roberts had (and probably still has) Daytona molds.  He produced his own line of cars.  He had several bodies made and there is an article posted here somewhere that was done by Popular Mechanics where they did a build on one of his cars.

 

He tried to make a Testarossa stunt car on a Corvette Frame (car 1), but then realized that the engine in the front was a deal killer.  He then went with the Pantera.

[Kavinsky]

sounds like theres some misinformation even in that, why would car 4 be in a museum in TN? is he, the author of that, getting that mixed up with when the car was on loan to a Mall of which jurrasic has photos of? 

 

as from what I can remember, carl had car 4, his brother changed over the Power Mirrors to the Baby tornado ones, probably removed the center console trim because of that and put back on the standard shift knob, then the car went to another owner before Camera

 

where that sound system was put in, probably prompting the redo of the doors as the speakers were in them in the show, and then they were moved to the area behind the driver.

 

in addition to some misc changes to the small details externally.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Kavinsky

[jurassic narc]

sounds like theres some misinformation even in that, why would car 4 be in a museum in TN? is he, the author of that, getting that mixed up with when the car was on loan to a Mall of which jurrasic has photos of? 

 

as from what I can remember, carl had car 4, his brother changed over the Power Mirrors to the Baby tornado ones, probably removed the center console trim because of that and put back on the standard shift knob, then the car went to another owner before Camera

 

where that sound system was put in, probably prompting the redo of the doors as the speakers were in them in the show, and then they were moved to the area behind the driver.

 

in addition to some misc changes to the small details externally.

No the car in Tennessee is a complete fraud.  You can see George Barris introduce it on UTube.  It looks nothing like the real deal.  Just another of the "two-or two hundred-actual cars used on Miami Vice".

[Kavinsky]

oh that one, the one that they have a photo of on the wikipedia article about.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_in_Miami_Vice

 

decent looking car but I guess they've never seen the show otherwise it wouldnt have such obivious mistakes on it

[Sonny-Burnett]

I have seen the documents that Camera Daytona has which identify both cars by VIN.  He has documents from Universals lawyers to Mardikian when they were trying to get clear titles to the cars.  Roberts had (and probably still has) Daytona molds.  He produced his own line of cars.  He had several bodies made and there is an article posted here somewhere that was done by Popular Mechanics where they did a build on one of his cars.

 

He tried to make a Testarossa stunt car on a Corvette Frame (car 1), but then realized that the engine in the front was a deal killer.  He then went with the Pantera.

 

Wow..how in the world did CD manage to obtain legal docs from Universal to Markidian? So he has the ACTUAL serial number then of the donor '76 Vette used to build the Stunt car?

Would be interested to see those docs for sure, even privately.  

 

Ok on the Roberts molds..I wasn't sure if he was forced (by the courts) to destroy those before he built the Speed Zone car (released in 1989). So do we know whether anyone obtained the serial number from the frame or drivetrain of the car at Volo to compare to CD's documents? I would think that would be proof enough for Volo to withdraw their claims on having the Vice car.

 

And Souter was the Seller to Volo, correct? Did CD see any paperwork from the Seller to Volo?

Also wasn't aware Roberts first tried building the stunt Testa from Car1 as well...so do you know what he did with the torn down Car1 frame and body?

[Sonny-Burnett]

oh that one, the one that they have a photo of on the wikipedia article about.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_in_Miami_Vice

 

decent looking car but I guess they've never seen the show otherwise it wouldnt have such obivious mistakes on it

 

I went to the museum website but of course they are silent on the provenance of the car, much the same as Volo. No interior shots that I can find...but the mirrors are wrong, as is the front badging (silver chrome??), the seats, and spinners as well. Can't make out much else from their shots.

 

The author of the Wiki article must have been reading the forum here on some of the details, though I never heard of his claim that Ferrari denied the producers requests for genuine Ferraris. I'd always read that the MV transportation scout named Haggerty spotted the Markidian Daytonas and decided on them based on their much lower cost vs genuine Daytonas.

I also never heard of a $49000 selling price to Universal from Markidian...maybe CD's documents support that.