The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[Kavinsky]

Jurrasic posted them here awhile back and as I always do I saved them, I remember him saying they were from Carl I think, probably taken just after the car arrived back from Miami and I think they're both yellow in those photos, ill have to up the brightness a touch to confirm. [ATTACH=CONFIG]n296278[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]n296279[/ATTACH]okay enlarged the first one as well, hard to see but I think its yellow in the first photo.

[CameraDaytona]

Thanks Kavinsky! How do you get the full size pictures into your posts? When I click the camera icon, all I get is the pictures that you have to click on to blow up in size. I could do it in the old software, but not now. And I haven't found any instructions on how to do it.

[jurassic narc]

I have noticed that the early pictures of the Daytonas show the emblems in the wheels to be the Eagle rather than the Ferrari emblem. In some of the photos it's hard to see the emblem well but you can generally see if it is black or yellow. I'm not sure if one of the cars had the Ferrari emblems and the other did not or if they were changed during the filming.

Both cars had Zenith wire wheels with the gold Zenith logos (which is also available from Dayton). The spinners were straight, not swept back. These are very difficult to find now. I have searched for several years for the Zenith spinners or the center gold logos. Zenith went out of business and was then resurrected. Dayton does do the correct caps (straight) on special order, and the Dayton gold eagles look almost the same (they just say Dayton Wire Wheels instead of Zenith Wire Wheels around the outer edge). BTW the Zenith logos were (I believe) metal, while the rest are vinyl.Like the Momo logo on the steering wheel, the cars were never fitted with Ferrari emblems on the wheels. I would think the Ferrari horn button, wheel emblems and any other items would have been easy to come by at the time (the Ferrari replicar business didn't really exist at the time).

[Kavinsky]

sorry about the late reply, I've been kinda pacing myself abit more nowadays, now theres an insert thing you click on once you upload it, and then it puts it wherever you want it, problem is that it removes the spacing between the wordsand you have to edit it afterwards to put the spacing back in after posting, which sometimes can be spotty as for the resizing and brightening of the photosI resized it in a free program called photoscape, that Timm pointed me towards years ago when I was redoing the photos for some of the episode guides, although in hindsight considering the difference between the DVD screencaps and the VHS its a good thing we have both.but that is the program that allows me to manipulate and fiddle with photos.so the original caps are metal vs Vinyl nowadays?, weird, that's the same material being used for body wraps nowadays, funny how that's gone from being used in the interior in place of leather to the outside of the car nowadays really.wonder if that's why I came across what looked like a gold plated version of the eagles in that low rider impala video, maybe that is only possible with the originals.

[jurassic narc]

sorry about the late reply' date=' I've been kinda pacing myself abit more nowadays, now theres an insert thing you click on once you upload it, and then it puts it wherever you want it, problem is that it removes the spacing between the wordsand you have to edit it afterwards to put the spacing back in after posting, which sometimes can be spotty as for the resizing and brightening of the photosI resized it in a free program called photoscape, that Timm pointed me towards years ago when I was redoing the photos for some of the episode guides, although in hindsight considering the difference between the DVD screencaps and the VHS its a good thing we have both.but that is the program that allows me to manipulate and fiddle with photos.so the original caps are metal vs Vinyl nowadays?, weird, that's the same material being used for body wraps nowadays, funny how that's gone from being used in the interior in place of leather to the outside of the car nowadays really.wonder if that's why I came across what looked like a gold plated version of the eagles in that low rider impala video, maybe that is only possible with the originals.[/quote']An old school low rider probably has the original Zeniths. That is the market the company leaned towards, and their current focus. If you run a search on EBay for wire wheel spinners you will see the Vinyls with the correct looking eagle in gold and various other colors. But the original Zeniths appear to be stamped metal, and are about four times as expensive. I keep looking for a set for sale, but the company going out of business caused a lot of old stock to be lost.

[Kavinsky]

ill keep an eye out then, see if something pops up.

 

hell wonder if maybe the corvette forum guys would know anything as I occassionally stumble upon a C3 with wire wheels sometimes when browsing.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Not sure I'm following this topic so well, and maybe someone can clarify, but as you know I have the Zenith wire wheels that were original on the manufactured date of my car. The spinners are metal and swept back with Ferrari logos. and I believe have a kind of a hard clear covering over the logo.

Not sure if you are saying the original Zeniths should have the Eagle logos in here, but it may also be possible for the originals to have Ferrari logos and, is it possible they may have have been removed by MCB to avoid using any Ferrari logos?

I also have not seen the non-swept back spinners with those Eagle logos anywhere .

[jurassic narc]

Not sure I'm following this topic so well, and maybe someone can clarify, but as you know I have the Zenith wire wheels that were original on the manufactured date of my car. The spinners are metal and swept back with Ferrari logos. and I believe have a kind of a hard clear covering over the logo.

Not sure if you are saying the original Zeniths should have the Eagle logos in here, but it may also be possible for the originals to have Ferrari logos and, is it possible they may have have been removed by MCB to avoid using any Ferrari logos?

I also have not seen the non-swept back spinners with those Eagle logos anywhere .

Depends on the era the car was built.  Zenith wires would not have been sold with the Ferrari logo most likely.  The wires from the company would be with the eagle landing logo that was on the vice car.  They came in several colors, and simply attached to the spinner.  Non-swept spinners are an order only item from Dayton wire wheels, and at the time the cars were built the 72 spoke wheels were identical.

 

When the show cars were built, McBurnie would not have used the Ferrari logo, as the cars were not meant to be Ferrari's.  He may have purchased the inexpensive Ferrari stick on labels to replace the more elaborate Zenith logo.  The original zenith logo is stamped metal (or cast-but most likely stamped), and the faux-Ferrari spinner logos are printed with a vinyl cover.  The faux-Ferrari logos are very inexpensive, but look fine for a long time as the vinyl cover protects the printing.

Edited January 11, 2014 by jurassic narc

[Kavinsky]

Hmm I just found these here

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIRE-WHEEL-EAGLE-EMBLEMS-2-25-GOLD-lowrider-hydraulics-dayton-zenith-true-spoke-/121245835653?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3ad0a185&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIRE-WHEEL-EAGLE-EMBLEMS-1-9-lowrider-hydraulics-dayton-zenith-true-spoke-/111248955268?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19e6f45784&vxp=mtr

 

not straight up the same ones but pretty damn close, and one with a amber like look to it, and then a straight up goldish one too minus the lettering.

 

and a website with a phone number as well to go along with it:

 

http://www.801wheels.com/Emblems.html

 

also happy birthday Sonny.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Kavinsky

[jurassic narc]

Hmm I just found these here

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIRE-WHEEL-EAGLE-EMBLEMS-2-25-GOLD-lowrider-hydraulics-dayton-zenith-true-spoke-/121245835653?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3ad0a185&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIRE-WHEEL-EAGLE-EMBLEMS-1-9-lowrider-hydraulics-dayton-zenith-true-spoke-/111248955268?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19e6f45784&vxp=mtr

 

not straight up the same ones but pretty damn close, and one with a amber like look to it, and then a straight up goldish one too minus the lettering.

 

and a website with a phone number as well to go along with it:

 

http://www.801wheels.com/Emblems.html

 

also happy birthday Sonny.

Yes, that is what I have on my car, except it is the Dayton Wire Wheels version.  The Zeniths look similar at a distance, but up close have more detail and are not vinyl.

[CameraDaytona]

My center caps are the Zenith eagle on the black background.  I think they are metal, not plastic.  (I haven't figured out how to add a picture in this format.)  It still has the Zenith wheels which I assume were the original ones used on the show.  I wonder why and when the center caps were changed.  I always thought that the cars had the Ferrari emblems while on the show.  Actually, Tom McBurnie told me that Universal used the Ferrari emblems on the wheels, and he told me from whom they got them - but he may have been wrong.  Maybe they had planned to use them but decided not to use them.

[jurassic narc]

My center caps are the Zenith eagle on the black background.  I think they are metal, not plastic.  (I haven't figured out how to add a picture in this format.)  It still has the Zenith wheels which I assume were the original ones used on the show.  I wonder why and when the center caps were changed.  I always thought that the cars had the Ferrari emblems while on the show.  Actually, Tom McBurnie told me that Universal used the Ferrari emblems on the wheels, and he told me from whom they got them - but he may have been wrong.  Maybe they had planned to use them but decided not to use them.

None of the pictures from tht time frame have anything but the gold Zenith eagles (that I can find).  The picture Carl did with the babe and the stunt testarossa and the Daytona (wth the cut-out of Don Johnson) has the black eagles you have now.  Some of the photos I got from Carl have the gold eagles and some have the black eagles.  I can only assume that at some point he changed them because of damage (?) or he sold the ones on the show car for a premium (?).  Since you have met Carl, I think you get the picture.

 

More likely is that McBurnie gave them advise on getting the hood emblem and the emblem for the trunk.  He may have thought they used the emblems for the wheels as well.  I think Universal tried to get by as cheaply as possible.  

[Sonny-Burnett]

Depends on the era the car was built.  Zenith wires would not have been sold with the Ferrari logo most likely.  The wires from the company would be with the eagle landing logo that was on the vice car.  They came in several colors, and simply attached to the spinner.  Non-swept spinners are an order only item from Dayton wire wheels, and at the time the cars were built the 72 spoke wheels were identical.

 

When the show cars were built, McBurnie would not have used the Ferrari logo, as the cars were not meant to be Ferrari's.  He may have purchased the inexpensive Ferrari stick on labels to replace the more elaborate Zenith logo.  The original zenith logo is stamped metal (or cast-but most likely stamped), and the faux-Ferrari spinner logos are printed with a vinyl cover.  The faux-Ferrari logos are very inexpensive, but look fine for a long time as the vinyl cover protects the printing.

 

Just to restart this a bit, how was this topic originally framed? Was someone looking for the Zeniths in their original form as sold in the 80s and used on the show cars?

Were you able to ascertain that the non-swept spinners were in fact from Zenith wheels? I ask because mine are swept and are Zenith for sure. And I do think my Ferrari spinners were sold with the wire wheels because the cap uses an Allen fitting, coupled with a removable 3 holed plate that mounts the wheel to the hub  that was designed for the spinner fittings. In other words, the wheel assembly is not common and so any spinner would have to be designed for a very uncommon wheel mounting system. A tire store guy that had been around confirmed that to me as well some time ago.

 

As to the Ferrari emblems being cheap or flimsy, well mine are not and look to be well made. I just stepped out and took a close look and saw what appeared to be a raised metal horse and raised metal Ferrari lettering (like bas-relief) on a reflective gold/orange-colored backing of some sort, and the clear surface covering the raised metal was a textured type of covering of some sort like you might find in something enclosed in thin textured Lucite. The border is metal so again this does not look like some sort of "inexpensive Ferrari stick-on labels" as you state. These look to be quite well made and attractive. (bas-relief metal horse and lettering)

 

On the subject of the show car and what emblem was on the center cap, I don't believe any close-ups from the series have been identified clearly showing either an eagle or the Ferrari emblem? As to the thought that MCB (or maybe the MV production people would have the final decision) would not have used the Ferrari logo on the car ...I'm a bit confused on that. The show cars do have both the Ferrari script logo on the trunk and the Ferrari badge on the hood, so clearly the cars are intended to look like a Ferrari in the show. So then why not have the Ferrari badge on the center caps? If they were available in 1988 when my car was made they likely could have been available 4 years earlier as well.

It would be good if there were close-up shots in the eps to look at however.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sonny-Burnett

[Sonny-Burnett]

My center caps are the Zenith eagle on the black background.  I think they are metal, not plastic.  (I haven't figured out how to add a picture in this format.)  It still has the Zenith wheels which I assume were the original ones used on the show.  I wonder why and when the center caps were changed.  I always thought that the cars had the Ferrari emblems while on the show.  Actually, Tom McBurnie told me that Universal used the Ferrari emblems on the wheels, and he told me from whom they got them - but he may have been wrong.  Maybe they had planned to use them but decided not to use them.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if the Ferrari wheel emblems were used on the show. It is consistent with the use of the trunk Ferrari script and the hood Ferrari badge.

[Sonny-Burnett]

 

also happy birthday Sonny.

 

Thanks man, but wrong Sonny Burnett.  

[CameraDaytona]

In going back over the pictures I have from the series, I only found the eagle center caps - absolutely no Ferrari emblems on the wheel center caps.  As you say JN, the black caps show up on the promotional photos for the show.  There are not very many clear photos of the center caps in the photos taken from the series videos - it's hard to tell if they are gold or black.  When the cars are moving the caps are blurred and the black caps have gold eagles and vice versa, so a blurred image is very difficult to pick out which is which.  I definitely see the gold caps, and maybe see the black caps also????

 

JN - the Volo car has the gold caps.  Do you think it is possible that Carl used the wheels from the stunt car on the car that went out to CA for the "Speed Trap" movie?  We know the Volo car is not the stunt car because of a number of reasons, but maybe it could have the wheels?

[jurassic narc]

Just to restart this a bit, how was this topic originally framed? Was someone looking for the Zeniths in their original form as sold in the 80s and used on the show cars?

Were you able to ascertain that the non-swept spinners were in fact from Zenith wheels? I ask because mine are swept and are Zenith for sure. And I do think my Ferrari spinners were sold with the wire wheels because the cap uses an Allen fitting, coupled with a removable 3 holed plate that mounts the wheel to the hub  that was designed for the spinner fittings. In other words, the wheel assembly is not common and so any spinner would have to be designed for a very uncommon wheel mounting system. A tire store guy that had been around confirmed that to me as well some time ago.

 

As to the Ferrari emblems being cheap or flimsy, well mine are not and look to be well made. I just stepped out and took a close look and saw what appeared to be a raised metal horse and raised metal Ferrari lettering (like bas-relief) on a reflective gold/orange-colored backing of some sort, and the clear surface covering the raised metal was a textured type of covering of some sort like you might find in something enclosed in thin textured Lucite. The border is metal so again this does not look like some sort of "inexpensive Ferrari stick-on labels" as you state. These look to be quite well made and attractive. (bas-relief metal horse and lettering)

 

On the subject of the show car and what emblem was on the center cap, I don't believe any close-ups from the series have been identified clearly showing either an eagle or the Ferrari emblem? As to the thought that MCB (or maybe the MV production people would have the final decision) would not have used the Ferrari logo on the car ...I'm a bit confused on that. The show cars do have both the Ferrari script logo on the trunk and the Ferrari badge on the hood, so clearly the cars are intended to look like a Ferrari in the show. So then why not have the Ferrari badge on the center caps? If they were available in 1988 when my car was made they likely could have been available 4 years earlier as well.

It would be good if there were close-up shots in the eps to look at however.

This is from the show car.  I posted a picture earlier from Season 1, Milk Run which clearly shows the eagle as well.  But the photo isn't in my archive now. I guess all the pictures previously loaded are now gone.

[jurassic narc]

In going back over the pictures I have from the series, I only found the eagle center caps - absolutely no Ferrari emblems on the wheel center caps.  As you say JN, the black caps show up on the promotional photos for the show.  There are not very many clear photos of the center caps in the photos taken from the series videos - it's hard to tell if they are gold or black.  When the cars are moving the caps are blurred and the black caps have gold eagles and vice versa, so a blurred image is very difficult to pick out which is which.  I definitely see the gold caps, and maybe see the black caps also????

 

JN - the Volo car has the gold caps.  Do you think it is possible that Carl used the wheels from the stunt car on the car that went out to CA for the "Speed Trap" movie?  We know the Volo car is not the stunt car because of a number of reasons, but maybe it could have the wheels?

Like I said in another post, you know Carl.  I think it is possible that he swapped lots of the parts around.  Didn't really see the significance of the cars and the parts at the time.  That's just my opinion.

 

As to the Volo car, I think that is a good possiblity.  I am not sure how hard those spinners were to come by at that time, but they are certainly rare now.  I have been looking on Ebay for several years.  I even contacted Zenith, but they had recently resumed production and had none of the old stuff in stock.

Edited January 18, 2014 by jurassic narc

[Sonny-Burnett]

I couldn't find my album saved photos either as yet.

 

Guess I don't follow why you believe MCB would not use Ferrari logos on the car, as it seems inconsistent with other Ferrari logos on the car as well as the statement he apparently made to CameraDaytona that Universal did use the Ferrari logos on the wheels.

 

The shots above are of car4 in CameraDaytona's possession, correct? I believe I have seen these before as well.

What I was asking about is whether there are any shots of the wheel caps in the series during one of the eps? To my recollection I have not seen any or any that were clear or definitive. (Wasn't referring to promo shots or still shots taken after the series.)

Hmm can't recall that one from Milk Run but maybe I can go check that ep this weekend.  

[jurassic narc]

I couldn't find my album saved photos either as yet.

 

Guess I don't follow why you believe MCB would not use Ferrari logos on the car, as it seems inconsistent with other Ferrari logos on the car as well as the statement he apparently made to CameraDaytona that Universal did use the Ferrari logos on the wheels.

 

The shots above are of car4 in CameraDaytona's possession, correct? I believe I have seen these before as well.

What I was asking about is whether there are any shots of the wheel caps in the series during one of the eps? To my recollection I have not seen any or any that were clear or definitive. (Wasn't referring to promo shots or still shots taken after the series.)

Hmm can't recall that one from Milk Run but maybe I can go check that ep this weekend.  

No, that is a shot right after Carl took the car.  It still had the wheels from the show.  There is a very clear shot from Milk Run in front of the Senator Hotel (which also shows the details of the door panel that was origianlly used on Car 4).  Carl traded out the door panels and the car ended up with the black eagles.  Any add ons to the car would have had to be original Ferrari, as there were only 5 replicas in existence when the show commenced.  Since the wheels used on the Corvette spindles were not the Ferrari Boronis I tend to think that the wheels (like the horn button) were left as they were when the cars were built (Zenith caps and Momo horn button).  For a very clear look at the MOMO button take a look at Junk Love, in the pre-title sequence.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/screenshots/bought12.jpg

Edited January 18, 2014 by jurassic narc

[Sonny-Burnett]

No, that is a shot right after Carl took the car.  It still had the wheels from the show.  There is a very clear shot from Milk Run in front of the Senator Hotel (which also shows the details of the door panel that was origianlly used on Car 4).  Carl traded out the door panels and the car ended up with the black eagles.  Any add ons to the car would have had to be original Ferrari, as there were only 5 replicas in existence when the show commenced.  Since the wheels used on the Corvette spindles were not the Ferrari Boronis I tend to think that the wheels (like the horn button) were left as they were when the cars were built (Zenith caps and Momo horn button).  For a very clear look at the MOMO button take a look at Junk Love, in the pre-title sequence.

 

Thanks on clarifying the timing of the photos you posted.

Question- did Carl change out the spinners used on the wheels in the show and if so, what were the spinners in the show? (swept/non swept, and did he indicate who made them?)

 I recall that shot now you mention from Milk Run and I will look to see if I have a version of it that I can blow up.

 

JN I know you know the history of the show cars better than probably anyone (along with Camera) but I was thinking that you appeared to discount the Ferrari spinners as possibly used in the show because somewhere you had seen some cheaply made Ferrari style stickers for the caps. But as I was saying, mine are anything but cheaply made and look to be well made as I described. They have raised metal Prancing Horse and lettering encased in something resembling thin Lucite.

And because of how the spinner is mounted to the hub with a really unusual design using a 3 hole plate, requiring a special tool I have to carry around to even remove them, I am fairly certain these Ferrari style hubs/spinners came with/were made for my Zenith wire wheels. And the wheels are Zenith as they are marked as such.

So if Zenith was making a Ferrari style spinner back in '88 (or let's say they were just able to obtain them)  I was just pointing out that they could have been available 4 years earlier as well.

Perhaps there was already a market for their wheels with various emblems that may have included Ferrari style caps and spinners. Perhaps customers had requested such spinners and wheels for use on other types of cars?

So I can't say for certain that Ferrari spinners were ever used on the show. but perhaps they may have been available during the time period, and they would have rivaled in appearance the Eagle metal stamped ones you referred to. 

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sonny-Burnett

[CameraDaytona]

I went back through all of the pictures of the Daytonas from scenes in the series.  Every episode where there was a picture of the Daytona where you could see the center caps, they were the eagles.  I do not believe Ferrari emblems were ever used.  I would guess that when the first 4 cars were built, the Zenith wheels were used with the eagle center caps.  The cars as originally built had no Ferrari identifications.  When Universal got the cars, they added the Ferrari badges, but I don't think they added the Ferrari center caps.

 

JN - do you believe that both of the cars had the gold eagles or would it be possible that one had the gold eagles and one had the black eagles.  There are some of the pictures from the series where the center caps look black rather than gold; however, none of the pictures are clear enough to really say for sure.  The pictures you included above - do you know which car they were from.  In the picture of the girl next to the car on the water front from Popular Science, the car has black eagles.  I don't know when that picture was taken.  (If I could figure out how to add pictures, I would add it to the post.)

[Sonny-Burnett]

 

CameraDaytona: Just testing the photo upload feature again. I clicked on My Media button in the toolbar here and clicked Attachments and it appears all the photos I previously uploaded are still there.

So for testing I clicked on one of my wheel here to see how it looks. If you click on the photo it opens to its original larger posted size.

 

For new photos here's what I do: when I want to upload a photo I first resize it in PhotoScape (freeware) and then upload it to Photobucket. Then you can download the resized photo from Photobucket to the Forum.

At least that's how it worked in the past and I will try it again.

 

Thanks for researching your photos of car 4 in the series and I would love to see those shots of the wheels in various eps.

I did find the one JN referred to in Milk Run but it is too grainy when resized to confirm what is on the wheel caps. The color looks to be mostly gold with some dark (black?).

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sonny-Burnett

[jurassic narc]

I went back through all of the pictures of the Daytonas from scenes in the series.  Every episode where there was a picture of the Daytona where you could see the center caps, they were the eagles.  I do not believe Ferrari emblems were ever used.  I would guess that when the first 4 cars were built, the Zenith wheels were used with the eagle center caps.  The cars as originally built had no Ferrari identifications.  When Universal got the cars, they added the Ferrari badges, but I don't think they added the Ferrari center caps.

 

JN - do you believe that both of the cars had the gold eagles or would it be possible that one had the gold eagles and one had the black eagles.  There are some of the pictures from the series where the center caps look black rather than gold; however, none of the pictures are clear enough to really say for sure.  The pictures you included above - do you know which car they were from.  In the picture of the girl next to the car on the water front from Popular Science, the car has black eagles.  I don't know when that picture was taken.  (If I could figure out how to add pictures, I would add it to the post.)

I know in season one that Car 4 had gold background eagles.  That is the photo in front of the Senator.  The picture that I have is very clear.  And in Whatever Works in Season 2 Car 1 has gold background eagles.  Beyond that, it is really hard to say.  Due to wear and tear the spinners MIGHT have been changed out on one or both cars during that time frame.  That is certainly one of the details that, in the age of video cassettes, no one would have thought would have been noticed.

[Kavinsky]

well I figure that at night with the yellow it had a tendancy to look gold, and its possible that with time and the  difference between the original broadcasts and the dvd transfer might have dulled the colors and accidentally made it look gold

 

so its really hard to say outside of the straight photographic evidence

 

 

hell maybe we're having the same effect we did with the black paint here, where that the chrome is reflecting the yellow amber and thus making it look gold in certain shots

 

 

also I seem to be having trouble uploading the photos I want to right now, and they're JPG as well.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Kavinsky